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Steve Jobs In Praise of Dropping Out

Posted by timothy on Mon Jun 13, 2005 09:06 PM
from the also-please-start-cool-companies dept.
atlacatl writes "Wired reports on Steve Jobs giving a graduation speech: 'Jobs, 50, said he attended Reed College in Portland, Oregon but dropped out after only eight months because it was too expensive for his working-class family. He said his real education started when he "dropped in" on whatever classes interested him -- including calligraphy.' The irony: that most students were graduating. I wouldn't invite him for a high school graduation. Imagine all the 'hard' work teachers, parents and guidance counselors put into brainwashing every kid that he/she must go to University." (Jobs was speaking to the graduates at Stanford University.)
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2005, @09:07PM (#12809026)

    Ug... Job's touting dropping out will undoubtedly start a flurry of "ask.slashdot" questions similar to:
    Posted by Michael in an alternate universe
    from the Still-in-the-parents-basement dept.

    hey d00dz, i wanna drop out like Steve Jobs did! i also wanna leet sysadmin job. i aint got no skoolin' or relevant experience. the job has to let me wear my floorscent green hair down to my ass and let me show my 130 tattoos. and don't forget the piercings in my eyebrows, nose, lips, tongue, septum and 2" holes in the ears. and it has to pay $100K a year or i aint geting outta bed and i'm 2 leet to start at the bottom and work my way up because I AM UNIQE!
    The world owes me a living! so what do u /.ers do?
    Thanks, Steve.
    • by selfdiscipline (317559) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:55PM (#12809405) Homepage
      one man's insightful is another's flamebait.
      Personally, think that many people are just resentful of the fact that intelligent people do not need to go to school to get ahead.
        • by selfdiscipline (317559) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:57PM (#12809780) Homepage
          Wow, you got modded as troll.
          I must've hit the nail on the head.
          Anyway, I'll probably finish my college degree, but I won't be resentful of you. Envious of you for finding a path to success that avoids college, though.
          I get really irritated when people talk about how valuable college is, because: I'm here, and I'm not seeing it. I guess you could say that "College is what you make of it," but I know that I could be making a lot more of my education if it wasn't for those pesky classes sapping my energy and desire to learn.
          Even for the average Joe, I really don't think college is that valuable. Most people learn things when they can find the information personally revelant, and the material in college is usually taught in such a dry, abstracted way that it's very difficult to find an immediate application in your own life. Also, what you don't use, you forget... and 4 years gives you plenty of time to forget.
          There are so many people that disagree with me about my views that it's hard not to think that I may be mistaken somewhere... but I really haven't heard any good reasons for why college is worth the cost, other than the fact that employers assume that a degree is a prerequisite to a position in their company (And that also may just be a rumor... I think studies have shown experience is more important than education for increasing your chance of getting hired).
          • by finiteSet (834891) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:52PM (#12810031)
            I am sure others could put together a better argument, but as someone who has really enjoyed my college education I'll throw out some ideas.

            People who might benefit by going to a university:

            1) Anyone who doesn't know what they want to do:
            Before I started college I had never heard of Linguistics. Because there were no other courses available, I took a Linguistics course my first quarter, and immediately loved it. I'll be graduating with bachelors in both Linguistics and Computer Science soon. Without going to a university (one large enough to offer Linguistics, at that), it would have been very difficult to stumble upon that passion. This broader background will help me to do the natural language processing research I am (now) interested in. Similarly, backgrounds in many fields (e.g. Biology, Physics, Geology, ...) complement a CS degree nicely. Getting such a diverse education is harder at a worksite.

            2) People who like variety:
            Depending on who you work for, the variety of the type of work you do will vary. By design, the courseload in a undergraduate CS program is varied, including architecture, ethics, algorithms, automata theory, and of course, programming. I've programmed in Scheme, Prolog, C, C++, C# over the past four years on projects including a networked filesystem, a unix shell, a raytracer, a scheme interpreter, and device device drivers in NetBSD and WinXP. All of these projects were great fun.

            3) People who like to challenge themselves:
            Anywhere you go, smart people will be able to find ways to challenge themselves. At a university, you have the advantage of a knowledgeable faculty who have plenty of pet projects they'd love to let you loose on. I've also found it very easy to get faculty to supervise research projects of my choosing. It's a great environment for getting a lot done, if you are self-motivated and hardworking. And there is something "pure" and refreshing about doing work without commercial motives - many great projects were birthed and/or nurtured in an academic environment.

            I was reluctant to go to college, under the same opinion that if you are smart enough, you don't need it (plus I was just lazy). However, I've found that the university environment is ideal for smart people: lots of challenges, lots of variety. Anyone with the intelligence, curiousity and passion to succeed on ther own would thrive in a good program. Sure, college is expensive. But, again, if you are that intelligent and motivated, you can get scholarships, assistantships, and grants.

