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Announcing Slashdot Subscriptions

Posted by CmdrTaco on Fri Mar 01, 2002 11:15 AM
from the dropping-a-few-bucks-in-the-guitar-case dept.
For some time now we have been developing a unique subscription system that we hope will make our users and advertisers happy. Please hit the link below to read an explanation about how the system works, and why it works that way. Also you will learn what a subscription will give you, and what our future plans are for it.Update: 03/01 16:38 GMT by Hemos : A lot of people are asking about the only Paypal option. In answer to everyone: Yes, we are aware of the problems with PayPal.. And, yes, we're currently working on other solutions - read the full copy below, as Rob already states that.

To understand why the system works like it does, you need to first understand that Slashdot is about to start accepting new ad formats. The large ads that you see on many other sites are coming here. We really don't have an option: these are what advertisers want, and if we don't provide them, we won't be around much longer. But we want to give you an option to see Slashdot without these ads. Second, you need to understand that Slashdot readers fall into a variety of types, and charging the same flat fee just isn't possible.

Slashdot subscriptions will essentially let you buy a thousand pages to be viewed without banner ads. And you will have some flexibility to decide what types of pages (Comments, Articles, The Homepage) you want ads removed from, and what types of pages you just want to see the ads.

The rates are currently set at $5 per 1000 pages. To put this into perspective, $20 (typical magazine subscription) will be enough pages for 82% of our readers to view Slashdot without ads for a year. Another 15% will need to spend $5 a month to accomplish the same thing. 3% of our readers would need to spend more than $5 a month- but they could choose to see ads on comments and in almost every case, still pay around $5 a month. (As an aside, it's also worth noting that more than half of all comment posters fall into this 3%)

We realize that this system is more complex, but Slashdot has a third of a million readers per day with different reading habits, and this is the best way to accomodate everyone fairly.

Currently we only accept payment via paypal. It was simply easy and fast. We intend to offer other options as time permits and readers request.

Eventually we intend to offer additional features to subscribers. Exactly what those plums are remains to be decided: Access to the rejected submissions bin? A 'Gold Star' in your comments header? Karma? (I think that would be hilarious) We really don't know. We'll decide and implement what makes sense as we have time to do it.

We are doing our best to learn from the mistakes made by other sites that have started charging for subscriptions. We won't create subscriber only features that cost more to maintain than they generate. But we do need support from you if we are to continue. So anyway, here's that link again if you forgot it ;)

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  • PayPal? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by the phantom (107624) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:20AM (#3090620) Homepage
    I have no problem with a subscription based /. (so long as it can still be got for free). I would pay $5 to see ad-free /. I might even pay more. We'll see how long 1000 pages lasts. However, I do not like doing business with PayPal. Please, ditch PayPal and give me an alternative!
  • Karma (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cansecofan22 (62618) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:21AM (#3090634) Homepage
    I think you should reward the people that have high karma by droping the rates, say someone with above a 30 gets $1 off the $5 rate, 40+ gets $2 and if you are maxed out at 50 you should have it for $3 off. That way you can reward the people that really use your site and are not just trolls.

    Just My $.02
    • Re:Karma (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gorgon (12965) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:27AM (#3090746) Homepage Journal
      Rewarding people with high karma with lower rates would be insane. I can't imagine how bad the karma whoring wouls get. There are enough trolls palying the oscillating karma game already, let's not give them another reason to play.
    • Re:Karma (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 01 2002, @11:44AM (#3090983)
      Just My $.02

      Don't you mean 'Just My 4 pages'?
  • Disappointing.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sudog (101964) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:21AM (#3090636) Homepage
    The subscription model is permeating everywhere. It's sad, and disappointing to have to choose to pay a small fee for the hundreds of websites I visit (and fork out literally hundreds upon hundreds of dollars) or to have to sit here and view large obnoxious ads.

    Gee, I wonder what I'll do?

    Let's try browsing with graphics turned off. *click* Ahh.. better.
  • by 2Flower (216318) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:21AM (#3090637) Homepage

    I'm not sure about this -- not that I refuse to pay, since I understand the web won't survive on a free-for-all basis forever. What I don't like is the fact that you pay for a number of pageviews, not for a period of time or some other flat rate.

    Flat rate pricing has two advantages: simplicity, and comfort. It's simple to say 'Okay, no ads for a year for $x.' No need to count the pages you visit, or wonder if reloads count, or if changing the threshold settings to go from 500 posts to 15 is going to count as an add-free counter item.

    Comfort, because I hate nervously watching a meter deplete and trying to optimize my web viewing habits in order to make sure I don't run out. When you say 82% of folks are covered... don't forget that this site caters to the hardcore sorts that participate the most and are likely to fall into the 18% that have to worry. I've never counted my page views, so I can't even tell if I fit that 18%.

