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Best Buy to Eliminate Rebates
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Apr 02, 2005 01:46 AM
from the that'd-be-nice dept.
from the that'd-be-nice dept.
plover writes "According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune 'In response to customer complaints, Best Buy, the world's largest electronics retailer, promised today to eliminate mail-in rebates within two years.' Can it be that we're finally nearing the end of one of the most hated marketing ploys of all?" Further commentary available at BusinessWeek.
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Enough... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Enough... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nor do I expect to see it, nor am I going to even bother bitching to Best Buy about it. As they say, "don't throw good money after bad."
Parent
Re:Enough... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, why don't you call the number on the rebate form? You know, the one that you kept a copy of, along with copies of the UPC and receipt?
I've done several thousand dollars of rebates over the last three years and I have never not received them in the end. On a few, I did need to call in when the turnaround date passed without a check. That's why it is really important to keep copies of everything you send in as well as the appropriate due dates for each.
- Tony
Parent
Re:Enough... (Score:5, Informative)
That has *not* been my experience--especially with larger rebates.
My brother-in-law and I both bought Compaq notebooks at a big box electronics store with a $100 rebate from Compaq. Strangley, both of us got a notice saying that our rebates forms were illegible and to resubmit them. Of course those were rejected since they did not contain the *original* UPCs from the package since we sent them in on first go-round and they were not returned with the notice.
After numerous calls to Compaq with no resolution, I filed a complaint with my state's Attorney General's office. My brother-in-law did nothing. I got my refund in less than a week; my brother-in-law never received his. Coincidence? I think not.
Parent
That's a (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Mail-in sham... (Score:4, Insightful)
Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:5, Informative)
Take for instance their refund policy. If you buy a computer, and pay cash, and that computer doesn't work when you get home - you must wait for a check if you want to return it for a full refund. I advised my mother on going there because of the good prices. She paid cash and got a good deal. The PC was fried and they didn't have another to exchange.
Apparently another policy is that Bust Buy doesn't ship items from store to store or order replacement items if they are out of stock. Her options were: Wait 1 month for them to fix the computer, for free; wait 6 to 8 weeks for a refund; or pay the manufacturer to ship a replacement (and pay to take the broken machine).
After their sales staff insulted her in the store (only for wanting what was due), she decided to get the refund and buy a machine elsewhere.
Still, if I pay cash - why should I wait for a check in the mail? Cashing a check isn't cheap for people who don't have checking accounts, not everyone does have one too. Hell, they discourage the use of checks as it is.
Someone should also look into the fact that they never honor their rewards program. In one visit we bought $300 in DVD's and was supposed to get a $25 store credit in the mail (after paying another $10 to join the "club"). The credit never came and they don't even have us on file. Worst part is that we bought more, expensive, items there hoping we'd get a reward!
Scam!
Parent
Re:Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:5, Interesting)
It sure was refunded in time. only problem is that they sent it in the form of a $30 gift card and was only good at best buy. I took a copy of the add along with a copy of the reciet and warenty info that they gave me when i bought the hardrive. They said nothign could be done, either sppend the credit on the giftcard or let it expire. I guess if i had enough money, i should have taken them to small claims court or somethign.
Parent
Re:Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:5, Insightful)
on the other hand i have zero sympathy for you risking your credit rating over a stupid hard drive - you should never make impulse buys over $50, especially if you have to budget your money as closely as you apparently do.
Parent
Re:Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem with Best Buy (especially in that situation) is that shit rolls downhill. It always comes from the top, the people who deal with customers the least.
No matter, they broke the law in not giving what was advertised so his budget practices don't even enter into the logic game you try to play. You can't blame a customer for not getting what they were promised.
Or can you? That is the movement that companies are making now a days...
Parent
Re:Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:5, Funny)
Still, if I pay cash - why should I wait for a check in the mail? Cashing a check isn't cheap for people who don't have checking accounts...
What are you, some kind of communist?
Parent
Joke? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of the logic behind this:
I'm Joe Sixpack.
I save up my money to buy a television.
