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Digitized Gutenberg Bible Available
Posted by
simoniker
on Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:31 PM
from the bible-named-after-electronic-book-collection dept.
from the bible-named-after-electronic-book-collection dept.
Prince_Ali writes "A digital copy of the Gutenburg Bible, the first major Western book printed from movable type, has been made available by The University of Texas, available through the Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center. The Ransom Center's copy of the Bible is claimed to be the finest in the world, and is now freely available to anyone who would like to examine it. More information can be found via this CNN.com article."
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Easy Now (Score:5, Funny)
regardless of religion.... (Score:5, Insightful)
it's a very breathtaking and wonderful object to view.
Mike
Re:regardless of religion.... (Score:3, Funny)
Props to UT (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:Props to UT (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a good thing to have school pride, but don't let it run away with you. UT Austin gets the recognition it deserves (e.g., it's rated highly, etc.). However, the tendency of Texans to give themselves too much credit for stuff like this is all too common, and is a turn-off to the rest of the nation and to those who come to visit. Listing a couple of obscure accomplishments and mentioning that it's "waaay underrated" is only going to invite deign laughter from those in positions similar to mine.
Just letting you know...you may mod me down now.
Parent
Re:Props to UT (Score:3, Informative)
Is Gutenberg that nice? (Score:5, Interesting)
He put back knowledge for 100 years by allowing of such a guild that muchg power.
Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
The Bible (Score:5, Funny)
I already read it, what else you got?
Important copyright notice (Score:5, Funny)
Yours etc.
Supreme non existent being
Movable Type??? (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, cowboyneal uses Movable Type. Hmmmmmm.
So much for a free press.. (Score:5, Insightful)
So much for a free press and research materials.. This is such a load of crap. The largest images publicly available are 835x600.
Inquiries regarding the availability of higher-resolution digital images for research or publication should be directed to the Center's staff.
All this from a public university. Your tax dollars at work!
-molo
just ignore it (Score:5, Interesting)
A similar principle applies to ignoring claims of copyright on digitized paintings painted before 1923 -- if it's simply an accurate copy of the painting, only the original (expired) copyright is in effect.
Parent
Unfortunately, The University of Texas... (Score:3, Funny)
In a related story, God is suing Johannes Gutenberg ...
Obligatory old joke (Score:5, Funny)
A man went to a rare book shop and noticed an old bible on display. He struck up a conversation with the book shop owner.
"Yeah, actually, I had an old bible which I threw out last week. It was by someone called Guten... something."
"Not Gutenberg, I hope?"
"Yeah, that's the one."
Upon seeing the look on the book shop owner's face, the man replied:
"Ah, don't worry. It wasn't worth anything. Some guy called Martin had scribbled in it."
But.... (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, the Mormons made their own Bible, why can't I? What does Joseph Smith have that I don't? (well, maybe a loyal following and charisma, but those are overrated. Aren't they?)
Looks like they missed a page. (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm, it looks to me like they missed the page at the beginning that reads:
Yaz.
Re:Looks like they missed a page. (Score:3, Insightful)
About the Author:
Bob Patterson graduated summa cum laude from Babylon university, with a degree in accounting. He spent the first part of his professional life as a money changer at H.R. Ziggurat before being assaulted by a homeless religous zealot. Though the zealot was later killed by some Romans, Bob was depressed about how many followers these religious crazies can accumulate, and decided to spoof them in this clever send-up of what people will believe. While Bob doesn't expect anyone
Are those coffee stains? (Score:3, Funny)
Guttenberg's Bible? (Score:3, Funny)
Bible, schmible! I much prefer Guttenberg's [imdb.com] movie [imdb.com].
two things (Score:3, Insightful)
* 2003-07-23 22:57:45 Gutemberg's bible digitized (yro,books) (rejected)
of course, it got rejected without explanation...
The second thing is that, as I said in that submission, something isn't right... If you read the pages where you can see one of the bible's page, you can read the following legalese.
