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First-Person Account Of Today's Attacks
from the add-yours dept.
I was scheduled to testify today at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's "Patent Theatre" in Crystal City, Virginia, on the intellectual property aspects of the proposed Hague Convention on Jurisdiction. I had sweated for days over a prepared oral statement about the treaty's implications for student coders and journalists.
My friend Rob Carlson and I left Baltimore early (shortly after 7:00 a.m.) and deposited ourselves at an outlying Metro stop, intending to take the subway into Crystal City. We arrived without incident.
Upon disembarking at Crystal City, I gave the sounds of various sirens little heed -- even as the municipality's Battalion Chief (fire department) roared past, red and white lights flashing.
"There must be a fire nearby," Rob said, glancing upward as fluffy chunks of ash drifting down into the USPTO's courtyard like huge downy feathers.
The hearing room was uncharacteristically vacant. I sat down next to my former boss, Consumer Project on Technology director Jamie Love, and flipped open my laptop to read over my prepared oral testimony.
"Did you hear? A plane hit the World Trade Center in New York!" Jamie whispered excitedly, ensconced in a pile of laptop peripherals and scattered newspapers. I froze momentarily, floppy disk half inserted into my laptop. Looking up, I noticed most of the hearing's attendees appeared to be in shock. A few sat rigid in their seats, hands folded in their laps, staring ahead in numbed silence. Others milled about, busily discussing the foreign policy ramifications of the morning's events. No one seemed to be concentrating on the hearing.
Federal government officials present -- (I recognized members of the U.S. State Department, Copyright Office and PTO) reacted differently -- receiving the sporadic stream of dispatches and rumors from PTO staffers running in and out of the Theatre with detached contemplation. It appeared that the Feds had discarded their usual mantle of chatty, diplomatic ambiance, and had switched into Crisis Mode.
"If anyone really wants to testify now, they can. At this time, we are not evacuating the building," proclaimed a Patent Office functionary. No one took her up on her offer, and several folks murmured quietly about the inappropriateness of proceeding with the hearing given the context and magnitude of events.
More runners entered the Theater, bearing news of additional disasters -- some alleged, some actual. Rumors about the destruction of various Washington agencies and landmarks whipped throughout the conference room.
I closed my laptop, which had been teetering idle on my lap for several minutes. People started for the door, hesitating in case the unspoken consensus for scrapping the hearing was improbably reversed. Cell phones were whipped out of suit pockets and family members dialed to no effect.
"You can always submit written testimony." declared U.S. delegate to the Hague Conference and PTO attorney-advisor Jennifer Lucas as the long-planned hearing disintegrated.
I felt a mix of emotions: disappointed that I wouldn't have the chance to testify and lock horns with the MPAA and other industry lobbyists, and guilty for having such self-centered thoughts during this crisis.
Rob and I headed out toward the lobby. He decided that we should skip the elevator and go down a flight of stairs to the lobby.
The courtyard of the Patent Office facility (which had been nearly deserted when we arrived) was packed with a milling, chattering crowd. Security guards peered about pensively as if reassuring themselves that the building was indeed still standing. Soon after, a shout went up that the Patent Office was being evacuated.
The head of the U.S. Delegation to the Hague Conference (and State Department legal advisor) Jeff Kovar brushed past me with an associate in tow.
"We're walking to the State Department." Kovar grimly mentioned to no one in particular, and started the long hike back to his office.
Rob and I weaved our way through gridlocked traffic and headed toward the Crystal City Metro station. Several Federal Marshalls stood about -- one wearing a boxy bulletproof vest, another wearing a pink blouse with a lanyard ID. Military personnel huddled together on the sidewalk, segregated according to the hue of their uniforms. Fast moving, thin white clouds rushed overhead. I wasn't sure if they were really smoke pluming from the Pentagon.
We jumped into a Yellow Line train alongside a pair of blue-shirted Air Force officers. I watched as an orange ladybug crawled up the silver-stitched epaulet of the officer closest to me, and informed him of its presence. He stared at me for a silent moment before carefully removing the insect.
"That's the least of my problems," he said. "Thanks anyway."
Mirrror for movies and images. (Score:5, Informative)
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~bennetb/attackonamerica [uwyo.edu]
If you have any articles, movies, or photos. Email them to me @ bennetb@uwyo.edu.NO.SPAM
To the Firefighters and Police of NYC (Score:4, Insightful)
The Day Innocence Died (Score:5, Interesting)
Like most people, I wake up each morning thinking the day will be like any other day. I shower, listen to the radio, have breakfast, and walk the dog. I say "goodbye" or "see you later" to my dad, I set out on my day. I make a mental note of the things I wish to accomplish before the end of the day and tentative plans for the rest of the week. I never stop and think, "what if I don't make it home today?". "What if I never see my family again.
But today, for thousands of people, their worst nightmares were realized.
As I walked to work, I saw a crowd of people standing around a car, listening to the radio. I heard " a plane crashed into the World Trade Center". Like most, I thought, "what a horrible accident". I figured a plane had engine failure, got off course and crashed. By the time I reached my office, about five minutes later, I heard that another plane crashed into the second building. By then, we all knew, it was no accident.
I immediately turned on my radio and noticed that there was no one in my office area. I walked to the lounge and discovered my co-workers huddled around a television. It was then that I saw the awful crashes and explosions. I saw the airplane, deliberately fly into the second building of the World Trade Center. And then, the explosion. It was a sight I will never forget.
I went to the phone to contact friends and family members who work in the area. After a few hours, I reached my aunt, who actually watched from her job as the plane crashed into the building and saw the people falling and jumping out of the window. I then returned to the television to discover that another airplane had crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington DC. The shock on everyone's face was immeasurable. We all started to wonder
"who's next"? Where? When? Then, we heard that the Capitol had also been hit and one of the Twin towers collapsed. I wondered what it would be like to visit that area in the future and see just one building there. Of course, they would rebuild, but it would never be the same. And then, we heard. Another explosion caused the second Tower to collapse. The building wouldn't be lonely anymore. It had joined its twin. Gone.....Forever. And
then, the tears rolled down, not just for the people who died but for the institution itself. I love New York. I love its history and atmosphere. I was just at Brooklyn Bridge a few weeks ago taking pictures. That beautiful New York Skyline that symbolizes so much will never be the same. My home. My life. It all seems different. I keep thinking of all of the people. All of the bodies, lying in the debris. All of those people who started
their day not knowing they wouldn't return home. All of their loved ones waiting, hoping, praying for a telephone call telling them that everything is ok. Waiting for a phone call that will never come. Today I cry. Not because I lost a friend or family member in this tragedy. But because like so many. I lost a part of myself. I've read about dozens of horrible, tragic incidents in American and Global history. I've seen photographs and
depictions of wars, conflicts and crimes against humanity. But I don't think anything will ever remain in my mind as vividly as this tragedy. As I sit writing this, there is a cool breeze blowing through my window. But unlike your average summer day, it is filled with smoke.
