RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets

Lapzilla writes "In an article from LA Weekly, it would appear the RIAA has taken their fight to the streets. Wearing jackets with "RIAA" emblazoned upon them, they have taken to busting street vendors in an FBI fashion for selling bootleg CDs and DVDs."

Cool...

[FortKnox (169099)]

It's like saving taxdollars. They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.

Re:Cool...

[Frymaster (171343)]

They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.

oh there's a smashing idea! private citizens' initiatives at law enforcement always turn out to be fair and equatible treatments of not only the letter but the spirit of the law.

Re:Cool...

[brundlefly (189430)]

How is this different from Macy's in New York, which has its own holding cell in their basement for shoplifters who have been detained and are awaiting the NYPD?

Re:Cool...

[SlashDread (38969)]

Macy's wont come storming your house pretending to be police, when you are a shoplifting suspect, thats what.

"/Dread"

Re:Cool...

[suwain_2 (260792)]

Even that is kind of sketchy-seeming; however, you're on their property and presumably you're placed under a 'citizen\'s arrest' by them, which I believe it technically legal, though you'd better know exactly what you're doing lest you find yourself the target of a tremendous lawsuit and/or unlawful detention charges.

If you break into the RIAA headquarters, and they hold you there until the police arrive, it's probably legal. But if they randomly run around -- in public or, better yet, on your private property -- pretending to be the police, it's suddenly a blatant felony.

Police Only Please

[Marnhinn (310256)]

It may save tax dollars - but it is a step toward private business enforcing it's own laws. Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson) where the different parts of the city all have their own rent-a-cops that enforce different laws? I realize that the RIAA is attempting to combat piracy - but they should not be making claims like "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs..." (from article).

Taking law into your own hands is not something I want to see happen in America - for example some guy starts pulling over speeders that drive by his house, or a store owner shoots two kids that are shoplifting... Simply put I don't trust the RIAA and most private law enforcement agencies. That is why I pay taxes - so I can have a FAIR and UNBIASED bunch of law enforcement.

That said - I think the guy was an idiot for selling pirated stuff and don't support him one bit - it is the tactics that are being used that scare me.

Re:Police Only Please

[Phillup (317168)]

Here is how I see it... (IANAL... this is just an opinion... and all the other things that should be painfully obvious...)

The "RIAA Police" just committed a crime. They stole the property of another citizen. And, they may have also committed fraud.

And it also sounds like they threatened battery.

He should take them to court at the very least.

Yes, there is such a thing as a citizen's arrest... but that does not involve confiscation of another's property.

---

Now... did the vendor have illegal goods?

Well... let's just say that isn't the RIAA's call. We have a justice system for that.

That can *ONLY* be determined by due process.

This was not due process.

Possible arrest for Impersonating an Officer?

[Dukeofshadows (607689)]

Does anyone else here think that these EX-cops should be brought up on charges of impersonating a police officer and potentially discrimination (80% of their incidents are against Hispanics and the "officer" interviewed had choice words)? And wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?

Re:Possible arrest for Impersonating an Officer?

[pla (258480)]

wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?

Too bad I don't live in LA...

Anyone who does, want to make a few bucks, courtesy of the RIAA?

Find one of these "teams". Follow them around, stepping in to explain to anyone they attempt to bust that they lack any legal power and the vendor can safely ignore them.

Have a friend, staying out of sight, follow you around during all this with a video camera.

When the RIAA rent-a-fake-cops get pissed and beat the crap out of you (since they hire real ex-cops, that shouldn't take too long), congrats, consider yourself set for life from your civil suit.

Best of all, since these guys don't actually count as cops, they can't charge you with interfering in a police investigation (which would almost certainly happen if you tried this on real cops).

Re:Cool...

[Tassach (137772)]

It's like vigilantism. Last time I checked, the RIAA did not have police powers. Even if they hired licencesd private investigators, the most they can legally do is gather evidence to present to a jury. If they're confiscating a vendor's goods (even if they are infringing copyright) without a court order, it is THEFT (the real kind). If they detain someone, it's false arrest. If they hit someone, it's assault & battery.

Except under some VERY limited circumstances, private citizens are not allowed to enforce the law, and even then they are taking a risk of being charged themselves.