"Further reproduction of any of the Gutenberg Bible images without the written consent of the Ransom Center is prohibited.
Inquiries regarding the availability of higher-resolution digital images for research or publication should be directed to the Center's staff."
What does that mean, considering this book is old enough to belong to all of humanity, hence these images should be useable by any one for any purpose ?
British library put two copies on the web... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Insightful)
Even the average Latin student is not going to be able to read those digitized images or even the actual pages, given the typography.
Cross-referencing does not have to be done in the margins of a book. Do you know how many in-depth studies of texts are done in rare book rooms? Without drawing on the books?
If nothing else, making the GB more available will teach the average huckleberry that the bible wasn't written in english, lol.
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:3, Informative)
Write in the margins?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Write in the margins?! (Score:5, Informative)
Not a bad survival ratio, actually.
Parent
Re:Write in the margins?! (Score:3, Informative)
"It is one of forty-eight surviving copies and one of twenty-one complete copies in the world."
Re:Write in the margins?! (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Cool (Score:5, Informative)
Tim
Parent
Re:Cool (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:3, Insightful)
How could anyone say the above drivel is informative?
For your information, the Guttenberg Bible is a masterpiece that helped usher in not only the renaissance but also the reformation. The GB and the printing press also aided civilization tremendously by helping spread knowledge throughout the globe in a quick and timely manner.
Of course it is true that the Guttenberg Bible does not make a good study text; that goes without saying. For one thing, its in a museum and for another thing the photog
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:3, Informative)
Yes -- what's special is that it's one of the first printed books in Europe. The cultural impact on the free dissemination of information was much greater than that of the Internet. (Yes, books were still expensive, but much more numerous and affordable than hand scribed ones.)
the photographs provided by the HRC are not detailed enough to make out the text clea
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Informative)
Be careful with the NIV, though. It's quite a good translation, but you have to be aware of what you're getting when you read it. The translators used the "dynamic equivalence" philosophy, to make it easier to read. That means they took the more difficult sentences and rephrased them, changing both grammar and vocabulary to a more straight-forward reading level. (Every translation involves interpretation, but dynamic equivalence adds a second layer of "putting it in your own words.")
Here's some good resources:
Unbound Biola [biola.edu] -- Bible search. Most of the major English translations, along with 30 or 40 other languages, ancient and modern.
Read the Bible [bible.com] -- 50 or 60 translations, English and otherwise. Some are available for download, as are the necessary fonts.
Parent
NET Bible (Score:5, Informative)
I've recently become pretty keen on the NET Bible [netbible.com]. It is a fairly new modern translation by a group of scolars, designed for free distribution on the Internet. (I'm still a bit disappointed with their "license", but it's better than most other modern translations. I think there needs to be a good readable modern translation that is as "free" as the KJV.)
Anyway, the NET Bible contains over 50,000 translators notes, some of which are quite useful in determining what the original text likely means. Then there are historical notes and other study notes. Definitely recommended.
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I think it was a mistake to translate the gospels from Aramaic, too.
Realistically, this Bible is less useful for the study of modern theology than it is other things -- art, the history of print and bookbinding, the evolution of the scriptures, etc. I mean, look at the cover of the thing -- it's a stunning piece of work.
If you are truly serious about studying the Bible as a living book, and not as a museum piece, then pick up a New King James or NIV version.
IMO, the King James versions still suffer from their poisioned past. The NIV makes a good effort, but I disagree with some of the interpretations they make (although I do agree with the need to draw those interpretations).
The key to really understanding the Bible is to understand its sources and inspiration, examining the roots of the mythology being presented and the way in which things would have been intended. This isn't easy to do, but IMO is worthy of at least ameature study.
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:3, Informative)
Weren't they orginally written in Greek to be applicable to a wide audience? It would have been good of the apostles to also provide an Aramaic version too of course, but they were never written. Not that they were literal translations either.. how many years after Jesus's death were they written? Almost 100 years for John's gospel?
-molo
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard they were written in the AD60-70-80 area.
