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The Mystery of Capital
from the richest-man-in-babylon dept.
Hernado de Soto addresses the latter questions while making the case for his central thesis: that Western property law and administrative infrastructure is the reason for the ascendency of the Western economy.
The book is framed as an investigation of the 'Five Mysteries of Capital' during which the author enthusiastically demonstrates the shortcomings of common knowledge on the subjects of poverty, money, law, and history.
De Soto's mysteries are, in short:
- The Mystery of Missing Information. How much poverty, and conversely, how much property is there in poor countries, and how do we measure it? Huge numbers of people live and work off the books: they have no clear title to their land and possessions, they pay no taxes, they have no credit. We're not talking about subsistence farming here, but about buses and taxis, repair shops, and light industry. This 'Shadow Economy' is explored, and the 'Dark Capital' bound to undocumented resources is examined.
- The Mystery of Capital. What is Capital, where does it come from? De Soto views capital as not just a proxy for physical assets, but as a side effect of of property laws and infrastructure. His explanation of capital amplification derived from the standardization, globality, and liquidity that is given to property by standard protocols and infrastructure echoes common reflections on the internet phenomenon.
- The Mystery of Political Awareness. Why have so many governments failed so badly at economic reform? Simply because they do
not realize they are in the midst of their own Industrial Revolution, 200 years late. De Soto argues that the true extent of
the shadow economy was unknown until recently, and methods of dealing with it are in process. It is refreshing to read something
on this subject that acknowledges the hard work and sincerity of many of these governments, rather than rehashing accusations of
incompetence and corruption.
4. The Missing Lessons of U.S. History. How did the U.S develop an infrastructure that nurtures successful Capitalism? This section is an entertaining overview of the evolution of U.S. property law (believe it or not). What I found interesting was the way that 'law' would spontaneously arise in circumstances where the existing system was inadequate or non-existent. Also of interest were the examples of legislation chasing and converging (roughly) with reality over a century long period.
5. The Mystery of Legal Failure. What legislation is required to = enfranchise the people of the Third World? Again, the author makes an argument for law tracking reality. In the Roman legal tradition, laws are not created, they are 'discovered'; the best laws are those that fit existing practice. Well intentioned land reform measures fail because they do not reflect the actual situation. People do not want to be uprooted, they want title to what they believe is theirs.
De Soto tells a story about walking through rice paddies in Indonesia - = there were no survey markers or fences, but he knew whenever he crossed a property line - a different dog barked at him. He tells a group of ministers working on land reform to start at the bottom; listen to the dogs. and work up from there. His message is simple -- discover the law, then write it.
In each of these sections the author firms up his arguments with a = unique perspective based on solid research as much as theory. The final section of the book gives sober and well thought out step-by-step directions to lift people out of poverty and invisibility, again based on experience in field programs, rather than ideology.
This book is infused with a sort of passion that gives the arguments and figures an unexpected fascination. It is neither an anti-globaliztion rail nor a 'greed is good' apologia, but a well thought out investigation into a subject the author cares deeply about. For myself, I care little for economics, but I am familiar with engineering. De Soto approaches his topic like an engineer; he is interested not in promoting a theory, but in solving a problem.
I would recommend this book to two audiences: anyone interested in world poverty or economics, or those interested in the interaction and evolution of laws (ill-informed or not) and the Web. I would also recommend that we start barking.
You may find out more about the author at www.ild.org.pe.
You can purchase The Mystery of Capitalism from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews. To see your own review here, carefully read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Capitalism is necessary, but not sufficient (Score:5)
survival of the fittest (Score:3)
or most logical system, but the most successfully
expansive. It grows beyond everyhting else.
Hernando De Soto (Score:3)
This is clearly wrong (Score:2)
Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
Lets examine some facts.
1) America has the largest tax receipts of any country in the world. Hardly a Capitalist utopia.
2) America spends more on its miltary than any other country in the world. What exactly does this contribute to free trade ?
3) American corporations are amongst some of the most monopalistic [microsoft.com] in the world. Is this the free market ?
4) When forced to compete on a level playing field, US corporations fail dismally. E.g. the auto industry. You will not see ANYONE driving an Amercian car in Europe. Like most Amreicans, we would prefer a quality vehicle from BMW, Mercedez-Benz, Volkswagen, Seat, Skoda, Porshe, or even a Japanese made vehichle rather than the American low quality product.
5) Exploitation of resources and inefficiency. America leads the world in the destruction of the natural environment. Like the farme who eats his seed corn, they will surely reap their rewards.
Anyway In conclusion. There is little that the rest of the world can learn from America. Europe rejected Fascism in the 40's, America seems hell-bent on re-learning the same lesson Europe learned so long ago. It pains me to see it as I feel a moral reponsibility (since around 70% of Amercians come from my homeland).
Perhaps Americans who reject the direction their society has taken should return to the Motherland England, to like a more socially acceptable lifestyle.
