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19th Century News Coming Online

Posted by michael on Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:30 PM
from the datamining dept.
mfh writes "The BBC is reporting that approximately a million news stories from the 19th century are going online. The project will cost roughly $3.6 mil USD (converted from UK pounds) and include 100 years of news and images from publications that are no longer copyright protected, and currently only available at the Newspaper Library in Colindale, North London. 52000 newspapers and magazines will be included and the project should take 18 months to complete. This is good news for Slashdotters, as this online archival project will provide a plethora of background material for articles and comments, and possibly pave the way for better online library projects with more current material."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:31PM (#9407398)
    ... approximately a million news stories from the 19th century are going online ... This is good news for Slashdotters ...

    This story is a dupe: http://yeoldeslashdott/article.asm?yere=1842&monet h=Junius&sid=-524841
  • If anyone actually checks it first, that is...

    Also, how useful the resource is will depend as much on the interface as the material.
  • Dupes (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:32PM (#9407407)
    I just hope we don't start getting dupes from 1859 around here...
        • Re:Dupes (Score:5, Funny)

          by sentientbeing (688713) on Saturday June 12 2004, @02:04PM (#9407954)
          Yeah imagine the science and tech news though.

          In todays news
          A loose organisation of gentlemen alchemists are currently awaiting a funding decision for research into the recently discovered "philosphers stone".
          A succesful working model of the stone has been built in london and commentators estimate the stone being able to convert 500lbs of lead into gold within the year.

          international news from the colonies, an american team based in arizona are currently building a large cannon in preparation for the manned trip to the moon.
          "Our steam powered cannon is almost complete and we are currently packing the hollowed-out-cannonball with food and weapons"

          "we will also be equipping the lunasphere with cotton wool face masks to prevent any contamination from the noxious fume which is rumoured to surround the moon"

          the masks are tied around the face of the lunanauts with silk ribbons provided by the womens institute.

          no mention is reported how the explorers intend to return to earth.
  • by Kr3m3Puff (413047) * <me&kitsonkelly,com> on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:37PM (#9407439) Homepage Journal
    It might even help people find prior art for some of the goofey patents we get these days.

      • Why no, any darned fool knows that one key checkout didn't happen until the 1920s-30s with Clarence Saunders' Keydoozle Markets. [in-forum.com] Insert your key beside the item in the display window, and all your selections would be routed by conveyor to the checkout. (PDF description [wiley.com] Search for "Keydoozle").

        One-step checkout in the 19th century, why the very idea!

  • the ultimate source of yesterday's news
    • I submitted this early yesterday, but I guess it got passed over. I'm quite happy Michael posted it, because it's about compelling subject. :-)
  • Murderous fun! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FyRE666 (263011) * on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:39PM (#9407449) Homepage
    Finally! We'll be able to scan through these ancient texts to find the original source of the hilarious "Just imagine a Beowulf cluster of these" comments, used in every single thread on Slashdot! How I laugh as I read it for the 14 millionth time!

    Actually should be interesting material there: Jack the Ripper, John Christie, Mary Ann Cotton etc... Yep, 1800-1900 was a good century for the UK's mass murderers.

  • Heh (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mfh (56) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:41PM (#9407458) Journal
    Before everyone gets carried away with the dupe jokes (as I am the submitter), I think it's important to note the cultural and scientific differences since these articles were originally written. To have a central online repository of this much data will help students to learn. Many students today rely on Google, but google is lacking complete works. Now Google will be able to index another million articles, and that means our knowledge and understanding of that era will increase as time passes. All other benefits are still important, but the student factor is, I think, the greatest part of this.

    Now that a complete online library is going online, perhaps other libraries will follow suit, and keep information free?
      • History (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mfh (56) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:17PM (#9407653) Journal
        > I gotta ask- why would think this would create "background material for articles?"

        My take on it was that with a million articles dating back to the 19th century could back up comments and articles that touch on the early roots of technology or modern science, and perhaps these sources could lead to some interesting comments on the subject matter, or possibly even revelations? Who knows what we'll find? Maybe once the library is used more and more frequently, they will begin adding many more works to it as well.

