Next Generation of iPods to have Wi-Fi?

Zephyr14z writes "A TMCnet article states that Apple has filed a patent for iPods that can purchase music wirelessly over the internet. This was an expected feature in the Zune, though it turns out not to be true. 'While this could be an effort to fight the software giant and its product directly, it should be noted that Zune's built-in Wi-Fi will be limited to the file sharing between devices with no direct Internet purchases from the handheld,' says Campbell."

Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune?

[P(0)(!P(k)+P(k+1)) (1012109)]

Odd, first of all, that this article appears in YRO (because it involves a patent?); second, and odder still, is Susan Campbell's commentary:

Apple and its iPod didn't earn its throne in the portable music player industry because it had the easiest to use player that offered the best song selection. This success also didn't come because it offered the most competitive price. Apple has been able to dominate this market because of its marketing campaign, pure and simple.

O RLY? As far as I can tell, Susan seems to be a ressentissante Microsoft shill:

Apple did borrow a winning strategy from Microsoft in keeping its technology proprietary. [Emphasis mine]

Suffice to say, even the slickest market campaign can't account alone for iPod's success; just look at the PS3 or Zune: you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes all the time.

That said, if Apple does introduce Wi-Fi (or an iPod cell-phone, for that matter), it will be on its own time; and not because it's scared of Zune.

Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune?

[mgv (198488)]

        Apple did borrow a winning strategy from Microsoft in keeping its technology proprietary. [Emphasis mine]

Suffice to say, even the slickest market campaign can't account alone for iPod's success; just look at the PS3 or Zune: you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes all the time.

Perhaps more importantly, if apple has the patent, microsoft doesn't

It might be more of a blocking exercise than anything else - apple has a perfectly good model for sales, and might just be doing this to prevent other models from happening.

Probably being paranoid here

Michael

Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune?

[sydsavage (453743)]

Although the nature of the patent doesn't portend this, a WiFi enabled iPod would dovetail nicely with the forthcoming iTV. You would now be able to play music and videos stored on the iPod over your stereo (and TV) with no cables attached. You could keep it close by, and the iPod becomes the remote, as well as the storage medium.

Be afraid of the Zune

[mveloso (325617)]

The reason to be afraid of the Zune is simple: Microsoft has a ridiculous amount of money to spend:

http://thingsguyslike.blogspot.com/2006/10/microso ft-home-entertainment.html [blogspot.com]

$5bn in losses so far, and still no profits at the Home Entertainment division of Microsoft. If they wanted, they could give Zunes away for 10 years. It's hard to compete against that kind of financial muscle.

Re:Be afraid of the Zune

[pubjames (468013)]

If they wanted, they could give Zunes away for 10 years. It's hard to compete against that kind of financial muscle.

This is a common argument about Microsoft. However, it is only partly true. Microsoft has shareholders. Microsoft cannot just throw money away, it has to be something that will potentially bring big profits in the future.

Re:

[shaneh0 (624603)]

If I was in charge at MSFT, I'd never give away Zunes. I'd give away the music.

How many people would buy a Zune over an iPod if it included 50 free songs? Or maybe 5 free songs a month for 3 years.

Another idea would be an "iPod exchange" program. Turn in any working iPod and get a free Zune w/ more storage. (turn in a 60gb iPod, get an 80gb Zune, etc). Similarly, buy a zune and get free credits for any music purchased thru iTMS so you can download the songs from the MSFT store for free.

Obviously the iPod ex

There's lots more better out there

[RiffRafff (234408)]

There's tons of better sounding players out there. Try an iRiver or Cowon with some decent headphones. The sonic quality far outstrips that of Apple's iPod. These other players just aren't "hip," apparently.