We will put the kettle on for you and make a nice cup of tea :-)
Re:Capital is imaginary. (Score:2)
Capitalism hasn't failed everywhere else... (Score:2)
Many people in third world countries want capitalism to bring immediate benefits to their standards of living. You can't go from agricultural to post-industrial society in ten years, folks. People need to give this process time.
--
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
amazon reviews (Score:3)
War... (Score:2)
War was beginning.
CmdrTaco: What happen ?
CowboyNeal: Somebody set up us the Troll
CowboyNeal: We get signal
Captain: What !
CowboyNeal: Main screen turn on
Captain: It's You !!
Katz: How are you gentlemen !!
Katz: All your Hemo are belong to us
Katz: You are on the way to destruction
CmdrTaco: What you say !!
Katz: You have no chance to survive make your time
Katz: HA HA HA HA
CmdrTaco: -1 every 'troll'
CmdrTaco: You know what you doing
CmdrTaco: -1 'TROLL'
CmdrTaco: For great justice
No mystery (Score:2)
Capitalism is unsustainable, and the incredible growth of homo sapiens have enjoyed over the last 200 years (From 1 billion world population in 1800 to 6 billion today) is due to "spending" a bank account that was accumulated over billions of years: fossil fuels (source Thom Hartmann: The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight [mythical.net]). We have reached the maximum rate of extraction, and this rate will begin to decline, while demand and human population continues to grow *expontentially* (source: Jay Hanson [dieoff.com])
If by "capital" you mean money, then follow some of these links to The Creature From Jekyll Island [google.com] By G. Edward Griffin: Money is not wealth, it is debt, perpetual debt, which can never be repaid (because the interest/usary is not created whithin the system), and thus always leads to bankruptcy, forclosure, "reposessions", sherrif's sale, and military actions, which the author calls modern Alchemy, since this is how the lead bullets of war are converted into gold.
Capitalism supports slavery. Capitalism encourages unsustainable population growth, depletion of natural resources, and the creation of waste products. "Property Rights" are paradoxical, since the enjoyment of this right must deny this very same "right" to another.
Isn't it time we figure out a different economic system that is sustainable, and less violent?
Ob Bill Hicks Quote on Economy:
pound sterling - silver (Score:2)
To explain, in the UK one Pound Sterling used to be one pound of gold by weight.
pound sterling [britannica.com] on brittanica.com
sterling [dictionary.com] on dictionary.com
Actually, a Pound Sterling was more typically a pound of silver, not gold, in value. Hence the term 'sterling silver.' The term 'sterling' refers to purity of gold or silver, but the Pound was of silver specifically.
Re:Capitalism is necessary, but not sufficient (Score:2)
- - - - -
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:5)
What a steaming, stinking, unsightly pile of inaccurate information.
America has the largest tax receipts of any country in the world.
That receipts are irrelevent. America has only moderate tax rates (although still too high). They're not even close to the highest in the world.
America spends more on its miltary than any other country in the world. What exactly does this contribute to free trade ?
You're joking, right? How about, for one, the free-flow of oil at market prices? Or do you forget that Saddam dude who tried to take over a large majority of the world's oil supply? If the US hadn't stepped up, you would have a king of the "United Kingdom of the Middle East" by now. Stable economies require a stable world. A strong military is critical to stable economies.
When forced to compete on a level playing field, US corporations fail dismally. E.g. the auto industry.
The car companies don't care about exporting their cars. I was reading an article a few years ago about how the American car companies only recently produced a car that could be changed to have the steering wheel on the right side. The problem is that Americans like big cars, and the rest of the world doesn't. So it's not all that profitable for American car companies to produce tiny euroboxes that all have to be exported, since there is no market here.
In any case, I believe the Ford Fiesta (?) is one of the best, if not the best, selling cars in Europe, so they can do it if they care.
But going beyond cars, the US dominates in almost every industry that matters, particularly the leading edge ones like software.
America leads the world in the destruction of the natural environment.
Cite some proof. American is one of the cleanest countries in the world. In fact, I remember a british engineer who I met about 10 year ago who came over for some temporary work. I asked him what struck him the most about the US, and remarked he couldn't believe how clean everything was. Just an anecdote, but telling.
If you want to see pollution, take a look around Europe some time.
--
Theories of development (Score:5)
The final section = of the book gives sober and well thought out step-by-step directions to lift = people out of poverty and invisibility, again based on experience in field = programs, rather than ideology.
There are two main theories on how the developing world should move into the developed world. Currently, only 30 countries are considered "devloped," while the rest are divided among groups such as "developing," "not developing," and "less-developed."
MT prescribed that economic development requires the rejection of traditional behavior and orginizations, and acceptances of new behavior and orginizations that futher economic growth. The culture of a nation must change to the accepted western ideas of devlopment. A partial list of the requirements that Modernization theorists agree on include:
In a nutshell, a acceptance of western culture and western sytle economic and policital thought lays the foundation of economic development.