    And all things considered, I'd rather browse with javascript off and image loading off than worry about depleting my ad-free views. It's less hassle. Which means less profit for you, but that's free market in action... maybe when you add those value-added feature you're thinking about we'll be getting somewhere.

  • While I love spending my time at work browsing slashdot, and I want to continue to do so, I highly doubt I will pay for it. This doesn't mean I won't continue to browse slashdot, just that I will use more bandwidth by viewing all of the "large ads" that will soon(?) appeard.

    Remember folks, this isn't a mandatory service, you only pay if you want to avoid the ads. At least that's what I understand from Taco's article

  • But we do need support from you if we are to continue.

    Never forget that all of us who post intelligently are supporting you, by giving you free content. That is, after all, why people read /.

    I can get tech news anywhere. The commentary (yes, you have to filter for trolls, flamebait, and stupidity, but that applies just as much to any major newspaper's op-ed page) is what makes the site worthwhile.


  • What is a page? Each time I load www.slashdot.com? What happens if I load it, go read a link it points too then come back to it again?

    Please provide more detail on how this scheme works
  • by erasmus_ (119185) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:22AM (#3090654)
    I can already see thousands of "free everything" advocates typing angrily away at their keyboards. Running a popular site costs money, and most sites are realizing that ads are not supported. I have come to accept subscriptions as a normal part of better sites these days, although I only actually subscribe to a few of them. As useful as Slashdot is, it'll probably be well worth the while.

    Also keep in mind that unlike many subscription sites, Slashdot is not talking about premium content for major articles (like Salon or IGN), only little bonuses for subscribers, which is fair enough. I'll wait until the ads actually start appearing to make up my mind, but let's not flame Slashdot for coming in line with the almost defacto practice that today's Internet economy demands.
  • by Prop (4645) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:22AM (#3090663) Homepage

    I can see paying X dollars to surf without ads. A simple flat rate.

    But of I have to start thinking "should I hit reload and waste a page view", it will make using Slashdot very awkward.

    Time to install junkbuster

  • by dlek (324832) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:23AM (#3090678)
    Subscriptions are fine, I can face reality, but I have one request: please don't let subscriptions affect posting in any way. If there's anything humanity's learned in the past century, it's that having money doesn't make you smarter. So getting +1 or a gold star on your post just cos you hate ads or love Slashdot enough doesn't make your views more worthwhile, and I don't think I'd stick around in a place where ideas aren't judged purely on their content.

    I think what might come of this is a tighter ship splintering off into smaller, private Slashdot sites. For example, not to slag all the people who put thought into their posts, but a private Slashdot just including my friends and others by introduction would be great for me--less traffic, so I could actually read all the posts, and less noise, so I would bother.

    Just a few random thoughts... I appreciate what Slashdot has been and hope it doesn't lose its shine.

  • by daviddennis (10926) <david@amazing.com> on Friday March 01 2002, @11:26AM (#3090712) Homepage
    The people who run Slashdot are human, just like us, and need money, just like us. It does cost big bucks to put something like this together, and make sure it runs reliably. (I'm sure some long-time users are going to laugh at me for claiming that it does, but - well - it has been for some months now, and they obviously spent a lot doing it).

    And I think the subscription model is actually fair - what it looks like they are doing is, effectively, telling us to run our own personal ads on Slashdot - that is, we're buying their unsold ad inventory and using it to remove ads..

    Here's an idea: Subscribers could be allowed to create their own main page out of the accepted and rejected submissions, so they could run their own weblog within Slashdot with their own submissions always approved. Might be a nice ego boost.

    Anyway, I certainly want to see Slashdot continue; I'm surprised at all the negative comments. You want to get paid, I want to get paid, and surely Rob et al likewise want to get paid.

    It's just how the world goes 'round. It was artfully concealed for a long time ... but it's still how the world goes round.

    D
  • by thesolo (131008) <slap@fighttheriaa.org> on Friday March 01 2002, @11:26AM (#3090719) Homepage
    ...is that under this model, those who contribute to slashdot the most, and make the site what it is, are forced to pay the most.

    I think there should possibly be a "positive-discussion" discount, where if you post modded-up comments, you get more allowed page views. After all, you are helping the /. community.