Re:There's lots more better out there

[BurningBridges (1013063)]

They are also, IMO More expensive, and more difficult to use, as a rule. The general public doesn't notice the difference unless you show them, their friends all have one, and they are easy to use, so they get an iPod. Personally I am a big iRiver fan :)

Not in my experience

[NixLuver (693391)]

I've had iRivers, Creatives, Sansas, Sonys - no Cowan, so I'll have to give it a wash on that one. But all in all, I've had eight different manufacturer's digital audio player, and frankly, my iPod sounds the best by far. Side-by-side plug/unplug cycles convinced me and many others who happened to be around for a test. (Started at a party where a friend said his MDplayer smoked the iPod for audio quality... even he agreed that he was wrong after a direct plug-unplug audio test). None of them has had the functionality of my iPod, nor the sound quality. I don't care about 'hip' - in fact, it was that fact - that the iPod was 'hip' - that kept me from buying one until last year.

Re:There's lots more better out there

[2nd Post! (213333)]

Try an iPod with some decent headphones. The sonic quality far outstrips that of Apple's headphones. These other players just aren't USABLE. Truly. It took them several iterations after the release of the iPod to approach the ease of use of the iPod.

Re:

[EggyToast (858951)]

Don't think of it just as portable music in the sense of outside, or moving around noisy places. Think of it as portable in the sense that you can take your computer library anywhere. That includes to work if you work a job where it's OK, or waiting for a plane in a quiet lobby. Or over to a friend's place, to plug into their stereo. Or, perhaps most common, simply listening to music in a room that's not the computer room, such as the living room, or relaxing on the porch.

So yeah, quality is importan

Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune?

[SEMW (967629)]

>just look at the PS3 or Zune: you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes all the time.

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. Slashdot readers may have a good idea of the real issues behind the PS3 and Sony's tactics, especially, but Slashdot readers are not a significant proportion of Joe Public. To the average consumer, "Sony" still conjures up images of reasonably reliable shiny metal consumer electronics, not RIAA lawsuits, rootkit CDs, or the Blu-ray DRM debacle. Sorry to tell you, but it's the advertising and PR campaigns alone that will make or break the PS3; it's how well they can sell that their product is really worth $600. Same applied to the Zune. What Slashdot readers consider "the real issues" will factor into it little if at all.

Re:Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Zune?

[UnknowingFool (672806)]

Apple and its iPod didn't earn its throne in the portable music player industry because it had the easiest to use player that offered the best song selection. This success also didn't come because it offered the most competitive price. Apple has been able to dominate this market because of its marketing campaign, pure and simple.

I would have to say that Apple of all companies, did market the iPod better than their competitors. They made an MP3 player (which at the time considered a geek's gadget) cool. But they also made the technology easy to use for the average consumer. Considering the alternatives when the iPod came out. Flash MP3 players that could store 32MB or 64MB. That capacity is well under two CDs, and portable CD players were cheap. Also it was a pain to get music onto them. Or something like the Nomad which had more capacity (6GB) but couldn't be used as a hard drive and was the size of a portable CD player.
Enter the iPod. It can be used a portable hard drive. It fit in your pocket. It could store enough songs to last for days. It was easy to use. It was easy to sync (and it got easier later). Is it a surprise it took over the market. And Apple unlike some of their competitors kept innovating? I had a Rio 32MB player. The only thing that the next model added was more capacity.

Apple did borrow a winning strategy from Microsoft (News - Alert) in keeping its technology proprietary. However, this strategy doesn't seem to be enough to keep the fruity giant on top as consumers are beginning to tire of the iPod and iTunes restrictions. This patent could either protect Apple's vision or tarnish its appeal in the eyes of the consumer. Either way - watch out for more news from Johansen and DoubleTwist Ventures as we have likely not heard the last from him.

The factor behind Apple's DRM is not Apple. It is the music companies. I don't think Apple cares if you use your iPod to share all your music with everyone. But the RIAA might. As for restrictions, these are not unique to Apple. PlaysForSure limits you as well. And MS new Zune DRM is identical to Apple's strategy.

Re:

[ceoyoyo (59147)]

Yes, most people are complete retards. Except you, of course. We should listen when you say that the iPod interface sucks, it's overpriced and under featured, and everybody else in the world is an idiot. Why? Well, you said so, of course!

This is kind of a crazy idea, but do you think, just maybe, other people in the world have, say, different tastes, needs or wants than you do? Nah, too out there hey? They just think they do. Retards.

Oh yeah, most people haven't seen anything but an iPod either. Eve

please...