            I am extremely grateful that I decided to go to college, it has been a great experience and worth every cent.
            • by ThePromenader (878501) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @04:35AM (#12810915) Homepage Journal
              I can say I sympathise. I am an Architect by degree, but today am working in the Graphic arts and photography fields. Thus, as far as my trades are concerned, I have no schooling at all.

              A while back I was looking for salaried work (instead of the usual freelance - which I've gone back to BTW), and all the ads were for looking for someone "imaginative and independant" but with at least a college degree. I couldn't help but thinking that what they were looking for was a perfect contradiction.

              Some time later I was speaking with a client who was looking for someone in his design department, and he was commenting on the schools his candidates were attending and judging them on that. I said to him: "do you want ideas, or conformism"? He looked at me and said "Ideas, of course." To tell you the truth I don't know who he hired but you get the picture.

              The whole educational system needs a workover, but this won't happen until the job market changes. If everyone is looking for independant, free-thinking people who really care about what others want, instead of the usual conformist self-interested self-preserving lemming we are trained to be, schools of course will follow suit and teach us WHY we're learning instead of just promising us that we'll have the world if we follow their orders. Today's educational system is very confusing and discouraging to anyone with ideas of his own.
        • by lgw (121541) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @12:19AM (#12810168) Journal
          You either need college or an extensive apprenticeship. Either is fine. Which one will be faster depends on how good the school is vs. how good the work environment is, but work environments tend to be a *lot* more focused.

          The problem, of course, is finding that magical first job that will hire you without either experience *or* education. Good luck with that. The most useful thing about college is the internships - the best way ever around the first job Catch-22.

          I will say that the code written by people who worked in tech support for years, then QA for years before finally making it into programming tends to be damn good. Nothing like living with the consequences of bad code for many years to build the proper values. A degree does tend to be faster than that path, however.
    • by adam31 (817930) <adam31 AT gmail DOT com> on Monday June 13 2005, @10:08PM (#12809511)
      Remember that this speech was given to students graduating Stanford... not high school. Whether a degree is worthwhile, in the context of the audience, is moot.

      The point of the speech is to encourage students to "ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING". Graduating isn't the top of the mountain, it's base camp. It's not an accomplishment unless they use it to propel themselves. blah blah blah. Potential is for losers.

    • by Andrew Cady (115471) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:00PM (#12809795)
      This is an absurd and offensive characterization. A huge number of competent people lack the professional qualifications, connections, or luck to escape underemployment. This is particularly true in the software industry today, as opposed to a decade ago.

      The disconnect between professional requirements and competence is a serious social problem. There are certainly incompetents without qualifications, but there are plenty of amply competent (potential) workers without them -- what do you say to those?

      Steve Jobs hardly offers a solution. He entered the business at a time when hundreds of new businesses testified to the potential for entry. Today, the barriers to entry are far too high for the mere ability to produce a superior product to suffice, and it is plain to observe that there are no new entries to speak of. Of course, this is the fate of every market; any serious economy of scale means coalescence to oligopy sooner or later. So, what do you say to today's young Steve Jobs who cannot find his way to a job interview?
      • by killjoe (766577) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @12:18AM (#12810164)
        I went over to the apple web site and did a few random searches for jobs there. Virtually every single one requires a degree although some say "or equavalent experience". Most flat out require a degree.

        If Steve applied for a job at his own company he probably would not even get interviewed.
        • by Andrew Cady (115471) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @12:10AM (#12810115)
          I don't think that you are correct about the barriers to entry being too high to start something new.
          I meant in that specific market (PC manufacture). Barriers to entry are small in new markets and progressively rise with time. There are of course always new markets, but even the initial barriers to entry are often prohibitive.
          There are technologies which have radically changed almost everything about peoples lives in the last 10 years. Do you really think that every product or technology is as good as it can be.
          Do you really think superior product is sufficient for success? (You must be new here!) Anyway, the nature of modern technique is that any new product can be duplicated by a larger company that will be able to achieve a much higher scale of production, acquire capital, materials, labor, and publicity at a much cheaper price, and afford a far greater up-front loss. There are certainly areas in which a new business is possible, but it requires a lot of luck to find yourself in one.
          I don't think that there has ever been a better time to start a new disruptive companies. Startup costs are at an all time low, your ability to communicate to the masses has never been higher.
          This is of course nonsense by any objective metric. The number of successful businesses being started today is smaller than ever and getting smaller. The best time to start a business was surely at the beginning of the industrial revolution, or any time before that. After industrialization, competence becomes a commodity.
    • by jonnystiph (192687) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:36PM (#12809952) Homepage
      Ug... Job's touting dropping out will undoubtedly start a flurry of "ask.slashdot" questions similar to:

      Your comment was funny, and well put. However, I am a Linux Sysadmin, with many tattoos (no piercings or long hair however). I can say that Job's had many of the right ideas. I dropped in on many college classes, because I didn't have the money either.