    I see the need for the system, I know you guys need to stay open, and I do understand that people like myself use up a lot of bandwidth on here, but I personally would really like to see some sort of reward for positively contributing to the site.
  • by Multiple Sanchez (16336) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:26AM (#3090723)
    What kind of customer support will slashdot offer? What happens when there's a DOS attack or a slashbug and I can't access the site when I need it? With traditional publications, I have someone's ear to chew when the periodical isn't delivered as promised. What kind of assurances can slashdot give me that I'll get something for my money?
  • page views (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BryceH (263331) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:26AM (#3090726) Homepage
    you must know how many pages users view. why not put that number in the _Your Info_ section on the _User Info_ page so that people can make informed decisions.
  • by ArticulateArne (139558) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:26AM (#3090732)
    My question is, if people start subscribing, would this potentially make ad space on the pages less desirable for the advertisers? Those who subscribe will be those who care enough to spend the money, who have the money to spend (not that $5 is going to kill anybody), and who bother to spend it. If a lot of people subscribe, will the advertisers be left showing ads to people who can't / don't want to spend money? Or are the advertisers going for raw product-recognition building? It would be interesting to see the click-through and purchasing statistics before and after subscriptions, and see what impact it has on the actual effectiveness of the ads.
  • Okay guys. If you're really the libertarian, open source, _fair_use_ folks you claim to be, then make Slashdot the most wildly successful, profitable, FOR FEE site on the net.

    You can't tell me you life hasn't been changed (for better or worse) by these guys. $5 a month is a _pittance_. You can't buy LUNCH for $5.

    _MY_ 'checks in the mail'
  • Ethical Question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kallahar (227430) <kallahar@quickwired.com> on Friday March 01 2002, @11:34AM (#3090836) Homepage
    Now, I am faced with an ethical question. For over a year I have been using WebWasher to filter out all the ads from the internet (it catches over 99% of them, including popups and cnet style big-ass-in-your-face ads).

    Now, slashdot offers a way for me to support their site, but at the same time tells me that their ads are shifting to annoy-ware. So, do I just continue to block the ads, or try a free site or whatever, or do I pay slashdot?

    While people think the internet is free, it isn't. SOMEONE pays. In this case, it's the company that controls slashdot. I value having this site up on the net, and I value all the time and effort that has gone into keeping everything running and happy.

    I've decided, I'll keep blocking with webwasher but I'll also donate my $5. Think about it, $5 for something you check twice a day is worth the cost of a single lunch.

    P.S. I'd love to see some recognition to people who donate though, a little star would be cool and discourage AC's :)
  • by RembrandtX (240864) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:34AM (#3090837) Homepage Journal
    Why does eveyone whine about having to acutally PAY for something ? How many people here are professionals, and how many are starving college kids ? [And why are some of the professionals ACTING like starving college kids?]

    sieriously though .. $5 isnt a lot of money. Hell. thats going without my daily Star-Crack(tm) coffee addiction once a month. Hell ! its only 1/2 a pinball and i replace like 1 of those a month!

    For something that adds value .. cool. I mean .. i read /. almost daily ..so ..

    My big fear is what its going to do to the 'constructive' user.

    Its not going to scare away trolls .. they don't spend a lot of time on /. It not gonna scare the casual reader .. the only people i *do* see it bothering are the people 40+ karma ... who post alot, and are actually providing content for free.

    I mean .. people come here just as much for the commentary as the articles (and in the case of John Katz or the current report on the newest star wars trailer that is 2 seconds longer than the last one .. maybe MORE for the comments than the articles.)

    If a large number of 'interesting' posters stop posting as much .. is /. gonna get 'dumb-ed down' ?
  • by Micah (278) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:35AM (#3090857) Homepage Journal
    mod_gzip works wonders on Slash based sites, so I have no idea why they don't use it here.

    The typical Slash home page is about 50K or more. mod_gzip literally gets it down to less than 6K!

    It would literally cut their bandwidth costs by more than half!

    Of course, they may need another server or two, but it would pay for itself quickly.
  • by Rupert (28001) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:41AM (#3090939) Homepage Journal
    "Comments are owned by the Poster."

    And the comments are what make /. worth reading.

    Something feels wrong here. I know it costs a lot of money to run /.. I know we don't have a right to the forum that Taco et al are providing for us. We post our thoughts here freely, and get back more ideas than we give, also for free. And if ads, subscriptions or whatever are needed to cover the costs, so be it.

    I think three main things are behind my unease. One is that my cheese is being moved. Secondly, VA/OSDN are for-profit. If subscriptions are successful, and they get more than they need, will the subscriptions be extended? Or will Taco, Hemos, ESR & Larry Augustin pocket the money? Thirdly, the posters are being asked to pay more than the lurkers. Hello? The people that make the site what it is have to pay more than those who merely use it? That seems wrong. If I could trade in 25 of my 50 karma for a hundred page views I think I would. Then I could keep posting witty and insightful comments, and /. would remain a great site.
  • by MikeCamel (6264) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:51AM (#3091092) Homepage
    I'd like to suggest that moderation and meta-moderation pages are free. If not, you immediately remove a significant reason for bothering to moderate or meta-moderation. I tend to spend a few minutes a day moderation each day - say 250 days a year. Use up 1/4 of my pages? I don't think so!