        Whenever someone is talking about famous scientists, any additional info can help, and many many many stories on Slashdot discuss historical features.

        I wasn't saying it would be a good source, but that it would help back up statements in stories with additional links to resources. Look at some of the math theories being solved today, for instance; how many of these unsolved mysteries posed in the 19th Century? Many, if I'm not mistaken.

        I don't think anyone can be certain how this will exactly affect Slashdot, but I'm guessing that extra info from this era couldn't hurt, right?
  • I mean I like pr0n too, but access to the vast libraries of historical documents out there strikes me as what we all thought would be accessible to us back in the days of Tom Swift.
  • by iXiXi (659985) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:44PM (#9407472)
    I hope these stories aren't like the small town papers I used to read growing up in the Appalacian Valley. "Mr. and Mrs. Smith had dinner at old widow Jackson's house Sunday after church meeting. Her leg is healing fine. They sat around and watched Andy Griffith reruns and ate collard greens n' such." ..some of these small towns seem to be stuck in the 19th century. So, I would expect the mentality of the writers and editors of the 19th century to be similar.
    • seem to be stuck in the 19th century. So, I would expect the mentality of the writers and editors of the 19th century to be similar.

      Yes. I would say that writers and editors of the 19th century would be, by necessity, stuck in the 19th century.

      Just as I seem to be stuck in the 21st century. Dammit, where's my helicopter belt?

    • Presumably, many if not all of the archived newspapers are from major cities -- London, obviously, and also Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, etc. There will be an abundance of sensationalism (19th century journalism makes complaints about modern journalism -- charges of a lack of objectivity and the "if it bleeds, it leads" policy -- seem like a joke) but probably not the provincialism you're expecting.
    • I think this is moreso a matter of scale than a matter of journalistic subject matter.

      What I mean by that is, while it may seem a bit farsical that a small town paper would write, as you joke,

      "Mr. and Mrs. Smith had dinner at old widow Jackson's house Sunday after church meeting. Her leg is healing fine. They sat around and watched Andy Griffith reruns and ate collard greens n' such."

      What the journalist covering this is doing on a "small town" scale isn't so different from what many publications do on

  • by colonslashslash (762464) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:45PM (#9407478) Homepage
    52000 free editions of Page 3 coming our way? Excellent!

    For non-UK ./'ers, Page 3 is a page in one of our more popular tabloids, The Sun [thesun.co.uk], that publishes a large picture of a semi-naked lady every day. In fact, Page 3 is the only reason anyone ever buys The Sun.

  • Prior art? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StarTux (230379) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:45PM (#9407480) Journal
    Will all this information help with any prior art stuff?
  • RTFA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ieshan (409693) <ieshan&gmail,com> on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:46PM (#9407484) Homepage Journal
    Millions and Millions of Articles put online that Slashdotters Won't Read!
    • by Altima(BoB) (602987) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:19PM (#9407667)
      RTFA? More like RTFLHYOAWN - Read the F*cking Last Hundred Years of Archived Items of Import from the Corresponding Time Periods.

      The acronym loving slashdotters will LOVE this development, but then again, IANAALS (I Am Not An Acronym Loving Slashdotter)
  • I wonder if they will be putting old Playboy issues online? You know... we only read them for the articles anyway...
  • Oh come on! (Score:5, Funny)

    by 91degrees (207121) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:51PM (#9407518) Journal
    This is old news.
  • Oh, really? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ktakki (64573) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:53PM (#9407527) Homepage Journal
    This is good news for Slashdotters, as this online archival project will provide a plethora of background material for articles and comments...

    Inventor Eli Whitney Applys For "One-Click" Cotton Gin Patent

    Pianists Seek Curbs on Player Piano Technology
    "Roll Sharing" Circles Seen as Threat to Recital Revenues

    Unsolicited Telegraph Messages on the Rise
    So-called "Lard" Telegrams Now Comprise 60% of Traffic, Operators Say

    Utah Granted Statehood
    Gov. McBride Lays Claim to Concept of Statehood, Says Other States Owe $6.99 Each

    (I think The Onion does this better than me.)

    k.
  • by Maljin Jolt (746064) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:01PM (#9407574) Journal
    I have a bound tome of the local newspaper from the year 1905. Certainly, what a difference in culture 99 year ago!