As I walked home with dozens of people, some crying, some shaken, some covered in soot, I felt an overwhelming need to be home with my family. Even those I knew were safe at home and no where near the disaster area. I called my father, sister, aunt, grandmother and cousins, and told them I loved them. I embraced co-workers and offered sympathy for those who lost loved-ones. I attempted to donate blood, but they were so overcrowded they turned
people away. And today, for the first time in ages, of my own freewill, I went into church, and cried. I cried again for those who died. I cried for their loved ones and I cried for all of us who lost a part of ourselves. Our sense of security, our livelihoods, our innocence, forever gone.
N. Johnson
Brooklyn, NY
I wasn't there in person... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now I'm thinking bombing, although it's kin dof strange that the bombs would go off near the top of the building. It was bad, but it didn't look like a significant number of people were going to be hurt/killed (significant > 300). Then of course, right before my eyes (and the reporter didn't even seem to notice, incidently), one of the towers just collapses, almost in slow motion. That's when it hit me - a lot of people just died.
Right before I went to my poly sci class, the other tower collapsed too. I had no idea what was going to happen next. Maybe a plane was heading for D.C. and going to hit the white house? Maybe that plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was heading for Chicago (where I'm from). I'm just glad this wasn't even better planned out. Think, if they (whoever is behing this) hijacked planes in Chicago, San Fransico, Los Angeles, etc, a whole lot more people would be dead today.
F-bacher
A Perspective from Capitol Hill (Score:4, Interesting)
The place was pretty calm, but our Congressman ordered us to get out and later the whole building was evacuated. It was a fairly bizarre experience being on the Hill surrounded by all kinds of people (aides, politicans, interns like myself, senior officials from various places around for meetings) with us all being moved away from the Capitol (the presumed target of any attack on Capitol Hill itself) and told to get home, whilst simultaneously the entire city was gridlocked and the metro system suspended.
There wasn't blind panic, but there was a definite feeling in the air that we were a serious target if there were going to be more attacks. Fortunately, there were not, and I managed to get home soon after 12, once Union Station's metro stop had been reopened.
The scariest thing about the whole experience, though, was not the possibility of attack against Congress, but the certainty that the event will be used as justification both for additional killings ("We must strike back against those responsible for harbouring these terrorists"), probably without taking the time to find out who really did it (just look at the debacles over the Lockerbie bombing and the US missile attack on a Sudanese asprin factory) and also for a forfeiture of even more civil rights in the name of security.
Speaking as an outsider, but one who has been working within the US political system, I find both prospects deeply scary.
Tom
Parent
Passengers on planes (Score:5, Informative)
I'm off to give blood
Jason
Re:Passengers on planes (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Passengers on planes (Score:5, Insightful)
Forgive me for speculating. In truth, none of us will ever know the complete story of what happened on board those airliners. But for years, everyone has been trained and told to sit tight, don't resist, and let the negotiators do their work. Before, that has always been good advice. As of this morning, it may be the worst thing you could do.
My heart goes out to the families of all the victims, everywhere.
Parent
Re:Passengers on planes (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd personally like to see the cockpit isolated from the rest of the plane, a big metal shield. If you can't get to the cockpit, hijacking the plane becomes hard, forcing the pilot to do this becomes impossible.
Parent
Re:Passengers on planes (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I was talking with a commercial airline pilot friend of mine today, and he said that those doors are specifically designed to be flimsy. They're supposed to blow out easily in case of explosive cabin depressurization or something.
I'd personally like to see the cockpit isolated from the rest of the plane, a big metal shield.
Yeah, my pilot friend mentioned that he'd like to see the same thing.
Parent
Re:Passengers on planes (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you've seen too many movies. First of all, I believe there are generally 3-5 people piloting these jumbo jets. If a pilot had a heart attack, the copilot or the navigator would take over. Besides, I doubt an inexperienced passenger could land something like a 767.
A suicidal pilot taking a fully loaded plane down with him? How often does that happen? I'll take my chances with that one.
Fire in the cockpit? If you have a fire in the cockpit, you're in serious trouble regardless...
Separating the cokpit is a great idea. The fact is that jumbo jets today aren't designed with security in mind, and they need to be. We have crossed into a new era.
Parent
A scenario to consider (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, with a terrorist in charge, why wouldn't the passengers simply attack the men with knives and take them out? Simple. The terrorists tell them "We're hijacking this plane and flying it to <middle eastern location of your choice>. If nobody gets out of hand you'll all be let go/kept safe as soon as we land. But we terrorists are not afraid to die! If you resist, we will set this plane on a collision course with the ground." Furthermore, the terrorists can be as friendly as possible to the people on board to calm them.
In short, they lie to the passengers and make it sound like sitting back is the safe and reasonable thing to do. The terrorists have absolutely no reason to let the passengers know what's really going to happen to them at the end of the flight. And the passengers have very little reason to suspect it. When has this ever happened before?
Parent
From across the river in NJ (Score:4, Insightful)
After looking at this sight for a few minutes, I went back to the NOC, and was informing coworkers of what I saw. Someone came in, and said "Another airplane hit the other building!". I ran down the hallways again, and sure enough, there was the flames and the fires. I felt sick, as I was sure this was not accidental. And one of my first thoughts was 'Bin Laden.'.
I don't really remember the next few minutes that well, but I do remember standing in an office nearby when the first building went down. Puffs of smoke were comming up from the bottom, and we all thought another bomb had gone off. Remember, at this time we were hearing reports of bombings at the capital, the pentagon, the mall, and the whitehouse. We all stood dumbly as the bulding fell, and I don't think anyone spoke. And a little after that, the other one came down. I did not see that one, for which I am glad. The sight of the first one is going to haunt me as long as I live I fear.
God help us, God help the victims, and God help those poor bastards who did this. Our revenge will be terrible.
Future of Encryption (and our civil rights)? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you thought the FBI wiretapping Little Nicky Scarfo on only a search warrant was horrifying, consider the bully stick that will be bandied about now. Encryption is bad. Terrorists using encryption got past all our intelligence. Outlaw encryption now! If we didn't have to go through all that judicial rigamarole to keep an eye on terrorists, we would have done better. We promise we won't wiretap anyone without a magistrate's approval who doesn't really, really, REALLY deserve it.
As shocking and horrifying as what happened today is, and as unbelievable that the intelligence community knew nothing about it (or did they? [slashdot.org]), I am scared shitless about what we have ahead of us.
Re:Future of Encryption (and our civil rights)? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's exactly what scares the piss out of me. Even as a very firm civil libertarian, I waver somewhat on my convictions in the face of something like what happened today. It's purely an emotional response, rather than a logical one. Even with unlimited secret wiretaps and complete world-wide key escrow, it would have been well nigh impossible to prevent today's actions, and my logical mind knows that. As a human though, you have to feel an inexorable pull to do whatever is necessary to prevent this from happening again.
The hard part will be convincing the "man in the street" of the same thing. Come on too strong, and you seem to be a callous whack job. Too soft, and you might as well undo the pants, because your ports aren't the only thing that's going to get probed on the net.
