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RIAA Sues Audiogalaxy
Posted by
michael
on Fri May 24, 2002 10:30 PM
from the no-quarter-asked-or-given dept.
from the no-quarter-asked-or-given dept.
Frizzled writes "The RIAA has struck again, this time filing suit against Audiogalaxy's "Satellite" file sharing program. (Nevermind that Satellite is loaded with spy-ware ... good riddance)." News.com has a story. The RIAA's press release links to their complaint.
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Control vs. Cash (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that they would rather have the cash.
Its more that they don't understand either the technology (which is probably unstoppable), or their own customers.
In particular, the major music labels don't seem to understand that:
1) Some people will pay money anyway for CD's if they like them enough.
2) Alot more people would buy the music if they sold them directly over the internet.
I personally believe that their sales would rocket up even at the same profit margins if they just dropped the cost of producing and distributing the CD's from the price of an internet download. This might only be a few dollars cheaper than what you pay to a major music store for the CD.
So what I think is happening here is the equivalent of what happened to encyclopedia salesmen with encarta. They were so locked in to a large existing sales network with high production costs that they could not bring themselves to cannibalise their own networks to maintain sales. This nearly destroyed the companies (such as britannica) before they finally did a U turn. People were happy to buy an inferior (M$ Encarta - not that it was bad, just less information) product because it was so much cheaper, and almost as good.
The analogy here of technology hitting an established high premium sales network is pretty tight. And I believe that the outcome will be the same. Eventually the networks will recognise this, and sell music tracks online for alot less than they currently do. They will prosper under this arrangement, although much of their distribution network will have to die in the process.
For the record, I can see the same thing ultimately happening with video, and a similar process of technological change is occuring with cameras and film. Our home computers will take on all of these tasks. We will still shop, but for production tools (printers, cameras) and 'raw' materials (blank CD's, DVD's high quality paper). Companies that get on this bandwagon will do well (ask Kodak), and those that pretend it isn't happening will go towards the wall (ask britannica!).My 2c worthMichael
Re:Control vs. Cash (Score:2, Interesting)
If they just dropped the price of a regular CD to a reasonable amount, I would be happy to buy it. As long as it's not any of that "music" that they whore on TRL.
Re:Control vs. Cash (Score:2, Insightful)
That is very, very true. And they won't be selling JUST to geeks, either. I know a guy, in his 50s, who uses his computer for e-mail, web browsing, word processing, and music. He's signed up for some music service over the internet where he pays about $1/song. He LOVES it. And he's a "joe sixpack", only a little older.
Re:Control vs. Cash (Score:2)
Control = Cash (Score:2)
The major players within the music industry largely control that industry. They have spent decades honing the art of the industry. You can be sure control is a part of the business plan.
As long as that control is maintained, new business plans can be attempted with little risk. Loose control and everything is at risk. The old business plans go out the window. And the new ones could cost the entire business unit and everyone's job.
Sure the Big Five (and any record company, for that matter) want the cash. But it is their current deathgrip on control of the system that is the biggest assurance that cash is going to come in. It doesn't matter how much cash a new business model might promise. A business model is a risk and if that business model involves giving up control, it is too much a risk no matter what the potential payoff.
Unless, of course, an external force causes the industry to loose their current level of control despite their wishes.
Re:Control vs. Cash (Score:2)
Sorry, watch out for the space in that last URL
By the way, what's the correct way to insert a URL with slashdot?
Re:Control vs. Cash (Score:2)
hmm. I cant believe over the past few years, I never thought about that part. It's interesting that I never considered that all the record stores will die along with it.
UNLESS they get smart. They should become types of "down the street" recording places for anyone who wants to make a CD (and mp3s)... and subsequently, a library of music for consumers. I think they have a chance if they arent dumb about the digital revolution like the RIAA is. (and could still be called "record stores" if you will. Except prounounced "record" as the verb, not the noun.. heh)
This whole thing is totally crazy. Dangit.. we have front row seats to the best years this world will ever see. The Digital Revolution. Are you having fun yet?
Producing CDs that lock up computers... in 2002? you have GOT to be kidding me. Launching lawsuits left right and centre? fire your lawyers and hire some 20-something pot-smoking audiophiles for crying out loud. They'll show you how to sell music.
Get the assholes that mass produce bootleg CDS and profit off them, OK... but leave our personal use alone dammit.