I get there and get the last one in stock because I had to save up my dollar bills.
I get it home, it doesn't work.
I take it back to the store to get a refund.
They tell me that even though I gave them cash, the most liquid form of payment, that I will get a check in the mail.
8 weeks, or 2 months, later I get a check.
The check isn't liquid.
Banks charge $5.00 just to cash it even if it's drawn at that bank.
Liquor stores want 2 to 6% of the check just to cash it.
I'm serious when I say not everyone has a checking account. I can't for various credit reasons, my father couldn't because of a nasty divorce which left him in bankrupcy, with fees it may not be affordable, I may not have enough money to use the checking account.
Remember, there are people out there scraping by. No matter, why should I take a check from you when I gave you cash?
Parent
Re:Best Buy should change other policies... (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course you do have the option of having them do a functionality test, it's a bit of a hastle given that they charge a while $0.00 and that it takes a whole 5-10 minutes to verify that the machine boots correctly (assuming you have to go through a setup process).
After their sales staff insulted her in the store (only for wanting what was due), she decided to get the refund and buy a machine elsewhere.
That truely does suck, but I would have to ask this, what kind of insult was it? Don't get me wrong, I had a computer salesman imply that I had some damaged my video card purchased 2 days prior which had a TV encoder IC chip actually blow out, (I could see the silicon inside sitting at an angle) and he had the audacity to say "well if you don't know what you are doing" to certified computer technician with years of experience. So I understand that people do say insulting things, but also having held a job way back in retail I can tell you that people are rather fscking nuts, I've been called a fscking idiot because I could not move a customer from a terminal that needed to be restarted (and was about 2 minutes away from being usable again) to a terminal already in use by an existing customer in a department which was not my responsiblity. The issue was that the gentleman in question had gotten this view that right after Christmas with the returns line being 2 hours long that he was somehow more important that the people who had waited just as long as he had. And that my refusal to immediatetly bow down to his demands while he was insulting me was completely unbelievable.
The point is, those clerks may have been majorly stupid and disrespectful, or it maybe that the situation turned a poor choice of words into an insult for your mother which really wasn't meant to be taken that way.
Still, if I pay cash - why should I wait for a check in the mail? Cashing a check isn't cheap for people who don't have checking accounts, not everyone does have one too. Hell, they discourage the use of checks as it is.
Because, as with most major retailers, the company limits access to money to prevent potential theft from employees and other unknown people. Odds are that that money you handed to the cashier was taken from the front register and placed in a safe to ensure that the company wasn't risking loosing 500+ dollars (and not just the cost of your machine). People have a habit of attempting to rip off major retailers all the time, they return false products sans important components or they return just the empty boxes and stupid clerks don't bother to check the box. So as a safety measure, ask yourself this, if you ran a store generating a $10,000 a day and had to just choose some guy you may not know personally to handle that amount of cash, wouldn't you feel concerned about the possiblity that that guy could accidently send a few extra hundred dollars some guy returning something, now, multiply that by they 600+ store Best Buy has. Isn't it a safer bet to have some bean counter hit a few keys, print a check and mail it off?
Yes, it sounds like you went through a hastle, which did suck, but the store would have had a policy that would have given you options since there is no way in hell a sale associate at any, ANY retail store would let you walk out of the store with an obviously non functioning machine you had just spend 500+ dollars for, your mother could have had a technician test the machine, and while it maybe possible that she wasn't asked if she would like a functionality test, I have yet to purchase a machine from (Best Buy or any other retailer) and not have those sale drones try and sell me on the fact that a functiona
Parent
Re:Mail-in sham... (Score:5, Interesting)
Even better, order the item online - you might wait a few days for the item but it will be cheaper, even with shipping. No matter it's a scam because the reason they, or the manufacturer, offer a rebate is because there was a price break.
There once was a time, you might just remember, when rebates were offered after you bought your item. Like the original "Zip" drive. I paid $200 for it when it came out, the same week it came out. Then after a few months they started offering rebates but they made it retroactive. That is what a rebate should be like.