Parent
level heads (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone remembers after the OKC bombing everyone thought it was Arabs (specificly muslums), and there were instances of violence agains Arabic Americans. We do not know yet who did this, and even if it does turn out to be Arabs, or Muslums, please make it a point to speak out against any type of retaliation agains Arabs and Muslums in the US. No more inocent people need to suffer for the actions of a few extremists. We all need to make sure that freedom in this country survies through this disaster. It almost scares me that things like this need to be writen, but humanity being what it is, I figure it can't hurt.
Thank you
Justin
Re:level heads (Score:5, Insightful)
I think its time that everyone has a good look at their sigs....
Parent
What you can do now. (Score:4, Insightful)
I ran downtown to be of some use, and made my way deep into the financial district shortly after the second building collapsed. Large groups of us volunteers gathered, waiting for instructions, but unless you were a doctor or CPR certified, there was not much you could do. A few of us volunteered to give blood, and we were put on a bus that led us through the carnage of the area surrounding the towers. Inches of ash and soot. Entire blocks covered in papers, most halfway burnt. Eventually, we were rerouted, and taken to Saint Vincent's medical center to donate, but turned away due to the incredible volume of people willing to donate.
I'm planning to donate tomorrow, and if you live in Manhattan, please do so as well.
In the meantime, despite all the horrendous acts of the past 12 hours--all the heartache, all the loss of life--please, let's try to keep a level head about things. If we go off bombing another country, there will most likely be civilian casualties there as well--what more evidence do we need to see that life is precious? I saw too many dying people carted in on stretchers at St. Vincent's today.
Even if they die in another country, they are still people, and bleed red like you and me.
I found out from Penny Arcade (Score:5, Insightful)
experience from earlier today (Score:5, Informative)
I woke up to the sound of the first plane flying overhead. I said to myself "wow that sounds like it is pretty low" then I heard it crash and jumped out of bed.I watched the first building collapse from the roof. Took pictures of it. People were jumping out of the windows of the towers because they could not evacuate in time. My whole neighborhood was on the rooftops. When the buildings collapsed, the whole village screamed all at once. People were up there screaming and yelling and crying. I helped this old woman call her friends that live and work there who she could not reach. She was hysterical. My landlord's brother was in one of the towers. Most of the phone lines are down, including cell phones which have lost their towers. Subways, busses, bridges, tunnels, trains were all closed. Now some of it exiting Manhattan has been opened. Six NYU dorms were evacuated and all the people living in them were herded into a gym.There was an amazing migration of people north through the streets.The area looks like an apocalypse. Everything is grey and cloudy and there is 5 inches of debris on the ground. It looks like it is snowing. City hall looks like it is standing in a desert. Police were going up and down the streets yelling into loudspeakers. I'm so used to hearing sirens now, it is like birds chirping. They are concerned now of biological weapons so hopefully the wind won't shift and blow smoke my way.Third building just fell. They fear more because they are on fire and can't seem to get them out.All schools closed. All hospitals filled. They need more blood. Death toll has been climbing all day.
SSSCA and Terrorism (Score:4, Offtopic)
The SSSCA seeks to limit our copying and mirroring of copyrighted content. It would have been impossible to mirror news and events (pictures, view, text) from content owners such as ABCNEWS.COM (Disney) and MSNBC.COM (Microsoft) today if all hardware was locked down.
Seeing as these content owners (ABCNEWS.COM) were not able to keep the information flowing, shouldn't content controls be easily circumventable in times of crisis? Isn't the fact that all these news sites were down testiment to the fact that the SSSCA is a bad idea? Where would we be without individuals mirroring and copying information when the major news portals were down?
I obtained a lot of my info from mirrors today - not the major sites. Thank goodness for the individuals who mirrored information from the major news sites. I hope that in a few years time they will be able to do the same should another trajedy like this occur.
My Neighbor Survived (Score:5, Informative)
jumping out of the towers and strike the ground. He was outside a few hundred yards from the towers when the first one fell. He dove into a subway entrance as a black clould of ash and debris came rolling across the plaza. His friend broke his ankle in the dive for safety.
He knows of 10 friends who lost their lives today. Two of those are friends he grew up with.
His account is horrific. He saw someone dismembered by the falling debris just a few yards from where he was.
What a phone call (Score:4, Insightful)
Then I heard an explosion over the phone, as my boss excalimed "Oh my God! There was just a second explosion, this has to be a terrorist attack!" He had to run -- for hopefully obvious reasons -- and I have not been able to contact him since.
This isn't informative in any way, but I simply wanted to put it in writing. If you read this, thanks for hearing me out. Sometimes just writing out what you feel is quite helpful. Most of my family is in New York, and so are most of my business aquiantances. I have no idea how they are all doing, nor how soon I will be able to return. To everyone else going through this uncertainty right now, I wish you the best of luck.
I was there (Score:5, Informative)
I also thought, what a horrible accident, but I assumed that it was a private airplane. Today was a beautiful day to fly after all(I'm a private pilot).
From one corner of our floor on 48th floor, we get a clear view of the towers. We all went there. The north tower was on fire and there were papers floating in the air. I was trying to find out what kind of airplane caused the fire.
While standing there, I caught a sight of another airplane, a twin engine jet, it was banking to right. It came, what seemed like slightly below where we were and smashed straight into the other tower. A huge fire ball went up covering almost the entire upper third of the tower. Then it was gone and the second tower was on fire.
A second or so later, we heard the explosion and felt out building shake. At this point we all realized that this was no accident and we all ran to get out of the building.
As the elevators were full we ran down the staircase and then got out on the street.
Since clearly there would be no further work today, I decided to walk to Brooklyn to my mother-in-laws house. When I was walking across the Brooklyn Bridge we saw F-15s circling high over New York.
Just as I reached the middle of the bridge we heard a crash. I turned around and saw the huge tower of World Trade Center collapse....
I feel horrible...
what you can do (Score:5, Insightful)
1. give blood. the local red cross nationwide will be holding blood drives tomorrow if they haven't managed to start today. Don't bother going to the red cross site its attackdotted. just look up the red cross in your white pages. or go to the mall thats where my local is holding their drive tomorrow (thr first of many)
2. you can give money if you can't give blood. its easy too. I don't know about other places but hear in southeastern virginia you can go to Food Lion (local big box grocery store) at the register there are 1$, 3$, and 5$ coupons that can be scanned and add the amount to your bill. instantly you've given the red cross money to help.
I've already given my 5 bucks and tomorrow am heading for the mall to give blood. I suggest we all do the same.
I'm not military but I work on base. NAS Oceana in va beach VA. my entire community is in shock. we are the largest military town in the world and also a huge target. schools are closed businesses are closed streets are empty as family members say goodbye to sailors, soldiers and airmen as they are called into duty. the aircraft carriers that are underway for new york and D.C. are based here. I've probably served them a hamburger. (yes, mcdonalds) don't know if I'm going to work tomorrow or not.this is all too bizarre.
3. Lastly. most importantly, we should keep a level head, put aside our differences and back our president no matter how much we may dislike him. (card carrying democrat here) now is not a time for finger pointing and antagonism.