DT is a ideology that critisizes the MT approach. Two main tennents of Dependency theory: The development of third-world nations did not resemble the development of the west. The west's development for instance did not have external influences. The second tennent is that developed countries exploited the third-world in their own economic rise. Therefore any economic structure that may exist in a developing country is set up to enrich the industialized nations, not develop the third-world nation.
Dependency theorists see the western exploitation of third-world nations as the primary roadblock to economic sucess. By removing the foundations rooted in imperialism, third-world nations and develop the economic structure that moves them forward.
I have not placed any value judgements on these two theories. All I can say is that I agree with the statement that there are no easy answers to how to develop the third-world.
Capitalism and culture (Score:4)
This shows up in many controversial areas.
For example, take the immigration from poor areas of the world to the richer areas of the world. The question here is how the culture of these immigrants is different from the country they are going to, and how important is this differance.
For example, if you have a town or village where the immigrants predominate, and have become a political force, what does the community look like? Does it look like and reflect the country that they are in, or where they came from? Typically, it looks like where they came from.
The problem is when this results in the same conditions that they left in the first place. Actually, it never gets that far, because of local ordinances, etc. but it does produce dramatic culture clashes. Southern California is an example of this. Xenophobia and prejudice are easy to develop under these conditions because in a democratic society, those moving in want things their way, similiar to what they are comfortable with, the way they knew it in their former homelands.
A less touchy example is when rich successful people buy a house in the country, after having lived in the cities all their lives. They get all freaked out by things like the smells of the local farms, and complain to the local town council, or whatever.
This becomes important when you are talking about things like how people deal with the basics of their lives, the economics, and how they create their own community.
Part of the problem is that many lack the lifetime of education in the culture of the country the aspire to, thinking that they must hold on to what they know already out of pride. They think in terms of either/or, or at least some political leaders do. The better would be knowing both.
This gets flipped on its head when we take this into another context completely. For example, the arena of the software market, open source vs proprietary software, etc.
As some may say, this is another can of worms entirely.
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
In UN's Human development index (here) [undp.org] the US is #3 after Canada and Norway. But when you compare gender equality and conditions for the poorest part of the population the US drops down to #18th place, among the last of the industrialized world. All of scandinavia for example is a much more wellrounded society to live in - one that doesnt focus exclusivly on profit at any price.
-henrik
Re:Capital is imaginary. (Score:2)
Why not everywhere, then? (Score:2)
-russ
Money will always exist. (Score:2)
Read Von Mises' _Human Action_
-russ
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:3)
It also has the largest economy in the world. It's percentage of GNP collected as taxes is much lower then most other industrialezed countrys. (16% of 8 trillion is a lot more (dollar for dollar) then even 50% of 2 trillion)
2) America spends more on its miltary than any other country in the world. What exactly does this contribute to free trade ?
While I would be first to agree that the lobbying power of the military industrilal complex first warned about by eisenhower is too great. The military is frequently used to directly intervene when americas intrests or americas allies (who are usually are trading partners) are threatened.
3) American corporations are amongst some of the most monopalistic in the world. Is this the free market ?
America is the one maybe the only nation that actually says a corporation must justify its monopoly is in the public interest (and meet conditions about not expanding, you know that lawsuit against microsoft?) in other nations paticullary in canada and europe, state enterprises are allowed to be as inefficient and damaging to consumers and the economy as a whole. On this point a little more, monopolies can't flurish in a economy without goverment protection even the much maligned standard oil was disintergrating at the time the goverment decided to enact anti-monopoly regulation (of course you can trace the standard oil monopoly to the monopoly granted to the rail roads by various goverments).
4) When forced to compete on a level playing field, US corporations fail dismally. E.g. the auto industry. You will not see ANYONE driving an
Amercian car in Europe. Like most Amreicans, we would prefer a quality vehicle from BMW, Mercedez-Benz, Volkswagen, Seat, Skoda,Porshe, or even a Japanese made vehichle rather than the American low quality product.
Well, considering Diamler-Chrysler are merged, Diamler-Chrysler owns Mitsubishi, other of the big three own various japanese car companies (lexus and nissan), ford is a huge player in europe as well. Indeed american companies don't market american cars in europe because of narrow minded biggoted opinions such as this, american cars are probably not built aswell but they are built so that as many people as possible can afford them, you also ignore brands like cadillac.
Americas strong belief in capatilism and education allwos american companies to thourly trump any competitor we are far more productive that any nation in europe, machine tools, electronics, computers (funny because they basically originated in britain), optics, fibre optics, medical science, biotechnology, and on and on and on.
5) Exploitation of resources and inefficiency. America leads the world in the destruction of the natural environment. Like the farme who eats his
seed corn, they will surely reap their rewards.
Actually there are many countries with far worse enviromental records then the U.S. even in "enlightened" countries such in europe or canada, canadians by the way waste far more watter then americans per captia, and there corporations are responsible for some verry disgraceful enviromental and human rigts abuses in africa and elsewhere. Infact many of the "enlightened" nations practice NIBYISM (not in my backyard) but there (even state owned) business are perfectly willing to fund or even praticipate in the pilliging of other nations.