    If you keep these two functions free, then we can maintain the value added by the community, and people will continue to contribute, because they fill feel that they are benefiting. We currently avoid the tragedy of the commons, because we can all contribute, and all benefit - let's not lose that.

    If we want to be even more sophisticated, how about allowing people to trade in a certain amount of karma for a certain number of pages? Maybe 10 karma points = $5? That would encourage people to contribute more intelligently, and add more value.
  • And so it goes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rogerborg (306625) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:56AM (#3091158) Homepage

    Does this sound familiar?

    • Welcome to our free site! We have a zillion readers, and we'll figure out a way to make money soon!
    • Sorry, we had to put adverts on, but the site is still free. We're now on two zillion readers, we must be able to make money soon!
    • Please click on our adverts to help support this free site! With three zillion readers, if only 1% of you do this, we'll be rich!
    • Damn, none of you bastards clicked through. We're going to have to put on huge adverts, because for some bizarre reason, really annoying adverts pay more. But we've got four zillion readers now, so if only 1% of you agree to pay just a tiny amount in lieu of adverts, we'll be insanely rich!
    • Hello? Is anyone out there? (tumbleweed)

    I love Slashdot, I really do, and I know this was inevitable. But it's sad, because it indicates that Slashdot has burned the last of the venture capital and has now slipped into the realms of desparate self delusion.

    Please understand that this isn't a troll. I truly want Slashdot to survive, but I can't help but think that the people who will pay up tomorrow are the same people who are already clicking through today. There's no new revenue stream here, there's just a deparate gamble that the ads can get bigger faster than the readership goes elsewhere. There's no evidence to show that this happens. We're fickle bastards, us net users.

    Before you mod me or retort, please understand one thing: I'm not talking about you. You are one of the good guys, as evidenced by your finger hovering over the "Moderate" or the "Submit" button. You care about Slashdot. You're one of the ones contributing, one of the ones who will stay after the ads (or the missing images from blocked hosts) take up half the screen. But you're not the problem. The problem are the quarter of a million casual viewers who turn up, get served a small banner or two, then wander off to Tom's Hardware or The Register. And I'm not saying bigger ads will drive them away overnight, just that the announcement of bigger ads mean that Slashdot needs to make more money... and they simply won't make it from the vast majority of casual users. They need to make it from a small hardcore minority, from the posters and the responders and the modders, from you and me.

    And much as I love Slashdot, I don't want to end paying for (guesstimate) 0.02% of it. Do you? :(

  • by nellardo (68657) on Friday March 01 2002, @12:17PM (#3091436) Homepage Journal
    In the interest of not selling us a "pig in a poke," why not let users see their own usage statistics? Before they risk their money with PayPal? Even a simple "You view X pages a month/week/day" would be helpful for people to know how much they're going to have to dish out.
  • Text Ads (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gnovos (447128) <gnovos@chipped . n et> on Friday March 01 2002, @12:22PM (#3091511) Homepage Journal
    To understand why the system works like it does, you need to first understand that Slashdot is about to start accepting new ad formats. The large ads that you see on many other sites are coming here. We really don't have an option: these are what advertisers want, and if we don't provide them, we won't be around much longer. But we want to give you an option to see Slashdot without these ads. Second, you need to understand that Slashdot readers fall into a variety of types, and charging the same flat fee just isn't possible.

    If advertisers would prefer that you post stories about thier products because "that's what the want" would you do it? I should hope not! Give the advertisers a smack across the head and tell them: "We will put text ads, you know, the kind that annoy no one and actually provide enough information for people to click on. The kind that Google uses to stay in business AND keep it's integrity."

    NOTE TO SLASHDOT: BIG ADS DO NOT WORK! In fact, they actually do the opposite, which will make your advetisers even MORE desperate, and foolishly request even bigger ads! Use small, text based ads. They work!

  • by prototype (242023) <bsimser@shaw.ca> on Friday March 01 2002, @12:26PM (#3091557) Homepage
    This is typical of having a large site, offering it for free, yada, yada, yada. Always happens and we've been seeing it happen for a few months now. Seeing it happen on Slashdot is just something that was going to happen as it will everywhere.

    However there are two problems to the subscription gig. First there's a huge issue with page views vs page count vs whatever. I can configure my threshold and viewing preferences so that any story I want to read, and complete comments, shows in one pass saving me a page hit but we all know that by the time you get to the bottom of the page and reload it, they'll be 10-100 new comments added and this can go on for several hours (depending on how popular the subject is). Also pages like this one where I'm entering my comment and will preview it and then it gets added, do all those count? I think you guys clearly need to define what is and what isn't counted.

