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Digital Music Downloads Too Expensive?
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:33 AM
from the suspect-the-source dept.
from the suspect-the-source dept.
threeofnine writes "The Sydney Morning Herald has an article written by a copyright and technology lawyer asking if we are paying too much for digital downloads. From the article: 'Parallel imports are unavailable in the Australian digital market, however. Australian consumers cannot purchase downloads from iTunes or Wal-Mart in the US, which are often cheaper than downloads available here, without a US-issued credit card. And restrictive licensing conditions imposed by copyright owners also limit the sale of digital downloads across international borders. For both reasons Australian consumers miss out. And retailers cannot buy downloads from overseas and resell them here, even if it is worthwhile for them to do so. In a recent analysis, the prices of Australian-made CDs of artists such as Bon Jovi, REM and Robbie Williams were compared to those of legal parallel imports. It was found that the local product was as much as 300 per cent more expensive.'"
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both sides of their mouths. (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting key (and somewhat conflicting) points from the article:
and:So, in addition to lobbying in the United States to encumber music and entertainment beyond any previous restrictions (to the point of unusability if they get their way), the music industry tries to layer artificial geographical artifacts over the internet to further increase their (already obscene) profits. I find it interesting the entertainment wonks get away with this under the "protection of artists and intellectual property" canards juxtaposed next to the argument that many people lose their jobs to outsourcing as a result of the "global economy" and the breaking down of these alleged geographic boundaries.
Seems like those in power define by expedience.
(As an aside, another tasty tidbit in the article:
I find this an interesting question -- maybe when Americans are also charged a fair price for music (they aren't today). Sigh.Re:both sides of their mouths. (Score:5, Insightful)
Both support the assertion that the recording industry is still artificially keeping prices up.
Maybe someone will start up a business to issue low value American credit cards to foreigners so they can buy from iTunes. Even if it makes digital downloads 200% more expensive, there's still a savings.
Parent
Re:both sides of their mouths. (Score:4, Interesting)
I can confirm for a solid fact that this is extremely true. I can have on-demand CD's printed off Lulu for $5.75 a pop. On-demand printing is proportionally 150% or more expensive than mass-produced printing, which I also know by comparing what it costs to print off my book versus what a trade paperback goes for in the store. So imagine what the real per-unit cost of a CD is, factoring in just about everything else (and the fact that the record companies' "advance" to the band usually deducts all of the costs of recording the actual music), it is probably below $3.00, and very likely below $2.00. We're talking a ballpark markup of about 1,000%
Parent
Re:both sides of their mouths. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a few questions for you. How would they determine how much of the sales to provide for each sales region if there was only one store? Which region would be used to determine the price? How would you handle currency fluctuations? Why should some regions suffer with lower margins in times of currency market instability while others profit more? If prices fluctuated with the currency markets, should wages do the same?
I really don't think the slashdot community understands some of the basic tenents of local economics and how the internet plays into it. If you can a company without a presence in other countries, then you can ship anywhere and charge the same price+shipping to everyone but if you have a presence in each market, you have to be able to cover your margins in those regions with slightly differing prices. Also, if you are going to have universal pricing of physical goods, chances are that your customers will have to foot the bill for import duties.
In closing, I really don't blame the slashdotters themselves but rather the clueless media which have led people to believe things which are not true like that the internet will bring down all barriers to trade. Such notions are naive and simplistic because they cannot apply to every business model out there. The only way you could have a single market is if you had a single currency and a single set of labour practices/taxes.
Parent
Re:both sides of their mouths. (Score:3, Insightful)
Good points. I am not an economics expert and your point about that is well taken. I do understand at an elementary level some of the tenets you describe, and would have factored that into a longer post, i.e., IANAEE (economics expert), but the entertainment industry is playing loose with the rules here.
So, my post was thinner than it could have been but I still think underpinning the industry around downloads and digital media is a sinister and conniving Star Chamber, and they're not there for their ind
Re:No, you have no grasp of economics (Score:3, Insightful)
Music cann
Re:OT: Your sig... (Score:3, Interesting)
How many years has it been since you last used Linux?
I've done several kernel updates, and there was no recompiling anything. Just a simple apt-get install linux-image-2.6.whatever does the job, and even updates GRUB by adding the appropriate entries for the new kernel.
Granted, a kernel update does indeed require a reboot to take effect. But that's a good idea anyway, just to make sure nothing went wrong. And if it does break somethi
Why not... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why not... (Score:3, Informative)
I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Informative)
Like Stew77 said, emusic [emusic.com] is the way to go if you don't want to support the big 'evil' labels. Give your money to independant labels, not dubious "too good to be true" Russian imports!
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Insightful)
Importing music to the US is legal. Until that changes download from AllofMP3 is entirely legal.
"AllOfMP3.com don't pay the appropriate royalties to their artists."