>Anyway In conclusion. There is little that the >rest of the world can learn from America. Europe >rejected Fascism in the 40's, America seems
>hell-bent on re-learning the same lesson Europe >learned so long ago. It pains me to see it as I >feel a moral reponsibility (since around 70% of >Amercians come from my homeland).
Europe rejected fascism ? maybe britain did but most of europe was pefrectly happy to run away from the defence of freedom. Not to mention the fact that after we one the war (not of course dismissing the importance of britain, but you needed not just are milltary might but our industrial might to defend yourselves, you know the thing your maligning.) Indeed no good deed goes unpunished we also spent 50 billion dollars rebuilding western europe, yet all we have ever got is grief.
>Perhaps Americans who reject the direction their >society has taken should return to the Motherland >England, to like a more socially acceptable >lifestyle.
Funny, really, what europeans don't really seem to realize that wealth == freedom, you complain about our excess but the excess that allows the even a realitvely poor person to buy a car and have gas to put in it, why is this important well it means that with this car if there are no jobs where the person currently resides can travel somewhere else . Same goes for many other things, computers and internet access for instance.
Re:No mystery (Score:2)
By "capital" he doesn't mean money. Capital is not money. Capital is saved wealth. Money is just a thing which is easily tradable. Anything could function (better or worse) as a money. Money, being a thing, is not "debt". Where did you get that crazy idea from? Oh, I see, Griffin. Well, why did you accept that crazy idea into your brain?
Essentially, you are against saving. You would rather that people live like the animals of the woods, eating when food is available, and starving when it is not. YOU are welcome to live like that. Nobody is stopping you. Most people would prefer not to live that way, though. That's why socialists have to use force to get people to live in a socialist society. Note: Sweden (the canonical "socialist" society) is not socialist at all. It is a market capitalist society with high government expenditures. A socialist society is marked by a lack of a market (go read your socialist literature if you think I'm nuts). The extent to which socialists support the market, is the extent to which capitalists have persuaded socialists that socialism does not work.
-russ
Re:Theories of development (Score:2)
-russ
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
And on a second note.. The US was the country that shot down an international enviromental treaty recently. hell, most USians dont even belive that global warming exists even when most of the world scientists tell them. The US polludes more per capita than any other country. period. And worse than that, it does every little about it. I wouldnt care if you wanted to wreck your own place, except i live on the same planet too. Yes, i've lived in both US and Europe. I found the US *much* *much* worse enviromentally.
The US is a single-issue country (profit über alles) just like most developing contries. Only in long time, stable societies to you see ethical values being a major part of the debate. I'd say europe in general is 50-100 years ahead of the US in the ethical evolution of mankind. Most of europe recognizes that the enviroment, equality and social security is what a society needs to focus on for the next century. Building as many (large) cars as possible no matter what the cost isnt reasonable.
And profit isnt the only thing that matters.
-henrik
Re:No mystery (Score:2)
We have reached the maximum rate of extraction, and this rate will begin to decline, while demand and human population continues to grow *expontentially*
We have reached the maximum rate of extraction at current pricing levels. Anyone in the oil industry will tell you there is a huge amount of oil offshore in the Gulf of Mexico; the reason we aren't extracting it is that it is cheaper to import from the Middle East than to build drilling platforms. But as the technology to do deep-water extraction improves and the value of the fuel increases, these sources will be tapped. And they are very extensive -- sufficient, by most estimates I've heard, to power our civilization at its current level for centuries.
And while we do need to achieve negative population growth, experience shows that the best way to do that is to increase individual wealth. The nations with the lowest population growth are all the ones with the highest standards of living.
And for all its flaws (and it has many), capitalism has proven to be one effective tool for increasing productivity and standards of living. It's not the only thing you need, which is one point the reviewed book is making; but it is one thing that can work in appropriate circumstances.
Unfortunately, the current trend even in wealthy countries is for capital to accumulate around the wealthiest at the expense of the poor, which is a sure recipe for reversing the progress we have made toward long-term stability.
Re:No mystery (Score:3)
Remains to be seen.
the incredible growth of homo sapiens have enjoyed over the last 200 years
... has nothing to do with capitalism. In fact the capilistic countries have the lowest population growth rates.
human population continues to grow *expontentially*
Bzzzt. Population growth rates are declining. In fact some western countries have birth rates lower than the replacement rate, and are only maintaining their population through immigration.
If by "capital" you mean money,
No, we don't mean money. Any jackass with a printing press can make money. Money existed long before capitalism.
Isn't it time we figure out a different economic system that is sustainable, and less violent?
Sounds good. Do you have any ideas? We've already tried a variety of methods including feudalism, tribalism, and communism.
Capitalism supports slavery.
What capitalistic countries currently use slavery?
"Property Rights" are paradoxical, since the enjoyment of this right must deny this very same "right" to another.