Whoa

[DumbWhiteGuy777 (654327)]

Let's say, theoretically, someone wanted to purchase these jackets. Where would one buy them?

I, er, my friend wants one.

Re:Whoa

[hornrimsylvia (696514)]

you don't BUY an RIAA jacket, you make your own and then share them with your friends.

Re:Whoa

[stefanlasiewski (63134)]

True story

Around year 2000, a friend of mine printed up a bunch of flack jackets that said (In BIG letters) 'FBI'. In small letters above 'FBI', it had the disclaimer "Not a member of the".

When we wore these jackets in public, we would be harrassed by many people (particularly drunk peopople). They had the gall to accuse us of being members of the FBI, called us "Fucking pigs!", etc.

Can you imagine?!? We often needed to calm them down and explain "Sir, sir! It clearly says here", *point*, "that I am *not* a member of the FBI."

They usually didn't get it.

Haven't worn that jacket in a while. It became very un-funny to some people, especially the cops.

the riaa is breaking the law here

[mpost4 (115369)]

It seams to me that if they make them selfs to look like the cops, that would break a law about impersonating a police, they even said they are "They said they were police from the recording industry." They have no power to do this, this is just some FUD tactics on their part, I am not saying that it is ok to sell bootlegs. Once you start to make money from bootlegs (and from the article it does not seam that the guy was selling bootlegs to his knowledge, they might have been with that upfront cost but that is another story) then you have crossed from fair use to copyright infringement, but still 2 wrongs do not make a right, and the RIAA is really opening them selfs up to major legal problems, but being that they have such a strong lobby group they might not get into trouble.

Under color of law

[MillionthMonkey (240664)]

It appears the RIAA is busting people under color of law. If this is true then it is a big deal. This means that the people they are busting believe they are police. Even if you're not a cop, if you present yourself as one, you are considered a state actor by the courts just like a real cop and can be held civilly liable for violations of civil rights. Private citizens acting in their private interests cannot be held liable under the civil rights statutes (primarily 42 USC 1984) but state actors can.

Here's the most relevant statutes:

[Valdrax (32670)]

California Penal Code, Section 538d.:

538d. (a) Any person other than one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the authorized uniform, insignia, emblem, device, label, certificate, card, or writing, of a peace officer, with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(b) (1) Any person, other than the one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the badge of a peace officer with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(2) Any person who willfully wears or uses any badge that falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge of a peace officer as would deceive any ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, for the purpose of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars
($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) Any person who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses, or who willfully makes, sells, loans, gives, or transfers to another, any badge, insignia, emblem, device, or any label, certificate, card, or writing, which falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge, insignia, emblem, device, label, certificate, card, or writing of a peace officer as would deceive an ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor, except that any person who makes or sells any badge under the circumstances described in this subdivision is subject to a fine not to exceed fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000).

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that wearing uniforms that resemble generic law enforcement uniforms but are not direct imitations of official uniforms is illegal. Basically, if you aren't using a fake badge or a damn good copy of an official police uniform, I think you can get out of this one under California law. Then, there's the US Code to consider:

Sec. 913. - Impersonator making arrest or search

Whoever falsely represents himself to be an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, and in such assumed character arrests or detains any person or in any manner searches the person, buildings, or other property of any person, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both

As long as they're careful not to represent themselves as being a federal employee, they haven't violated this law either. In other words, it's going to be hard to nail them for crimes unless they do something stupid that's not covered under their little "voluntary" contract that people must sign -- so long as said contract holds up in court as not being signed under duress. Considering that the new RIAA head is from the BATF, I'm pretty sure he's savvy about skirting the laws holding back law enforcement officers as much as possible.

Utter havoc.

[ActionPlant (721843)]

Is this for real? Who gave them the authority to do this? If I were to plagiarize someone's work of fiction, it doesn't give that person the right to bust into my bookstore and throw things around. There are legal proceedings to be followed. Whatever happened to decency?

Damon,

Re:Utter havoc.

[Lumpy (12016)]

The fun part is that they really shouldn't be suprised when one or more of them get's seriously hurt or killed.

whoever though this was a good idea is a complete idiot.

street vendor get's attacked by a RIAA jacket wearing group, street vendor pulls out pistol and cap's a couple of them. Hey, why don't they start their sweep in south central LA.

Re:Utter havoc.