    However I don't believe that charging by the page is reasonable for a site like this. You get 300,000+ users so asking for even 10% of them to pay means a return of about $600,000 a year. You've been spinning along for quite some time now without having anyone foot the bill so why is now any different? The gravy train has run out. OSDN execs are saying "We want to make some ROI on this Slashdot thing". And 600K a year can't pay for the hardware? I'm no expert and I don't have the numbers for this site, but I seriously doubt 600K a year wouldn't cover the hardware, bandwidth and staff costs.

    liB
  • Well, we all know the answer to that one now, don't we? It seems everyone seems to be forgetting that Slashdot has ads right now. They're just going to get a little bigger, but content and the free nature of Slashdot isn't changing. However, if you REALLY hate ads, you can pay $5 and get rid of 1,000 of them. Everyone that keeps suggesting $5 for a year seems to forget that they would probably be losing money on that (I'm guessing $5 is the going rate for 1,000 ads on Slashdot, so you guys break even on the deal), which doesn't help anyone out.

    I'm not going to pay the money for removing the ads, since after growing up reading newspapers, magazines, watching TV, and seeing billboards everywhere, I'm used to them, and don't pay attention to them anymore. If they start to run popup or pop-under ads, however, then I stop visiting. Don't complain about them giving you the option (not forcing it like Salon) to pay to get rid of ads, though, it's a nice option to have.

    Can someone answer me a simple question, though: If ads are blackholed thru my OpenBSD NAT, do those still count as hits for Slashdot? I'm pretty sure they do, but I've never gotten a real answer from someone.
  • Garbage Bin? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KarmaBitch (562896) on Friday March 01 2002, @01:23PM (#3092222)
    Access to the rejected submissions bin? Yes, please -- with the opportunity to moderate or rank them, so the most interesting rejected submissions float to the top. If a story gets a very positive ranking, maybe the editorial staff can give it a second thought. And if it goes the way of the troll, nobody is the worse for it
    • The usual spots for me...
      Newsforge.org
      theregister.co.uk
      securityf ocus.com
      ibm.com/developer
      codingstyle.com

    • by fleener (140714) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:38AM (#3090893)
      Exactly. For every piece of information being sold, there is someone in the world willing to give it to you for free. You just have to find that person.

      About 3/4ths of the slashdot articles that interest me I have already seen on blogs 1-7 days earlier. Some of this is due to the review period of submitted links, and part of it is that sometimes a link is submitted multiple times before it is accepted. Regardless, if slashdot closed tomorrow, I would still get my nerd news from other sources. What's special about slashdot is that I can post comments and get modded down. If slashdot dies, blame it on the people who still want information to be free. We will always exist in small groups and keep the information flowing.
    • by ackthpt (218170) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:44AM (#3090975) Homepage Journal
      Did it look like this:

      A payment of $5.00 has been sent to Open Source Development Network (OSDN).

      I suggest that for an, ahem, subscriber I could get past some of the following real annoyances:

      Lameness filter

      Posting timer (e.g. Slow down cowboy...)

      Get a bigger submission box, hey, it's the 00's, we have higher res than 640x480, ok? Make this box bigger or at least parameter driven

      Allow 2 and 3 letter words (mostly acronyms) in the Search. Geez, this is tech stuff and it's mostly acronyums anyway: RAM DVD CD HP AMD, etc.

    • Re:Subscribtions (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CmdrTaco (1) <malda@@@slashdot...org> on Friday March 01 2002, @11:49AM (#3091054) Homepage Journal
      As I said, I'd like to do filtering based on subscriptions (thats what I mean by the Gold Star for posting). Operating under the assumption that a troll wouldn't want to give us his credit card number (half of them post through anonymizing proxy servers, so I seriously doubt that they'll be giving us their CC num ;)

      It'd be a user option of course, just like all the other filters. You can set a +1 to subscribers. I dunno if everyone would like that, but I would think it would be interesting to see at least.

    • Futile (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheLoneCabbage (323135) on Friday March 01 2002, @11:51AM (#3091093) Homepage

      ok:
      Let's say you get past robot security.
      Let's say slashdot leaves you alone.
      Let's say freeslashdot.org is popular.

      Well... freeslashdot is going to get SLAMMED by hits just like slashdot... and not long after freeslashdot is either going to be shut down for not paying their bandwidth fees, or it wont be free for much longer.

      Besides, Slashdot has been good to us. The least you can do is look at some extra ad's to keep them in buisness. (or better yet you COULD subscribe)

    • by Mr Jekler (520288) on Friday March 01 2002, @12:46PM (#3091781)
      Honestly, ads, no ads, subscription. It's all the same to me. I read slashdot because it's convenient, as soon as it stops being convenient, I'll move on. That's the way the internet works. I'm sure everyone remembers won.net, ten.net, heat.net for gaming sites. They were convenient at the time they were conceived. Enter, play games. Then they start making things complex, you need to download our ad-driven client first, you need to find the link to the program in the sea of ad banners, you need to subscribe to our newsletter to be a member and get spam along with our newsletter...