Giving Blood (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
A Third Person Report (Score:4, Insightful)
My cousin, Maryann, worked in the WTC for the Port Authority of NY and NJ.
She was on her way to work, on a bus in NYC, when she saw the first plane hit. She, and the others on the bus thought it was an accident.
Then she saw the second plane hit and realized it was no accident.
She got out of the bus and started walking north. She went to the Port Authority Bus Terminal, but it was closed. As she worked for the Port Authority, they let her in to sit a while. She is short and overweight, and not used to all that walking.
She then heard that trains were leaving from Penn Station. So she walked on down and got on a very crowded train.
She didn't want to go home and be alone, so she went to my parent's who live a couple of miles from her home.
She told her story to my mom and dad. And cried and cried. She had worked there for over thirty years. She doesn't know how many of her freinds and coworkers are dead. She does know that her best friend is alive. She can't get the images out of her head.
Eventually her husband made it home and took Maryann to their house. Other cousins and friends came over to be with her, and a doctor cousin brought her a sedative.
It turns out one of the planes hit the floor she worked on.
I have not spoken with Maryann. My parents told me this story, thus it is a third hand story.
My parents and my cousins live in NJ. I live in NJ. I work in Torrance, CA. I fly out and back ever other week, Philadelphia to LA. My boss flies out every week to LA from Newark. It is possible that he and/or I new some of the flight crew (we've been back and forth for several years now). I'm sure I'll be quite nervous when I fly home, and each time I fly for quite some time to come.
I am a regular blood donor and last gave blood last Tuesday. Please give blood if you are able. Thanks.
Steve M
I was there (Score:4, Insightful)
Have to add content to get past the lameness filter
I worked on the 51st floor of the World Trade Cent (Score:5, Interesting)
This morning, I took the N/R train to where the subway exit blends into the concourse underneath the WTC. At 8:45 AM I got out and started walking to the basement entrance to my building, but saw billows of smoke rushing towards me. People were screaming to get the hell out.
After exiting the building, it was snowing office paper and debris. On Church Street, from the street that borders the eastern block, a gaping hole 10 stories high breathed flame and smoke. Mobs of people were trotting away on the street; some were crying, worried about friends and colleagues. Then I witnessed the first few people, plunging to their deaths, apparently to escape the fire that would have painfully scorched them to death.
By this time most people were gathered around watching the building burn and calling people. I ran into an hysterical colleague who I tried to comfort. We then witnessed more people jumping. Sick of the ghastliness, we went out of sight of the buildings behind Trinity Church on Broadway.
A few minutes later, a second explosion shook the area, and panicked people ran away. It was complete mayhem. People tripped over each other. Mothers were protecting their baby carriages. In the fray I lost touch with my colleague. I was in complete shock, but I managed to walk home safely to the East Village.
Pictures and Videos Needed! (Score:5, Informative)
I know how we all feel about facial-matching software, but please don't let your priciples get in the way of brining the terrorists to justice. Despite your fears, the *reality* of this kind of terrorism is far worse than the *possible* loss of privacy you fear.
PLEASE turn a copy in to the FBI or Police!
WHERE IS THE FIFTH PLANE? (Score:4, Interesting)
Colorado is home to NORAD, isn't it? The installation wouldn't be harmed -- it's built to withstand nukes -- but it'd be a natural target for scaring the US.
Anyone heard anything more about this?
Terrorist newsgroup post? (Score:5, Interesting)
Terrorism, jingoism, and hysteria (Score:5, Insightful)
first heard the big news on the bus. Some yuppies in the back were talking, obviously taking about six seconds of CNN
coverage and filling in the gaps with their own conjecture and racism.
"It must have been Osama Bin Laden," one said. I wonder how much this person knows about Osama Bin Laden other than
the fact that the State Department made him boogeyman of the year a while back.
"We need to kick them [Arabs] out of the country. They can't come in any more. Sorry." said a woman.
After a few minutes I gathered that some planes had been hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center. No one knew who
did it, but just like the days immediately after the Oklahoma City Bombing, it was assumed to be the Arabs.
When I got to work things were even uglier. One of my coworkers said, "can't we just beat them to death?"
We're not even sure who did it yet. Members of various groups have claimed responsibility then other members of the same
group have denied it. Many folks on the 'net have cited a television broadcast of Palestinians cheering, but that means nothing.
Some have expressed shock at this, but really, how many of these same people sat patriotically by and watched remote-control
warfare on CNN when we attacked Iraq or Serbia? I'm not saying it's good that people are cheering, but I am saying it's not
surprising.
I'm hearing the usual epithets that one hears when people react to a shocking, violent news event: "sick", "crazy", "coward". At
the risk of appearing to defend the attacks, I'm really not sure if this is productive. Terrorists aren't necessarily "sick" or
"cowards". Terrorists are simply soldiers who can't afford uniforms and high tech military hardware. They are not necessarily
more or less sick and cowardly than the U.S. pilots who bombed a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan a few years ago, or the ones
who firebombed Tokyo and Dresden in the Second World War.
It's important to put things in context, keep a cool head, and deal with the situation as it exists. It's important that none of us be
like the guy who posted to Usenet after the Oklahoma City bombing that we should just randomly attack cities in the Mideast
(after it turned out to be an American, some folks asked him if he thought we should randomly attack cities in the Midwest).
We must follow the words of Mother Jones who once told us, "Mourn for the dead, fight like hell for the living."
That means fighting for living non-White non-Americans, too. Many of us are feeling a compassion for the victims of this attack.
We must keep this compassion alive if and when we hear calls for random bombings of the Mideast, or for attacks on civilian
populations in Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan. We must fight like hell against the racism and xenophobia that hides just under the
surface of our culture, manifesting itself in people who want to kick Arabs out of our country or beat them to death. We must
safeguard the lives of our fellow human beings and we must be vigilant against those in power who will use this as an excuse to
destroy our civil liberties the way they did in the anti-German and anti-radical scares around the First World War or the
Japanese internment during the Second World War.
We must not get hysterical about this being the beginning of World War III. World War III would require both sides to have a
military. Those with a military don't hijack planes. We must not allow the anti-Arab violence that shot up dramatically during the
Gulf War happen again ten years later. We must stop our government from acting like the 800-pound gorilla of the world that
stifles all peaceful attempts at change (like our actions regarding the recent U.N. conference on racism) and therefore makes
violent acts of terrorism the only recourse for some.
We must counter hysteria and paranoia with logic and reason. We must protect our Arab-American brothers and sisters against
jingoism and hatred. We must remember that a lynching is a lynching whether it's performed by people in klan white, police
blue, or army green. We must end the bombing and starvation of the people of Iraq started by Bush the Elder and continued
under Bush the Lesser. This attack was on the centers of American military power and economic domination. Just as we mourn
for the dead who worked at these institutions, we must fight for the living who are victim of their policies.
If we don't fight for the living; if we allow hatred, paranoia, and jingoism to determine our actions; if we cheer U.S. military
superiority as made-for-tv bombing campaigns kill more civilians and destroy more lives; than we are the real cowards.