[swordgeek (112599)]

I agree with their choice in targets. I disagree, and take great issue with their tactics. Implied threats, intimidation, misdirection, and coercion are not legally (or morally) acceptable ways of obtaining material 'voluntarily.'

If they would get a court order, or got the cops to act legally, then this wouldn't be bad. Four thugs dressed in 'almost cop' uniforms approaching a tiny guy who may or not understand english well, is unacceptable.

Libraries Next!

[nightsweat (604367)]

RIAA Cop: OK, Mr. Carnegie - just what do you think you're doing?

Citizen: Um, listening to a record I checked out from the library?

RIAA Cop: "Checked out"? Don't you mean "Used to commit a crime!?"

Citizen: Um, no. I don't think-

RIAA Cop: That's the problem - you don't think! Come with me - we're going to Walmart so you can BUY that record. "Checked out" - I've never heard such a pathetic excuse.

Quotes

[GnrlFajita (732246)]

if an anti-piracy team crossed the line between looking like cops and implying or telling vendors that they are cops, the Los Angeles Police Department would take a pretty dim view

I don't know -- the RIAA is pretty low, but I don't think even they would want people to confuse them with the LAPD.

Second best quote: "They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.'"

Next step

[daeley (126313)]

Next step: Street Vendors selling RIAA-emblazoned jackets. Oh the hilarity!

Re:Next step

[Dr Reducto (665121)]

Are you ready for RANDOM HOME INSPECTIONS!

The RIAA is Coming!

Re:Next step

[aardwolf204 (630780)]

They'd probably sue you for trademark infringement.

Yes but my RIAA jacket stands for "Really Intrusive American Assholes"

remember where your money is going!

[garcia (6573)]

For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
All right boys... Make sure the boots go up above the knees... We're heading into bullshit territory!

If the RIAA isn't trying to look like the police why do they bother hiring ex-police officers, wear clothing similar to raiding police units, and cavort about as some sort of tactical unit? It is obvious to me that they want the "villains" to think they are the cops (and those street vendors, at least for the time being, are going to believe that they are).

Pink slips that say they handed the stuff over voluntarily or not... They are acting as an official force on duty to confiscate material and they want to look as official as possible to have these individuals fork over the material quickly and without issue. If they are so concerned about their property being "stolen" and resold why don't they contact the real police and have them do it? Probably because the real police have better things to do than worry about what is being sold in Chinatown...

Please remember that this is where your money is going when you decide to purchase music that is "owned" by the RIAA... Busting 12 year olds and funding a "tactical unit" to bust street vendors.

My suggestion, as always, is to support FREE MUSIC. FurthurNET [furthurnet.com] and Sharing the Groove [sharingthegroove.com]

Good luck RIAA and thanks for yet another humorous charade!

They should be careful in NY...

[bc90021 (43730)]

...as the vendors might fight back! Those guys can be *mean** if you piss them off...

Can they really do this?

[LamerX (164968)]

Okay, so lets say they walk into a place that is making counterfit CDs. Do they really have the right to go in and cease all of the counterfit property? I thought that they had to go through proper legal channels to do this. If this is okay for them to do, then why can't the creator of a GPL product bust into a company they know is violating the GPL in thier hardware and just start taking stuff? I'm surprised SCO hasn't started busting into every business and started taking computers with Linux on them... Wearing jackets that say SCO on them. SCO is scarier sounding than RIAA.

Re:Can they really do this?

[kidgenius (704962)]

No, they aren't seizing the property. They are mereley requesting for it to be handed over, otherwise they will pursue legal action. It's like if you stole my bike, i goto your house prove to you it's my bike and you stole it. I then can ask you to give it back, and if you decline, then I call authorities who will force you to do so.

'bout time

[Enry (630)]

I remember during the DVDCSS trial in NY, the 2600 legal team took reporters about a block away from the courthouse and showed street vendors selling illegal DVDs. The point (at the time) was it was easier and chaper to get an illegal DVD off a street vendor than it was to copy the DVD to your drive and burn it.

That's okay

[Joe the Lesser (533425)]

I wear a 'Pirate' Jacket when I bust into Borders and grab CDs. Fair's fair.

Scary stuff...