Using rebates to sucker in customers isn't always going to work. It's not that they are bad always, my current computer was a huge deal because of the rebate. Then again, it dropped in price the same amount two weeks later.
Waiting two weeks would have kept the money in my pocket and I wouldn't have had to loan the computer company $250 for 2 months.
Parent
Re:Mail-in sham... (Score:5, Informative)
As for being cheaper online, at random, I looked up a hard drive from BestBuy.com (It's in their ad this week in the circular). Seagate Barracuda 120.0GB model number ST3120026A
Best Buy's Price: $99.99 - $50 MIR = $49.99
The Best Froogle could do wiht that same model number? $70 for a refurbished white box.
Best Pricewatch could do for that drive? $62 (This was a diffrent model number, but to be fair, as far as I could tell, same specs. The same model number was $74)
Best Pricewatch could do on ANY 120GB Drive? $53 for 5200RPM Drives.
It's just one example picked at random. I'm sure if we wanted to get into a pissing contest, you could find plenty of stuff that's cheaper online than what BBY sells it for after rebates. Point is, they're not all just horrible ripoffs designed to fuck you in the ass. Get overyourself and take off the tinfoil hat.
Parent
Re:Mail-in sham... (Score:5, Informative)
I have to be honest. I am no fan of BestBuy or MIR. However, I have always got my MIR's back. I have never had any issue at all, sure it takes a little time, but mine always arrive.
Parent
Re:Mail-in sham... (Score:5, Insightful)
Poster: 1 + 1 = 2.
Reply: I see you used mathematical symbols, which indicates an obvious bias. I'm not saying your wrong, but it's worth being said.
Parent
good riddence to a scam (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad that I'll never have to put up with these tatics from BestBuy again (not that I ever did, I use pricewatch and Fry's for my hardware needs).
Re:good riddence to a scam (Score:5, Funny)
Let me get this straight. You were too impatient for newegg.com, but you are willing to deal with the hassle of trying to collect on 13 to 14 rebates? That just boggles the mind.
Parent
Best Buy with morals? (Score:5, Interesting)
Only my extreme tenaciousness allowed me to get my rebate for a router. I had a photocopy of the reciept they lost TWICE, claiming I never sent it in. On the third time they tried to pull the old "no facsimilies" routine, but I kept at them and they relented and gave up the 30 bucks.
A richer man would have just given up. That is part of thier plan.
Re:Best Buy with morals? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's nothing to do with morals. Capitalism doesn't require morals. Best Buy probably spends more on customer complaints, lost customers, etc. to warrant this decision. They are self-interested, because they want to benefit the consumer.
(Only to the point where they have to do the least and get the most. They wouldn't give up profits for the consumer's benefit.)
Parent
Re:Best Buy with morals? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Geek Squad (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Geek Squad (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Geek Squad (Score:5, Insightful)
If this isn't an April 1st joke, the 2 year time frame is still a bit of a ways off. I would bet dollars to donuts you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE below the rank of executive or some high level managers, those directly responsible for getting this off the ground, that know more than the average /. reader right now.
Parent
Re:Geek Squad (Score:4, Insightful)
No offense to you, but asking a Best Buy employee (most likely a $8-an-hour community college student who likes gadgets) about relatively complex programming languages is akin to asking the guy who recommends wine at the grocery store how to start a vinyard.
If he was motivated enough to know Perl, don't you think he'd be anywhere but that hellish crap job?
Parent
I wish fry's would do this (Score:5, Interesting)
We wander around the huge store eventually losing track of each other. We are now only slightly embarrassed by having to call each others cell phones to find each other (although this took some getting used to). They have some really good deals especially considering the rebates. I started wondering if something was up a few months ago however when I bought an item, and a few days later when I went to mail the rebate in I noticed some fine print that said I should have mailed it sooner and it was no longer good.
now I have grown to hate fry's. yes I still shop there, but I am so frustrated when I have to wait 5 minutes while the cashier has to collect the stack of rebate forms for all the items I bought. Often these rebates are not even marked on a sign in the store so I am usually unaware they are even available.