      And then they die. It's simple really, people follow the path of least resistance. Slashdot, for the most part, doesn't create the articles, they just collect links to them. The announcement makes it sound like you have two options "Pony up the dough or be hassled with full-page ads", there's a third hidden option not mentioned "Go elsewhere." Everyone will default to option three.

      The ad-driven internet isn't a viable model for information delivery anyway. The paltry 40 years that commercials have run TV makes it seem like selling your time and space is the best option. That's simply not true, it's channels like HBO that grew vastly beyond the other stations. It's because their model is pay-only, but you're not paying for a compilation of what's already available on every other station. You're paying for exclusive content, HBO Original Series and Movies that are box-office quality (The Jack Bull anyone? The Sopranos?) and unavailable to you if you don't fork out the cash.

      If I'm going to pay for it as if it were a magazine, I would expect the same quality of articles, reviews, and applications that I'd find in National Geographic, rather than trickled-down, patchwork, mentions of articles I could find if I subscribed to another magazine.

      Harsh? Maybe, but when you put a price tag on crap, you don't get gold, it just gets renamed as "fertilizer".
    • by fmaxwell (249001) on Friday March 01 2002, @01:03PM (#3091989) Homepage Journal
      Let me preface this by saying that I am not opposed to paying for online content. I subscribe to one $30/year online newsletter and pay DSLReports for access to their line monitoring tools.

      I am bothered by this Slashdot subscription scheme for several reasons:

      1. The readers are providing the vast majority of stories, comments, links, and information. They say that our comments belong to us, but Jon Katz publishes them in for-profit books and now Slashdot wants to profit by selling access to these comments.

      2. The "editors" of Slashdot put out stories filled with grammatical, factual, and spelling errors. They want to be profitable like Time or Newsweek but they don't want to be bothered with doing the work.

      3. Those people who contribute to Slashdot's success with insighful, thought-provoking comments will be offered the same subscription rate as the "fp!" and "*BSD is dying" trolls.

      3a. In fact, rather than rewarding those who contribute the most (those with high karmas), they joke about the idea of selling karma points. Then any idiot with a few bucks could publish his comments at +2.

      If some guy is a leech that just reads the articles & comments while contributing nothing, let him pay. But don't charge someone who consistently provides valuable articles and/or comments the same subscription rate.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 01 2002, @12:02PM (#3091258)
        Realize where the true value lies at Slashdot. Its not with the web address, servers and storage but with the community that it has spawned. Slashdot itself is a commodity. If the community as a whole or in part decided to move itself to another site, your $20 investment would be worthless.
        • This really is a great comment. It reminds me of back when I used to use CuSeeMe. When it was popular there were lots of people and reflectors. Then Mplayer came along and a lot of the CuSeeMe community left. CuSeeMe became a ghost town. After Mplayer went games only everybody split between Paltalk and SeeSaw. Online communities are very fickle. All it takes is for something better (cheaper, easier, faster) to come along and there will be a mass exodus.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 01 2002, @12:14PM (#3091399)
        I've been targeted right out of the market.

        I've had it. I can't take any more advertising. Television, radio, magazines, billboards, even the Internet for Christ's sake. Everywhere. Why do they keep targeting me? I never did anything to them. I don't even buy anything! They're wasting their time! Fast food makes me feel like shit, soft drinks make me dizzy, candy is disgusting, chips make my stomach hurt, I don't smoke, and any band that has ever been advertised anywhere sucks unequivocally. I eat tortillas and vegetables, I drink tap water. I ride my $40 bike for entertainment. I buy a new pair of Dickies at the army navy store every year and I get all my other clothes at Costco in 3-packs. My car works fine, I use my Internet connection for long distance, I've had the same boots for three years and re-sole them when they wear out. As far as booze goes, well, as long as it's wet.......

        So why do they keep attacking me? Why are they filling every square inch of every available space in my life? Above urinals, on concert tickets, underneath the ice at hockey games, on blimps, in video games, as props in movies, plugs in rap songs, on shitty Web Sites (No, I will not visit your motherfucking sponsor. If you're not in it for the love, and you can't figure out any better way to pay for your site than by slapping some ugly, corrupted banner across the top of your pathetic work, then fucking close up shop, kill yourself, and leave the Web to non-polluters). They'd advertise on the backs of my eyelids if they could get away with it, and I can't hack it anymore. They win. I lose. They succeeded. I failed. Like Brian Wilson, I just wasn't built for these times. I fold. Here are all my cards. Keep the pot, keep my ante, keep the goddamn jacket on the back of my chair for all I care, I can get another at Costco. I'll be out in the parking lot getting drunk and yelling at cute girls because I can no longer stand the taste of tentacles. Marketing has poisoned everything worthwhile under the sun, so I'm giving it all up. Everything.