True enough, except that the concept of 'Rights' itself implies that you have taken away something from another individual. For example, my right to life means that you do not have the right to kill me. Are you really proposing that indivduals should have no rights?
Come back when you have a premise that is not filled with logical fallicies and factual error.
MOVE 'ZIG'.
Oversimplification .... (Score:4)
- alienation - or the separation (and resulting specialisation) of powers. The modern corporation essentially has 3 functional components - owners (shareholders), governance (directors) and operators (managers). Through legal mechanisms, the transfer of powers and associated trust allows more complex structures to be established. Due to historical baggage of feudal governance structures and patron-style relationships, the East has yet to develop a culture which separates the State from the individual biases. Even if you look at places like Singapore, it is essentially a city state driven by a family core (think Italty) and as a result some financiers are rather disparanging of the capital utilisation rate (compare growth in TFP against other states after discounting human and capital mobility). The alienation eliminates (at at least checks to a large extent) influences such as religion, tribalism, etc from economic factors. The downside is that the government is less powerful than many people think.
- agency costs - consequent to this is how do you ensure that the remote agents (managers/financial brokers) work for your aims (wealth creation) rather than pissing off to South America with your loaned capital. Again the rise of a professional management class as distrinct from a family owned firm with a tendency to treat OPM (other people's money) as personal disposable income allows larger scaling of enterprises. This has been aided by the significant reduction in the cost of internal communications due to technology and now you have firms which number employees in the hundreds of htousands (as compared with 100-1000's early last century). Scale matters and family firms don't have guarentee of talent.
- universal education and democratisation of capital - one of the biggest hinderances towards an efficient market is information asymmetry. What you don't know *WILL* hurt you when it comes to insider information, scams, and other forms of white collar crime. By giving the middle class the chance to pool funds into mutual investments, and the transparency to assess companies in their own right, a more accurate picture of the economy can be reflected in the prices that people are willing to lend at. If you take a look at the share-market in say China/HK, if you are not a professional market specialist, you might as well be gambling at your local casino as minority shareholders get screwed big-time.
- credit creation - the unbundling of the currency from any tangible asset such as the gold standard. This is a rather contentious fiscal "innovation" as it creates inflation (e.g. 70's) but the upside is that greater individual risks can be undertaken (with resulting higher returns). There are some serious side effects (financial crisis/flutuating financial securities) but the industry has developed more advanced liquidation techniques to reallocate capital as a result. As a result, the US financial markets have been more efficient at directing capital to product uses (c.f Japan industry boondoggles) despite its current lower (negative?) savings rate.
I'm sure any professional accountants and economists will harp on about a number of other factors such as anti-trust law (one advantage over Europe), intangible property rights (branding, etc) or derivatives to transfer/concentrate risks but IMHO the above are the main structural elements. This is not to say that all is milk and honey, governments, corporations and individuals have been known to screw up but at least the system has a chance to self-correct. However, it should be noted that people in other countries are not stupid and they can read the books on financial as well as any other capitalist. It also discounts certain elements such as social capital whcih is prized much more highly in the East due to higher population concentrations. The other potential problem I see is institutional arrogance
LL
Nonsense. (Score:2)
Debt is an obligation on the part of one person to pay something (usually money, but it can also be labor or some commodity) to some other person.
-jcr
Money is not Capital (Score:2)
Money is a reliable store of value that is accepted in exchange for other good.
Both capital and money are social realities: there's nothing "imaginery" about it. If I try to pay for dinner using a turnip, patent water or enclose the center of London to graze my cows I'll soon discover that imagination is not enough.
The Cult of Capital... (Score:2)
When do you own the land you are living off ? (Score:2)
Land is considered as being owned, as soon as a man is able to own a woman, who can cultivate a piece of land and provide food for survival for the man and her children.
The man, being asked if he owns land, would say yes, as long as he owns the labor provided by the woman.
The woman would say she doesn't own land, but she is paid for her labor in being allowed to eat and survive on the fruits of her labor. If she is able to produce more food than the family can eat and is able to sell or trade food for other goods then the struggle who owns the traded goods (or the money she got from the sale) starts.
It seems mostly dependent on how much labor the man has put in to cultivate the land himself. If he did, he will claim ownership of the profit made by the woman's labor, if he didn't and the woman was able to make a profit out of her labor, she considers the profit hers, but not the land itself.
If the woman doesn't work the land anymore, the land isn't considered worth anything and no ownership of the land itself is claimed by the man, but certainly the worth of the potential labor inherent in the woman, is still being claimed to be owned by the man.
In this context it makes sense that the capital of the man is measured in how many women he owns.
The moment an international company comes to the village and discovers something precious to the industrial world in the soil (gas, oil, uranium) and wants to exploit the land, the land will be claimed by the native population as being owned by them. The native population will request recording of the land's ownership, without any consideration of the ownership of women's labor. Because it immediately becomes clear that the profit out of the company's labor is higher than anything the women's labor could generate.
