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Modular Home Network PVR at CeBIT

Posted by CowboyNeal on Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:37 PM
from the different-kinds-of-tv-networks dept.
Media Television Toys
Mackus Daddius writes "This ought to give the MPAA a conniption: 'The Lancaster system is modular, consisting of a TV tuner (analogue or digital), a hard disk module and an interface module that ties the system together and connects to your TV. The modules are connected using standard Ethernet connections, giving you flexibility over where the modules are placed and used. Multiple storage and interface modules can be used, increasing the capacity of the system and allowing multiple TVs to be used for watching programmes.' From the ZDNet UK article and here's an article with pics."
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  • Does it speak TCP/IP? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo (153816) <martin.espinoza@gmail.com> on Saturday March 15 2003, @12:47PM (#5519868) Homepage Journal
    And does it properly respect the appropriate ethernet specifications? In other words, if I depend on my network to operate my house, will it be safe to plug this thing into it? I would hope the answer is yes, but of course, you never know. I would assume (we all know where that leads, though) that TCP/IP is the only thing that would make sense since they mention the possibility of extending it over wireless networks, but perhaps they are planning a proprietary scheme for that as well? Anyway, maybe someone could shed some light on this, because I'm too busy to go look it up right now :(
    • I think it would be very stupid of them to not use standard TCP/IP. Of course, that's no gurnatee that they will speak a protocol that your computer would understand, but for routing etc., it should work just fine, according to the article

      Kjella
    • You probably meant to ask "does it speek Ethernet?"
      since that is what will determin if it messes your network os not. as long as thay stick to ethernet, you are probably safe.
      (However there are no guranties about leaving any bandwidth for your other uses)
      I would assume the answer is, that the cheapest way to add networking capabilities to a device is to use off-the-shelf componants (probably one of the cheap realteck controllers) - which would mean that they will respect the ethernet protocol.
      • All that means is that they would have to make it a requirement that the device(s) be plugged into a switched 100mb network so that the units dont adversly affect your other networked devices much...

    • Re:Does it speak TCP/IP? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by batboy78 (255178) on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:40PM (#5520121) Homepage
      I built my own PVR with all the fixins'. Radeon All in WOnder 8500DV, 240GB of storage, 48X CD-Burner. And I have it directly connected to my 55in HD widescreen TV. I never miss an episode of Smallville or Monster Garage. Its connected to my router so I have access to all the shows from anywhere I choose. Watch them in the bathroom on one of the laptops, while I'm getting ready for bed, or download them to a friends house to watch them over there. I still think building your own PRV (computer) is the best bet.

      And I did it all for way cheaper then the current manufactures are selling their Windwos Media Center PCs. Can you believe they want 2,000 or more for some models.

    • It might actually be better if it used a standard but non-routable protocol. That would make it *much* more difficult for someone to 0wnz your PVR from the internet.

      After all, how many of us are using routers to subdivide our home network??

      Oh, I forgot this is /. Here's a better question: How many of us *need* to use routers to subdivide our home network?
    • Considering they say it can use storage on any computer in the house, it must speak TCP, at least on some of the modules.

  • modular, but not COTS ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timothy (36799) on Saturday March 15 2003, @12:51PM (#5519890) Homepage Journal
    I like that they've broken up the components (network connection / tuner / storage), but I'd be more optimistic about actually gaining from commodity pricing of storage etc. more if:

    - the storage format was non-proprietary and not crippled (can anyone even tell from these releases what storage format they're using?)

    - there were some high-speed ports (firewire / USB2) that would work with currently available external hard drives. On sale, it's not unreasonable to find firewire external drives in the range of a dollar per gigabyte; considering that this comes with an 80 gig drive, that would be a good upgrade.Ethernet connection is nice -- but only if that actually allows access, and isn't just a friendly-looking port :)

    - Better yet (though more unlikely) built in software for archiving via an external CD burner.

    I picture instead that they'd like you to buy ever more boxes that say "Lancaster" on the side if you need more storage. I'd love to be wrong about that! :)

    timothy

  • Nice, but TOO expensive... (Score:5, Informative)

    by stienman (51024) <adavis&ubasics,com> on Saturday March 15 2003, @12:53PM (#5519900) Homepage Journal
    At 244 British pounds per module (check out the article with the pictures) you're shelling out nearly $400[US] per module.

    The simplest system would be just the receiver and TV interface, for $800. Timeshifting would be enabled for $1200.