        But the way I figure it, there's no real loss. I've seen all of the episodes of the Simpsons 200 times each. Most of the good writing was done 100 years ago. I haven't listened to FM radio in years. I could play all my records beginning to end alphabetically and I'd be 76 years old when I got to the Zeni Geva. Online culture is a fucking yawn, only good for buying stuffed goats on Ebay and getting cracked copies of $1000 software. Movies always end up at the 99 cent video store across the street eventually, and you can fast forward through those commercials. My girlie's cute and the corner bar has Pabst on tap. What else matters?

        True, by shutting myself off to everything, I'm probably limiting my future potential as a 'community building' or 'bleeding edge' cog in someone's nightmarish vision of Internet profitability, but fuck, a simple read through my writing should've cured that anyway (Note to potential employers: The bidding starts at $120,000 a year with full dental).

        So I'm out. No more.

        I just feel bad for those of you I'm leaving behind. You'll be wearing your Slave Labor Nikes, sweating under a Third World Vest, listening to Everqueer or Fratboy Slim, your hair styled stupidly with gasoline and aborted pig placentas, trying to choke down a Double Meat Fuck Splattered Cow Testicles On The Slaughterhouse Floor Pus Coagulated Lactacious Secretion Yellow Dye #2 Deluxe. Man, will you be looking dumb. It makes me want to cry. You poor, oversugared demographic you. You're filling your apartments, your bodies, and your minds with useless junk. You stagger under your own weight, throwing money in random directions until you collapse and die, buried by a bunch of people who you failed to create meaningful human bonds with, who forget about you on the way home from the funeral.

        Maybe I'm just oversensitive, but I actually feel those fingers reaching out at me - cute little girl fingers, feeling at my face like a bind man, pulling at the loose threads all over my brain, trying to find a sensitive one, one that tweaks me. Desires to be successful, attractive to the opposite sex, spiritually satiated, or conversely, the fears of disease, dismemberment, of being outcast, of repressed homosexual desires. Herd mentality as dictated by herd mentality. A gas mask of soiled wool, worn in a steaming shower of chlorinated pond water. A lumbering culture created by profit motive, existing as window dressing to disguise the brutal cynicism of the architects, the brassy checks and balances of accountants bleating commands to the flunky tastemakers on the production line. The subversion of anything subverting. The conversion of something dangerous into something profitable. The gutting of the lion and the championing of the taxidermist. And the puffy vests, my god, the puffy vests........

        I give it one more shot.

        I hit that little "on" button, and immediately this little red dot appears on my forehead. I feel the barrel rising on the other side of the glass as some powersuited executive attempts to get me in his sights. His scope is the best money can buy, but my nausea and skittishness mark me as difficult prey. I make a sprawling leap over a pile of books, spilling a glass of wine and sending my cats scattering. The TV takes a shot at me. It misses, but after the smoke clears, there's a shimmering can of Pepsi on the coffee table, seductively held by a well manicured (but severed) hand. Then the Taco Bell dog is outside, scratching at my window, singing "That's Amore", the secret code that alerts Col. Sanders and Ronald McDonald to get their tumor inducing grease guns at the ready. "We have a resistor! Alert Cap'n Crunch and Mrs. Butterworth. Tell Hogan to pull that Subaru around!" And then, as the entire posse of 1-800-COLLECT goons attempt to joke their way through the front door, a helmeted uberyouth does a backflip on rollerblades against the window, almost crushing the Taco dog, thankfully getting tangled in the iron jungle of security bars designed for such a moment. The severed Pepsi hand launches itself across the room onto the stereo, turns it to HOTROCK 99.5 FM and starts dancing suggestively on the turntable. Warm, gooey songs ooze from the speakers, blurring the lines between commercial and product, product and art. The walls are running with honey, blood, and Gatorade. Limp Bizkit tries to sign me up for the Rap Metal MasterCard, but is outvolumed by a chorus of creepy NY Gap models, dead eyed and Children of the Damned style, singing nostalgic 80s songs with cool detachment, trying to sell me vests. Close inspection reveals UPC codes on the backs of their beautiful necks and a legion of bulimic girls behind them, mascara mixing with puke on ten thousand toilet bowls. Budweiser frogs are crawling out of the toilet bowls. A one-eyed, mutilated Asian girl holds a pair of new Levi's against the window with a thin, purple arm and starts screeching "It's a Small World After All" at the top of her lungs. Magic, The Old Navy dog, is sniffing butts with the Taco Bell dog, who had since bit the Asian girl on the leg and now yelling something about Gordidas. A waifish beauty suddenly appears on my bed, vying for my attention, trying to talk me into a new car, her hand slowly unbuttoning her blouse, batting her doe-ishly brown eyes, "C'mon Mark. It's only a test drive. No one ever has to know."