I did all my christmas shopping there and was horrified at the stack of paperwork it generated. A seperate set of photo copies, forms to fill out, file folders to label and store in a "safe place" and stamped/addressed envelopes to buy, lick and stick. Some of the rebates were impossible to collect as I realized that I had given the UPC codes on some items away with the gift. The giftee's had usually thrown them away (of course) by the time I figured out which reciept went with which gift.
After cooling off for a couple months I found myself at fry's making a purchase again. Again there was a nice rebate available. This time I was absolutely determined to get my money. As I read the fine print I found another disturbing detail. On this particular rebate (and probably most) sending the required stuff to get the rebate meant that you could no longer make a warranty claim. The warranty of the item required the original UPC, and so did the rebate. So you were given the choice of $x back -OR- the warranty for the product.
what a world. my fingers are tired of typing. if you skipped the rest of my message I will sum it up for you: rebates suck, frys sucks, best buy sucks, and so do you, and everything else around us.
goodnight
Re:I wish fry's would do this (Score:5, Insightful)
Just a bunch of vendors trying to undercut the other guy, if you know how to wheel and deal a little bit you can beat the crap mainstream stores like Fry's and BestBuy any day of the week, even if you were to get your rebate money.
As for the Internet if you can hold your horses for even a day you can find killer deals on the internet, a lot of places have free shipping. Plus if you order from the right places you dont have to pay geschtap^H^H^H^H^Hsales tax.
Phuck Fry's, BestBuy, CompUSA et al. The one last thing I would recommend is your local corner computer shop, those guys are just geeks trying to make a buck, they may not have everything but they'll have most of what you need, plus they can order stuff. Plus he's the guy at the computer fair selling stuff as well, so give him some love, you just might make a friend who can hook you up later on.
Parent
It's because the FTC made them pay up (Score:5, Informative)
Rebates are in fact deceptive advertising (Score:5, Insightful)
Here in Germany there are strong laws protecting consumers. Here we have no rebates that are comparable to those in the US. Sometimes there are coupons attached to the product (like: collect 5 of these, claim a freebie/prize). But never we are told the product costs less than at the register. Heck, even the sales tax (more correctly: VAT) has to be included on the prize advertised for the item.
Staples has already done this (Score:5, Interesting)
Customers seem to love this option.
~DF
I guess this is something typically USA-ian (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank you in advance,
Mark
Rebates explained (Score:4, Informative)
The catch is that they often "lose" the paperwork, or require many "hoops" for you to do, so that you may get your money. They rely on the fact that many people do not fully complete all the steps necessary to acquire the refund, and thus the company never pays out. I've seen figures that state only about 10% of people wind up getting their money from these things, for a variety of reasons - forget to send the paperwork, lose the receipt, forget the deadline, etc.
Parent
Re:Rebates explained (Score:4, Insightful)
It is not so common here. Recently I bought a cable box and I would get half of my money back. I sent in the forms, and indeed: they were lost.
I did not know that would be standard procedure...
It must be inconvenient for the company as well. They have to keep records of which forms are received for the first time so they will be discarded, then advise those complaining customers that they need to send them a second time, this time handle them correctly, and make sure they do not get the rebate again by sending one or two extra forms...
And even then, the first-time failure of the handling of course stamps a negative image on the company.
They must have had a difficult time deciding if this is all worth it...
Parent
Best Buy to stop paying rebates? (Score:5, Funny)
How to get your rebate... (Score:5, Interesting)
My brother bought a stack of recordable CDs from a retailer in Vancouver close to five years ago. Of course, the advertised price at the time was a phenomenal deal and against my protestations and the angst inducing mail in rebate requirement for the "sale" price he bit and purchased the CDs, filled out the form and mailed in all the required bullshit.
Needless to say months later still no check. Down to the store he goes only to find out from the retailer that this is common problem and that most companies contract out their rebates to "fulfilment centres" where "fulfilment" is anything but.