[Pliep (880962)]

Apple has many patents, including this one. That does not mean that it immediately will be applied in any of Apple's products. Stop spreading rumours based on patents.

need cable anyway?

[spectrokid (660550)]

You need to hook it up anyway to recharge. Just using Wifi to download music means they will have to cram a lot of iTunes/iStore functionality into the ipod. Byebye simple userinterface... How about security? Either they make you enter your credit card number with the clickwheel(????) or else it gets "linked" to your iPod on the Apple servers. Lose your iPod and the thief can shop around on your card... The whole point about the iPod is that all complexity is parked in iTunes.

Re:

[bilbravo (763359)]

I agree this is stupid, but not sure about the credit card fiasco. I entered my credit card through Apple's website when setting up an Apple ID. Then iTunes only uses your Apple ID. I suppose they could get your password from it somehow, but more than likely it would just link the iPod to your account and verify that way.

I see lots of issues with this plan.

Got a cell phone?

[*weasel (174362)]

People buy music and games on their cellphones all the time.

They'll connect their CC# to an iTunes account, to the iPod, and not think twice about it.
Losing their pod is a potential issue, but so is losing your phone.
People just don't seem too concerned. They should probably be a bit more concerned, but they're not.

Apple could even toss a 5 or 6 digit pin on there and an X retry lockout if they wanted, passing the 'security' on your ATM or CC itself, without a serious UI hassle.

And the click wheel is good e

Huh?

[el_womble (779715)]

So iPods are successful, in part because they understood that what people need, above all else in a music player is simplicity. So you can't manage you music on the iPod, you manage them on your computer.

Now I can see that it is possible using the new search facility to access and select songs from the iTunes store (if the new iPods had wireless), but surely one of the great things about an iPod is that you can't.

Just because you can use a scroll wheel for text entry and pointing doesn't mean that you shoul

Finally

[LiquidCoooled (634315)]

CmdrTaco must feel important that they got round to listening to his ideas.
I wonder if they will increase capacity as well ;)

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Wireless is the future

[LaughingCoder (914424)]

This move is long overdue. Hopefully Apple will do a better job than Microsoft did. It is *so* 90's to have to dock your player just to get music into it. The technology exists today to make a very capable wireless media player, what is missing is someone (Apple?) to make it useful and functional. The possibilities are endless. Imagine "Mall Radio Stations", audio lectures or supplemental material distributed wirelessly to all the students in the classroom, having a playlist at a party that is a composite of all the wireless devices in the room/house. Let the next wave of portable music players begin!

Re:

[Ash-Fox (726320)]

The technology exists today to make a very capable wireless media player

I don't know.. I looked at my sister's mobile phone -- you just right click a bunch of files you selected, click send to -> [phone name]. And.. that was it. Music was uploaded (via bluetooth) and immediately available. Seems the technology is already here.

what is missing is someone (Apple?) to make it useful and functional.

Is this another one of those things where you need to download their proprietary software that works so-so unde

Re:

[LaughingCoder (914424)]

Seems the technology is already here.

That's what I said. It's not a technology issue. And when I tout the use of wireless, in my mind the *right* way to do it is to seemlessly blend cellular wireless with WIFI. Imagine a device that could do both (some PDA phones can do this) ... you start a download on WIFI as you leave the house and get into your car. Your WIFI signal drops and the download application automatically opens up a cell connection and continues the download. At the same time your car's radio

copying old things

[Lumpy (12016)]

Soniqcast Aireo had wifi and you were able to get audible content wirelessly at hotspots with it. No it's technicaly not music but it's the same thing at it's core. I could access my audible library, download a book and then have it on my player if I forgot to grab it at home I could grab it at starbucks on my way to work.

Finally...

[Espectr0 (577637)]

...Taco will be happy. Wi-Fi. More space than a Nomad. Not Lame.

I thought a patent had to be non-obvious.

[pipatron (966506)]

Seriously. How could they get a a patent on this? Is wireless the new "on the internet!" when it comes to patents?

• I'm going to patent displaying a list... on the internet!
• I'm going to patent buying music online... wireless!

Re:

[MichaelSmith (789609)]

How could they get a a patent on this?