Known Fact (Score:4, Informative)
Osama Bin-Laden owns an airfield in Afghanistan where pilots are trained on jumbo jets for terrorist acts. Did you see the precision with which those two planes hit the towers? I've never flown a 767, but I used to be a private pilot, and I seriously doubt that Joe Shmoe Terrorist off the streets of Palestine would have been able to take over the controls and fly these planes in like that. These guys had training in commercial aviation, and you're talking some big bucks there. That narrows it down to a select group of terrorist organizations that they could have come from, and Bin Laden is on that list.
Parent
Self-Centered? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, indeed it is a crisis. But I hardly think that testifying against unjust legislation is self-centered.
Among other terrible consequences, the government is likely to use this event to leverage more scary laws which limit our freedom, this time for the sake of intelligence groups. It will also not be self-centered to be a voice of reason in these issues as well, so don't give up!
German Impressions, and thinking about Who, Why, a (Score:5, Insightful)
Driving home took me twice as long because many places like the U.S. Embassy and many Jewish places were heavily guarded and many streets were blocked.
I myself had my father murdered last year, and I feel with everybody who has lost relatives or friends in this brutal crime, who will live through moments of this day through next months again and again, and who will not enjoy a happy moment for long while. Everybody who has ever lost a loved one as result of criminal violence knows what I am talking about.
What can help is to find out who did it, why they did it, and what can be done that such a thing will never happen again.
Jane's has some professional assessment [janes.com] of who might be capable and has a motive for doing such a thing.
Their analysts say Osama Bin Laden is Nr. 1 on the list of suspects.
Whoever will turn out to be behind this, it is very probable that he used Know-How that was originally created within some government secret agency like the KGB, the CIA, the Mossad or maybe a dozen other government funded agencies from around the world.
The USA has it's share in supporting "freedom fighters" against foreign rogue governments. The USA once even supported Osama Bin Laden when he organized the Rebellion in Afghanistan against the Russian occupation. Other examples of former U.S. friends are Sadam Hussein, who was supported in his war against Iran, the Contra in Nicaragua, and the UCK in Yugoslavia fighting against the Serbs. There are probably a few hundred groups and leaders supported worldwide by 'civilized' governments, many of them with the clear intention killing people to reach their political aims.
In the above and many other cases US agencies helped to spread weapons and guerrilla warfare techniques, and probably more important, it created shady organizations with capable leaders, structures and worldwide contacts with the primary purpose to spread terror and destruction.
The problem is, that after the war is won and the rogue government overthrown, these people, their weapons, their followers and their state of mind doesn't cease to exist.
Throw in some areas like Palestina, Afghanistan, Tchechenia, Africa and Middle/South America where children haven't been seen human rights or peace for the last 30 years, and you get a large supply of people who have nothing to loose except their miserable life, and get the chance to become eternal heroes within their society by blowing up themselves and taking as many as possible with them.
What can be done
No "civilized" country should sell any weapon to anyone without democratic legitimisation; even better, all international weapon trading should be simply forbidden, including hand guns
All secret agencies in "civilized" countries must be closer controlled to avoid creation of new guerrilla armies around the world
Anonymous Transfer and laundry of large sums of money must be controlled to dry up funding of weapon trade and funding of rouge groups
Every Individual connected with weapon trading or supporting guerrilla in a foreign country should be severely punished
Human rights must be honoured everywhere in the world, and everyone not honouring them should become outlawed
Fair International Trade and real substantial development support should help to create a reasonable level of wealth everywhere in the world
The problem with the above things is not that they require an idealistic world; the problem is, the would put many important and powerful people in the USA and other countries, Israel quite ahead, in the rogue camp.
The USA e.g. would have to face that killing imprisoned people, even convicted criminals, is not justice, but a crime against humanity.
And just hearing about some explosions in Kabul, it seems that the US Government has a long way to go, and to learn some more lessons. I do not have any sympathy for those lunatics in Afghanistan, but they are a result of cold war superpower games and did not chose their fate, and the killing of innocent people does not justify the killing other innocent people.
Another thing from history that many people in the U.S. are not aware of:
Terrorism works.
Especially in rich countries where life is highly valued, and people have a lot to loose they are easily scared by terrorist attacks, even if the real danger is statistically marginal compared to tobacco or traffic, the perceived danger is large enough to change a society.
And you can not stop terrorist attacks by people who are willing to sacrifice their life; just look to Israel these days.
You can not stop terror by killing people, as you can not cure your AIDS by fucking a virgin, as believed by many people in Africa and Asia.
Some predictions for the future:
Someone guilty will be found, probably Ben Ladin
Bombs will be thrown by the US Military, and more innocent people will be killed
A lot of annoying and expensive security measures will be taken
Civil Rights will be restricted in the U.S. and other civilized country
More innocent people will be killed in the U.S. by terrorist attacks
Finally, the terrorists will not achieve their ultimate goals and be hunted down and isolated from their environment;
to achieve this, compromises will be made to dry up the particular terror breeding grounds, like creating more wealth and stability in these regions
the fear of terrorism will have impact on political decisions, and in the long term US politicians will be more careful because of this fear
After this bad day I hope that today's events will be a unique experience in my life, and not the begin of a new era of terror and war.
Lets make this world a better place.
p.
Giving Blood in Canada (Score:5, Informative)
REPORT SOMEONE WHO IS SAFE! (Score:5, Informative)
Please report everyone you know of who has survived the attacks.
U. Berkeley has apparently supported this with a few hundred servers. GO TO IT AND SPREAD THE WORD!
My Wife Was In WTC #2 When the First Plane Crashed (Score:5, Informative)
My wife, Stacy, worked in tower #2, 21st floor. She was in a
meeting at 8:45 when the first plane crashed into tower #1. She
heard the plane coming in, loud enough to make her think it was
flying unusually close to the buildings.
After the crash, she saw large chunks of burning debris falling
down. Her office decided to evacuate immediately. Thanks to all
the fire drills they've done since the '93 bombing, they knew
exactly what to do, where to go. They got into the staircase
quickly, and started walking down the 21 floors.
Stacy didn't hear any alarms or building announcements. There
were other people in the staircase, heading down, but it wasn't
crowded.
When Stacy and her coworkers got to the lobby, security guards
directed them away from the Liberty St. exit. They used the
Church St. exit instead. Outside the building, security guards
told them to move away from the building. One of the guards kept
shouting, "It was a plane, not a bomb!"
At first Stacy hesitated, because she saw debris coming down,
but she realized it was paper from offices. So she crossed Church
St.
As Stacy was crossing Church St., she turned and looked back for the
first time. She saw the flames shooting out of the top of tower #1. She
stopped in her tracks for a few seconds, stunned.
Across Church St., Stacy found a bunch of her coworkers in front of
Century 21. Their boss told them to go home. Stacy turned and starting
walking down Cortlandt St. towards Broadway.
Near Broadway, Stacy stopped to look again. She didn't see the
second plane crash into tower #2, but she saw the enormous
fireball explode. People started screaming. Everyone on the
street started running away from the Trade Center.