    One can build the same system with a Hauppage PVR card (hardware MPEG encoder) for $400 (w/o software). It wouldn't be as quiet or small, but you could get the same modularity with multiple systems. Since it has hardware mpeg encoding, a cheap fanless system, such as the Via epox boards, should be able to handle one card and hard drive, and still be able to decode one stream at the same time. This would be about the same saize as all the modules put together, in one quiet, cheap box.

    -Adam
    • They probably also have a monthly subscription. Thats the thing that ticks me off about the current commercial PVRs.
    • Well, FWIW, UK-US costs for stuff like this are usually about parity and it wouldn't surprise me to see this on sale in the US for £250-300. Partly it's due to VAT (17.5%), partly it seems that UK gets shafted in prices.
    • actually, the Hauppage WinTV-PVR 250 can be had for $150 dollars, and it is, in a number of ways, superior to the Hauppage WinTV-PVR - for one, the WinTV-PVR doesn't have, and will never have WDM drivers, according to hauppage.

      and while the WinTV-PVR's do have their problems, most of them are because of Hauppage's software... even for the PVR-250, you can get better software out there then what Hauppage uses.

      for example, you can get SageTV [freytechnologies.com].

      personally, i think the best alternative to this would be a R

      • Re:Hauppage == junk. (Score:5, Informative)

        by stienman (51024) <adavis&ubasics,com> on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:08PM (#5519986) Homepage Journal
        I've happily been using their win-pvr 250 on my winxp computer for nearly a year.

        I would not characterize it as a solid piece of software, but restarting the app is all that's needed when it starts recording with no one logged in. It records fine if you leave it alone, but when you log in while it's recording it slows to 10-20 frames per second. This is an issue a few times a month, so not a big deal. I suspect it's related to winxp, since the software isn't a service and has to log in as the user.

        The only other issue is that once in awhile the mpeg shows coding artifacts (small flipped chunks occasionally show up). This requires a reboot. I haven't spent the time figuring out how to duplicate it, as it only happens once a month or less.

        Considering the bad experiences I've had with the ATI all in wonder cards, this is a dream. All my shows are recorded, and I can take them with my on my laptop or save them to my server for later consumption.

        YMMV.

        -Adam
        • It records fine if you leave it alone, but when you log in while it's recording it slows to 10-20 frames per second.

          That's an MSWin problem, not the card.

          With the (still in alpha) open source linux driver, a capture(cat /dev/video0 > file.mpg) takes 2% cpu on my PIII/450.

  • Excellent! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xchino (591175) on Saturday March 15 2003, @12:56PM (#5519925)
    This is the reason I roll my own PVR instead of buying a TiVo. I can do anything I want with my PVR, but a TiVo is somewhat crippled, in that respect. Rolling your own PVR can be a fairly big project, requiring some amount of work. The Lancaster seems like it's a step to bridge the gap between the two types. Ease of use, but the power of modularity, expansion, and (maybe?) interoperability between my non-PVR entertainment components. Perhaps instead of upgrading my PVR, I can just upgrade my file server, and get use out of it for both the PVR and any data storgae needs as well.

  • Another alternative : MythTV is free and open (Score:5, Informative)

    by linuxguy (98493) on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:08PM (#5519987)
    The modules are 249pounds. Which translates to about $500. Ouch. You can achieve similar functionality with http://www.mythtv.org [mythtv.org] and EPIA-M boards. I got the EPIA board from Fry's for $139 and this case : http://www.computergate.com/products/item.cfm?prod cd=HDRCM269BR [computergate.com] for $72. The case is so small its hard to believe that its a computer case.

    See the mythv web page for more info on what it can do.

    • Er, current exchange rates are about $1.60 to £1, making it nearer $400 per unit. Secondly, US-UK prices are often nearer parity and (as I've posted elsewhere), it wouldn't surprise me to see this on sale in the US for $250-300.
      • I agree that my guess on exchange rate was incorrect. However I will be surprised if and when these modules are offered in the US at the prices you suggest.

        For Slashdot crowd however an open and free system like mythTV is generally more attractive still, as it offers unlimited tweaking and enhancement potential.
        • However I will be surprised if and when these modules are offered in the US at the prices you suggest.