I won't be buying any CDs after Dec. 31. Because when I buy blank CDs to burn artists' songs onto myself, they are going to be getting 77 cents per CD I buy [www.cpcc.ca]! Even if they're full of media or data I have created! As far as I'm concerned, I'm paying them. I've had it. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you can't feed youself playing your guitar, then you're in the wrong profession. Get a fscking job.
Just for the record... I've recently finished my econ major, and I've been doing some research/investigation in the past few months into the future of the RIAA for shits and giggles (I might turn it into a thesis I havent decided yet). They are going to experience a major market failure. I'm going to go ahead and be an assface and predict that within the next decade, they will go down. The question is, will they take the rest of the entertainment industry down with them?
Also Sues (non-audio) Galaxy (Score:4, Funny)
PDF size (Score:2, Funny)
Damn it - software is innocent (Score:5, Interesting)
And Sears should be held responsiable for all illegal breaking&entering done with a craftsman hammer. And there has already been the Wincherster case. And Buck should be held liable for all knife crimes, and rap for all crimes of insanity, etc...
What's next - RIAA against Berkeley for creating FTP cause they found an FTP mp3 site? RIAA against DARPA for creating the Internet?
Re:Damn it - software is innocent (Score:2)
Good Riddance? (Score:3, Interesting)
It doesn't matter how much spyware or other nasty stuff AudioGalaxy comes with, they are still on "our side" when it comes to the p2p issue as a whole. You'd better hope they win, though they probably won't.
Oh well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let them fight to the death! (Score:3, Insightful)
--Rick
A first year computer programmer could do better (Score:2, Funny)
I suppose this is as opposed to how a first year fine arts student could defeat cd copy protection with a felt tip pen.
Riaa suit of the week (Score:4, Insightful)
They need to make better CDs (Score:2, Insightful)
RIAA sues the galaxy (Score:5, Funny)
I like AudioGalaxy (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I like AudioGalaxy (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I like AudioGalaxy (Score:2)
Big deal (Score:3, Interesting)
I still use KazaaLite in tandem with LimeWire, but LimeWire is becoming more and more my primary option. Not to mention, its RMS-friendly, since it uses the GNU GPL.
That of course doesn't justify the RIAA/MPAA's actions. Centralized services for distribution should not be held responsible for the content being distributed, not any more than ISP's should have to micro-monitor their users. File-sharing services can be used for many many purposes, most of which have nothing to do with sharing copyrighted works. Since the pattern seems to be like Wack-a-mole -- where RIAA/MPAA sue one file-sharing service, then another pops up -- perhaps eventually we'll get a SANE ruling from a judge who isn't paid for and owned by big money.
Sue Proof? (Score:2)
Now knowing what is going to happen with Audiogalaxy [audiogalaxy.com] ... (the tea leaves haven't been wrong yet) ...
Is there ANY software that cannot be sued into oblivion? I know that GNUtella is open source ... but couldn't that be sued as well?
The main reason that Napster got it so bad, was that the directory listings were centrallized. Audiogalaxy, KaZaA, and others changed this, so that there is no centrallized database, but the people who write the software are being sued ...
About the only way to be "judgement proof" in this day and age would to release software (with or without source) anonymously.
Would this be possible ... ???
is it me... (Score:2, Insightful)
ISPs have the power (Score:3, Insightful)
The best way to kill file-sharing -- along with the baby in the bathwater (i.e. VOIP, gaming, and other legit uses of broadband) -- would be if the MegaISPs (who don't have to play nice by sharing their lines) started capping and/or metering bandwidth at obscene overage rates to make serving anything extremely cost prohibitive.
For added "protection" they could also start blocking any traffic that doesn't look like "good consumer" behavior. e.g: "Dear Joe Suspect: Even though you paid our insane rates for the 1.4Gigs of bandwidth you used last week, we noticed that it was all encrypted. This simply won't do. Consider yourself on notice buster!"
Good thing wireless can't be monopolized...
