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Professor Bans Laptops from the Classroom
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Wed Mar 22, 2006 01:07 PM
from the luddite-heros dept.
from the luddite-heros dept.
An anonymous reader writes "USAToday is reporting that students are up in arms over a University of Memphis Professor who has decided to ban laptops from her classroom. Earlier this month Professor Entman sent an email warning to her students to bring paper and pens to take notes and leave the laptops at home. From the article: '"My main concern was they were focusing on trying to transcribe every word that was I saying, rather than thinking and analyzing," Entman said Monday. "The computers interfere with making eye contact. You've got this picket fence between you and the students."'"
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I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Most free thinkers make bad sheep/employees/citizens/etc. That is why it is shunned so much in the US educational system and workforce.
I work with computers for a living, but honestly, my personal problems or interests don't need the scale of computers I work with.
To me, staring at a screen, typing every word that a prof says into a Word document is a stupid waste of technology. Isn't that what sound and video recorders are for? Although its been a while since I've been in a college classroom, when I was there, most of my professors taught from PowerPoint presentations and I scribbled the extra information on the slide printouts that were given before the class or at the beginning of the semester/section or whatever.
Personally, I learned more by asking questions of a professor and interacting with them inside and outside of the classroom. But then again, I was/am a free thinker.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a way to convince yourself that you're doing work, without actually doing work. Then, when you fail the course, you can whine about how much work you did, and how hard the course must be, and how evil the prof is, and how it's everybody but your fault. Not that that's the reason, of course, but it's one of the effects.
A lot of people confuse "work" with "progress". Not all work is equally valuable. Some, like what you mention, is downright worthless.
(You also get a lot of people mixing up the two concepts when they talk about the "fairness" of MMORPGs. "Fair" becomes defined as everybody doing the same amount of work, not being able to make the same amount of progress. This is one concise way of expressing the fundamental flaw in nearly all current MMORPGs that makes me completely uninterested in them, because this is the root cause of the "grind". And I don't care how MM a game is, I've got way better things to do with my time than pay somebody for the ability to grind.)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
In math/engineering classes (or most of them) it is hard to take notes without a pen and paper(tablet) anyway.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this news? None of my professors (engineering) like students using laptops in class, unless we're doing some sort of computer assignment. Several of them make us put them away (or at least close the lid) when they start lecturing.
I find it distracting when I have my computer on, but it's also distracting to the professor. Try talking to a room full of people busily browsing the web sometime.
Of course, in engineering, you'd be crazy to try to take notes on your laptop. Engineering paper and pencil is the way to go.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to know a lawyer who as a law student modified a briefcase so he could conceal a tape recorder to tape his law school classes in the early 70's. From the tapes, he would the lectures to paper and then sell copies of the transcribed lectures to other students. While he was at work making deliveries, he would listen to the tapes instead of the radio as he drove.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want a laptop to record what was said? A micro recorder is cheaper and doesn't weigh as much. I never bothered to conceal it ether. I just walked into class and set it on the desk. I would use it later that night to review the notes I had taken.
Personally, I would never bother to carry a laptop to school unless I had all the books in pdf, or some other format, on it. I was averaging between 20 and 30 pounds of books between classes. Adding another 6 to 10 pounds? No thanks.
To bad someone can't come out with a nice ebook reader about the size of a good text book, a standard ebook format for all the books, and sell it for under 200 bucks.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Funny)
You're wasting your time on
</reminder>
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Funny)
remind them there's a actual world outside Cyberspace.
LIAR!
The daystar! It BURNS us!
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
However, the professor in question wants people to switch from laptops to paper, basically making them less efficient at note-taking, giving them even less time to pay attention to what she's saying. I don't think she understands that side-effect.
In any case, if she's worried that note-taking is a distraction, why doesn't she just prepare all her material ahead of time, provide it to the students, and then go over it in class in detail? That eliminates 99% of note-taking, causes them to pay attention to her, and makes sure each student gets the same printed information. It seems as if she is putting artificial restrictions on her students in an attempt to achieve a goal without doing anything different herself.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes a laptop makes you more efficient at entering and storing vast amounts of information.
This is normally a benefit.
Her concern, as I read it, is actually not new or common to laptops.
When taking notes, it has LONG been that some students will try to just write everything down word for word. This is VERY HARD to do on paper unless you are a very fast writter.
So most students are forced by inefficiency to become more internally efficient. They learn to listen and think and then take notes based on their own thoughts.
Thus, the difference in efficiency of information transfer between voice and blackboard and paper forced students to think more and learn how to learn in that manner.
Notebooks have, according to her assertion, tipped the scale and allowed more students to be really bad note takers. And by BAD I mean ones who note too much without thinking. Now you really can just focus on entering all the info, without thinking about what you are doing, because it takes all yoru concentration to do it.