      The result, is a very well rounded education. Also the ability to teach myself skills that are relevant to the work place. The key is really self-drive. If you REALLY want to learn, there is little stopping you. College is great from some. Myself, I honestly prefer a self-teaching method. It really comes down to your choice of learning.

      So yes, there are many people out there that think they can avoid the work of college by dropping out and landing a "leet job", and there are at least a few that care enough to work even harder to teach themselves.
          • by Inspector Lopez (466767) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @01:34AM (#12810415) Journal
            Why cant the open source community get behind an open source college?

            It's a fair question. And here are some answers.
            • http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikiversity [wikibooks.org] is precisely such a thing. It is young, and parts of it that I have seen are quite lame, but the intent is good, and the structure is there. The content requires ... effort.
            • accreditation would be an issue. If you think that's silly, then contemplate what lack of accreditation or safety standards would mean for air travel.
            • Quite a few universities have stepped up to the "online degree" watering hole, and they have discovered that:
              • it is relatively easy to put up crappy content that no one will buy, and which will sully the University's good name.
              • it is remarkably expensive to put up quality content which is actually worthy buying; the cost rivals or exceeds bricks & mortar conventional courses.
              • there is usually very little incentive for regular faculty to participate in online course delivery, unless the enrollment is very high (why? because it is a lot of extra work). So, if you're looking for that extra special course in kinetic theory of plasmas with application to incoherent scatter, well, don't hold your breath.
              • Likewise, universities have "entrepreneurial" units to go develop stuff for online course delivery. This inevitably begets warfare with the Department that "owns" the course. Example: my university offered a "certificate program" of four courses in electrical engineering. This is just dandy, until the Electrical Engineering Department discovered (by accident) that someone else was offering their courses. The "entrepreneurial" unit hadn't quite bothered to check with the home Department...
            • To expand upon a topic in the previous list, the authoring tools for WWW-based content delivery are ... extremely poor, at least in relation to what you're trying to do. In a classroom, there is opportunity for detailed and remarkably complex interaction with a functioning expert system (the professor) as well as the other students. Just try to capture that functionality in some 'bot. Along those lines, see the recent James Fallows article explaining just how poor modern search engines are in answering questions. Google is wonderful! But it's also remarkably primitive compared to what we'd like to be able to do.
            • If you have ever wondered why there are so few really good WWW-based demos available, consider this: A really good, effective demonstration takes a minute or two to show to the class. However, it can easily take 12 hours of development time to prepare a quality demo that will be used one time, and fill 1 minute of lecture. It doesn't take long to realize that that development time is unjustifiable. (At my own university, there is the very real danger that the computer projection equipment will simply be out of order. There is no satisfaction in wasting 5 minutes of lecture time to show a 1 minute demo).
            • ... and for all you l33t h4korz or however you spell it, there is more to a college education than learning how to program good (as Derek Zoolander might have put it.) The economic forces which create a faculty work force continue to develop a faculty which, however haphazardly, values breadth and experience and (yes) literature and history in addition to being able to log on and hack.

              A college degree is not a commodity (yet); it is not like 87 octane gasoline dispensed at the pump. The college degree represents a period of time in which you study a lot of useless things in the hope that some of them will surprise you by being interesting; that the depressing or boring things will at least teach you how to wade through depressing or boring material for the rest of your life. It is a period of time when people stop being te
  • by Realistic_Dragon (655151) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:07PM (#12809028) Homepage
    ...but a lot more drop out because they are stupid.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2005, @09:19PM (#12809127)
      Larry Ellison (Oracle CEO) gave at Yale University to the Graduating class of 2000. What follows is a transcript of the speech delivered by Ellison at Yale University last month:

      "Graduates of Yale University, I apologize if you have endured this type of prologue before, but I want you to do something for me. Please, take a good look around you. Look at the classmate on your left. Look at the classmate on your right. Now, consider this: five years from now, 10 years from now, even 30 thirty years from now, odds are the person on your left is going to be a loser. The person on your right, meanwhile, will also be a loser. And you, in the middle? What can you expect? Loser. Loserhood. Loser Cum Laude.

      In fact, as I look out before me today, I don't see a thousand hopes for a bright tomorrow. I don't see a thousand future leaders in a thousand industries. I see a thousand losers. You're upset. That's understandable.

      After all, how can I, Lawrence "Larry" Ellison, college dropout, have the audacity to spout such heresy to the graduating class of one of the nation's most prestigious institutions? I'll tell you why. Because I, Lawrence "Larry" Ellison, second richest man on the planet, am a college dropout, and you are not. Because Bill Gates, richest man on the planet-for now anyway-is a college dropout, and you are not. Because Paul Allen, the third richest man on the planet, dropped out of college, and you did not. And for good measure, because Michael Dell, No. 9 on the list and moving up fast, is a college dropout, and you, yet again, are not.