          You be surprised then. A lot of tech companies seem to think that the exchange rate is about US$1=£1.
          For examplce, pricewatch.com tells me you can get a P4 1.5GHz for $110, while pricewatch.co.uk says £103.40 (ex. VAT, actual retail price is that +17.5%) which is $164.82 at current exchance rates (xe.com currency converter.)
    • The EPIA-M board would be great if I had a landline ethernet port anywhere near my TV and stereo. I have an 80 year old house that would make that difficult if not impossible to achieve (plaster walls, where the plaster has fallen off inside and piled at the bottom of the wall. Trying to run cat-5 across a second-floor room through the attic was extremely difficult, I don't even want to try running it the length of the house and down two floors). My only other option then would be wireless; I have a WAP,

  • The Lancaster? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:09PM (#5519990)
    I didn't think the Amish were allowed use networked PVRs. Must be a Mennonite thing.
    • This was the first thing I thought of, being from Pennsyltucky and all. I was going to say it's ironic that this TECHNOLOGICAL device is also the name of a large Amish area in PA. ::grin::

  • Boring! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Usenet Perfomance Ar (657384) on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:18PM (#5520029) Homepage
    We're building a linux based pvr already, ours not only is a pvr, but it decodes all the dishnetwork and expressvu satellite channels. ECM proof, no cam or ird used :) http://www.id-discussions.com advanced Dishnet work discussion thread
  • Maybe not quite to the modular level described, but www.mythtv.org [mythtv.org] can have a front-end decoder box, a back-end encoder somewhere else, each connected by ethernet. Hell, if you wanted, you could share a stand-alone harddrive tower via NFS and whatnot. As long as you have a v4l compatible tuner, you're ready to roll.
  • from http://www.terratec.net/press/pressemit/Lancaster . htm

    TerraTec Electronic Offers a Glimpse of Tomorrow at CeBIT Today

    Lancaster: Networked Entertainment for Every Home

    The magic formula for intelligent home entertainment equipment reads versatility, mobility, and an extensive array of features and functions designed for maximum ease of use. The Nettetal-based multimedia vendor TerraTec Electronic is set to reveal the secret to total entertainment at this year's CeBIT - a multimedia video TV server so
    • I do not think they have this product in production yet. The information is vague and general. I can not get to any information on this from the entree point of the vender's web site. I think the marketing department is trying to create excitement for a product that may be in development.

      That said, I think it will be a good product when it is finally out. I hope it has good file sharing ( NFS? SMB? autoconfig?)
  • Since I can interface it easily with my PC, can I transfer DivX and other digital video files to it? If so, can it play them on the television?

    If this box is capable of doing this it just may be the PVR of choice for me, when I get enough money.
    • If you have a PS2, you're halfway (1/4 ?) there.

      Just get a Sony ethernet adapter for it. And this software [broadq.com] ($$$). Granted, it won't record shows, but it will play your divx, mpg, mp3, etc.

  • ReplayTV has been able to do this since the 4000 (Score:5, Informative)

    by vaylen (566986) on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:46PM (#5520150) Journal
    Share stuff from room to room? Done. Share stuff from PVR to computer? Done. Share stuff with anyone else who can play .mpg files? Done. Why should I have to build my own PVR and hassle with interfacing it with Guide software, when SonicBlue's ReplayTV has been able to do these things since the 4000 series? Some people just like to do things the hard way, I suppose...
    • Sonicblue's also coming out with a DVD player that can play any media on your PC through 802.11. Pretty swank for just $250
    • What this has that Replay doesn't (yet) is direction.

      Yes Replay can do most of what the Lancaster can, and better in some cases, the Lancaster is built with the future in mind. A cheap, consumer future.

      Each Replay has it's own hard drive, it's own tuner, it's own EVERYTHING. All of this is extra hardware past a certain point. A modular system is just flat out more flexible and SHOULD become cheaper with time. Right now the Lancaster is FAR too expensive but has potential to become far cheaper in the end.
    • Share stuff from room to room? Done. Share stuff from PVR to computer? Done. Share stuff with anyone else who can play .mpg files? Done. Why should I have to build my own PVR and hassle with interfacing it with Guide software, when SonicBlue's ReplayTV has been able to do these things since the 4000 series? Some people just like to do things the hard way, I suppose...

      Monthly fee for as long as I want to use the device? Done.

  • I just wonder if it would be possible to use the ethernet connection to dump programs from the hard disk to the PC and re-encode them. As much as I love my PVR (Sky+) I would like to really be able to make quicker than real time archieve. i.e. not have to spool it off to VHS with a loss of quality. Anyone got any ideas?

    Rus

  • This is the future (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IWannaBeAnAC (653701) on Saturday March 15 2003, @01:49PM (#5520165)
    Surely this is the future way that these devices would evolve in a free marketplace. Consider the way that you can build up a stereo system by assembling a cd player, perhaps a tape player, perhaps a DAT player, probably a radio tuner, with an amplifier/mixer and some speakers, and whatever else you want to include. All the connectors are compatible (at worst, with a trivial adaptor), you can mix and match as you see fit, the only limit on the capabilities of the system is the imagination.