    A top political problem in Europe up to that date was women wearing long pantalons in public and irresponsible aviatics flying their fragile machines above the populated cities.(sic!) All socialist parties, which are currently at the peak of power in majority of european countries were totally outlawed, and some their members executed, because of throwing home made bombs on politicians. "War to terror" was that called.

    Only things which seems to be almost identical to our time are media advertisings and patent issues.
  • Its a good start (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mikeboone (163222) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:02PM (#9407580) Homepage Journal
    This is great. Imagine having tons of written history available on the net. It would give those Google guys a challenge.

    Maybe there should be a Gutenberg Project for old newspapers and such. Lots of metadata for easy searching.

    One of the things that drives me crazy about all the stupid copyright extensions is the amount of recent history that could be digitized. Just imagine the interesting things to be learned from minor accounts from World War II and other events. Right now it's just rotting away on paper and film.

    Support the Public Domain Enhancement Act [eldred.cc]!
    • Re:Its a good start (Score:5, Informative)

      by nautical9 (469723) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:17PM (#9407652) Homepage
      This is a good time to remind folks of the Distributed Proofreaders [pgdp.net] project, now the largest contributor to Project Gutenberg, where anyone can take a scanned page and compare it to the OCR output to check for errors. Sign up and give it a go - all browser based, and actually quite addictive. :)

      Get involved and help keep out-of-print and out-of-copyright books around forever.

  • by AgentGray (200299) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:04PM (#9407593) Homepage
    This reminds me of a website that Nothwestern has opened that has most of the case files from Chicago homicides from 1870 to 1930.

    Take a look. [northwestern.edu]

    It's incredible. How did anyone ever survive the city during that time period? If you feel like doing a little sleuthing and completing some unsolved cases, check it out. There's solved cases there as well.

    It's a good complement to Devil in the White City by Erik Larsen.

    The other amazing this is that almost nothing has changed in over 100 years...
  • by SoTuA (683507) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:26PM (#9407703)
    Great initiative!

    (shameless plug)

    In a similar initiative, the company I work with [newtenberg.com] has republished my country's first newspaper [auroradechile.cl], from the first issue in 1812.

  • by pedantic bore (740196) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:28PM (#9407724)
    I know some history grad students who killed years searching down old newspaper articles. They would have killed for something like this.

  • Um, yea... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Pollux (102520) <splien@gauss.c o r d.edu> on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:30PM (#9407736) Journal
    This is good news for Slashdotters, as this online archival project will provide a plethora of background material for articles and comments

    And we all know how much time slashdotters take to thoroughly research background material needed to create an informed and well-thought-out post.

    "Hey 3l33td00d, check out this post! ClearChannel just patented short-range FM Radio!"
    "Wait a second, hax0rd00d, acording to this Morning Post article I read from the UK 19th century news, there was this guy back in the UK who made an FM radio from a coconut back in 1894!"
    "Dude! You're so gonna get mod points on that one!"
    "Yea, took three hours to find the thing, but +5 is so worth it!"
  • by jdjonsson (592166) on Saturday June 12 2004, @01:48PM (#9407874)
    I've been working on a project similar to this for several years now. http://www.digitalnewspapers.org We have nearly 200,000 pages online and searchable.
  • by mnewton32 (613590) on Saturday June 12 2004, @02:36PM (#9408088) Homepage
    Paper of Record [paperofrecord.com] is a site run by a Canadian company showing off their digitisation software. It's a pay site, but I had a trial membership, and it's pretty cool. Lots of Canadian papers, but American and other foreign ones are plentiful too. All in PDF format, with fairly accurate searching.
  • by falzer (224563) on Saturday June 12 2004, @02:52PM (#9408169)
    I just heard some sad news on wireless - Abraham Lincoln was found dead in a Washington theatre this morning. There weren't any more details yet. I'm sure we'll all miss him, even if you weren't a fan of his work there's no denying his contribution to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
    • by eyeye (653962) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:36PM (#9407427) Homepage Journal

      You can find out just about um... anything from the above mentioned sources.

      Does it have a million news stories from the 19th century?