TFA doesn't say what the patent actually claims but my bet is it is for something quite specific. Perhaps it comes down to the issue another poster raised: how do you retain the pc-ipod relationship if the ipod is out at starbucks buying music?

Maybe the ipod has to log in to the itunes server as the copy of itunes on the pc.

Manual On/Off?

[tenaciousdRules (518041)]

Unless it has an external on/off switch, I would never own one of these. Imagine walking into a retailer, and you get an advertisement on your ipod for "the GAP does Christmas" CD they are blasting on the stores over-engineerd sound system. Better yet, it would be a hackers dream to have people walking around a crowded public place with these things turned on.

I'm surprised

[CDPatten (907182)]

that MS didn't already file this patent. I bet they did, and the author of the article missed it. I'd check but I don't have time to search through the mess, the swamp of MS patents for the next 3 weeks...

They beet apple to the WiFi punch, and I'm sure they thought of this feature and just didn't have time to build the infrastructure.

Hmmm

[Altima(BoB) (602987)]

This makes me wonder if the ability to enter text in the latest version of the video iPods (So that one could search for tracks by name/etc like one does in iTunes) was just introduced so that people could enter wifi network passwords for a future version of the iPod.

Stop thinking about downloads

[dweebzilla (871704)]

What about streaming content.

I'd love to have my ipod receive Internet radio.

Zune Wifi

[bmajik (96670)]

I think it's important to remember who is behind the Zune. Yes, Microsoft. But more specifically, the Home & Entertainment Division (the Xbox people). Who, by the way, posted a 70% revenue increase last quarter.

Keeping this in mind (that this is an MS product, and that it's the H&E people behind it), just because the Zune _software_ doesn't do something today (or at launch) doesn't mean it won't do it for ZuneOS "SP1"

After all, Xbox Live didn't come out for 1 year after Xbox was shipped, and X360 1080P support was issued as a software _patch_ on the 360 after Sony thought they could use it to make noise in the competitive space. Progessive Scan dashboard support was another software patch on the original Xbox. Those products _had_ to get out in the market place at the right time to be viable, the cut list must have been severe. Everyone knew the hardware was capable of more than what it launched with, and as the Xbox team got their feet under them, and heard the real-world feedback, and had a chance to breathe a bit, some of the more interesting features that didn't make the original bar started to show up.

I'm telling myself that the current idiotic 3/3 DRM model and the lack of wifi sync on the Zune are temporary things. They'll be corrected via a software update after the Zune launches (even if it means a Linux-based "software update" ;) )

This is what I am _telling_ myself (and as an MS employee, I hope it turns out to be accurate) but I don't think i'll actually put my money down until I see it happen.

Re:

[yivi (236776)]

You can play your iPod while connected to the computer. Just click on the "eject" button in iTunes, and it will keep charging from the USB connection, but the interface will be "unlocked" so you can use it.

And the comment about the battery meter is just stupid.

Re:

[tomstdenis (446163)]

Click what from what windows program?

I don't run Windows, and I'd never install iTunes even if I did.

And no, the comment about the battery is not stupid if you're sitting at an airport waiting for a 10 hour flight, you have to gauge whether you can listen to music while waiting for the flight or leave it for then....

Part of the problem with the battery life is the amount of buffering the thing does. It tries to read entire songs into memory and shut off the HD, FOR EVERY SONG YOU PLAY. Which is wasteful i

uh, ok

[by Anonymous Coward]

If you run linux or some other *nix like I do (I'm assuming so since you say you dont have itunes), just type "eject $PATH_TO_IPOD_DEVICE" for example "eject /dev/sda" Thatll do the trick.

Oh, and a quick check using df (if you have some form of automounting going on) or a check with dmesg when you plug it in should give you the path

Re:

[tomstdenis (446163)]

ah, neato trick. It's not like Apple documents this....

Good to know.

Tom

Re:

[Anubis350 (772791)]

No problem. Wierdly it posted anon the first time, even though I swear I was logged in

Re:

[hcdejong (561314)]

Part of the problem with the battery life is the amount of buffering the thing does. It tries to read entire songs into memory and shut off the HD, FOR EVERY SONG YOU PLAY.