      Hmm ... you're very upset. That's understandable. So let me stroke your egos for a moment by pointing out, quite sincerely, that your diplomas were not attained in vain. Most of you, I imagine, have spent four to five years here, and in many ways what you've learned and endured will serve you well in the years ahead. You've established good work habits. You've established a network of people that will help you down the road. And you've established what will be lifelong relationships with the word "therapy." All that of is good. For in truth, you will need that network. You will need those strong work habits.

      You will need that therapy. You will need them because you didn't drop out, and so you will never be among the richest people in the world. Oh sure, you may, perhaps, work your way up to #10 or #11, like Steve Ballmer. But then,I don't have to tell you who he really works for, do I?

      And for the record, he dropped out of grad school. Bit of a late bloomer.

      Finally, I realize that many of you, and hopefully by now most of you,are wondering, "Is there anything I can do? Is there any hope for me at all?" Actually, no. It's too late. You've absorbed too much, think you know too much. You're not 19 anymore. You have a built-in cap, and I'm not referring to the mortarboards on your heads.

      Hmm ... you're really very upset. That's understandable.

      So perhaps this would be a good time to bring up the silver lining. Not for you, Class of '00. You are a write-off, so I'll let you slink off to your pathetic $200,000-a-year jobs, where your checks will be signed by former classmates who dropped out two years ago.

      Instead, I want to give hope to any underclassmen here today. I say to you, and I can't stress this enough:

      LEAVE. Pack your things and your ideas and don't come back. Drop out. Start up. For I can tell you that a cap and gown will keep you down just as surely as these security guards dragging me off this stage are keeping me dow..."

      (At this point The Oracle CEO was ushered off stage.)
    • Of course, your post completely ignores the real issue: That they shouldn't have gone to college in the first place.

      The US has gotten so fixated on sending kids to college that we've lost sight of the reasons why we wanted them there in the first place. As a result, the quality of education has been declining, while the amount of debt our kids pile up before ever starting a job has been rising. And how many of those kids use their college degrees to do amazing things like sell real estate or become plumbers. i.e. What did that degree buy them other than a wad of debt?

      That's not to say that education is a bad thing. But people always get the best bang out of an education when they know they want it. Sending them to school before they know what they want to know only devalues it for everyone. Teach your kids to wait until they're ready. Then they can be sure that they really want to take on a college education.
      • by OSXCPA (805476) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:35PM (#12809666) Journal
        I left college after 2 years because I was bored to tears. Joined the Marines. Went back to college 6 years later *highly* motivated and enjoyed the heck out of learning - took CS classes for fun. My fellow undergrads, mostly straight from High School, hated their classes and hated me - I was the jerk who didn't listen to them whine about how hard their schedules were, or how much different classes sucked. My experience - most of them were too immature to appreciate the opportunity they had, and they had insufficient life experience to know that they should feel passionate about anything at all, let alone learning. Long story short - if you are burning up to go to school, go. If you aren't, be honest with yourself and do 'something else' until you figure out what you want to study. Don't let $ keep you back either - I worked my way through school. It is possible, but difficult - and I wouldn't have it any other way. Whatever you do, light your own ass on fire to get something worthwhile done - no one will teach you that. Hard work is it's own best reward.
      • by jrcamp (150032) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:11PM (#12809853)
        The fact is that most people will have to go to college to obtain a successful career. I would imagine that the dropouts who become billionaires would average out to be a statistical fluke.

        We live in a different world today than 100 years ago when the elite sent their sons and daughters off to college. Back then, those going to college didn't have to make a living. They already had all the money they needed. They went for pure academic reasons. Your argument is that these circumstances still apply today. They don't.

        Today you have a wide middle class instead of just the poor and the rich. Today regular people can go to college. Today regular people can gain successful careers from an otherwise poor upbringing. But today most people must go to college to obtain the standard of living desired.

        Sure kids should also want to learn new things and expand their mind. It is still an academic institution, after all. But you cannot discount the fact that the reason parents push their children into going to college is that they need it to survive. And, perhaps, to make sure they don't live in their basement for the rest of their natural born lives. Of yesteryear it may have been normal for children to live their whole lives in the ye ole log cabin.

        Things change.
        • That being said, I did learn something of great import while in undergrad. After getting mediocre grades throughout I somehow matured a little bit and taught myself how to learn. This was the most important thing I got out of undergrad.