We get into the "I told you so" conversation and I jokingly mention that he should sue. Note that by this point he'd called, mailed a letter or two and been generally frustrated. He looked into the matter and decided that he would file a small claims suit. According to him, they are incredibly easy to file in BC with only a few sticking points such as the legal name of the entity you wish to make a claim against and the type of business presence the company maintains in BC.
A few days after (and $100 later for filing costs) he sent a copy of the statement of claim to the company offices in Vancouver he received a nice phone call from the company offering to send him a check for the rebate and the cost of his filing fee (which was claimed in his statement of claim). He never got to stand before a judge, but he did get his satisfaction.
Now, why would someone go through all this for the $10 rebate on a stack of $25 CD-Rs? Well, he's the guy that decided half way through university that instead of engineering he wanted to become a dentist, so he did. He's one of those anal retentive types that keeps, files and remembers everything. Which is a good thing if you're a dentist, I suppose.
I work for rebater (Score:5, Interesting)
If you have to mail your forms and the forms are received and they are valid, you will get your rebate, there is nobody intentionally holding on to your money. If there is a problem, you will be notified and you can always contact our customer support to get it resolved. I can guarantee you that we have VERY dedicated people trying to resolve such issues, and I know it since I work side by side with them every day.
If you are tired of sending mail, you can just go to shop to (for examples) Staples. You don't have to send anything by mail anymore if you shop there. Just come to their easy rebates website, submit your name and address and you will get the check and soon even direct deposit as Staples announced this week.
The reason why the rebate process takes so long is actually not technical, one of the mai reasons is policy of manufacturer and retailers. Often the retailers need to protect themself from people who try to commit fraud, buy products, apply for rebates and return them. Mostly due to this reason you have to wait to get it.
Re:I work for rebater (Score:5, Interesting)
Rebates have always been a way to lower the 'perceived' price (well, at least for the gullible) without really lowering the price.
If you want to sell your item based on a 39.95 price, why else would you demand on collecting $80 from me and force me to wait around to get $40 back? Why should *loan* you (retailer, manufacturer, whoever) $40 interest-free?
If you just changed the price to the intended 'after rebate' price, then you would have to worry about fraud, returns, etc. You wouldnt have the overhead of receiving money and then having to make sure you only gave it back to the 'right people'. In fact, if companies offering rebates can afford to pay a staff to process rebates, they must be making a bundle off people who never get their rebates, otherwise it wouldnt be cost effective.
Parent
Maybe I'm the only one... (Score:5, Insightful)
If BestBuy has something for $100 with a $50 MIR, but the guys down the street are selling the same thing for $75, I'm buying it from the guys down the street. I've never found MIRs to be reliable and I have and always will be willing to pay a bit more than the "after-rebate-price" to avoid them. Now, if I do buy something that has a rebate, I'll go ahead and send it in, provided it's a worthwhile amount ($20 or more) and I'm not too concerned about destroying the packaging of the item by cutting the UPC off the box. In this case, I just consider MIR a sort of bonus win (like a lucky lottery ticket) and not part of the amount I'm saving from the store.
Am I just being a stubborn consumer or do others have a similar attitude?
Re:Maybe I'm the only one... (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, I've always thought it would be entertaining, if a store advertised (eg) "39.95 (in huge print) - after $30 and $50 rebates (in tiny print)" to go to the store, bringing exactly 39.95 (plus enough for tax, etc) and take the item to the register, and hand them that amount at the check out, and when they wanted more, pointed out (very vocally and very angrily) that the price displayed was 39.95, not the higher amount, and then after they (presumably) refused to let me out the door paying only the "advertised" price, walked out the door leaving the item there, and making lots of noise about it as I did so - the whold point being to A. force them to deal with an unhappy (lost) customer, B. have to carry the item back and put it on the shelf again, and C. call as much attention to I could (both to the store, as well as any other customers at the registers, etc) that they had lost a sale over the stupidity.
Parent
Here's the real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
The money quote: In fact, more than 80 percent of consumers surveyed by NPD Group of New York last fall said they sent in their rebate forms.