I asked her what it sounded like. Oddly, she doesn't remember hearing it.
There were fire engines and emergency vehicles everywhere.
Stacy ran about 3 blocks before she felt safe. She walked to the
entrance of the Brooklyn Bridge and sat down on one of the benches
to collect herself.
As Stacy walked across the bridge, she kept looking back at the burning
towers. They were intact while she walked. On the Brooklyn side, she
picked up a bus and was home by 11 AM.
I've lived in Israel and this is different (Score:5, Insightful)
There are some similarities: the grim determination to rescue, clean up, and continue life as normal and not let it affect you. The pulling together of people from all walks of life uniting to help each other. The faith that sustains.
However, this attack feels very different. I think that the biggest difference is how unbelievable this attack is. I'm still having trouble comprehending that it actually happened in real life. Most suicide bombings are sickeningly real, while this is like a horrible fantasy.
There is also a freshness to the horror here. This is something that Americans have not really had to face. It is a naivete lost, a bubble burst. Very different from the weariness that Israelis feel at yet another attack.
Another aspect of this tragedy is that, to me, it is so huge that it's impersonal, faceless. We don't know who did this, have no person to put our finger on. There is no shaheed, his "heroic" face plastered throughout the Palestinian Authority. Nor do we really know why, or even exactly what their target was. The American government? The American people? Bankers? Globalization? Or, as our leaders proclaim, Freedom and democracy?
And the losses are so massive that it's impossible to get a sense of who the victims are, unless you know someone personally. I think that's the most important thing for us to concentrate on right now: there are real people who are real victims. We can't let the sheer numbers obscure the pain. Unfortunately, this attack will redefine tragedy: from now on, if "only" a hundred people are killed, that will seem like nothing. We must remember that each person is an entire world.
Inside the Pentagon this Morning (Score:5, Interesting)
While I was in line at Pentagon City Mall waiting to use the payphone to tell my wife I was alive, several of the other people in line were discussing what had happened. One was a Navy officer whose office was on an upper floor of the D-ring (the second outermost ring) of the side that was struck, and other than noticing how loud the explosion was he hadn't known just how close he was to where the plane went in. Another guy was outside on the side where the plane went in. He said it was so low that it clipped a light pole on the way in. He was the first source where I heard that the plane struck the ground just short of the building (or it might have been much worse.) He also said that a lot of the fire problems were probably because the side hit had an emergency generator with a large diesel tank (thus the thick black smoke early in the fire.) Several people who left the building before I did reported hearing a secondary explosion which might have been the diesel tank going up. I met back up with some other people I knew a bit later. They had been in a snack bar on the A Ring (the innermost ring) of the Pentagon and heard a not very loud bang, looked down the corridor toward the outside of the building, saw smoke, and crossed the courtyard to leave the other side of the building. The only (somewhat) good news was the plane struck on the side of the building where a section that had just been renovated met the next section to be renovated, so not everyone had moved into the renovated section and some people had already been moved out of the other section. That had to have reduced the death toll. Other than that, waiting around looking for a way to get home, I learned a lot less about what was happening than the people at home with TV and internet news.
As far as the emergency response, I was very impressed. You have about 5 different police jurisdictions around the Pentagon and the police very rapidly arrived to direct cars away from the area to allow emergency vehicles through and weren't getting in each other's way. There were fire trucks arriving on the scene before I got out of the building, but after the nearby units had arrived the traffic snarl up slowed the arrival of more distant units.
How 9.11.01 shaped up for me in NYC (Score:5, Interesting)
I went in very early b/c I was leaving early to pick up my son since my wife was training in NYC and wouldn't be able to get him. I had an 8:30 meeting with my boss. We were discussing things like who we were going to let go and such.
The building shook a bit. But there has been a lot of construction at Union Square so this was no out of the ordinary.
Then the door flew open. This does not happen ever. One of the HR guys says the World Financial Center has been hit by a plane.
I freak my Mother works in the WFC. I am running to my office to get my cell phone. I am going downtown. Someone, I don't know who says go on the roof. We have access to the roof. I went. I don't know why. I saw the gaping hole on the side of the WTC. The WFC is a foot ball throw away from the WTC. I am still extremely concerned.
The second tower explodes. I do not understand the other tower is on fire not the second tower. Why is this happening?
I formulate ideas as I run down the stairs to get out of the building. Maybe a wing flew off.
I get to the stret my assistant NW guy is standing on 14th. He doesn't come this way usually. Usually he is on 15th. He does not understand what is happening. He is concerned becuase he knows my mother is over there. I explain I am going to get her. A large, large NYPD person explains I am not going down there.
My cell phone does not work. I cannot call anyone.
I go back to my office an frantically begin calling everyone I know down there. My uncle is on the Brooklyn Bridge. My Father is MIA. My Mother has called but is cut off midsentence.
Several minutes maybe an hour pass the tower collapses. From 5th Ave it looks very much like it has fallen on the WFC. I am despondent.
Hours later bruised and bloodied with shoe marks on her face my Mother wanders into my office. I have everyone I know calling her. She just walks in. Sever minutes later my Father walks in the door. and a few minutes after that my wife.
The 5 of use (Wife, Mother, Father, assistant) leave the building and walk to the 59th street bridge and leave Manhattan.
story of a friend, who works in wtc1 floor 95 (Score:5, Interesting)
Real Story:
So I walk out of the WTC Path train at about 8:55am, like I would on any other weekday. Immedidately, the smell of smoke was obvious. I briskly walked outside (instead of heading to the elevator to the 95th floor), and found the streets covered with charred office supplies. Everyone was standing around, staring up at One World Trade, and the flaming hole that had been left by the commercial airliner in the 95th floor. I was standing about a block away from 2 WTC. We all tried our very best to raise our loved ones and bosses on our cell phones, but to no avail. In the midst of that confusion... BOOM!
A plane had hit the second building. I saw the impact, but could make little sense of it, since it happened so fast. Immediately, everyone ran as fast as they could. I saw a number of people not too far from me get hit by falling debris. It was tough to make out exactly what happened to them, but generally you don't survive being hit by anything that falls from that high. Anyway, I ran into the nearest open building. Turns out it was a high school. A small group of us waited in the auditorium there for a while. We swapped brief stories of how we came to realize that this horrific act of terrorism was happening right above our heads. About 30 minutes later, everything seemed calm, and many of us left the shelter of the high school auditorium. There were crowds of people standing just a few blocks away from the WTC complex. All of them were gazing at the rippling tides of flame and smoke coming out of the former symbol of financial and economic greatness. Then, with little warning, the entire top of one of the buildings (i think 2) began to cruble!