    Of course, this does not stop you from purchasing an all-in-one "black box", but it certainly sets the benchmark of functionality that you can expect.

    Contrast this with the MPAA/RIAA/Microsoft view: An "entertainment console" with pervasive DRM, encrypted and incompatible connections between different components, functionality fixed by the manufacturer and not expandable (except perhaps by buying components from the same manufacturer, protected by encryption from compatibility with equipment from another manufacturer).

    Given a free market, which product do you think would be most successful?

  • This is bizarre, last January I released a small program called LANcaster. Proof: http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/62180.html [simtel.net].

    Damn. I should've trademarked the name.

  • With ReplayTV the hard disk module is the interface module and the digitizing module. You can watch anything recorded on one ReplayTV from another over 10/100 ethernet (They use HTTP over TCP/IP for delivery).

    There are lots of flaws with the ReplayTV system but it sounds better than this tripe. 4 different modules all complete computers. Sounds way too expensive to manufacture to be competitively priced and it doesn't sound all that convenient either. Who funds these people?
  • While personal video recorders (PVRs) have been available for a while, this is one of the first systems to look more like consumer electronics than a desktop PC.
    Could someone please tell me how a Tivo, ReplayTV, UltimateTV, or any other PVR on the market looks more like a PC than an electronics consumer device???

    Personally, I'm looking forward to the release of the Digeo Moxi [digeo.com]. This thing is a PVR with a lot of the functionality of this Lancaster product and more - a PVR, DVD player, MP3 jukebox, DOCSIS

  • other things at CeBIT (Score:4, Interesting)

    by yawnmoth (534382) on Saturday March 15 2003, @03:08PM (#5520498)
    cdfreaks.com [cdfreaks.com] has been covering CeBIT for two days, now, and i have to say... there are some really neat stuff being shown at CeBIT!

    Plextor is showing off a new 52x32x52x cd burner, a new DVD burner, and a new version of PlexTools, which apparnetly is due out in the US pretty soon, too! the new version of PlexTools has some pretty cool features, too, including the ability to password protect CD's, to burn 980mb on a 700mb cd (i don't really understand how this works, but oh well), and the ability to make plextor drivers more quiet? i dunno, but you can read about all this here [cdfreaks.com]

    also, LiteOn is planning on releasing some new CD / DVD burners, as well as entering the standalone DVD player business. Nero is also showing off Nero 6, and an MPEG4 / AAC codec they have in development called Nero Digital. you can read about all this here [cdfreaks.com]

    -- for new, visit slashdot.org...
    -- for community, visit us [frostjedi.com]!

  • ... if it is real, that is, and not vapourware

    Sure, the objections about the components being expensive, compared to PC-based equivalents, are noted. They apply strongest to the storage devices, which should really just be hard disks in servers somewhere at the home's headend.

    The other devices are "living-room" stylish, and fit well in a media center. Well, maybe showed off a bit more, somewhat like my (rapidly aging) B&O Beosystem 5500.. The idea of a dedicated entertainment peripheral, capable of

  • What's a mystery to me is why we still bother with different storage formats - hard drives for files and mp3's, DVDs for movies, different hard drives for the PVR, and so on. What we really need are home entertainment components which don't have any storage of their own, but simply have ethernet jacks to connect to a centrailzed hom mass storage device (RAID/SAN/NAS/whatever). Rather than have 100GB in my PC, 40GB in my PVR, 5GB on a DVD, and so on, just have ONE storage device for the whole house that can hold your computer files, MP3s, PVR shows, and ripped DVD movies.

    Talk about convergence! Buy one huge RAID box, put it in your basement, and hook everything up to it through a home metwork. It would be more expensive at first, but if the electronics industry started making devices to take advantage of it, costs would go down (no more local storage), and the convenience would be amazing - watch your PVR movies on your PC transparently, listen to your MP3s on your living room stereo instead of PC speakers, store a library of movies without changing DVDs, and so on.

  • Modular homes? (Score:4, Funny)

    by fence (70444) on Saturday March 15 2003, @07:04PM (#5521359) Homepage
    Jeesh--you would think that people who live in modular homes probably have better thngs to spend their money on than networked PVRs...

    Oh, you mean a Modular, Home Network PVR?

    That's different...

    Nevermind.

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