          The part about this that I find so frustrating is that it's such an expensive lesson for kids. I was a home schooler myself, and my mother constantly emphasized that what we learned was less important than learning *how* to learn. While I'm sure that many would take that to mean that she didn't teach us, nothing could be farther from the truth. Rather, I *wanted* to learn many subjects because I had practical uses for them outside of the classroom.

          Do you have any idea how cool it is to look at a Trig book and think, "Oh, the raycasting engines I can make with this baby..." :-)
    • by khasim (1285) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Monday June 13 2005, @10:14PM (#12809543)
      He is a success story. He made a lot of money and is world famous.

      Looking back on his life, there will be certain items that he deems to be "important".

      Looking back on anyone's life will also yield certain "important" choices or events or whatever. Those are items that shaped your life.

      But that does not mean that someone else can imitate those choices and get a similar life. As you noted, some drop out because they're smart, but more drop out because they aren't. It isn't the dropping out.

      And I don't believe that Steve's "experience" with cheap college life and calligraphy would mean much if not for a certain Steve Wozniak.
    • by reporter (666905) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:36PM (#12809679) Homepage
      As usual, Steve Jobs is arrogant about his capabilities. Perhaps, Jobs should also discuss his fortunate endowments that other people do not possess.

      I am referring to physical good looks. The "Economist", a while back, reported on a study which indicated that height is important and seems to be correlated with financial success. So, too is good looks.

      A good example is Pamela Anderson. She has little acting talent, but she managed to latch onto television role after television role.

      Contrast her with Meryl Streep. Streep is less attractive but worked very hard to achieve what she accomplished.

      Jobs, like Pamela Anderson, is blessed with good looks and a winning personality. Most of us have probably worked with people with such physical endowments. People with them have a much easier time in life than people without them.

      Not surprisingly, the average height of a CEO is above the average American height. So is Jobs' height. Before he tells people how they should mimic him, he should first ask the people around him to forgive him for his arrogance.

  • Bah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13 2005, @09:09PM (#12809041)
    I think Jobs' success is in spite of the fact that he dropped out of college, not because of it.

    He also dropped acid in his younger days. That a good thing too??

    • Re:Bah (Score:4, Funny)

      by grub (11606) <slashdot@grub.net> on Monday June 13 2005, @09:11PM (#12809061) Homepage Journal
      He also dropped acid in his younger days. That a good thing too??

      Worked For Me. :)
    • Re:Bah (Score:4, Informative)

      by roman_mir (125474) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:12PM (#12809076) Homepage
      He also dropped acid in his younger days. That a good thing too?? - sure it is a good thing. He is different from you and I am different from him and you are different from me. Is that a bad thing? He needed to know what he needed to know. Maybe if he was a 'normal' person he would have never tried acid in the first place, but would he create Apple? I think not.

      • Re:Bah (Score:5, Funny)

        by martinX (672498) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:57PM (#12809778)

        He is different from you and I am different from him and you are different from me.

        Oh wow man I get it! I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

        goo goo gj00b :-}

    • Re:Bah (Score:5, Funny)

      by eh2o (471262) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:19PM (#12809128)
      Actually LSD is a great stimulant(*). Good for unhindered creativity and cultivating an appreciation for the big picture. In other words, "Thinking different".

      In fact, I'm suprised Mac OSX doesn't ship with a sheet of the stuff.

      (* do not try this at home)
    • Re:Bah (Score:5, Funny)

      by vwjeff (709903) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:28PM (#12809209)
      He also dropped acid in his younger days. That a good thing too??

      Well, that explains the original iMac.
      • Re:Bah (Score:4, Funny)

        by rampant mac (561036) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:35PM (#12809668)
        "Well, that explains the original iMac."

        Original? Bondi Blue? Try the Flower Power, man!

        DO NOT EAT THE BROWN iMAC! DO NOT EAT THE BROWN iMAC!

      • Not Feynman. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Grendel Drago (41496) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:16PM (#12809099) Homepage
        Richard Feynman is mildly famous for having said that "I love to think and I don't want to screw
        up the machine," electing to go with sensory deprivation instead of drugs to get a hallucinogenic experience going.

        --grendel drago
  • by zanderredux (564003) * on Monday June 13 2005, @09:09PM (#12809042) Homepage
    ...like "do not think that you, freshly-graduated students, are better than everyone else. It takes more than a degree to really stand out."

    Sounds like good advice to me!

  • by mjpaci (33725) * on Monday June 13 2005, @09:10PM (#12809058) Homepage Journal
    ...and it worked for him AND Gates dropped out of Harvard and it worked for him, doesn't mean that it OK for everyone to drop out.

    In general University/College is a GOOD thing. However, some people's paths take them elsewhere.