The ownership of the land therefore seems to be defined by who owns the labor put into the land to generate a profit out of it. As soon as the profit is more than just the food to sustain survival of the native population recording ownership takes place.
When Lincoln requested in the Homestead Act that anyone who claimed ownership of the granted acres of land must prove within five years that he "worked" the land and generates value to that land, this seems to reflect that the real capital is reflected in the labor you put in to the land to generate something of value which can be traded and not in the land per se. The native Indians never claimed to own land ( I think), but they fought wars for their tribes territories. In the terms of de Soto, they barked quite a bit.
This would basically mean you always claim ownership to what you produce with your labor. And any person will always claim that much land as his own land, as he needs to grow food to survive. We always start barking if someone tries to take that away from us and we should.
Wuff, wuff, I am off to the bookstore. Thanks for pointing this book out to us.
Re:No mystery (Score:2)
Capitalism in its Western incarnation is a straw-man. You cannot spend your capital (oil, ore or mineral) and call it 'income'. This is like my basing my future on the sale of my home - it works for a few months (where im spending the cash that i'd saved into my home) but quickly becomes a problem when I have no other home to sell...
On a similar note - the Capitalist measure of the economy is not a measure of 'success'. The GDP is another display of 'wrong' thinking inherent in the capitalist system. When a person gets cancer - the GDP goes up. When we are in a car crash - the GDP goes up. What about our real goals: happiness, peace, love, understanding, joy and their ilk? I propose we organize a system that only serves those goals.
See a link at Adbuster [adbusters.org] that deals with some of these ideas - much better than I can explain them
Simply: Join the effort to End Plutocracy.
E-gold is a great idea, but... (Score:2)
Imagine for a moment, that South Africa issued a digital Krugerrand.
The DKR would be a nice, long number, and if you present it at any branch of any South African bank worldwide, and you're the first person to present that number, they hand you the coin. Various cryptographic protocols can ensure that you're very unlikely to simply guess a valid number.
South Africa would make a fortune on the seniorage, and all of their gold buyers then have a currency available which is not inflatable. Once people get used to the digital gold coin, then we can start seeing digital currencies backed by any other kind of commodity or service (say, Kilowatt hours, or BTU's of home-heating from somebody's natural gas pipeline.)
Ultimately, it will benefit the whole world to have currencies that simply aren't subject to manipulation for political ends, that rise and fall against each other in response to actual market conditions.
-jcr
Re:Capitalism is necessary, but not sufficient (Score:2)
There is a common belief that capitalism and democracy go hand-in-hand, but there is at least one rather obvious exception: Singapore. There's a country that is as capitalistic as possible, with McDonalds and Gap stores on every block, and yet has a rather oppressive government.
Re:This is clearly wrong (Score:2)
I admit that I don't know enough about these Japan and South Korea to speak at length on their economies, but both are well known for "crony capitalism" where connections and political clout are far more important to the success of a business than the quality of its product or efficiency of production. One might argue that the US is quickly moving towards such a state, but that's another issue.
Del
Cultural Relativism bs (Score:2)
Now this isn't to say that race X is superior to race Y (as many drones are quick to play the race card). But a society that has perfectionist attitudes doubled with a "keeping up with the Jones'" outlook have and do progress faster.
Adaptation is necessary for progress. The Europeans took a lot of the practices from the Muslim world under Sulliman(sp?). And before that, the Muslims copied the Indians who were benefitting from the Oriental societies who were the mightiest of the time. Think where we would be if Pope Sylvester the II hadn't been educated by the Muslims; he's the one who introduced arabic numerals to the west. The western world has only been dominant now for at most 500 years (and some would say for less).
Another instance is with the US and Japan. Japan was still a feudal society until the end of the 19th century. The Americans came into the Japanese harbor and let off some cannons. The Japanese were impressed. They realised their ways were inferior to the industrialized western ways. They sent their scholars to the US and Europe to learn all that was possible. And after 40 years they were as advanced as any western society.
Re:pound sterling - silver (Score:2)
I'm a Brit (living in the States now), and I'd never heard of the sterling coins, or the derivation of "pound sterling"!
It's interesting that the 240 sterlings created from a pound of silver in 775 - presumably a somewhat arbitrary number dictated by the size of the coin, survived for over 1000 years! More the shame that decimilization ended that piece of history... reading that actually makes me care less now whether the UK adopts the Euro, since the decimilized "pound" is only part of history in terms of name alone.
BTW, when did the pound cease to be silver backed? I seem to remember that the old pound notes carried the "I promise to pay the bearer, upon demand, the sum of one pound" verbiage right up until the end.
Re:Why not everywhere, then? (Score:2)
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
Utter bullshite. Ive never had a problem with healthcare here in Canada. If Im sick I get care. Simple. This holds true for 'serious' illness as well (ive had immediate family members with exceptional care during their successfull battles w/ cancer).
a by-product of the large concentrations of people
Bullshite again - The US has high crime beause of its value system. People are more likely to feel justified in their violent acts because it serves their selfish needs (whatever they are) - and that is the #1 value in America: You are the only important thing to yourself - Serve yourself - Consume. America does not have a 'high concentration' of people [reliefweb.int] - look at the other end of the population density scale (Asian countries) and you'll see an inverse violent crime rate to that of the USA.
