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Slashdot over IPv6
Posted by
chrisd
on Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:08 AM
from the links-you-can't-follow dept.
from the links-you-can't-follow dept.
fuzzel writes "Even though Slashdot has run a number of articles about IPv6 (1|2|3) it apparently isn't reachable over IPv6 directly.
But for the people that do already have IPv6 they can use http://slashdot.org.sixxs.org and they will be automaticaly gatewayed. This trick works for most sites by simply appending .sixxs.org to the domain part of a url, eg http://www.google.com.sixxs.org, the gateway will the rewrite url's to have it appended automatically so that everything goes over IPv6. Full information is available on http://ipv6gate.sixxs.net. Oh and yes if you don't have IPv6, those domains under sixxs.org won't work :)"
Related Stories
[+]
Technology: Google Over IPv6 Coming Soon 264 comments
fuzzel writes "Today Google announced Google over IPv6 where ISPs can sign up their DNS nameservers so that their users will get access to an almost fully IPv6-enabled Google, including http://www.google.com, images and maps, etc., just like in IPv4. Without this only http://ipv6.google.com is available, but then you go to IPv4 for most services.
So, start kicking your ISPs to support IPv6 too, and let them sign up.
Check this list of ISPs that already do native IPv6 to your doorstep.
The question that now remains is: when will Slashdot follow?"
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That's weird.. (Score:2)
Re:That's weird.. (Score:2)
You learn something new every day.
Dont worry (Score:2)
Question: But are their enough /. users on Ipv6 to /. the network.
Answer: Dosentmatter buddy, even though I dont have v6, I tried clicking on it twice just to see what happens.
Tomorow is a weekend. So the network will be in a good mood.
Re:Dont worry (Score:2)
Answer: Dosentmatter buddy, even though I dont have v6, I tried clicking on it twice just to see what happens.
Dont underestimate the power of a stubborn slashdotter, if i have learned anything from time here, it's that you must click every link several times to try and sneak a lucky page load in.
I probably clicked the slashdot and google V6 links 3 or 4 times a piece thinking there was no possible way slashdot or google had been
either I don't have IPv6, or.. (Score:2, Funny)
I don't know.
Oh great... (Score:5, Funny)
I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:5, Informative)
IPv6...
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See also:
IPv6: The Promise, The Problems, The Protocol [extremetech.com]
RDC 2373 [rfc-editor.org]
Parent
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:2)
Now, the first thing I thought of when I read that was: "What happens when someone finds out a that a major vendor can't handle it when the 16-bit length is 0 but there is no "jumbo payload" in the packet?"
Okay, perhaps not the best example, but are they looking to try to avoid (as much as possible) spots in the protocol that might in the future be exploited? 'Cause I'm sure lots of people here know better than I many ways to abuse IPv4...
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Just a question on this one. I do agree that there will be enough IP addresses that there is no need to use special local addresses. Bit i actually find it very useful. It makes it easy to see where I am located, is it behind NAT, behind a firewall or just through a proxy ?. Currenty I can figure some of this out just by looking at my IP address, but without local IP subnets, things will get more confusing.
And furthermore, i'd say the "end of NAT" is a bit too much. I find it very useful to use a NAT gateway/firewall and put insecure clients behind that. It reduces the need to think secure on the local network. I can for instance export my fileserver data rw onto 192.168 without much consern. Wouldn't wanna do that if they were all "real" IP's.
IPv6 is great and it will allow those who DONT want to be behind NAT to get a "real" IP address, but its not the end of NAT.
Parent
The dark lining (Score:3, Insightful)
So does IPv4 -- it's just that no one actually *uses* them.
The main thing that I *really* don't like about IPv6 is that, while it isn't a mandated part of the protocol, it seems that the overwhelming direction being pushed is to make the last 48 bits of your address your MAC address. Which *really* has nasty privacy implications -- 'slike a universal cookie, visible to everyone, that anyone can see (not just http servers).
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:2, Informative)
For one thing I've understood that IPv6 will make routing possible without keeping track crazy amounts of addresses in huge routing tables. IPv& addresses are hierachical, and in a simplified sense work something like this:
country.state.city.area.house.etc.etc...
NOTE: this is not the actual layout... I don't remember the details. But the point is a backbone router only needs to look at the start of the address, and then send the packet "in the right direction" so to speak. The same thing applies longer down the chain.