If it didn't buffer songs, you'd have a 2-hour battery life instead of 10 hours. Seems like an acceptable tradeoff to me.

Re:How about play in USB mode?

[sydsavage (453743)]

Part of the problem with the battery life is the amount of buffering the thing does. It tries to read entire songs into memory and shut off the HD, FOR EVERY SONG YOU PLAY. Which is wasteful if you skip from one song to the next to find the perfect one for the time being....

This is mostly false. The iPod fills it's buffer with the next songs in the playlist, not one song at a time. Even if it's on shuffle play, it reads ahead the next songs it has cued up. Twenty minutes of buffering is usually five or six songs, depending on song length.

You are correct that choosing a new song or playlist that wasn't cued will force the harddrive to spin up again, but that's what playlists are for, specifically the on-the-go playlists. In actual usage, when I do skip around a bit, I haven't noticed a significant shortening of battery life, but I don't find myself switching around after every single song, either.

Re:

[tomstdenis (446163)]

The Ipoo interface does not allow playing when plugged in. And who says I use windows? My Linux box DOES NOT automount USB drives. So technically Linux would have seen it's a SCSI device [which is what USB disks are btw] and not done anything further.

I hook it up to the puter because after my commute to work I want to charge it. It would be nice to be able to listen at the same time.

I have OTHER mp3 players that can accomplish just that task. One of them is a Nintendo DS :-)

Tom

Re:How about play in USB mode?

[shmlco (594907)]

It's designed to play music when you're away from your computer. If you're at your computer you could, like, you know, use your computer...

Linux boxes CAN play music, can't they???

Re:

[Ash-Fox (726320)]

Unmount the drive, fucktard. It's not a server.

Some other MP3 players can actually play music even when they're mounted. I also don't see why it shouldn't be this way. The device is designed specifically for playing music in the first place.

Re:

[azieniki (1010665)]

If it is for purchasing or browsing the Itunes Music Store via the internet then wireless is faster than most peoples internet connection, b or g. So downloading a song shouldn't take any longer straight to the ipod.

Re:

[spectral (158121)]

And with that new enhancement to iTunes to allow people to get the (purchased!) data back off an iPod... it seems pretty obvious that this is where apple is heading. Previously, you would have been able to purchase it to the iPod and then it would have been stuck there. No more.

Re:Wireless

[sydsavage (453743)]

Unless your laptop fits in a jacket pocket, I'm afraid I'll have to respectfully disagree. Being able to purchase music and video content from iTMS while unchained from any desktop or laptop would be a HUGE leap. This would also open the door to owning (and populating) an iPod without needing a computer in the first place.

Re:What's the big deal with wireless?

[aplusjimages (939458)]

Most /. users probably wouldn't use the feature that much, but luckily for Apple, theres a mass of suckers out there who can't stop downloading their songs by the pound. What better way to get some money is for those people to be able to download the songs, while away from their computer, like while at the mall after browsing through a music store.

Re:

[sydsavage (453743)]

Gee, I don't know... maybe you would have to enter a password to make a purchase using your stored credit card info? Kind of like how iTunes already works? Yes, I know you can opt to save your password in iTunes, but if this was a really a valid concern, they could remove that option from the iPod.

Just think of the stolen iPod recovery potential, too. "Mr. Smith, the iPod you reported stolen yesterday just logged onto the network in the Starbucks at Central Ave. and Main St. The device has been disabled, an

Re:Breaks the 'pod' model

[hcdejong (561314)]

As of iTunes 7, you can move authorized music from the iPod to the computer. This was announced as a way to sync the iTunes library on two computers, but it'd also be useful for music that was downloaded to the iPod via wireless.

Re:

[Chris Pimlott (16212)]

That's just like Apple, too; making a change that didn't really strike anyone at the time, only to reveal that it was in preparation for a bigger change later.

Re:

[argent (18001)]

I don't know, but one thing I have noticed is that you can get some cool features in flash mp3 players in Asia that you can't get in the US that I've been able to tell. One is the ability to "dock" two players together by their USB ports and transfer songs that way. Hmmm...