If the artist is registered with ROMS, (The Russian equivelant or RIAA), they get royalties. It's up to the artist. If they want to get paid for sales in a certain country, they must actually *do* something about it. Mon
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I'll tell you why not! (Score:3, Informative)
For example, a _LEGAL_ copy of localized (without English content so it is not playable without the knowledge of Russian) Doom3 costs about $5 here.
Why? Because the other alternative is to "sell" your software for $0.
Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:2)
Re:Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:5, Informative)
17 USC 602(a)(2) says that "importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time" is NOT infringement.
Thus, if you "import" one song from say, allofmp3.com, or from some other foreign server, for personal use, and do not distribute it to anyone else, the RIAA could not legally come after you.
Parent
Re:Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Too expensive? I don't think so... (Score:5, Interesting)
This point should be stressed: "There is no private right of action for violations of customs law." Thus, the RIAA still could not come after an Allofmp3 user directly.
The RIAA is going ballistic over allofmp3. But they are trying to handle it via the governments involved, not directly with the users. Considering that the RIAA has no problem suing customers, I find that very informative.
My guess is that the RIAA does not want to risk an unfavorable ruling regarding 17 U.S.C. 602(a)(2). Can you imagine if that occurred? Suddenly downloaded music from foreign servers, even on P2P, would not be infringement. The shit would really hit the fan.
Thus, the RIAA's first step is to get Russia to shut the site down but pressuring the US government. When and if that fails I'd guess that they'll have Congress amend 17 U.S.C. 602(a)(2) to specify that it does not apply to downloaded music. Heck, their probably already working on that! Once that is amended, then they'll start suing Allofmp3 users.
Parent
selling music by the meg? (Score:4, Interesting)
iTunes is too expensive
Re:selling music by the meg? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:selling music by the meg? (Score:3, Insightful)
Selling copies of music by the meg is a lot like selling copies of paintings by the yard. Which they do. The cost of production is bandwidth & servers for copies of music, paper & ink & presses for posters. Tack on a bit for creators and there you go. (not getting into whether allofmp3 does it properly)
Torrents have no Borders (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it any surprise that the Australians are abandoning the commercial ship and are now sailing from the Pirate Bay? [thepiratebay.org]
No connection (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No connection (Score:2)
Stop the RIAA (Score:5, Informative)
To The United States Congress: We are the customers and former customers of the member labels of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). We love music and will gladly pay a fair price for it, but we are outraged by the RIAA's tactics in suing ordinary Americans for filesharing....
Let's slashdot the Senate and House Commerce!
Re: Stop the RIAA (Score:4, Insightful)
Spin works both ways.
Parent
Re: Stop the RIAA (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't have any problem with buying music. I still buy CDs, even. But the instant some inane, pathetic copy protection pops up when I stick it into my computer, I go nuts. I'm too lazy to burn my junk to MP3. I just want to listen to it while I work, but this isn't allowed in RIAA world, because I might possibly allow other people to infringe on copyright with my legitmate copy.
Screw them. They cross the line all the time, f
Prices never go down, only up (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prices never go down, only up (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, when CDs first appeared in the 80s they were a fair bit more expensive than LPs, and only moved back to more normal levels as production capacity was ramped up. The cost of the medium was never a major part of the overall cost of producing either an LP or a CD; the real question is why CDs are two to three times the price that an LP was in the mid-80s, given that the price of cocaine (which is where the majority of the recording industry's costs lie) has remained virtually static.
Off topic, but true story: at the Stonehenge Free Festival in 1984 a friend of mine, feeling thirsty, approached an ice cream van which had cans of soft drinks on display. He asked "How much is the Coke?" to which the vendor replied "£50 a gram".
Parent
Why is this even news? (Score:2, Redundant)
Don't believe me? Compare your cost of cable TV to people in other local cities.
This has also been the case for years with things like software, movies and textbooks where the producer will likely lower the price in some areas and raise it on others.
This is simple economics of pricing an item at what the market will bare. Don't like spending so much on a ____? Don't buy it then!
Why they pay more (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why they pay more (Score:3, Insightful)
hm (Score:2)
Seriously, though - they're 'diiscovering' that record companies are using predatory pricing, collusive behavior, and generally refusing to recognize that the 'costs of distribution' in the digital age doesn't really explain their bajillion-percent markup?
Teh?
Cross Border downloading (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cross Border downloading (Score:3, Interesting)
Not at all. Price is determined by how much people are willing to pay.
In a truly competitive commodity market, price will approach the cost of goods sold, but that is not a result of determining price by tacking on some profit to the COGS -- it is a result of needing to underprice your competition while maintaining prof
My Unpopular Opinion (Score:3, Interesting)
Are record companies greedy and evil? You betcha.
Are they gouging customers and musicians both? Right-o.
Has everyone's perception of value been altered by p2p downloads, cracked software and other Internet-rendered amenities?