Would someone who is more enlightened care to explain this in an official manner?
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, this is done with IPv4 now as well. Originally, IPv4 was split into Class A,B, and C networks. Class A networks were larger blocks of addresses than Class B and C. Class A networks were allocated pretty quickly. So all there are left are Class C network blocks.
If an organization gets a Class C network block, they have to use stuff like NAT and subnetting to uniquley identify each machine in there network and make routing manageable.
These Class C network blocks are dished out geographically now. But the Class A network blocks that were dished out earlier are not being utilized well, because organizations don't have enough machines to fill them out.
That's a pretty shitty explanation. Partly because I forget the number of bits in an IPv4 address that identifies the network and the number that identifies a host. So I can't come up with a good example. But my IPv4 address looks like so: 142.179.xxx.xxx (I'm not gonna give you my exact address)
And my subnet mask: 255.255.248.0
So my (Class C) network is (probably) identified by the first 21 bits. (If my conversion is correct).
Parent
Stop the madness! (Score:5, Informative)
For starters, classful routing on the Internet has gone the way of the Dinosaurs, and good riddance. CIDR saw to that (Classless Inter-Domain Routing), and when BGPv4 became the standard, all was right in the world (Because it implemented CIDR, by carrying Netmask along with the route entries).
In casual conversation today, we still use terms like Class B, or Class C address space, but they don't refer to the actual Classful network boundaries of yore. Today, when someone refers to a Class C address space, they simply mean a 24-bit address space. Likewise, a Class B means a 16-bit (/16) address space.
You say your netmask is 255.255.248.0. This represents a larger address space than a Class C, which has a mask of 255.255.255.0 (or /24).
Your address space is the aggregate of 8 Class C networks. Your network is configured to utilize the first and second octets, and the first 5 bits of the third octet as the network address, leaving the remaining 3 bits of the third octet, and the entire fourth octet as the host address.
That represents a network segment consisting of up to 2048 hosts (Ok... 2046 since you toss the first and last as the network address and the broadcast address.).
In short, your network engineering staff ought to be shot, because damn, that's a really big subnet. There's just no good reason to have that many hosts on a segment.
It's possible that you guys don't have anywhere near that many hosts, but if you do, without even looking, I can tell you that your network is a bit of a show. I hope you have your highly-loaded servers on their own segment, because the number of broadcasts must be tremendous. Even in a switched environment, those broadcasts must be propegated everywhere, and every machine in the network has to stop briefly to examine each and every one.
Your organization should look at some Layer-3 segmentation...
Parent
Re:I'll guess I'll admit it.. (Score:5, Informative)
The only solution available to provide Internet access to the hosts on the LAN was to use a private non routable subnet and to masquerade it behind the edge router. NAT also allowed some of these hosts to expose services to the outside world. But this solution has a major drawback : it breaks end to end connectivity and thus complicates the offering of many services that the Internet was meant for. Used like that, NAT is an evil kludge.
IPv6 provides a way out. There certainly are many other advantages in the use of IPv6, but end to end connectivity for the masses is what could have the deepest impact. Think about is : when every single workstation has a routable IPv6 address, everyone will have the potential to serve. This is is what the Internet was meant to be, and actually was in the early days.
Parent
Slashdotting... (Score:3, Informative)
IPv6 Slashdotting? (Score:4, Funny)
If not, then shame on us.
the ironies (Score:5, Funny)
so maybe we will finally be able to slashdot slashdot, or at least the IPv6 gateway,
BUT maybe there are not enough slashdotters using IPv6 to be able to connect to the IPv6 slashdot in order to slashdot slashdot's IPv6 gateway,
and... [head explodes]
the rewrite url's what? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think I get the general idea, but it took me some time. Funny how a couple of spelling mistakes can lead to a quite obfuscated sentence. Anyway, here is what I now think (after checking the site: boggled at that sentence in vain!
Damn. (Score:2)
Re:Damn. (Score:5, Informative)
Use a tunnel broker. It lets you tunnel ipv6 connections over ipv4 to another endpoint. Two of the most popular are Freenet6 [freenet6.net] and Hurricane Electric [he.net]. Hurricane Electric requires a static ipv4 IP, but Freenet6 works with dynamic IPs.