    --Mike
    • by Lemmy Caution (8378) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:51PM (#12809374) Homepage
      Neither Jobs nor Gates really made any great breakthroughs in science or engineering, either. Gates was a pretty good programmer, and Jobs had a friend who was a pretty clever hacker (i.e., Woz.) Gates had the connections and acumen, and Jobs had charm, a smart friend, and some cunning. Good for business. But frankly, I don't think either of them, or the other college-dropout-tech-millionaires, really go into the "great minds" category. Business success is about work, energy, networking, and leadership, things which are not the exclusive provenance of the university.
  • Good For Him (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mean_Nishka (543399) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:11PM (#12809073) Homepage Journal
    You know what? Good for him.

    I don't think the point of his speech was that dropping out is cool. It was that hard work and determination are what you need to be successful.

    Say what you want about Jobs, he's a gifted businessman who knows how to sell. He had the right product in the 70's at the absolute best time.

    Your mileage, of course, will vary :).

  • by figleaf (672550) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:19PM (#12809122) Homepage
    He cheated his friend and partner Steve Wozniak out of money before the early days of Apple.
    And when Wozniak set up his own company in 1986, Jobs threatened Wozniak's suppliers against doing business with Wozniak.

    Just because Jobs did something in his past doesn't mean that is a good path to follow.
      • by artemis67 (93453) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:19PM (#12809579) Homepage
        It's true, Jobs cheated Woz out of some money. [wikipedia.org] Back in the day, before Apple, Woz wrote the first Breakout game. Jobs asked Woz if he could sell it and keep half the money; he took it to Nolan Bushnell and sold it to him for $5000. Jobs then went back to Woz, gave him $350, and said, "There's your half!"

        Many years later, Woz (then rich and famous) was flying on a plane when he picked up a magazine and read the story for the first time; he reportedly wept when he read it.
  • by log0n (18224) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:21PM (#12809148)
    I never finished college and it has yet to hurt me professionally, financially or emotionally (partly I didn't have the money, mostly I didn't really find it useful for my goals to bother coming up w/ the money - and I went to a good 4 year east coast school with an extremely good comp sci program).

    If you're talented, smart, and *most importantly* not lazy, not having a degree doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. With those assets you're more than capable of working around and moving beyond the confines of the traditional 'system' most people end up dealing in (IMO, because they aren't talented enough, smart enough or lack the work ethic to do anything to change things).

    Degrees are nice and they do make joining the higher class system (white collar?) easier, but IMO, a lot of people also use degrees as a crutch for rationalizing avoiding the need to do anything meaningful.

    If you're talented, smart and actually enjoy hardwork, the world is your oyster. Persuing a degree may even be a distraction from you obtaining your purpose and potential.

    $.02
    • by Nasarius (593729) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:38PM (#12809270)
      If you're talented, smart and actually enjoy hardwork, the world is your oyster. Persuing a degree may even be a distraction from you obtaining your purpose and potential.

      Try doing real, novel science without a Ph.D. Sure, you can go into IT or even software engineering without a degree, but there's tons of interesting stuff that you simply won't be able to comprehend without years of school.

      I mean, have you seen the cool toys physicists get to play with these days?! ;-)

    • by GoofyBoy (44399) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:44PM (#12809324) Journal
      >If you're talented, smart and actually enjoy hardwork, the world is your oyster.

      Um.. the same could be said if you are good-looking, born with rich parents and get along with everyone.

      The point I think is that most people are not talented enough, smart enough, enjoy hardword enough, good-looking enough, have parents who are rich enough or get along with enough people and so need all the help they can get, including that university degree.
  • by TPIRman (142895) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:32PM (#12809240)
    To recap, more accurately: Steve said that he dropped out of college because it was too expensive, and it was the best thing that happened to him. He said that his "real education" didn't start until he took up classes again with a greater appreciation for their value in his life. He took calligraphy classes when peers were telling him that calligraphy had no relevance to career, but he gained a greater appreciation for elegance in ordinary things (sound familiar?). Etc.

    This is not an anti-education message. In fact, it is a message strongly in favor of a liberal-arts education. In Steve's original college career, he was going through the motions -- going to college because that was the thing to do. When he started learning again, he was doing it out of a personal desire to learn, and with more genuine motivations. And he was taking classes to improve himself and his outlook, not just to get nuts-and-bolts information that would advance his career. Steve's saying that you have to invest yourself in learning and appreciate its value where you might not expect it.

    Those of you who are oversimplifying this into a "street smarts" vs. "book smarts" thing have watched too much of The Apprentice. This was a speech about the personal value of learning and the importance of an open mind and broad perspective.
  • I dropped out... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ktakki (64573) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:41PM (#12809299) Homepage Journal
    I left music school after 5 semesters to go full time with a band. It wasn't uncommon there, since the freshman class numbered 1500 and there were usually about 150 to 200 graduates, mostly music education majors who needed the sheepskin.

    Two years later, I was driving a cab. I did that until I saved enough money to build a small recording studio, which I ran while playing in another band and doing live sound on the side. By the mid-'90s, I had a gig as a 3D animator and graphic artist, skills that had previously been hobbies for me. That led to a partnership in a media services company that also did software development. We sold out before the bubble burst.

    Right now, I'm vice president of a company that does system administration on a contract basis. Small company in a small market, but profitable nonetheless.

    Not having a degree pretty much precludes working for a large corporation, but I've never wanted to work for a big company. I do regret not getting a liberal arts education, and it's something I'd like to pursue soon, even though I'm in my forties. I'm looking to retire in about five years anyway, so I'll have the time.

    To make it without a degree, it helps to be in a field that doesn't require one (like the arts), to be willing to do menial jobs now and then (like driving and dispatching taxis), and to be able to teach yourself the skills you need (technical, entrepreneurial, etc.). I can't stress the last one enough: without the support of a company behind you, sending you to training seminars and paying your way, you have to be your own teacher.

    k.
  • by toby (759) * on Monday June 13 2005, @10:32PM (#12809643) Homepage Journal
    According to one audience member quoted on Macintouch [macintouch.com], Jobs "wondered aloud if computers today would have proportional fonts had he not sat in on that calligraphy course".

    If the late Jef Raskin had anything to do with it, they would; he recalls lobbying for versatile bitmapped displays and not hard-wired fixed width character generators, against Jobs and Wozniak.

    Sadly Jef is no longer with us to defend the account, but he left a detailed history, The Mac and Me [chac.org]:

    In my 1967 thesis, "The Quick Draw Graphics System," I took issue with the display architecture then in vogue. ... There were only a few CRT terminals at the Penn State computer center, and these could display only letters and symbols, usually in green or white on a black background. Hamstrung by specialized electronics -- in particular a circuit called a "character generator" -- that permitted no other use, they could not display graphics. One display at the center could draw thin, spidery lines on its large screen. With it you could do drawings that now seem crude, annotated by child-like stick-figure lettering.

    In this milieu my thesis was radical in suggesting that computer displays should be graphics- rather than character-based. I argued that, by considering characters as just a particular kind of graphics, we could produce whatever fonts we wished, and mix text and drawings with the same freedom as on the drawn or printed page.

    [Later, at Apple...]

    The other Steve, Steve Jobs, was a delight to talk to about less technical aspects of computers. His enthusiasm and business orientation were exciting. They were just starting on the design of the Apple II, and I tried to convince them that they should employ bit-mapped graphics and not have a character generator, but Woz thought that software couldn't handle the character generation task fast enough and Steve Jobs didn't understand why I thought it so important.

    I had a different vision of what a microcomputer should be like, and PARC's programmers and my own work had convinced me that software could do the job. I tried to convince Woz by working out the code to put bit-mapped characters on the screen and calculating timings by counting cycles, but the Steves were not open to the idea.

    The concepts I espoused were far from the mainstream of computer design and for all their mold-breaking thinking, Steve and Steve were very strongly conditioned by the minicomputers they had seen.

    Later in the essay, Raskin notes that Jobs was eventually persuaded to green-light the Apple II's "high res" mode. Only Steve himself knows if an enthusiasm for calligraphy influenced the decision... but even had he not, proportional fonts were already being designed into the expensive research workstations of the day, where the hardware budget was orders of magnitude greater than an Apple II's.
  • by nysus (162232) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:08PM (#12809840)
    For every success story you hear, the other 99,999 are never told. For every genius who dropped out of school to become CEO of an multi-national corporation, there are thousands of other geniuses who wound up broke and unhappy.
  • In other words (Score:5, Informative)

    by appleLaserWriter (91994) on Monday June 13 2005, @11:37PM (#12809959)
    Steve was trying to say that success comes from taking risks.
  • by trudyscousin (258684) on Tuesday June 14 2005, @01:27AM (#12810404)
    Thank you. I'm honored to be with you today for your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. Truth be told, I never graduated from college and this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation.

    Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. The first story is about connecting the dots.

    I dropped out of Reed College after the first six months but then stayed around as a drop-in for another eighteen months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out? It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife, except that when I popped out, they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking, "We've got an unexpected baby boy. Do you want him?" They said, "Of course." My biological mother found out later that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would go to college.

    This was the start in my life. And seventeen years later, I did go to college, but I naïvely chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and no idea of how college was going to help me figure it out, and here I was, spending all the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back, it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out, I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me and begin dropping in on the ones that looked far more interesting.

    It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms. I returned Coke bottles for the five-cent deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the seven miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example.

    Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer was beautifully hand-calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and sans-serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.

    None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me, and we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts, and since Windows just copied the Mac, it's likely that no personal computer would have them.

    If I had never dropped out, I would have never dropped in on that calligraphy class and personals computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do.

    Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards, so you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something--your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever--because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well-worn path, and that will make all the difference.

    My second story is about love and loss. I was lucky. I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents' garage when I was twenty. We worked hard and in ten years, Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4,000 employees. We'd just released our finest creation, the Macintosh, a year earlier, and I'd just turned thirty, and then I got fired. How can you get fired from a company you started? Well, as Apple grew, we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me, and for the first year or so, things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge, and eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our board of directors sided with him, and so at thirty, I was out, and very publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating. I really didn't know what to do for a few months. I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down, that I had dropped the baton as it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly. I was a very public failure and I even thought about running away from the Valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me. I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I'd been rejected but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over.

    I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods in my life. During the next five years I started a company named NeXT, another company named Pixar and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife. Pixar went on to create the world's first computer-animated feature film, "Toy Story," and is now the most successful animation studio in the world.

    In a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT and I returned to Apple and the technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance, and Lorene and I have a wonderful family together.

    I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful-tasting medicine but I guess the patient needed it. Sometimes life's going to hit you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You've got to find what you love, and that is as true for work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work, and the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking, and don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it, and like any great relationship it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking. Don't settle.

    My third story is about death. When I was 17 I read a quote that went something like "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself, "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "no" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important thing I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life, because almost everything--all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure--these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.

    About a year ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctors' code for "prepare to die." It means to try and tell your kids everything you thought you'd have the next ten years to tell them, in just a few months. It means to make sure that everything is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your goodbyes.

    I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor. I was sedated but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope, the doctor started crying, because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and, thankfully, I am fine now.

    This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope it's the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely intellectual concept. No one wants to die, even people who want to go to Heaven don't want to die to get there, and yet, death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It's life's change agent; it clears out the old to make way for the new. right now, the new is you. But someday, not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it's quite true. Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma, which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice, heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

    When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth Catalogue, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow named Stuart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late Sixties, before personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made with typewriters, scissors, and Polaroid cameras. it was sort of like Google in paperback form thirty-five years before Google came along. I was idealistic, overflowing with neat tools and great notions. Stuart and his team put out several issues of the The Whole Earth Catalogue, and then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was the mid-Seventies and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath were the words, "Stay hungry, stay foolish." It was their farewell message as they signed off. "Stay hungry, stay foolish." And I have always wished that for myself, and now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you. Stay hungry, stay foolish.

    Thank you all, very much.
    • Re:Guess what (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MyLongNickName (822545) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:14PM (#12809091) Journal
      Education != College.

      College can provide a wonderful education, if the student is ready for it. I started college when I was 16, but I was too immature even though the "test scores" said otherwise. I needed to grow up, get life experiences. I did these things (though I didn't realize it at the time), and graduated when I was 24.

      Had I gotten through school by the time I was 19, which was the pace I was heading, I would have had a college degree and a job I would have hated. Probably would have been found hanging by a rope by now. Instead, I love what I do, and life only gets better by the day.

      Summary: College is education for those ready to receive it. Same goes for life in general.
    • by Grendel Drago (41496) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:24PM (#12809175) Homepage
      High school was like that for me. Going to college---even state school---was like night and day. Suddenly, the kids who sullenly made it a pain in the ass to be there vanished. I got to learn from people who were really and truly competent; I had the time to take courses that just seemed cool at the time, that probably wouldn't be useful in any future job, but I took them because I wanted to learn about something.

      Yes, there were a few fools and charlatans teaching, but I dealt with it; I got to work with some of the cleverest, brightest folks I know.

      For me---who'd never known there were other geeks out there---it was a transformative experience.

      Clearly, your mileage may vary. But what you get out of school is, at the very least, proportional to what you put into it. Blaming The Man for not hacking it in school is pretty damn weak.

      --grendel drago
    • Re:school sucks (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Nasarius (593729) on Monday June 13 2005, @09:25PM (#12809180)
      Bullshit. Go to a research university, find a professor you like, and start doing interesting stuff. I'm just at a public university, but the classes are pretty good, and the work I do on the side helps me learn huge amounts of stuff about my field.

      You'll get out as much as you put in. If all you ever do is take engineering classes and do the required minimum work, you'll have wasted a great opportunity.

        • Re:school sucks (Score:4, Insightful)

          by GoofyBoy (44399) on Monday June 13 2005, @10:08PM (#12809512) Journal
          >but what are you supposed to do for the 12-16+ years of school before you're allowed to really get into what interests you.

          Get into stuff that interests you?

          Seriously, you can't pick up a book and read? You can't do things on your own? Does the only thing that interests you at age 12 involve pressing buttons on multi-million dollar toys and then reading the a series of numbers on a print out?

          Who exactly are you waiting for to give you permission to do what you want to do?

          Stop waiting to be spoon-fed.