In a way it makes sense. I would love to see some studies done to test her assertions.
-Steve
Parent
Another Good Way (Score:5, Interesting)
He would lead a discussion of the topic by prompting questions and answers from the students. During the discussion, he would create (on the chalkboard) a running outline of the topics with some details, but not EVERYTHING we talked about. As he wrote on the board, we students wrote in our notebooks, and then went back to the discussion.
I learned more from this method than any other I have used since.
Mr. U., your teaching methods kicked ass!
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
I usually agree with the intent (get students to pay attention in class and focus on learning, not web browsing). But the technique is horrible. This kind of thing comes from the mentality that "yet another law will fix it." In this case, the law only applies in the classroom, but it is still a law.
Did the professor start a lecture one day in class and say:
"I've noticed a number of you are using laptops during the class. I like the idea that you are enhancing your learning experience and perhaps taking notes on your laptops, but I would appreciate it if you would keep their use to a minimum during the lecture to avoid distracting other students. If you feel that you must take notes on a laptop for the entire lecture, please make use of the back three rows in the lecture hall to avoid disturbing the other students."
Often, we can solve problems by simply *communicating* with people, rather than implementing some blanket policy that bans laptops. A simple request from the professor goes quite some way, and she could even suggest that if people feel strongly they come see her during office hours to discuss it.
The teacher/student relationship is one of give and take, and both should be willing to communicate to work out a arrangement that benefits the other and themselves. The simple act of talking about a topic is underrated, I think, often in favor of laws, rules and policy.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Leave the university, and if it continues happening at other schools, leave education in general. The second I lose control of my classroom, I'll go into industry and triple my salary.
I teach because I love sharing knowledge and educating people. I know how to teach. Most of my students barely know how to learn. The second they are able to dictate policy in my class is the second I stop running the class.
Most skilled educators would do the same - if students tried to "unionize" and run their universities, our education system would be even shittier than it is now. Education is not a business, and students are not customers - it's a fundamental pillar of our society, where those who have knowledge pass it on to those who do not. Try to take away the money, and we'll end up going back to the days of unpaid apprenticeships, where the student practically begs to be taught, and lives like a slave for years while learning.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
My ego? Get a grip - most professors' salaries are pathetic compared to what they could make in industry. You don't go into academia because of ego, you either do it because you love research for the sake of knowledge, or you love teaching. I happen to love both.
However, I cannot do my job when some obnoxious nineteen year old is trying to run my class. If he knew what the hell he was doing, he wouldn't need to be in my class in the first place.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Interesting)
My aunt once told me that teachers have the biggest egos in the world; I found it rather interesting that she would say this, because she was an English teacher for more than 20 years. However my recent personal experience has supported this. I got a new boss not too long ago and couldn't seem to get along with him no matter how hard I tried, which was something I'd never experienced before. Every time I disagreed with him on a technical issue, he would get so mad you could practically see steam shooting out of his ears. I explained the situation to a friend of mine who worked as a project manager for another company and he asked me to tell him about my new boss. I said, "Well, he's done some programming, some management, and he teaches programming part time at the local university."
"Hold it right there", my friend said. "Every time I've had to work with someone who came out of a university teaching environment, it was very difficult. The reason why is because they come from an environment where they're always right."
He had hit the nail right on the head.
Realizing what type of person I was dealing with, I backed off and quietly tried to just do my job. However after about a month of him constantly looking over my shoulder, rushing me, and criticizing my work, he got what he wanted: I made a mistake on a project. He then pulled me into the VP's office and wrote me up for "poor performance". I then told the VP that I wanted to go back to my old department (a demotion which I gladly accepted), and have since been working happily for a nice boss who has a strong technical background and, more importantly, a laid back personality.
Lesson learned.
Parent
Re:Not really... (Score:5, Insightful)
The school backed me up with this student 100%. You want to know why? Because the kid was a spoiled jackass who deserved to fail a class and learn a lesson about respect. That's not me being pompous, it's me putting a stupid kid in his place.
You know NOTHING about what the student's complaint was. You know nothing about the way I was treated. Yet you assume I was a pompous and self absorbed asshole because I removed a student who not only questioned my authority, but disrupted my classroom and negatively affected the learning experiences of the other twenty people in the room. Be careful when you make assumptions about things you don't know, you might find you come across as the self centered, pompous one.
Parent
Re:Not really... (Score:5, Insightful)
Any sane ombudsman will see right through the "I'm paying your salary" bullshit and side with the professor who threw out a disruptive student. On the other hand, professors who grade people who disagree with them lower (especially in contentious topics) should be roundly smacked around by that same ombudsman. Each case will be different, and just because you've met some awful professors in your day doesn't mean that the gp is one of them.