        Realizing my one escape, I yank my battered wallet out of my back pocket and pull out a twenty dollar bill. The entire scene freezes. All eyes are transfixed to the damp, smelly piece of paper. Andrew Jackson snickers and you can almost smell the cannibalized Indian on his breath. A miraculous cross breeze flows through my apartment, and I let the money go. It catches an upward draft, a hot air thermal, and is gone out the window.

        And then, something even stranger happens. The spokespeople, animals, models, body parts, and corporate whores all disappear in a anti-climactic 'puff' of yellow smoke, leaving a slight smell of perfumed intestine twisting through the air. My twenty freezes in mid flight about thirty feet above the ground. A helicopter drops out of the sky, and lowers a rope down to the cash. A man in a business suit slides down the rope, commando style, and captures the money in his mouth, gives a contemptuous snort, mumbling something like "sucker" under his breath. And then the helicopter is gone, vanishing somewhere behind the radio towers spiking the top of Queen Anne Hill. Everything is quiet again.

        I didn't just turn that TV off. I unplugged the motherfucker.
      • That's crap. There is absolutely NO REASON, moral or otherwise, why you should force yourself to look at ads. The value of advertising is based on the statistics of how many people see them. We absolutely should NOT tailor our behavior to please their statistics. That's their problem.

        I get up from television ads or mute them all the time. I block most ads on the internet through a proxy. Even when I don't, I have learned to mentally ignore them, hasn't everyone at this point? I see the ad, but not what it's for. This isn't television or a magazine, and it's much easier to scroll the add off the screen or focus only on one part of the screen.

        Choosing to point your eyeballs toward the ad doesn't actually generate any revenue for anyone, and pointing your eyeballs elsewhere doesn't take anything from anyone. It's a little game the corps have invented that works well for TV and print, but is unproven for the internet. In fact for some people, I bet all advertising is ineffective.

        Maintain your preferred behavior and let THEM figure out how to profit from it.

        I much prefer to pay for access to sites, than to see ads, anyway, and I'm glad /. is doing this, it makes a hell of a lot of sense.

        This is just a pet peeve, people always popping up in these discussions claiming that by not looking at ads, you are somehow depriving someone of something, and it drives me nuts!

          • by jgerman (106518) on Friday March 01 2002, @12:11PM (#3091368)
            It doesn't matter either way, if we don't click they don't get results either. Impressions for performance like they used to be. So ad blocking or not, if I'm not going to click, I'm not going to clik whether I see the ad or not. So I might as well not see the ads. I'd like to know what advertisers are going to target the /. crowd. A good portion of the banners here are allready well targetted (I will view and sometimes click the current banners), but going to larger ads to try and force clicks on a (arguably) more tech saavy user base, I smell disaster.
          • by Sc00ter (99550) on Friday March 01 2002, @12:15PM (#3091410) Homepage
            I worked for an online advertising place. They usually don't do click-thru.. they do number of impressions (or views). Click-thru pays shit. They're trying to market online ads like billboards.. you can't really measure click-thru on billboards, but it's the impression, or exposure that they're looking for.

            Sure, if they got NO clickthrus it would be odd, but sales, and stats are done mostly by impressions.

          • Maybe he enjoys the banter on the topics at hand. That's what Slashdot has to offer: as a clipping service, it is unreliable, often late, incomplete, and usually without a lot of depth. As a place to chat about news stories with a geek slant, and often get more background in the process, it's fun.

            And things being fun are not correlated with how much one is willing to pay for them. I enjoy playing frisbee in the park. A lot. I go often to the park to play frisbee - I could do it for hours. But the fact that I do it for hours doesn't translate into my willingness to pay, say, a dollar an hour for the "right" to play frisbee, or a willingness to "pay" for my frisbee rights by playing in a field lined with billboards if I can help it.

            I frankly think I have every right to block ads if they become to invasive (I don't block Slashdot banner ads, because 1. they often are for products that are at least interesting and 2. they aren't invasive), just as I have a right to browse with a text-browser, a browser that kills pop-ups or doesn't enable them, or to use a braille- or voice- browser if I'm blind. Slashdot's - or anyone's - business model is *not my responsibility.*

            Incidentally, I *did* pay for a premier service at Salon because I wanted the added content, not to get rid of the ads. I am very much *not* interested in a rate-based fee based on how many pages I load - this way lies madness.