Parent
Re:Damn. (Score:2)
Disclaimer: i help run ipng.org.uk, a UK tunnel broker
IPv6 - Chicken and egg ? - no! (Score:3, Insightful)
This is just like HDTV, yes, it's better, cooler, has nifty features, but the old thing does most of the job for much less money/effort.
With IP this situation 'might' (not necessarily 'will') change with the vanishing IP address space, but I am convinved it's perfectly safe to wait till we get there.
If any ISP really thinks he needs v6 he will just install it. Why should I (as a user) try to convince any ISP to use v6. It's just nothing that matters to me. (Multicast?? ha!) I can tell you, that I (as an ISP) don't even know why I should convince anybody. This whole discussion is probably sponsored by cisco's PR department.
Cheers.
Re:IPv6 - Chicken and egg ? - no! (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:IPv6 - Chicken and egg ? - no! (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point. Also, I see no reason why we should bother researching renewable forms of energy until we actually run out of oil. After all, the perfect time to solve a problem is when our infrastructure depends on the solution - solving a problem before it's a catastrophe is just wasted effort.
Parent
Damn Irresponsible (Score:2, Funny)
Tunnel Brokers (Score:5, Informative)
These work by creating a ipv6 GIF tunnel over ipv4, to a server which has either further tunnels to the 6bone or native connectivity. Once you have this setup (and its preety easy to do on Linux, Windows, and very easy to do on the BSDs) then any ipv6 traffic can be routed automatically. This way you dopnt need to use a gateway, and you can use pretty much any app over ipv6, including ftp, ssh, www, email etc.
Disclaimer: I help run ipng.org.uk, which is a UK tunnel broker, who gives you a
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:2)
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:2)
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:4, Interesting)
For a complete matrix of ipv6 ranges right down to a
Parent
Re: Tunnel Brokers (Score:5, Funny)
That is just so stupid and typical. Why oh why do we have to put up with this recyling of old and broken technologies, and patent issues to boot? You would have thought that if they are making a fresh start with a new so-called modern protocol, they would at least use a new and modern specification such as, let's say, PNG? Duh!!!!
Parent
US Alternative Tunnel Broker (Score:5, Informative)
>who gives you a
Great! And for those of us in the States (especially California), Hurricane Electric offers a free tunnel broker [tunnelbroker.net] with these characteristics that I would recommend [slashdot.org].I have been using it for more than 6 months, and find it quite stable. You do lose your /64 if HE can't ping you for 24 hours, but a new one is only a mouse click away. And what kind of geek would leave their computer inaccessible for that long anyway? ;). Initial activation does take a day or so.
-Fyodor
Concerned about your network security? Try the free Nmap Security Scanner [insecure.org]
Parent
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:2)
Great. Every goddamn atom in your computer has its own bloody IP address. Tell me again why this is important?
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:5, Funny)
You're going to need a way to address them aren't you?
Parent
Re:Tunnel Brokers (Score:3, Informative)
thats 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 distinct ips
Great. Every goddamn atom in your computer has its own bloody IP address. Tell me again why this is important?
It means that every subnetwork in your site can have the same size network. By convention, end customers ("subscribers" is the ipv6 term) are assigned a
To put it in more familiar IPv4 terms, imagine if there were so many IP addresses available that even the smallest sites could be given a class B. Now instead of having to subnet your network into efficiently sized CIDR blocks (eg, the lab upstairs gets 10.123.5.224/28, the billing dept gets 10.123.5.128/27, tech supports dept gets 10.123.5.32/29), you can just say everyone gets a class C (eg, the lab upstairs gets 10.123.5.x, the billing dept gets 10.123.6.x, tech supports dept gets 10.123.7.x). Much easier for humans to work with that way.
To put in in IPv6 terms again, every site gets assigned a
There's also the autoconfiguration thing (host addresses can be assigned based on their NIC hardware addresses, since the IPv6 subnet space is bigger than ethernet address space)...
Re: Tunnel Brokers (Score:3, Informative)
Why the Weird Gateway? (Score:5, Interesting)
My limited understanding of IPv6 is that you can deploy v6 addresses locally, and advertise them globally via DNS using AAAA records. You can then talk over the larger Internet using a 6-over-4 tunnel.
Assuming this is correct, why doesn't Slashdot simply advertise an AAAA record, then accept connections through a 6-over-4 tunnel (or natively, if their bandwidth provider can speak it)? What are the technical considerations preventing this from working?