Everyone immediately realized that this was extremely bad, and a frantic rampage ensued. A massive crowd of people was barreling eastward to get away from the blast and debris. No matter how far any of us got, we were eventually enveloped by an incredibly thick cloud of brownish smoke and concrete. Visibility was quickly cut to zero. I felt around, (I knew I was right next to a building) and found a small inset in the front of some building. A bunch of us, say 10, wound up there, huddling in the darkness and smog. A man next to me noticed a glass door, that we tried to break with our feet. That didn't work, but we quickly found a brick and smashed the door. Once we got inside, the air was much clearer, but obviously, it was thickening in a hurry. One Asian lady had apparently breathed in a large amount of the overpowering cloud, and was not able to breathe. We carried her inside the building, and someone who had medical training took over trying to help her. She coughed up some very horrible things, and then seemed to die.
Just as this was happening, I realized we couldn't stay in that place any longer. The air had become just as bad as outside (in a total of about 3 minutes). Two of us began exploring and I quickly found a staircase leading to the main lobby of the building. Most of us went up there. I don't exactly know what happened to the people down below, but I believe most of them made it up to the lobby. Once in the lobby, we just hung out for a while. We were very unsure of what would happen next.
The second building collapsed. This time we were inside, and it barely affected us. We definitely noticed the gross air accumulating in the building, and outside it was as black as night. After that blast subsided, I noticed a small glass room one level above. I went up there and found all the executives of the company sitting around in this nice boardroom-type thing. I promptly used the phone to call my Mom and let her know that I was alright. Then I called my Dad and the House. I stayed there for about another 20 minutes, until I could take these conditions no longer (the smoke was definitely seeping into the building). I walked outside, and the streets were basically deserted. I had no idea whether there would be more terrorist attacks, so I just started running towards the Battery.
When I arrived there, I quickly noticed a tug-boat at the dock. They said they were going to Jersey City, so I jumped on. They were very nice, and gave me food and drink (I looked pretty bad by this time). I helped a few old ladies and whatnot get on the boat and be comfortable. About 10 minutes later, we left for JC. They dropped us of pretty far south in JC, and I walked back to Hoboken (cell phones not working, of course). I was much relieved to finally get home.
Personal account from the scene in NYC... (Score:5, Interesting)
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 11:02 PM
I don't think I've come to terms with what I have witnessed today. The only thing I can do to try to come to some closure on this is to try and document what I saw on the darkest day in recent history.
Today started out quite ordinarily. C**** and I were scheduled for Sun Fire training on the 20th floor of the World Trade Center at 9AM. Certainly not very noteworthy in and of itself.
I got to the office at 7. C**** arrived 15 minutes late. I grumbled to myself about being on time and missing out on 15 minutes of sleep, but I kept to myself. Traffic was horrible, as usual, and we made our way to the Path station in Jersey City.
We got on the Path to the World Trade Center- probably it was about 8:40 or so. Nothing to comment on. I hate the Path. Its dark, dingy, but C**** swears by it so I didn't complain. We exited in the World Trade Center station and I noticed immediately a strange diesel fuel-like smell and a haze in the air. I jokingly thought maybe someone was running a bus in the station. Now, New Yorkers walk fast, but I noticed that people were moving along quite a bit faster than usual. The transit cops down there said there was a fire, and that everyone needed to quickly exit. I wasn't too panicky, but I expeditiously made my way towards the exit.
We escaped into daylight into quite a commotion. We turned around and looked up to see a gaping hole in the tower and flames streaming out. Quite a shocking sight. We were forced a few blocks away where C**** and I were staring at the tower bewildered but not overly concerned. We were cracking jokes about the training being cancelled and missing meetings and stuff. I was thinking that I wish I had my camera to take some pictures. All the fun and games came to a halt when people started jumping to their deaths. I don't quite know how to describe what that looks like. It really looks like someone threw a large rag doll- it doesn't look real at all. After watching a few people jump it was then I realized that this was not at all fun and games. I heard in the crowd that a plane had struck the tower. Not surprising to me at all. I've been on the observation deck, everyone knows that you look down on the planes as they fly near the city on landing approach. Surely, this was a tragic and horrific accident. Too many damn planes in the air I remember thinking, it was bound to happen eventually. Of course, I heard the mumblings 'deliberately' and 'terrorists' but I dismissed those. You know how paranoid New Yorkers are.
It was about that time that tower 2 spontaneously exploded right before our horrified eyes. I?m only 2 or 3 blocks south of the tower and what I saw was like something out of Die Hard or Terminator. Trust me, they got the effect right. As we all stood there staring, it seemed like an eternity as the tower was engulfed in a ball of flame. It wasn't until a few milliseconds later that the massive concussion wave stuck the dumbfounded crowd and I realized in that instant that I was probably going to be killed by falling chunks. Everyone did the worlds fastest 180 degree turn and ran for their lives. I saw C**** slip into the building directly behind us. The door closed and was magnetically locked behind him. I pulled on the handle in a futile attempt to follow, but realized that it wasn't going to budge. Then I really thought that was the end. I ran towards the next building, which I saw had a little cranny behind a 6 or 7 foot tall iron fence. In an instant I saw my shelter from the falling debris. I was over that fence so quickly I don't even know how I did it. I fell to the concrete on the other side, and scrambled into the little masonry
shield with my back towards the Twin Towers. I waited for gravity to do its magic and bring all the deadly missiles safely to earth. I realized in my hiding spot that I cut my hand and my leg was hurting like nobody's business. I also realized that there was no reason that an accidental crash into tower 1 would cause tower 2 to explode. This was serious- if the intention was to bring down the tower, I would not be in a very good spot to survive such an event. Once it was clear that the immediate danger passed, I walked out of my shelter and turned to see tower 2 burning. Time to go. I continued south, limping all the way to the entrance to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.
I was hurting, but alive and far enough from the Towers to be ok. Next order of business: Get the hell home. How? Terrorists attack buildings, bridges, tunnels? but probably not the ferries. The Water Taxi that docks at the Trade Center was probably blown up, I figured, so I had to head up north to the NY Waterway ferry. I knew it was a hike but the most likely exit from the city to be unaffected. So I licked my wounds and made my way northeast, staying out of collapse radius for the towers. As I crossed the area directly east of the Towers, I saw bits of what was obviously airplane parts and some chunks of building. No doubt about it, it was an airplane. I continued limping my way northeast and then northwest, to catch up with the West Side Highway where the NY Waterway is. I?m not sure how far it was. I couldn't walk very quickly and needed to stop frequently. I tried many times to call home, the office, C****- without success.
I walked north on the walkway, parallel to the West Side Highway. I don't know how many hundred emergency vehicles I saw- they just kept coming. I walked with countless thousands of the living dead. I remember reading accounts of the Hiroshima survivors, as they made their way, bleeding and burned, to the river. I am the living dead, a ghost, walking silently away from the disaster behind me. I recall hearing a strange whooshing noise, and I turned around and watched the first tower vanish in a cloud of dust. I remember saying out loud something to the effect of 'Well, they finally did it, congratulations!' Not very poetic, I must admit.
It turns out that the ferry was the way to go. The NY Waterway was totally overloaded. So much to the point that the floating dock became unstable which caused a minor panic. Fortunately the Circle Line and other tour boats began taking on passengers. I managed to get on the second ferry out and made our way back over to Lincoln Harbor back over in Weehawken. I didn't care where it went, as long as it was in New Jersey.