Without a doubt.
-1 Flamebait.
Re:My Unpopular Opinion (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you think your comment is flamebait? Do you think that this statement is controversial:
Has everyone's perception of value been altered by p2p downloads, cracked software and other Internet-rendered amenities? Without a doubt.
I think that statement is true, and I don't think we should attribute to it any negative connotation. I believe that the perceived value of information and creative expression was over-inflated before the digital age. Now we are seeing such things drop to their actual value, which is quite low.
I'm not saying that information is worthless. Far from it: knowledge is power certainly. What I'm saying is that previously there were boundaries on information exchange (some very real, like the difficulty of printing books, and some artificial, like copyright). Now that the boundaries have been lifted, our "perception of value" has indeed been altered. We now understand what a low cost there is on information exchange, and how much we can all benefit from the free exchange of information (examples: Linux, wikipedia, etc.).
I think p2p downloads and software cracks point to the fact that information CAN be exchanged with very little effort. I know many people hate the "information wants to be free" tagline, but ultimately it appears that since information CAN be exchanged freely, why should we artificially limit it?
I think it is a good thing that we are starting to realize that freeing information is easy and useful.
Parent
my own study (Score:3, Funny)
- I pay too much for gas
- I pay too much for cheeseburger
- I pay too much for clothes
What's the news here?
I Don't See The Big Deal With Music Downloads (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, I'm middle-aged & I tend to listen mainly to classic rock albums with a little blues & soul thrown in. Most of the stuff I listen to, I can get fairly cheaply either second-hand or on eBay/Amazon marketplace - generally, I'll pick up a brand new CD for around £6 ($10). For that money, I get a nice uncompressed shiny CD with some liner notes and a hard case that I can rip at whatever bit rates I want to (I do listen to a lot of MP3-based music when I'm travelling or in the gym).
I don't go near Virgin or HMV record stores in the UK because I simply cannot justify paying anything up to £17 ($28) for a new CD but the prices that I do get my CDs at seem to be as cheap as paying to download each track individually - plus I get something tangible in the process.
I know a lot of people don't want to buy "filler" tracks on CDs and prefer downloading the tracks they want but I still don't get it - I've a collection of about 800 CDs at home and I'd say at least half of those are recordings I consider as "classics" that I can happily listen to from start to finish as completely good albums.
I'm certainly not trying to provoke a "the music of today is rubbish compared to the music of yesterday" argument because I just don't listen to enough modern music to have a valid opinion of it - but I've more than enough great music in CD album format to last me a lifetime now & if the younger generation of today has difficulty finding modern albums that are themselves "classics" in their entirety, then doesn't the "pick and mix music tracks" attitude perhaps make more of a statement about the quality of modern music than music downloads as being "the modern way" of distributing music?
YRO? (Score:3, Interesting)
Far to expensive (Score:3, Insightful)
( only speaknig averages here.. )
A uncompressed CD is 17 bucks..
To buy a CD full of downloads its costs that much or more, and you only get COMPRESSED versions..
Not too equitable sounding to me..
Price & Quality (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it comparable to CD (44.1 KHz, 16 bits samples for 2 channels)?
If a physical CD costs, say, USD 15.- USD with 15 songs, each downloadable song should cost USD 1.
Much less if you think about the money they save by not printing the medium and not shipping the boxes all around the world.
Let's say USD 0.75 could be right. It's right if the song is CD quality, of course.
If it's a compressed [wikipedia.org] format song, it should cost less because quality is worse. Let's say USD 0.50 is a fair price.
Almost all legal downloads are above this price. With no real reason!
So I'd say that prices are too high when compared to quality.
And Maybe they are too high in any case.
Weird (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Music has no absolute value (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want evidence that the music industry ignores supply and demand, look no further than CD prices. Despite the enormous drop in CD sales the prices have not dropped. In fact, the music industry has raised prices over the same time period.
Parent
Re:Music has no absolute value (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I find Bittorrent and Sharaza....... (Score:2, Troll)
Re:I find Bittorrent and Sharaza....... (Score:5, Interesting)
By paying for music I am propping up an anachronistic distributing chain whose business practices I take issue with. Which, for me, is more of an issue than violating a business friendly law, or depriving the artist of the miniscule cut of the sale he'd be receiving.
For me something that is mutually beneficial would support both the artists and the consumer; paying for music ain't. I'd rather see no one pay for music and watch the record labels go down in flames (artists can still make money touring), so that when I do want to buy an album I can know that the artist is getting a reasonable cut of the sale.
Parent
Re:I find Bittorrent and Sharaza....... (Score:3, Interesting)
I bought The Arrogant Worms latest album Beige online for less than the CD online price, it was $1CAN a song.
Check out http://www.huntershack.org/nucleus/index.php?itemi d=177 [huntershack.org] and also my blog for a writeup on the new group.