--
My friends.... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, they must o' thought that is quite a joke, And it got a lot of laughs from a' lots of folk, It seems I've downloaded my whole life through. Some napster clone would die and I'd get red And some p2p'd openup and they'rd songs to multithread I tell ya, my life had nothing to do with their "revenue"
Well, I grew up quick and I grew up l33t, My hacking got hard and my wits got street, I'd roam backdoor to backdoor to hide my name. But I made a vow to the moon and stars That I'd search the databases and systems far And kill that connection before it got too lame
Well, just finished with a shell I had since mid-July And I just kissed my DSL connection bye-bye I just battled a round of security with big blue At an old cybercafe in case they pulled the lud's, There at a table, spewing FUD Sat the dirty, mangy dog that "protected" the RIAA's Revenue
Well, I knew that snake was a lawyer so bad From the way he jumped up and down so mad Cause Kazzaa Lite was installed on every rented PC, no lie.... He was big and bent and gray and old, And I looked at him and my blood ran cold And I said: "How dare you say you protect the rights and reveue of all the bands, they only see a cent or two! All he let out was a "sigh"
That pissed me off and Well, I hit him hard right between the eyes And he went down, but to my surprise, He come up with a lawsuit in hand, and the court date was in early next year But I called right back and marked him the theif, And he forced the conversation into the non-witnessed street Acronym'in and a' cursing, I finally made him leer
I tell ya, I've stolen identities of tougher men But I really can't remember when, He tricked like a mule and presented Pocket PC and filed Another suit as he said I'd pay for this fuss, He went for his digital pen and initialed first, He stood there lookin' at me and I saw him smile.
And he said: "Son, this world is rough And if an Association is gonna make it, their legal gotta be tough And they know you'll never help the Music Monopoly along. One by one we'll take away your songs, and give you enough time to say goodbye We work with the Telco's so you'll pay high And have no choice, our over-priced CD's you'll buy And from those sales the RIAA's goes on strong"
He said: "Now you just fought one hell of a fight And I know you hate me, and you got the right To report me now, and I wouldn't blame you if you do. But ya ought to thank me, before your case is tried, For the l33t circles, and coding skillz in ya eye Cause I'm the son-of-a-bitch that forces you underground when I yell "Sue.'"
I got all choked up and I threw down my palm And I recognized his crooked law, and it was there that I saw That everytime he sue'd it's True. My skillz improve, and my knack gets better Every time I find a P2P that's l33ter, and in the end, even though I think I win, The RIAA gets stats, and make then facts to continue their evil daze... And if I ever have a son, I think I'm gonna teach him better ways... Like buying DVD's from George and software from Bill..
Nah, the RIAA can kiss my ass cause I'll continue to pirate over prized CD's and warez and start to use linux just in spite, and support local artists with all my might,
and maybe after a generation or two...
Their greed'll thin, and freedom will win, And we'll finally, finally, exhaust all their grounds to Sue.
-Yo Grark
*--Would read a lot better without slashdot telling me "Your comment had too few characters per line (currently 34.2)"--*
An Association Named Sue (Score:4, Interesting)
Been pirating from the RIAA since I was ten and three, and I don't think I've missed a single MP3, Just this old hard drive's space to lose,
Now, it isn't just the fact that they sued, it's the stupidest thing they ever did, was to claim that their actions protected revenues.
Well, they must o' thought that is quite a joke, And it got a lot of laughs from a' lots of folk, It seems I've downloaded my whole life through.
Hell, I never even thought of it as wrong, cause I'd buy more CDs after hearing more songs, I tell ya, it had nothing to do with their "revenue"
Well, I grew up quick and I grew up l33t, My hacking got hard and my wits got street, I'd roam backdoor to backdoor to hide my name.
But I made a vow to the moon and stars That I'd search the databases and systems far And kill that connection before it got too lame
Well, just finished with a shell I had since July, I kissed my DSL connection goodbye and I battled a round of security with big blue
At an old cybercafe in case they pulled the lud's, There at a table, spewing FUD Sat the dirty, mangy dog that "protected" the RIAA's Revenue
Well, I knew that snake was a lawyer so bad From the way he jumped up and down so mad cause Kazzaa Lite was installed on every PC, it's true
He was big and bent and gray and old, And I looked at him and my blood ran cold And I said: "If you're defending your bands, how come all the money goes to you?"
I was so pissed off I hit him between the eyes And he went down, but to my surprise, He come up with a lawsuit in his hand
But I called right back and marked him the theif, And he forced the conversation into the non-witnessed street Acronym'in and a' cursing, I made my stand
I tell ya, I've stolen identities of tougher men But I really can't remember when, He tricked like a mule, brought out a Pocket PC and filed
Another suit, he said I'd pay for this fuss, He went for his digital pen and initialed first, He stood there lookin' at me and I saw him smile.