[strictnein (318940)]

Hello future, the present is calling

From the article this sounds pretty dispicable:
"The RIAA saw it differently. Figuring the discs were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad descended on his stand a few days before Christmas and persuaded the 4-foot-11 Borrayo to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 discs.

"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter. ...they may all be ex-P.D. Yes, they wear cop-style clothes and carry official-looking IDs. But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.

With all the trappings of a police team, including pink incident reports that, among other things, record a vendor's height, weight, hair and eye color"

A disgusting case of intimidation. Way to go RIAA, pick on a 4' 11" guy who hardly knows English.

But is this really any suprise? Plenty of companies have their own private police forces (and small private militaries too) and you still can hire your own army if you've go the cash [sandline.com], which many companies do.

This statement goes a little far in my opinion:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."

Which is a polite way of saying: "Those damn shifty Mexicans! They can't be trusted!" You're not the police! If I don't tell you my real name, there's nothing wrong with that, you idiots.

vigilantes

[potpie (706881)]

There is a word for one who takes the law into his/her own hands: vigilante.

RIAA the Game

[by Anonymous Coward]

This would be an awesome game. You are an RIAA agent with the jacket, sunglasses and cool weaponry. Your goal is to destroy all things music related. Dude with an MP3 player walking down street listening to music, Blam, cha ching. etc.

RIAA: Hi, I'm from the RIAA enforcement division.

[teamhasnoi (554944)]

Vendor: SAY HELLOW TO MEH LIL' FREN! *BLAM**BLAM*

RIAA: (Hand reaching into sky, as heart is cluched) AHHhhhhggghh!

Random Chick: Ohh Vendor! Let's do it!

This one act play is brought to you by the stale ideas of the MPAA. Thank you.

Good idea, I say we steal it.

[Kenja (541830)]

Lets go around in greasy t-shirts and ten years worth on unkeept beard growth (the official uniform of the FSF) kicking down the doors of people who violate the GPL and shout "Freeze scumbags, this is the FSF! Hand over your source code into the public domain and no one gets hurt!".

Seriously

[suwain_2 (260792)]

Is this a joke? I have a hard time believing this, except that I'm worried it's true.

How is this not a mob? Extortion? Impersonating a police officer? Harassment? Vandalism? I'd like to see the people involed with this arrested and held accountable for the numerous felonies they're committing!

Sure, they don't want to be portrayed as police.

[PurpleFloyd (149812)]

In the article, the RIAA "enforcers" claim they don't try to create the idea that they're a police force. Why, then, would a victim say that, "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs."?

It's pretty obvious what they're doing - essentially saying that they have the power to arrest and incarcerate private citizens - and they could end up in some serious legal hot water here. There are all sorts of laws against vigilantism and misrepresenting yourself as an officer of the law. I'd say that this could end up as an even bigger PR mistake than attacking grannies and little kids; there, they were (technically) on the right side of the law. Here, they're blatantly violating the law in order to get what they want. I hope they burn.

Note: I'm not a lawyer. If you need one, get one licensed in your jurisidiction; if you've been hassled by these assholes, you definately need a lawyer. As far as I can tell, this would be a slam-dunk case for a first year law student, let alone an experienced litigator.

SOLUTION

[Malicious (567158)]

"Hey You in the RIAA Jacket, you're not allowed in my store. You're trespassing. Get out, or I'll call the REAL cops."

End of story.

Seems to me there's a racist element here...

[allism (457899)]

Did anyone else RTFA far down enough to notice the quote from Langley...

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

WTF? THESE PEOPLE? Is it just me or does it seem that these guys are trying to prey on immigrant (illegal or otherwise) fears of police authority?

I'd like to see some sort of study of how many people are out hawking pirated wares, broken down by race, versus the race breakdown for the people the RIAA are busting. I know it doesn't matter because they're not actually imposing any authority, but it would be interesting to see the Hispanic community's reaction to the above quotation, and those numbers.

Violations

[jdavidb (449077)]

Oh, let's count!

• Impersonation of law enforcement personnel (They said they were police from the recording industry or something)
• Making threats of force ( and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs,)
• Confiscation of property without due process of law
• Musica de los 70's y 80's: Morally, if not legally, copyright on music this old should have expired. Given that it's Spanish, the RIAA probably doesn't own the rights, anyway
• We notify them that continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes. Nope; copyright is entirely civil law, not criminal (unless the DMCA figures into this somehow).