Just having consumers hate the rebates isn't enough. Rebates only work for sellers and manufcaturers if a substantial number of people fail to send them in. That is, they bought the product, probably having been persuaded by the rebate, then never sent in the rebate materials. I recall several articles in the past (no links, sorry) that explains how if the number of rebate submissions approaches 100% of purchases, then it's cheaper for manufacturers and sellers to cut the price. The rebate overhead, of course, is what really makes this happen.
So, an 80% submission rate is probably close enough to 100% that sellers/manufacturers aren't seeing the kind of return they're used to. Who cares whether the buyers like rebates? What matters is whether they file for and receive the rebates. Now that the FTC is cracking down on that second part (i.e., companies not paying off on the advertised rebates), where's the upside for the companies?
Re:April fools day is over (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I have yet to be stiffed, but two rebates I mailed in for my parents when they bought cell phones were rejected on the grounds that the second month's bill didn't show that the first month's balance was paid in full. Bullshit. There was a large number next to "previous month's balance" and a zero next to "current balance". I even circled it for them so they wouldn't miss it.
One angry email later, they promised to review my claim, and my parents did receive a rebate check for one phone. As for the second phone, they claimed not to have a rebate form in their system. Again, BS. How could they send me a rejection notice for a rebate form they never received? They either lost it or threw it out because they didn't feel like paying it.
Another angry email followed, and now they're asking me to fax my supporting documentation, which I plan on doing (always keep copies of rebate forms/receipts, etc, until you have the check). It almost seems like a game to see who will get tired of squabbling over a few measly bucks first. If it were my own money and not my parents, I'm not sure I'd still be fighting.
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Insightful)
Some businesses will instead just give you the discount at the till and do the work themselves for the rebate.
The only real major downside to getting rid of rebates is that in reality only a very small (less than 10 per cent) of people fill them out which means that in theory they can offer larger rebates for those who do. Of course, that's only in theory.
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you're making $30.00 each minute ($1,800/hr), you're just wasting perfectly good money.
Quit fooling yourself. It does NOT take 1 minute.
1. Fill out rebate form.
2. Make photocopy of receipt and circle purchase.
3. Cut out bar code.
4. Find envelope (every 100 envelopes or so, you'll have to organize to get more).
5. Fill out envelope.
6. Find stamp.
7. Make photocopies of everything you are sending.
8. Mark date on calender on date you are supposed to receive rebate.
[this is where we branch]
[branch #1: several weeks later]
9. Find copies of rebate that is marked as *should be received by now*
10. Find phone number on company that's supposed to have sent you rebate
11. Call phone # to find out why no rebate has been received.
12. Listen to someone giving you the run-around
13. Realize you are fucked
[branch #2: couple of weeks later]
9. Receive email about why rebate was declined. One of:
- UPC code missing.
- purchase not circled.
- unreadable submission.
- that address was already registered.
- other lie.
10. Goto 10 of branch #1
[branch #3: couple of weeks later]
9. receive email about rebate accepted.
10. never receive rebate and forget about it.
Rebates are a SCAM. And they bloody well know it. It's actually a very simple scheme: the majority of people will never send it in. Then the majority of people who get declined, will not follow up. At the end they are left with a very low percentage of actual payouts, many MANY weeks after the original purchase.
I applaud Best Buy and hope many will follow. (Fry's, are you listening?!).
Parent
Re:It's like printing your own money (Score:5, Funny)
10. Goto 10 of branch #1
No GOTOs here, please. Clean up your code.
Parent
Re:They DO need to do this (Score:5, Insightful)
I like rebates.
I really, really, *REALLY* like rebates.
What I dislike is feeling like I've been lied to, which is how the whole advertise the price after rebate thing makes me feel. Sure they explicitly say that the price is "after rebate", but that's *AFTER* the listed "price"... and it's just plain wrong, IMV. Rebates should simply not be factored into any primary listed price. If they want to, they can list the main price, then list the price after rebate immediately following. It will communicate the same information, in much more honest fashion, IMO.
Parent
Re:About (Score:4, Funny)
Parent