And he said: "Son, this world is rough And if an Association is gonna make it, their legal gotta be tough and you know, to keep the Music Monopoly along.
We'll crush independents until they die, we'll overexpose until you buy and from those sales major labels go on strong"
He said: "Now you just fought one hell of a fight And I know you hate me, and you got the right To report me now, and I wouldn't blame you if you do.
But ya ought to thank me, before your case is tried, For the l33t circles, and coding skillz in ya eye Cause I'm the son-of-a-bitch that forces you underground when I yell "Sue.'"
I got all choked up and I threw down my palm And I recognized his crooked law, and I saw that everytime he sue'd it's true.
My skillz improve, and my knack gets better every time I find a P2P that's l33ter, but in the end, even though I think I win, we all still lose
Cause the RIAA has got control over music, congress and America's soul and if you want to download, sample or even use
any music you've bought and paid for, without fail, you'll be fined and put in jail, all in the name of their goddam revenues
I think about him every time I see, a young coder writing stuff that's free, And if I ever have a son, I think I'm gonna teach him...
to fight the corporations from a legal and political standpoint, so he won't need to hack, and support free music with all his back, and maybe after a generation or two
Their greed'll thin, and freedom will win, sampling songs won't be a sin, and we'll have taken and farmed all their grounds to sue.
Parent
Not An Easy Case? (Score:5, Interesting)
fenn
Re:Not An Easy Case? (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps they're afraid AudioGalaxy is turning RIAA listening folks into indie heads? There's a ton of obscure electronica on AudioGalaxy ready for the taking. Get hooked on that and you'll never be buying a Sony CD again (interestingly enough, btw, even somewhat mainstream electronica, such as Aphex Twin, is banned).
Parent
Not to defend the RIAA (Score:2)
I'm not saying the music industry would implode, highly unlikely, but I understand why they may still be clutching at their "tried and true" ways.
Even if it is outdated.
Why AG? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see how the RIAA can claim, with a straight face, that the copyrighted-song blocking was 'not as good as a first year CS student'. They've done the best you can realistically do with keyword blocking, without blocking others in the crossfire. For example:
The Cars, Drive = blocked.
According to the RIAA, if the band "Drive" releases a song called "Cars", it should be denied. Given the combinations of keywords, you'd be blocking pretty much everything that isn't obscure and unique, like "the Crucifucks", "Tumor Circus", "Cockmonger" or "Republican Buttocks".
They also have some light content-based filtering. I haven't researched this, but I think it goes by the ID3 tag. It seems to be used mostly to combat misspellings. Obviously, the RIAA's example was the worst-case scenario.
They've really done a fair amount of filtering, and enough in the other areas to show they aren't just a napster clone (which wouldn't be a bad thing by my standards). It seems they just want any type of music far away from computers, because it's easier to control than to just come up with cooler ideas and incentive for people to buy. I suppose it's also easier than releasing something better than the pussified swill I hear booming by from people's car radios.
--
PS: both AG for linux, and the other linux version called xsatellite are spyware free. The official AG linux binary is still supported.
Audiogalaxy is spyware free! (Score:5, Informative)
file sharing is effective advertising (Score:5, Informative)
Snipped from the latest bit of news on the weezer [weezer.com] site.
It's anecdotal, I know. But I'd say that the RIAA spends more money on lawyers than the industry loses as a result of file sharing... They should probably cut Audiogalaxy in on the profits rather than sue them.
Cry me a river... (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair most the focus of the segment was mostly about how it prevents smaller labels/artists from getting radio play regardless of how good their music may be, which is a bad thing.
Personally I think its great that the RIAA is taking a stance against this. Lets see, first the RIAA pisses of geeks, then consumers, now they piss off the radio stations, if we get lucky they'll shoot themselves in the foot and piss off the artists and labels too.
New systems can't win (Score:2)
Did anyone use AG back in the day (before RIAA)... (Score:2, Informative)
AG was:
- written/maintained by someone at U of Texas.
- sort of an FTP search engine BUT much better than ftpsearch.ntnu.no
- would list how often an FTP was online (pretty trick back then).
and my personal favorite:
- you had to access it through some hidden directory on a commercial website.
Those were the days. I didn't even care about bandwidth because I could download a few MP2/MP3s simultanously (gotta love campus EtherNet).
Perhaps I am remembering some of this incorrectly as I did drink excessively during undergrad. Would someone confirm this because I'd hate to think it was much cooler than it really was.