      No, well thats at least one benefit.

      lexis-nexis seems to cost money too.

      You were just going for a early post werent you, regardless of actually having anything worth saying.
    • Re:Benefits Over...? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mikael (484) on Saturday June 12 2004, @12:46PM (#9407483)
      As someone who has collected the five reprints of the Daily Mail from D-Day, I can say you will see far more than just the historical facts. There is a style of cartoon drawing (Illingworth) that would probably have you suspended from high school if you were to draw anything similar Not forgetting the aerial photographs of the D-Day landings. And there are those wacky adverts (what on earth was "Grandpa Kruschen" advertising?).

    • This resource does not appear to me to overlap significantly with Lexis-Nexis or Wikipedia. Theatre reviews and opinion pieces on textile tariffs dating from the 1830s - not to mention the volumes of irredeemable fluff that fill out any newspaper - are not 'information' of the kind you seem to mean. If you just want to find out about ... um ... anything - as everyone does - you aren't going to go looking for it here. The potential of the resource is almost purely academic, I think: it makes researching the
    • Becouse as the old addage goes, "If you don't learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it". That alone is enough incentive to study the past, with an eye to the future so we can learn from the mistakes of past generations.
    • "Somebody once said to me, 'why are you always talking about the past, you can't live in the past you know.' I said, 'well, I can go outside and pick up a rock that hasn't moved for hundreds of years, and bring it back in here and drop it on your foot. The past didn't go anywhere, it's right here, right now.'" -- Utah Phillips

      They say that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, but I think those who learn from history are doomed to repeat it anyway.

      "I think we can all agree, the past is over." --Dubya

      Seriously, though, the past is interesting because it continues to have effects on the present and the future. Also, because we can learn from patterns that have occurred in the past and from past misakes, so stydy of the past helps us to understand what's going on right now. I think a lot of people who want us to forget the past have very specific things in mind from the past that they'd like us to forget.

        • The belief that history is not important nor relevant. This could be plain ignorance, incompetence, ... etc

          It could also be deliberate deception. Noam Chomsky calls this the doctrine of change of course [zmag.org].

          The content of the doctrine is: "Yes, in the past we did some wrong things because of innocence or inadvertence. But now that's all over, so let's not waste any more time on this boring, stale stuff."

          The doctrine is dishonest and cowardly, but it does have advantages: It protects us from the danger of

            • I also don't see how you can argue that history can help the general public understand the present and at the same time say the public's knowledge of the present is usually wrong. What then is history helping us understand?

              OK, let me give you an example. It's been beaten to death, but it will suffice. The US govt claims that it is not practicing imperialism in the occupation of Iraq. However, a good look at the history of the US clearly shows that the US govt has frequently practiced imperialism before (t

    • History is to the nation what memory is to the individual.
    • by geeklawyer (85727) on Saturday June 12 2004, @03:20PM (#9408336) Homepage Journal
      The BBC is reporting the news but it is not BBC content that is being published. The publisher is the British Library: a statutory body funded by government, or to be more exact by the taxpayer. I think you may be confusing the recent story about the BBC making available some of it's own material under a Creative Commons Licence. That was an entirely seperate news item [slashdot.org].

      Of course the point you make is still valid if you extend the issue to the general public funding of such resources; from licence fees to taxes. While taxation funding is preferable to licence fee funding because it is broader and creates no damage to other BBC broadcasting functions, either is preferable to none. A well functioning public domain benefits everyone by allowing creative use of resources that would otherwise be difficult to find or unobtainable.

      I've done research at the Colindale library site. Let me be blunt to the point of vulgarity: it is a cunt of a place; Colindale is at the arse end of London; hard to get to; unpleasant to study in; hot sweaty and a fucking nusiance. I resolved not to go there again unless I had a choice. Broader and more convenient national, and better still global public access, would be a benefit to everyone. Research would be easier and more convenient: new better works would be created; students and researchers would produce better work's more easily etc. etc.; the public commons would be extended, rather than contracted under the prevailing "everyone must pay for everything" economists perfect pricing scheme promulgated by copyright rights-owners.

      Is all this extra worth expense to the public? Damn straight it is. A bargain.