And this, my friends, is why, no matter how much we hate them, everyone should have the right to hire an attorney. Otherwise you only get the legal rights they tell you you have.

A Public Relations Dumb-Ass

[thoolihan (611712)]

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

Wow, I hope that quote gets plastered in the paper all around the country. How they let this joker talk to anybody in the press is beyond me. 'These people'... America is not real tolerant of those kinds of statements these days.

-t

Re:A Public Relations Dumb-Ass

[wondafucka (621502)]

My favorite part is that he said that they are of a Hispanic nature . They could be African, European, Asian, Antarctican, but damn it. There's something terribly hispanic about these damn pirates.

Wallet Inspector....

[ReadbackMonkey (92198)]

For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.

So wait... I can go upto someone with my gang of cronies, wearing gang colours that look like uniforms, claim I'm a wallet inspector, take peoples stuff, and as long as they sign something saying it's voluntary, it's all legal?

I think I found myself a new job

Okay, that's enough...

[phillymjs (234426)]

These RIAA pukes are starting to blur the line between corporation and government.

First they started collected taxes by getting a "you'll probably use these for piracy" fee tacked onto recordable media.

Now they're donning lettered windbreakers [firestoreonline.com] to act as law enforcement.

What next, are they going to form their own army and invade Thailand on some WMD (weapons of music duplication) witch hunt??? Where does it end?

~Philly

Wow is this an ugly article

[Weaselmancer (533834)]

Here's a few choice quotes:

RIAA:"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

Racism, anyone?

How about this gem, regarding parading around looking like cops, but not being cops:

RIAA:If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out.

Riiiiiiiight. Make sure you have your receipts on you before you try this one, kids.

It used to be fun to tow the Slashdot line and bash the RIAA for being evil...but you know what? They actually are evil. This is some pretty twisted shit. Racial profiling, impersonating the police, harassment, photographing likely suspects...unbelieveable.

Weaselmancer

Don't tell SCO

[litewoheat (179018)]

Lets hope SCO doesn't get any ideas from this...

Re:Time to get to work...

[Mod Me God (686647)]

I think it was both a parody on the old Southpark joke (adopted so well here at /.) and pretty funny (ironic) that someone would pretend to be a pirate buster, to bust pirates using a pirated logo.

On a serious note I am really glad they are going after real pirates, i.e. those nasty organised crime gangs that sell boot-leg materials, making profits to fund other nasty activities. If the RIAA concentrated on going after organised crime (people who make a profit on piracy) rather than individuals who are only after single-use and no profit-at-the-expense-of-others mentality, I may start to like them.

IMHO most people who download music will either subsequently buy the item if they like it (repeated use, better quality from a CD, associated benefits etc), or not buy it if they don't (like music from a radio, occasional use, but don't mind if they have it or not). Organised pirates take money destined for artists/labels from people who would otherwise be likely to pay full (fair, maybe full after discount sometimes) price.

Organised criminals are the real pirates.

Re:Time to get to work...

[happyfrogcow (708359)]

but the RIAA stormtrooper methods are so questionable that the actions should not be praised, regardless of the fact that these vendors might be a better target than the end user.

Re:Time to get to work...

[Triv (181010)]

You're missing the point, I think.

The problem isn't with the intent, per se, the problem is with the RIAA's methods - a bunch of ex-cops in RIAA jackets go up to a guy selling stuff on the street raid-style, scare the shit outta him, make him sign a "They didn't do anything illegal, honest, my goods were given over voluntarily" document and confiscate their discs. They have no right to do this. They're not police or an authority designated by the government, they're pinkertons hired by the RIAA to enforce their rules. This is wholeheartedly illegal (impersonating a police officer, etc.)

I'm all for the taking down of the major bootleggers, but this is utterly criminal. These people have zero authority to enforce any laws, anywhere. It's a PR blitz that will hopefully backfire.

Triv

Re:How to fight the RIAA... if you ever need to

[homer_ca (144738)]

Another thing to check is, does the RIAA even represent the record labels of the CDs he was selling in the article? The guy they busted was selling Spanish music CDs like Como Te Extrano Vol. IV -- Musica de los 70's y 80's. Maybe the CDs were legit or maybe not, but that Mexican record label probably isn't even an RIAA member.