The teacher is responsible for maintaining a learning environment for everyone in the class. One spoiled child can and should be thrown out of a class in order to restore a decent learning environment for the rest of the class. Even more on-topic, ubiquitous wireless internet means that most students with laptops are not paying attention, but are browsing the web, taking care of personal business, etc. If you aren't participating in the class, take yourself elsewhere. Removing the laptops from the classroom is just about the only way to limit that sort of highly disruptive behavior and actually give other students what they're paying for.
Regards,
Ross
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
You are paying for the privilege of learning from an expert in a subject.
Precisely. But I learn my way, not my professor's way. There's an awful lot of teachers who know quite a bit about their subject matter and absolutely nothing about how to teach a group of students, or absolutely nothing about how people learn in general. It's my personal experience that many of those same teachers have (1) no interest in technology as a learning assistance tool, (2) engage in willful ignorance when such benefits are presented to them, and (3) attempt to control their classroom with an iron fist. I may be paying for the privilege of learning from an expert, but that does not give them carte blanche to give me orders. There is a wide gulf between maintaining order in a learning environment and attempting to discipline students because of perceived inattention; one is required, the other a pathetic display of inflated self-worth.
If something is interfering with her teaching, she has every right to remove it from her classroom.
There's a wide gulf between someone playing a game with the sound up in class, obviously distracting students, and students that are taking notes on a laptop (or, god forbid, amusing themselves during a boring stretch.) If a teacher is so self-absorbed as to feel slighted when not receiving the complete and full attention of every person in the vicinity, it's time for them to find another profession. Personally, I think a two-week stint as a corporate trainer to a bunch of managers would do many professors a world of good.
It's nice that you're a Graduate Student and all, but you've obviously not learned proper respect for your professors yet. Grow up!
After so many years of school -- and that many awful, expanded-ego professors -- respect is something I don't automatically give just because someone's standing behind a lectern. Respect is something I give to people, not positions.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
If you were in the same class as me, I would prevent you from using your laptop. I can't think with clicking noises. I paid for that class too, and I have a right to learn just as much as you do.
This is like letting cigarettes in public places. It is not the smokers right to light up, it is the public right to breath clean air.
Your clicking is noise pollution. It is no different than starting a conversation with the person sitting next to you, and disrupting the class. The professor has every right to maximize the learning for all students, not to protect the rights of one to use his laptop.
You have every right to take your hand written notes and type them in your laptop after class. You don't have the right to do it during class when you can disturb others.
Parent
Man I'm torn. (Score:5, Interesting)
I got in trouble though. You see, at least 3 of my profs wanted us to not only keep notebooks, but turn those notebooks in at intervals for review. WTF?
So...I saved them all was word documents, and turned them in as a zip file. The profs were note amused.
They wanted sprial-bound notebook and handwriting. How could I prove my notes were my own otherwise?
I had to take it to the school's administration and finally they accepted my notes...begrudgingly. I wound up failing one of the classes however because my notes were not..."lengthy" enough? It seems that despite I type faster than I can handwrite (and I can actually ready my typing later!), my notes seemed shorter and smaller because well, they WERE smaller. I was using a variable-width font, about 10 point to be exact. I was so mad. I told her to count letters or words if she must to compare against other students, but to no avail. I think more than anything she wanted to make an example out of me.
Seems I was actually just way ahead of the curve and getting bushwhacked for it.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Looks like you're "damned" then. Good luck presenting the "but I'm paying for it!" argument to the deans. Have fun dropping out of school to pursue your ideals.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
No way. Not at the university level. It is up to the student to experiment and find out how they best learn. It is incumbent on the prof to support various learning styles.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Informative)
Actually he's paid to do research and asked to teach on the side.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
The job of a post-secondary teacher is to present information in the best way they can; receiving it is the choice of the student.
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:I Wouldn't Call Her a Luddite (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
What's next? (Score:5, Funny)
don't fear (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, I'm sure they were thinking and analyzing, but more likely about how to win the current game of Minesweeper or Solitaire.
obvious solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:obvious solution (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a growing trend for schools to offer podcasts [google.com] of lectures as well as information about the admissions process.
Parent
Emailing Students (Score:5, Funny)
Can I say "good" (Score:5, Insightful)
i) Too few of them are good enough typists to focus on whats being said properly.
ii) It's almost impossible for them to copy down diagrams or any complex equations, or make decent marginal notes.
iii) It's much noisier than pen and paper, and paper is easier to highlight and annotate.
iv) They remember the content better if they make pencil notes, and type them up later.
Re:Can I say "good" (Score:5, Insightful)
1) It's easier to bring along one laptop instead of several binders full of dog-eared papers to take notes.
2) I use Perforce to keep what's on my laptop in sync with what's on my desktop, so there isn't much of a fear of suddenly losing my notes.