Get your shite straight.
Speculative Capital (Score:2)
Briefly, the author explains the evolution of different forms of Capital: merchant, industrial and, finally, speculative. It is the "Speculative Capital" which scouts the planet for instanteneous profits and has the potential to destroy the whole system as it puts on larger and larger bets.
Ever increasing volatility of Nasdaq, well-publicized devaluation of British pound commonly attributed to George Soros, meltdown in Southeast Asia, and, most recently, Turkish devaluation are the symptoms of Speculative Capital.
Check out Saber's website [saberpartnership.com] for better explanation of the subject.
money is an agreement (Score:2)
The trick seems to be to limit "money"'s capacity as a *store of value* and so expand it's use as a *medium of exchange.*
Silvio Gissel's "demurrage [slashdot.org] currency" model does this. Demurrage charged currency restricts a user's freedom to hoard short-term gains, and coerces users to invest in more *sustainable* productive actions in the long run. (Demurrage currency devalues with time, so it spreads around faster, increasing in velocity, and hence, ironically, value.
barataria.org [barataria.org] used to have good info on the famous Worgl experiment, whose success caused the Austrian Central Bank to stomp it out. "The traders took no risk in accepting Wörgl scrip as it was completely backed by the national currency loan which the mayor had obtained from the savings bank and left on deposit there. This enabled anyone holding scrip to swap it at any time for 98% of its face value in national currency. Very few people appear to have made the exchange because at 2% it cost more to do so than to pay the 1% monthly re-validation fee, but any local money which was returned to the bank or paid to the council in taxation was immediately re-launched into circulation in the town."
IHMO, "money" is an elemental "code" that instructs most of our trades.. I look forward to new definitions and arrangements of it.. Redefined, it can promote cooperation over competition, and suit non-zero-sum increasing returns in network effects (ie free ideas grow more valuable as more people use them)
"Imagine how creative, how productive, how ecologically benign our businesses could be if we ran them according to the design principles of the rainforest. With thin soil, few nutrients, and almost no resources, rainforests could never qualify for a loan. Yet rainforests are more productive than any business in the world, home to millions of species of plants and animals, so perfectly mixed that they sustain one another and evolve into ever more complex forms." - Taichi Kiuchi [bionomics.org]
Money will never go away (Score:2)
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:2)
Interesting insight - I think you may be right.
Re:No mystery (Score:2)
Remains to be seen.
I would assert that the end of Capitalism is Plutocracy, Monopoly and Fewer Rights for Citizens. These being natural responses to an uncontrolled market economy where the Entrenched Interests change the social landscape to assure their survival (and greater 'success').
America is manifesting these problems now. Massive Transnationals rule the government, Business Issues are the only discussions amoung your 'leaders', the RIAA/MPAA buy laws like the DMCA without anyone (population at large) having any idea how/why, Massive Transnationals set terms to the markets because of collusive business practices.
We've already tried...communism.
Communism has been attacked my McCarthy-inspired Americans. Make no mistake - the Powers That Be(TM) in America used every resource they had to destroy the former Soviet bloc - it did not 'fail' because of Communism, it didnt succeed because of the Actions/motives of Capitalist Yankees.
human population continues to grow *expontentially* Bzzzt. Population growth rates are declining. In fact some western countries have birth rates lower than the replacement rate, and are only maintaining their population through immigration
Western countries are not the only countries on the planet - Population is growing exponentially - and what the Sheeple in those countries are aspiring to is the same level of loathsome behaviour as 95% of American Sheeple. This is a problem. What will we do when everyone in the world tries to 'live' (consume) like Americans?
"Property Rights" are paradoxical, since the enjoyment of this right must deny this very same "right" to another.
True enough, except that the concept of 'Rights' itself implies that you have taken away something from another individual. For example, my right to life means that you do not have the right to kill me. Are you really proposing that indivduals should have no rights?
You might want to take a moment from defending your dogma to actually read his post.
non sequitur:
An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.
Come back when you have a premise that is not filled with logical fallicies and factual error.
Re:Capital is imaginary. (Score:2)
Re:amazon reviews (Score:2)
I've always thought it pretty obvious that the US's prosperity comes from two things:
1) Wealth generation by a continual influs of highly motivated immigrants
2) Wealth spreading by a society that prefers to borrow and spend rather than save
It's funny how so many people think the national debt is a bad thing, when withing reason (e.g. the runup during Reagan's years rather than that of Bush Sr.), it's part of the system that has been so successful.
Re:Rather a USA-Centric world view, no ? (Score:3)
You're joking, right? How about, for one, the free-flow of oil at market prices? Or do you forget that Saddam dude who tried to take over a large majority of the world's oil supply? If the US hadn't stepped up, you would have a king of the "United Kingdom of the Middle East" by now. Stable economies require a stable world. A strong military is critical to stable economies.