Wow. Now they're being just plain stupid. (Score:2, Insightful)
Who's running the show? The Purple Id Frog?
I imagine the RIAA board room conversations are something like this:
Lawyer: "Well, we've defeated Kazaa. All that's really left is a couple of unstable and small programs that are really ineffectual."
RIAA: "WAR! SEX! COOKIES!!!!! [crackfiend.org]"
Lawyer: "What's left to defeat?"
RIAA: "WAR! SEX! COOKIES!!!!! [crackfiend.org]"
Laywer: "Well... there's still audiogalaxy but..."
RIAA: "WAR! SEX! COOKIES!!!!! [crackfiend.org]"
Lawyer: "They've done everything we've asked them to! What're we gonna charge them with?"
RIAA: "WAR! SEX! COOKIES!!!!! [crackfiend.org]"
Lawyer: "I'll get the work order."
I'm on crack. (Score:2)
*sigh*
record labels r dumb (Score:5, Funny)
Like Napster, Audiogalaxy seeks to profit from its [music sharing :)] system by building an extensive user base to attract advertisers and investment dollars.
RIAA Exec #1: Bob, how's our new "file-sharing" service coming along, you know, the one that grants users the right to listen to a song on one computer for 30 minutes a day, all for $9.99 a month, and if you violate the terms of service, the FBI is notified directly?
RIAA Exec #2: *clik clik* Hmm, it's coming along okay Sue, three people have signed up in the past month alone. Not bad but we just can't seem to get volume of users we were predicting.
RIAA Exec #1: Actually one of those was me, and the other two were Hillary. We need to figure out what type of file sharing service people really want. If only there was some kind of "model" or "prototype" we could study. If only we could figure out some way to use the internet to profit from a music sharing system by building an extensive user base to attract advertisers and investment dollars. If only there was some way to do that.
RIAA Exec #2: I have no idea. To be honest I'm not even sure what the internet is, isn't it like a modem? I heard that once. Oh well, it's 1pm already, the work day is over, time to go golfing!
RIAA Exec #1: Good thing, my brain hurts.
source code (Score:2, Interesting)
Open Audiogalaxy? (Score:3, Interesting)
It would also be nice because AG blocked a lot of popular songs from being downloaded, and I'm sure the open servers wouldn't do that.
First amendment ? (Score:2)
Can we use this to our advantadge, say -> get emminem to do a cover of one of the decss songs on his next album? Id love to see the brain freeze at the RIAA ->
support "fist amendment rights of artists" (code word for: we wanna be able to say whatever obsenities kids will pay for -- remember kids, music isn't cool if it dosen't offend your parents)
OR
support draconian legislation that will benefit us in the long term.
Since its been proven the riaa cant think think more then about 30 seconds into the future, they're gonna go for option #1, and Id love to see the RIAA and the MPAA destroy eachother in a battle of the titans:D
The software is innocent (Score:3, Insightful)
The lesson for *any* pure-play tech company (Score:4, Insightful)
Follow Kazaa. Set up a shell company on some Pacific island, and when (not if, when) the Big Lawsuit hits, sell the name and assets, and fold the US operation. Rinse and repeat until there are no US based technology companies left.
Sad, sad situation, but when the [MPA|RIA|BS]A can buy (nearly) any law they like and change the rules of the game whenever they feel like it, the only way to win is not to play in their schoolyard.
Careful what you wish for (Score:5, Insightful)
They came for Napster, and I did not speak up, because I did not use Napster.
They came for Audiogalaxy, and I did not speak up, because it had spyware.
They came for Limewire, and I did not speak up, because I did not like the Java client.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up.
Frivolous suits (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:spyware on linux too? (Score:3, Informative)
[stupid lameness filter wants me to wait 20 seconds before posting]
Re:spyware on linux too? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:But what about the struggling artists... (Score:4, Insightful)
Whoever modded the above as insightful or interesting is an illiterate idiot.
Read the rest of the thread. Even on 4+, there's at least two comments talking about AudioGalaxy's promotion and review system for independant artists. The parent post seems to rather conveniently ignore this. If your friend wants to make money off music, maybe she should try contacting them and see what they can do. Or try one of the other sites that does stuff like this. (Allowing artists to sell albums directly to fans)
Parent
Re:But what about the struggling artists... (Score:5, Interesting)
After all if there are alternatives to the kind of contracts the big media companies push who is going to sign up with the big boys ?
Parent