3) There's no shuffling around binders and pages of notes to find the note you're looking for with a laptop, everything is organized directories and I can search through them.
4) I can easily refer to supporting material during the lecture. Profs often have the class slides posted online, and sometimes we're stuck with a horrible projector that won't focus, I can simply download the notes and follow along on my own screen without having to sit at the front of the class.
Parent
Purpose of lecture time (Score:5, Insightful)
Ideally the purpose of class time is for the professor to lead the students to understanding. The book has the facts and figures and whatnot, but for many students just reading the book doesn't make things click. Every group of students will need to be led to understanding a slightly different way, and class time with the professor is a chance for that to happen. It's supposed to be a session of brain activity, not mere transcription.
Re:Purpose of lecture time (Score:5, Insightful)
And, provide me feedback if they are getting "it" or not. As a teacher, you don't get that 'real time' if the students are blindly trying to transcribe every word or copy every mark on the board.
Parent
I agree (Score:5, Insightful)
To counteract this I try and provide as much material as I can - lecture slides available on line before class for example, so they don't feel there is a ton of information that will be lost if it isn't written down immediately. This improves classes immensely.
Thinking in lectures (Score:5, Insightful)
Laptops Don't Always Improve Learning (Score:5, Insightful)
I graduated just a year ago from a decent size University (10,000 students) and since I was getting a Computer Science degree I saw laptops in use in a lot of my classes. I'd say that 50% of the time people were playing video games of some sort or another, playing FreeCell or Solitaire, watching DVDs and generally using the laptop to do anything *but* take notes. This in turn distracted everyone else around them as they focused on whatever the person on the laptop was screwing around doing instead of on class.
I'll be honest, some of these classes were boring and I was occasionally envious of the people with laptops, but when I went to do homework or study for a test, I actually had some notes since with just pen and paper there is not a lot you can do to amuse yourself unless you have a really active imagination or like doing the box game or playing Tic-Tac-Toe for hours on end.
Now, some will say "but not everyone will use the laptop to screw around", and that's not my point. The point is, SOMEONE will, and that will distract everyone else. I've seen it happen and anyone claiming that it doesn't happen is lying.
So basically, I applaud her move and think that not every class should allow laptops in the classroom as sometimes technology is more of a hindrance than a help.
Tablets (Score:5, Insightful)
After a few tests and faculty round-tables, it was decided that the models that will be provided at steep discounts to students will be tablets just because of the "picket fence" effect that is mentioned in the article.
Furthermore, tablets encourage the use of a stylus which means that (many?) students will still be taking notes by writing and analysing instead of typing.
Make Lecture Notes available (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, some professors did not want the service in their classroom since they thought students would skip class. These were usually the same professors who got upset that the entire class was busy scribbling away writing verbatim notes. I found that the lecture notes were not a replacement for going to class. Often the class time had more participation and discussion that was as important as the notes.
--Keith
For those of you who haven't been to law school... (Score:5, Insightful)
First year law classes aren't computer science lectures where everyone sits passively and takes notes. Law Professors practice the socratic method. Which means that the professor calls on a student and asks that student a question. If the student answers correctly, then the professor asks another question. Then the professor asks a question which he knows the student can't answer. Then the professor yells at the student and asks why he is a moron. Then the professor takes the case book and beats the crap out of the student with it. A notebook computer doesn't fit into this routine.
I'm exaggerating slightly, but thats what a lot of first year law students go through.
I think that she teaches first year civil procedure. This is a very hard class that covers the mechanics of filing a law suit. It is very tricky and nuanced and even experienced lawyers don't understand it fully. Since she co-wrote a treatise about Tennessee Civil Procedure it is not surprising that according to Ratemyprofessors.com, Prof. Entman "expects you to be able to recall every detail from every footnote from every case you ever read." Yikes!
Interestingly, Prof. Entman was a social studies teacher in the late 60s and early 70s for 7 years before going into the law. I imagine that notebook computers don't fit into her conception of a learning environment.
Laptops are a huge distraction (Score:5, Insightful)
So here I sit, quietly, with my 99 cent Meade folder, 30 cent pencil, and a dollar's worth of notebook paper, taking far more detailed and accurate notes than anyone with a $2000 laptop. What these law students need to learn is that sometimes the most technologically advanced solution is not always the best solution. And cheers to the professor for realizing this.
X
Re:This is a teacher? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because most teachers are bad teachers.
For that matter, most students in the US system are bad students. The way many lectures SHOULD work (especially in the sciences) is, you read the relevant section of the text before class, and then keep the text open while the teacher lectures and fills in the gaps in your understanding. In my experience TAing in the US, very few students have the discipline to actually prepare for lecture
Parent
Re:The Professor is arguably correct in the theory (Score:5, Insightful)
Thing is - people are learning in different ways, what works well for her may not work so well for me and vice versa.
Parent