The fact that you feel the 'free flow of oil' or 'stable economies' are reasons to FUKCING KILL PEOPLE is exactly why you are disqualified from this conversation. Twit.
The problem is that Americans like big cars, and the rest of the world doesn't
The problem is that ONLY Americans would kill people so they can drive big cars that needlessly burn gas. The fact that you support a Plutocratic Government to use its Military to subsidize oil prices so you can drive a big car is amazing. When violence breaks out in other places; sane, stable and wise people are concerned for the citizens of the region, and are hopefull to participate in peace. Only Americans see Market opportunities and 'stable economies' as concern in these cases.
great rebuttal (Score:2)
Thomas Malthus made the exponential-population argument more than two centuries ago. Paul Ehrlich did it again in 1969, claiming in his best-seller The Population Bomb that "We have already lost the battle. No matter what crash programs are instigated at this time, they will not be enough to prevent a worldwide famine of catastrophic proportions in the next ten years. Billions of people will die." Whoops. (Here [redherring.com] is some information on the late Julian Simon, who repeatedly and famously debunked such bogosity.)
Capitalism encourages unsustainable population growth, depletion of natural resources, and the creation of waste products.
Aside from the fact that it's not clear that human population growth is indeed "unsustainable", you could replace "capitalism" with many words, including "life" itself, that would result in equally true statements. Rabbits, rats, and cockroaches, for example, do not practice capitalism (that I know of :-), yet they practice unsustainable population growth (to the extent permitted by the lack of predators), depletion of natural resources (food, oxygen, etc.), and the creation of waste products (turds, CO2, etc.). The same is true even of lowly bacteria, except that their "natural resources" and "waste products" are rather different than ours -- which merely serves demonstrates that one lifeform's "waste products" are another's "natural resources".
Incidentally, I could easily argue that lack of capitalism promotes slavery. The absence of property rights essentially means that others can usurp the fruits of your labors whether you like it or not. It's less direct than literally buying and selling human beings, of course, but it's not at all dissimilar in principle.
Protestant thought instrumental (Score:3)
His book The protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism [virginia.edu] traces the historical antecedents very clearly. Check out Chapter 2 [virginia.edu] (54k) in particular for an exposition of how maximising business profit became a devout obligation.
Ironically, now we anticipate the Flood (global warming) that is the direct consequence of this sequence of thoughts and behaviours.
Re:No mystery (Score:3)
There have been gloomy talk about running out of oil for a long time:
1885, U.S. Geological Survey: "Little or no chance for oil in California."
1891, U. S. Geological Survey: Same prophecy by USGS for Kansas and Texas as in 1885 for California.
1914, U. S. Bureau of Mines: Total future production limit of 5.7 billion barrels, perhaps 10 years supply.
1939, Department of the Interior: Reserves to last only 13 years.
1951, Department of the Oil and Gas Division: Reserves to last 13 years.
The truth is that as oil reserves are continuing to increase because new technology is applied to new areas.
We don't actually know 100% how oil was formed (no one has ever been able to produce the equivalent of crude oil, yet we can make man-made diamonds). One particular theory [cornell.edu] claims that the lower crust of the planet is bathed in hydrocarbons from the time of planet formation, and the oil we see is only the little bits that get caught in traps near surface. In that case we'd never run out of oil. Who knows?
Nobody knows. Nobody knows how much oil is left, until a well runs dry. You can guess about it, but you are often wrong, because we can't count the drops of oil in every crack and crevice thousands of feet below the ground/ocean. Then once it "runs dry," you begin pumping in water to displace more oil, and you don't know how much more will come out. Nor do we know how much natural gas might be present, nor oil in oil shales.
I suggest reading Julian Simon's When will we run out of oil? Never! [umd.edu].
Other interesting tidbits: The trends in energy costs and scarcity have been downward over the entire period for which we have data. These "high oil costs" Americans complain about today are, after adjusting for inflation, not much different than 20 years ago. Energy has become less and less important as measured by its share of GNP.
And let's say we do run out of oil. Well, we'll have to get by somehow, perhaps nuclear/fusion using batteries, hydrogen, or other chemical energy storage technique. Long before the oil really runs out, there will be an economic incentive to build these devices (well, there will be in capitalist countries anyway). Looking at the price of oil right now, I don't expect to see them much in the near future.
Capitalism encourages unsustainable population growth, depletion of natural resources, and the creation of waste products.
The first part of this is really wrong. Capitalism increases the supply and efficiency of use of mineral resources. It also increases the size of sustainable populations. You may also want to compare starvation rates of US versus Mao's farming policies that killed 30 million people [hvk.org] by starvation.
Capitalism does increase the creation of waste products, but as you mentioned, it does produce a market incentive to deal with them in a halfway reasonable way. The greatest environmental problems exist in situations where there is not ownership (waterways and multipoint atmospheric pollution).