Schwab
'Have' IPv6??? (Score:4, Insightful)
What exactly does it take to 'have' IPv6? What stuff neds to be upgraded? Application software? OS? Router? Does your ISP need to 'have' or 'support' it? It also seems a hell of a lot more complex to type in an IPv6 address than an IPv4 one, but I guess that only matters if you're not using a domain. Then again, with so many IP addresses available with IPv6 this may be the case, as there won't be nearly enough domains to hold everyone's IP!
I'm sorry that this will sound ignorant, but if I'm asking the question and I'm not exactly dumb, it's no wonder all the AOLers aren't using IPv6! I don't even know how you use it, and there are barely any servers using it either, no?
Re:'Have' IPv6??? (Score:5, Informative)
OS and applications. Many operating systems already do support IPv6, as do many applications (Mozilla does, at least, as does many IRC clients because there's distinct benefits.)
Router/ISP level support is Nice To Have, but there are tunneling servers [freenet6.net] that enable IPv4 sites to talk IPv6.
As far as setup woes go, my setup was as easy as 'apt-get install freenet6' =)
Parent
Ipv6 is great (Score:5, Informative)
IPv6 is like the Chicken and Egg story (Score:3, Interesting)
*) IPv6 is ready to deploy, however not much ISP's are supporting IPv6.
*) ISP's are not supporting IPv6 because there are no customers who uses it.
*) Customers aren't using IPv6 because there are no applications who uses it.
*) Software developers aren't creating software because nobody uses it.
As you can see there's a loop. The main thing is to break this loop and this project is a step in the good direction.
I'd like to encourage all ISP's to actively implement and promote IPv6. And you as 'consumer' can also promote IPv6, play with it even when you ISP doesn't support IPv6 yet (with IPv6 Tunnels for example).
Just my 2 cents.
MacOS X and IPv6 and other OSs (Score:5, Informative)
en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MUL
inet6 fe80::230:65ff:fed6:b164%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4
inet 192.168.1.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255
ether 00:30:64:d6:b2:64
media: autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>) status: active
From what I can tell MS-Windows is still a little behind, as can be seen from this page [microsoft.com]. As for other OSs I am not aware of their support status. If you do know, a reply to this post would be handy to most.
Re:MacOS X and IPv6 and other OSs (Score:3, Interesting)
There is an experimental IPv6 stack for Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 (which will not install on 2 or 3), but there will never ever ever in a million billion years be a production-quality stack for Windows 2000, because of issues with people not spending $200 on XP.
XP comes with a development IPv6 stack included on the CD, and Service Pack 1 comes with a production-quality IPv6 stack. Windows 2003 will include a production-quality stack as well, as will CE XP and
As much as I disapprove of MS for not bothering to support IPv6 in 2k, and despite knowing why they did it, I still encourage people to upgrade if the choice arises, if for no other reason than you won't have to upgrade again later to support IPv6.
Oh, and write your ISPs.
--Dan
Modified URL format (Score:3, Interesting)
Gateways/caches should _NOT_ change the user agent (Score:5, Insightful)
SixXS-IPv6Gate/1.0 (IPv6 Gateway; http://ipv6gate.sixxs.net; info@sixxs.net)
Bad! Many sites go through painstaking effort to be compable with all sorts of user agents, giving plain HTML when one is not recognized. By re-writing the user agent these people prevent this magic. Not good. Instead it should add it's own key/value pair, much like SQUID or other cache/gateway.
Re:IPv6 today? (Score:4, Interesting)
Disclaimer: i help run ipng.org.uk, a UK tunnel broker.
Parent
Re:IPv6 today? (Score:4, Informative)
An IPv6 address is 128 bits long. Of these 128 bits, 64 bits are reserved for the host part. Usually it's a somewhat mangled version of your ethernet MAC address (a router will broadcast a prefix, and client machines will simply append the mangled version of their MAC to the prefix -- this is called autoconfiguration).
This means you need a /64 subnet on each segment.
Usually providers will assign you a /48 addressspace, giving you roughly enough space for 65000 subnets.
Of course these addresses are routable: you don't need NAT and your machines are reachable from the internet.
Parent
Re:IPv6 today? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:IPv6 Quick links.. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent