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Slashback: Start, Trash, Explain
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Aug 11, 2005 06:59 PM
from the questions-before-work dept.
from the questions-before-work dept.
Slashback tonight with more on the Microsoft start page project vis-a-vis Google's similar one, a wee $40 million slap on the wrist for Amazon over shopping-cart patent infrigement, new animals for the CodeZoo, and a strong denial that WikiPedia has announced a more stringent editorial policy. Details on these stories and more, below.
What's done is done, and in a certain order. MSN.com general manager Hadi Partovi writes:
Thanks for the note!"A few days ago I read your Slashdot post about start.com.
Thank you for the promotion :-). Meanwhile, I wanted to make sure you know that the work we've been doing on the start.com project actually predates the Google personalized page. I manage a tiny incubation team that has been building start.com since November, and it was first live on the Web in February, 3 months before Google released their personalized page. Of course we are missing some capabilities that Google has, and vice versa. It's a tight competition. But I'm emailing you because our team takes a lot of pride in its innovation. You may point out at a lot of place where Microsoft is following competitors, but if you track the functionality and UI changes that the companies have made over the past 6 months, this has clearly been a place where Google has been following Microsoft's lead.
(Our main engineer on the project has written a bit more about this to respond to your post.)
Anyway, I'm not sending this to be defensive. Heck, I have a lot of work to do to bring an innovation culture to the MSN organization and in many areas we have our work cut out for us. But I guess I want my small incubation team to get credit for being the leading innovators on this one small product :-)"
Always clean out the trashcan. dotpavan writes "The Register and Cnet have this report about Kai-Fu Lee not cleaning his recycle bin at his previous workplace and now MS has stumbled upon some interesting document, which shows that Google anticipated the MS move, and had planned top put him on a leave of absence or have him as a consultant to thwart any attempt of MS getting him back."
Amazon Settles Patent Suit For $40M theodp writes "In today's SEC filing, Amazon.com disclosed it will pay $40 million to settle an e-commerce patent infringement lawsuit that was reported earlier on Slashdot. The terms of the settlement also provide for dismissal of all claims and counterclaims and grant Amazon a nonexclusive license to Soverain's patent portfolio."
29+36 more = 65 vector drawing apps. Anonymous Coward writes "There were many useful comments made for 29 Vector Drawing Programs. After incorporating most of them, the revised column has 65 Vector Drawing Programs."
And each after its own kind. chromatic writes "As seen on the O'Reilly Radar and announced at OSCON 2005, CodeZoo now lists Python and Ruby components. CodeZoo is a human-edited directory of useful, well-maintained, and redistributable software components in various languages. (Slashdot previously covered CodeZoo's launch.)"
The chair recognizes Mr. Wales for a point of clarification. brajesh writes "There has been news on Slashdot and others about Wikipedia announcing tighter editorial control. It seems that everyone jumped the gun. Jimmy Wales, a founder of Wikipedia, has clarified his stance on the idea of freezing stable content on Wikipedia. Apparently, [Jimbo writes] 'I spoke in English, and this was translated to German. Then the German was translated back to English, and then translated again into the Slashdot story.' Also, 'There was no "announcement." We are constantly reviewing our policies and looking for ways to improve, but we have not "announced" anything. We don't even really work that way ... if you know how Wikipedia works, it's through a long process of community discussion and consensus building, not through a process of top-down announcements.' This has also been covered on Ars Technica."
Google Earth not a security risk after all. mister_tim writes "In a follow-up to yesterday's story about ANSTO's request that Google censor images of Australia's only nuclear reactor, the Australian government has now come out and said that Google Earth poses no security risk. Australia's Attorney General has come to the view, also noted by many /. readers, that the Google images have been available for several years from other sources and add nothing to the existing publicly available data. Chalk this one up as a victory for common sense."
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Competition == Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if only we could get some nice eye candy from the Yahoo! folks.
Re:Competition == Good (Score:5, Informative)
Yahoo!'s testing ground for its new stuff.
Parent
Re:Competition == Good (Score:3, Insightful)
my.msn.com (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Competition == Good (Score:2)
proper destruction of documents (Score:5, Insightful)
Apart from the fact that the one at my work has a "donations for hearing aid fund" on it (put on there by the guy who sits right next to it).
They're great: they turn whole pieces of paper into lots of tiny things this big -->.<--
Re:proper destruction of documents (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:proper destruction of documents (Score:3, Informative)
Re:proper destruction of documents (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: proper destruction of documents (Score:2)
Ain't no way you're getting anything informative out of the other end of a fire cyclone.
MSN did some innovation! (Score:4, Funny)
Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:4, Interesting)
Wikipedia doesn't always do well on controversial topics, but I don't think freezing articles would necessarily help. In fact, WP already has a procedure to freeze articles, and it's generally used when an article is experiencing a revert war [wikipedia.org], or a wave of determined vandalism. In the case of a revert war, my experience is that the freeze is an admission of failure, and the frozen version of the article typically sucks to high heaven. An article that gets to that point is one that's already become a sterile battlefield, and nobody has been able to do any constructive work on it for a long time. Freezing doesn't help; it just gives official recognition to the fact that the article is dysfunctional anyway.
I think the most positive thing WP can do right now is to eliminate the time-honored custom of allowing anonymous edits, and institute some kind of moderation system (yes, a la Slashdot) so that sock-puppet accounts can't be used to mess up an article over and over. For instance, there was recently a horrible mess over the article on apartheid, where one anonymous editor kept insisting on inserting text about Jews in an effort to blame apartheid on the Jews. It caused massive conniptions, because he was dialing in from different IP addresses several times a day, and using sockpuppet accounts.
Another example is an artist named Gabrichidze, who has been spamming lots of articles (Mermaid, Plato, Pop art,...) with his (non-copylefted) artwork. Once people got wise to him, he started creating sockpuppet accounts to throw people off the trail.
Parent
Re:Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:5, Insightful)
Which would cause them to degenerate into groupthink (yes, a la Slashdot).
I've seen way too many cases in which posts that say little more than "X sucks" (where X is any of the usual things hated by the majority here) get +5 Insightful, while well-written posts defending X and presenting cogent arguments get modded down into oblivion. Meta-moderation fails due to the same groupthink. ("Yes, nobody intelligent or moral could really be defending X, so I agree with the moderator that it's Flamebait.")
Slashdot is viewed as heavily biased in many circles, and for good reason. If WP wants to be taken seriously, they should avoid copying Slashdot.
Parent
Re:Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:2)
I wouldn't claim that Slashdot moderation to individual posts is always fair -- obviously it's not --- but I think anybody who isn't a complete jerk will see their karma trend up over time until it maxes out and bobs around 50 forever. The point of what I'm suggesting isn't to make some articles or edits privileged over others, it's just to allow sockpuppet accounts to be distinguished from accounts of people who actually have an ed
Re:Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead of 20 people all saying "yer, that was funny, +1" and instantly making a rather amusing comment blasted up and down like a yoyo (After the overrated mods kick in)
you can have many more people saying "Funny=3" without the overrated mods. Concensus means its less likely to be over modded and doesnt bounce around.
Re:Encyclopedias are meant to be edited (Score:3, Interesting)
hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Those who live by the sword die by the sword.
Yeh but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Wrong comment? (Score:3, Interesting)
The comment [slashdot.org] that Hadi Partovi points us to as a comment by his main engineer doesn't seem to be the right one. The one he linked to is by http://slashdot.org/~yagu [slashdot.org] and says the following:
for me, the last line on the page:
©2005 Microsoft  
kind of says it all... In their hurry to rip off the competition, they even forgot a semicolon ... Tsk-tsk!
That criticizing clearly doesn't seem to be coming from an MSN guy. Who really is the informed MSN engineer posting/clarifying on /. and what really did he say?
Re:Wrong comment? (Score:3, Informative)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157898&cid=13
Re:Wrong comment? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe you're looking for the post that begins with:
And ends with:
Even further legitimizes this behavior.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, I depressed, $40M will only further strengthen the incentive on this patent behavior - I wish amazon stuck it out. Not that I care about amazon that much, but it only raises the barrier of entry for the little guys - especially on stupid shopping cart technology.
FYI Soverain held patents on "shopping cart" technology.
Here's another article on it:
http://news.com.com/Amazon+pays+40+million+to+set
Retractions (Score:2, Funny)
Since half of those amount to retractions, does that mean there will be a reduction in dupes for awhile?
/It's a joke. I'm not that new here.
Amazon being sneaky... (Score:5, Insightful)
Big companies like Amazon can afford to pay for these patents, but small companies cannot. They are losing money by paying for these things, but if they raise the cost of doing buisness beyond a certain point (if everyone has to pay millions to use patented technology in order to run an eccommerce site), they can knock out a lot of competition. There will be no chance for the mom and pop store selling used books can hope to compete with Amazon, because they won't be able to afford the startup cost or liability.
I think a lot of big companies are encouraging this abuse of patent laws in order to squash competition from smaller companies who don't have a few million to spare.
Re:Amazon being sneaky... (Score:2, Insightful)
With Amazon rolling over and paying these guys - who'll be next up at bat in order to get a few easy million?
Not emptying the recycle bin?!?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Obligatory Napolean Dynamite quote)
-everphilski-
OK my bad it was a hard copy (Score:2)
-everphilski-
Empty the recycle bin??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Empty the recycle bin??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Empty the recycle bin??? (Score:2)
Following your lead? (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe, but if you look at the original start.com.. http://www.start.com/1/ [start.com] its just a simple search bar. The second rev http://www.start.com/2/ [start.com] adds some dhtml functionality, but only the third rev, http://www.start.com/3/ [start.com] adds the identical dhtml section moving feature google has... probably after google came out with theirs.
Re:Following your lead? (Score:2, Insightful)
Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
It's nice we have a recap but... (Score:2)
In addition the story on the Recycle Bin sounds like an attempt to get suspicious news out to the public to poison the pool of jurors or such, However it's nontheless interesting, but again I'm waiting to hear the other side of the story.
However this is nice, because
Minor correction to vecor program list: (Score:2)
Innovation you say? (Score:3, Insightful)
This particular one has three.
Why does everything spoken by anyone associated in any way with microsoft have to have so many copies of the word "innovation" in it? I submit to you that their use of the english language is as "innovative" as they are, simple rehashes and reusing the same old tired components, perhaps rearranged in a different way, with nothing actually new.
Microsofties: quit using the word "innovation", it just makes you look like a drone in the collective.
confused about innovation again? (Score:2)
The first version of start.com looks like Google has looked for years. Later versions look like what My Yahoo has offered for years. And start.com added drag-and-drop after seeing it on Google. I'm sorry, but where exactly does he think that Microsoft has been leading?
Mr. Wales and retranslation (Score:2)
- Greg
Re:CodeZoo (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Undoubtedly (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mis-re-translationified (Score:4, Funny)
"A penny, which is stored, is an acquired penny."
Parent
Re:Mis-re-translationified (Score:2, Funny)
1.Save a Penny
2. ?????
3.Profit!!!!
Re:Mis-re-translationified (Score:2)
The penny is the penny is won by the preservation. (Score:4, Funny)
"The penny is the penny is won by the preservation"
Parent
The classic case (Score:4, Funny)
English->Russian->English
"The vodka is great but the meat is rotten."
Parent
Re:The classic case (Score:3, Funny)
-
Re:Honey, take out the trash.... (Score:2)
Why we love Google (Score:3, Funny)
I think only Google itself has 10.
Google is popular because, quite simply, it works, and works well.
The company appears to be a benevolent giant, full of geeks and geek friendly.
And they are a very important player on the Internet.
I probably average 2 dozen Google queries a day or so - it is an extremely useful website which makes the Internet as a whole a lot more useful.
Also, the story of Google is the story of some very smart people becoming rich because of their knowle
Re:Start stopped? (Score:3, Informative)