Half way out in the river, we had to wait as the other ferries unloaded people. We sat dead in the water. The dust of what was the Twin Towers billowing out in the background. The eerie silence of no airplanes in the air. It was as if the world had died and we were in limbo. All I could do was bow my head and think about the countless individuals who were just killed before my eyes. And of course, how grateful I was to be a little beaten up but alive. I was able to eventually get messages to home and the office, I found out that C**** was OK and everyone was worried to death of course.
I've witnessed The Hindenburg, Pearl Harbor, and Hiroshima in one. It's quite a mind numbing experience. I haven't quite figured out what to feel. I'm not at all a religious man, but today, I prayed for those we lost, and I was thankful for my very life. Certainly, I've managed to clear my schedule- and certainly it puts things into a more realistic perspective.
September 11, 2001 is certainly a date which will live in infamy. I don't think neither I nor this nation will ever be the same
again.
Losing close friends sucks, yes - BUT. (Score:5, Insightful)
my girlfriend had a friend in one of the airplanes that went down. anyone who calls for forgiveness and not retaliation for this act should have to pick one of their friends to be killed and then see how they feel. fucking barbarians.
Do you think innocent people aren't going to die when we retaliate? Do you think innocent people aren't going to die when the terrorists respond to our retaliation?
If our retaliation were to consist of 30 bullets to the heads of all terrorist leaders, thats great - I'm all for it. But I'm very weary of the words I'm already hearing from the pentagon - threats against any nation that harbors terrorists. That doesn't mean we're targeting terrorists, specifically, you know.
The obvious mechanical response to violence is more violence... but violence doesn't solve violence - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Parent
What should be the response to violence? (Score:5, Insightful)
I sent the following letter to my friends:
______________________
Subject: What should be the response to violence?
September 11, 2001
Everyone,
As is often the case, the Economist seems to have the best story: America under Attack [economist.co.uk]
Also see The Economist front page [economist.co.uk]
One of the important points made in the article is that security in U.S. airports and on U.S. airplanes before the bombing was lax compared to the security in Europe.
The Economist article does not mention that the Bush Administration in the U.S. had recently increased its support for the Israeli government and therefore also Israeli violence. The Clinton administration, in contrast, was more careful not to do things which could be interpreted as an incitement to violence.
It is amazing to me that "intelligence" authorities claim that they did not have any idea that there would be an attack like this. Below is a link to an album cover from a band called "The Coup". It is black American "Party Music". The album was sold long before today's bombing. The album cover shows both towers of the World Trade Center in New York in flames:
The Coup -- Party Music, album cover shows the towers burning. [girlieaction.com]
Commentators on three of the largest U.S. TV networks, NBC, CBS, and ABC, have made comments that assume without debate that the U.S. will engage in military action in retaliation. One U.S. senator said on TV that the U.S. response should be comparable to the U.S. response to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor. The U.S. response at the time of Pearl Harbor was to be the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons, causing genetic damage that continued long after Japan became a favored trading partner of the U.S.
Under the stress of conflict, people show how they truly think. It has always annoyed me that people who call themselves Christian often reveal that they don't really believe in the important messages of Christianity, and that they don't even understand those messages.
Basically, Jesus Christ's idea of not returning violence with violence means that we can protect ourselves, but that any response must be the true minimum necessary to achieve security. This is a theory that can be recommended even to the majority of people in the world who are not Christian. The theory seems to fit the facts. The facts seem to be that violence always has severely negative side-effects that overwhelm any effect that might be seen as positive.
This is my reply to the many people who are recommending violence as an answer to violence:
Do you have any thought that violence in retaliation might be a mistake, and might just invite further violence?
The U.S. government (not necessarily the U.S. people) has a history of thinking that violence is the answer. The U.S. killed 2,100,000 people in Vietnam and maybe 150,000 people in Iraq. The U.S. has bombed 14 countries in 30 years, killing a roughly estimated 3,000,000 people.
These people had mothers and fathers, friends and families and wives. Most of the citizens of the U.S. had, and have, no idea of the beliefs of the people that their government killed. Most people in the U.S. cannot even locate the countries the U.S. government bombed on a map of the world.
No matter how violent a country is, or how many people a violent country kills, there is still an inexhaustible supply of people in other countries who also want to engage in violence. Violence can be unending. Do you want that?
No matter how angry you are, there are thousands of people who are more angry than you. Do you want them to attack you?
The Bush administration recently increased U.S. support for the violence of the Israelis. This was sure to make the people being killed by the Israelis unhappy. Do you find it surprising that some of them are motivated to violence also?
There are many countries where people are severely distressed by Israeli violence. Recently there was a TV news story about street violence in which Israelis were killed. The Israeli counter-attack was shown on TV: A helicopter fired rockets at a building, causing huge explosions. It is not important in this instance whether the Israelis are the aggressors. What is important is that a significant number of people think they are the aggressors.
The problems between the Jews and the Arabs have existed for 3,300 years. The Jews say that they are the "chosen people" of God. The Jews say that Arabs are descended from an illegitimate child of their tribal founder, Abraham, and a slave girl.
It is not difficult to understand the thoughts of the Arabs. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live next to a group of people who claim that they are superior, and that Arabs are inferior. It is not difficult to understand that it is annoying to live near people who claim that you are a descendent of a bastard and that God doesn't like you as much.
It is also not difficult to understand that the constant claims of the Jews of superiority over everyone else (including people of European descent like me) is mentally de-centering to Arabs who happen to be psychologically conflicted. Mentally de-centered people engage in violence. It's that simple.
Does the U.S. really have a place in a dispute that began 3,100 years before the founding of the country? How many people here really understand this dispute? What percentage of the citizens of the U.S. can even find Israel on a map of the world? I think the percentage is low.
I find the arrogance of my Jewish friends annoying, too. However, there are many differences between myself and the terrorists. I am less conflicted. I am better educated. It doesn't matter to me what other people have been saying for thousands of years; I don't believe Jews actually are superior. I don't live in an area where I am at risk of being killed by Israelis. I am not Arab, so I am not the target of the strongest claims of Jews that they are superior.
Violence is caused by mentally de-centered people. Being violent makes mentally de-centered people even more mentally de-centered. That's why violence is not a good answer to violence. Prevention is a good answer. Better understanding is a good answer. Being charitable long before any problems begin occurring is a good answer. But violence is not a good answer to violence.
Regards,
Michael Jennings
Parent
Re:entropy# rm /bin/laden (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Coincidence? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Almost a witness (Score:4, Informative)
They couldn't have known... I imagine the hijackers either used knives, or surprise and martial arts training. All they had to do is get in the cockpit, and kill the pilots (handily strapped into the seats there), which a trained person could do in a matter of seconds. Then lock the door, and fly into the building. A few passengers might see them go in to the cockpit, and they might be scared, but they couldn't know their bodies were a projectile destined to collapse the WTC.
My condolances to all who had friends and family perish today.
--Bob
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Re:President's speech at 8.30 (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong. He said it all:
"We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them."
He doesn't need to speak, just act.
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