In any case, Paul's letters would have been written before AD 60, so we certainly have good ancient witness to the Christian faith.
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
An excellent excuse to learn latin (Score:3, Insightful)
Ester in the OT was the first to take the holy scriptures and put them on paper so that everyone could read them. Nothing was hidden. Everyone knew what the priests did. Everyone knew the temple. Everyone knew the ceremonies. There were no secrets. Nothing ever was really hidden from the people. But the fact it was now openly in writting instead of just oral tradition was an enorm
Re:An excellent excuse to learn latin (Score:5, Informative)
Then the Catholic church came and decided to take the scriptures away from the people and to try to hide the ceremonies and teachings forcing people to just trust the words of the priests.
Sorry, I don't want to get into a theological debate on this forum, but I respectfully disagree with this; after all, people within the Catholic Church helped establish the modern university and did a great deal to try to educate people.[1] The major problems of getting Scripture to the masses involved widespread illiteracy and the fact that, until the invention of the printing press, Bibles couldn't be easily copied and distributed. It wasn't some sort of high ranking conspiracy that kept Bibles away from the possession of the common people but rather, the issues were essentially of a practical nature.
The history of the Church is very detailed and interesting. Getting into it from a more properly academic perspective would take a bit of time and it's waaaay past my bedtime already
And even today they try to hide the actions of their priests.
That's an overgeneralization that does not apply in the vast majority of cases, but it does underly a very real and valid concern that people have. I'll quote one of Pope John Paul II's addresses at the World Youth Day in Toronto last year. I think he did a pretty good job of summing up the feelings of those of us within the Catholic Church regarding the tragedies that have come to light recently. (Of course, I'm mindful that mere words cannot erase the immense harm that's been done):
[1] Particularly, I have in mind the establishment of cathedral schools which helped address the problem of a mostly illiterate population. See Margaret Deansley: A History of the Medieval Church.
Parent
Re:An excellent excuse to learn latin (Score:3, Insightful)
Mod parent overrated please! (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this the beginning of your strawman argument? Nobody suggested it is a study bible. You threw that out there and you then proceed to back up your blatantly incorrect assertion.
Also, it is simply not available to the general public.
Again, it's not meant to be. Unless the public is clamoring for a latin text, what does it matter that it's only available to those with internet access? The images aren't large enough (even the enlarged ones) to really read comfortably even if you are fluent in latin.
Finally, the Gutenberg Bible does not have an easily accessible concordance.
You mean it has no concordance? Dude, this is of archeological signicance only. Nobody in their right mind would learn latin so that they could study this thing. I get the feeling by now that you're simply trolling, but seeing that you got a +5 Informative, I feel compelled to respond.
the fact that Gutenberg Bible owners won't let you touch the things, much less write in the margins, means that you are pretty much hamstrung as far as study goes.
Dude, I can write in the margins. My Jiffy marker shows up great on my monitor screen, and it's always there for me. And as for being hamstrung, does my lack of speaking Latin hamstring me too?
If you are truly serious about studying the Bible as a living book, and not as a museum piece, then pick up a New King James or NIV version.
On this point I have to agree. This is a museum piece and isn't great for studying. After all, looking up Psalm 137:9 in King James Version is much more eloquent:
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Gives it a nice Shakespearean quality I'd say. But if you're not into that, the NIV is a lot clearer:
"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
Nothing quite says God Loves You like a little bit of infant seizing and rock dashing.
Parent
Re:Mod parent overrated please! (Score:3, Informative)
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Let's see that with a little context:
Babylon, hmmm... Iraq.
I think this is the answer to somebody's sig that reads: Who would Jesus bomb?
:-)
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:3, Informative)
I see where you are coming from - but you have to keep in mind that the Bible was not written by white - english speaking men. True hermeneutical study of the Bible requires taking into account the historical/cultural context in which it was written. A Language embodies the culture from whic
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're truly serious, you'll find that the exact words are unimportant if you're able to understand their intent. That's what the NIV Bible is trying to accomplish (although I don't agree with their results, but that's another matter). This ain't easy, however -- it generally requires a pretty good understanding of the era in which the sources were written, the sorts of mythology from which certain portions are lifted or evolved from, etc.
It seems to me that adherants to western religions are stymied by their need for a literal instruction manual to their faith. It tends to lead to less of an appreciation of the nuances of their beliefs and bogs them down in the literal interpretations, many of which were originally intended to be metaphors to begin with.
It's odd that the progression in the Axial Age moved from what I'd consider the "best" take on religion -- Buddhism, which stresses the style of thinking and individual pursuit of enlightenment versus attachment to single interpretations -- to Christianity to Islam, which is the worst offender in terms of demanding literal interpretation (since the Koran is supposed to be the end-all-be-all Word directly from the Big Guy's mouth).
I suspect that literal, close-to-source literature is attractive to a lot of people because it's easy. "God created heaven and earth, here's what he wants you to do" is a lot easier than approaches to spirituality which demand that you figure a lot out on your own.
Parent
Re:Christianity and the Gutenberg Bible (Score:4, Insightful)
the exact words are important. playing fast and loose with the word of god is a slippery slope that very quickly turns into "the parts of the bible that are convenient for my world view today are the parts that he _meant_, and the rest is just filler!"
imagine this conversation, at the gates:
God: so what was this business about you side stepping the "don't divorce" part ?
Person: well, i thought that was a bit outdated and mostly just a metaphor. what you meant was that i should be faithful while i was married
God: thanks for correcting me. Now, did you miss that part where i said "this is the word of the LORD"
Person: well sure, but you don't cover this...
God: and those other parts where i explicitly say under what circumstances divorce _is_ allowed ? i don't recall inspiring anybody to write "when she gets a bit older" as one of the conditions...
Person: well, i thought that was kind of ambiguous, and my sitation is kind of unique...
God: listen buddy, i made you, and i knew everything you'd ever do before there was anybody around to write a bible. did you think your "unique situtation" would catch me off guard ? that we'd have this chat, and i'd end up revising the bible to fix my oversight ?
Person:
People that ignore the bible may spend a lot of time in church, but probably aren't christians. Nobody can claim to know for sure that they have the correct interpretation of the word, but i think the balance of the difficulty is living as you are commanded, not in understanding the commands. as far as i know, if you read the bible and honestly misunderstand it, you won't be judged. nobody can have a perfect understanding of the word, but as long as you dont knowingly turn against what you have read and understood, you should be alright.
I think accessibility of the bible is virtue. Sure, if the basic message is easy to explain in a few sentences, and any common man can understand it, well, i could see how that would be uninteresting to a weekend theologian intellectual. But why whould it be any other way ? The word of god is for everyone, not just the people too smart and too proud to actually abide in it.
Parent
Re:The source? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:This is great... (Score:3, Funny)
Now I have a reason to take my comp to church!
Or a reason not to go to church... no thanks, mom. I'm just going to sit here in front of my computer and read my, uh... "bible".
-a
Re:Muslims (Score:3, Interesting)
In general, as well, your contention about the universality of Islam implies that you are closing your mind to the bewilder
Re:Much better Bible reference (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/cain. html
Anyone can see that there is no contradiction here. Here's what I wrote to him (excuse how it sounds a bit of a mouthful at the end):
He responded:
If he's not willing to change on the simple things, then I'm not going to spend my time pursuing his more important list. I needed to establish first that my time was going to be well spent (the list he referred to was http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cr_short.html)
To me a contradiction is when two opposite, and irreconcilable things are said to be simultaneously true. Such as saying an object is only blue yet it is also only purple. Which is it? Blue or purple? In this Cain story, however, I gave a scenario under which both the statements were true. And that is not a contradiction no matter which way you look at it.
As you can see, he responded politely, I have no bitter feelings. I'm posting this so that others realise that much of the information presented is not contradictory or a problem unless you only look at it from one of many angles.
Parent