Slashdot Log In
Homeland Security Tracks Information on Travelers
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Dec 01, 2006 02:50 PM
from the you-have-nothing-to-hide-right dept.
from the you-have-nothing-to-hide-right dept.
feuerfalke writes "Homeland Security recently disclosed a plan regarding an Automated Targeting System, or ATS, that would generate a 'terrorist risk rating' based on information collected about the traveler. This information would include things such as where they are from, how they paid for tickets, their motor vehicle records, past one-way travel, seating preference and the meals they ordered in-flight. These ratings have now been assigned to millions of international travelers, including Americans, and the ATS is exempt from many provisions of the Privacy Act — one cannot view their rating or the information used to generate it."
Related Stories
[+]
Politics: DHS Passenger Scoring Almost Certainly Illegal 181 comments
Vicissidude writes "At the National Targeting Center, the Automated Targeting System program harvests up to 50 fields of passenger data from international flights, including names, e-mail addresses and phone numbers, and uses watchlists, criminal databases and other government systems to assign risk scores to every passenger. When passengers deplane, Customs and Border Protection personnel then target the high scorers for extra screening. Data and the scores can be kept for 40 years, shared widely, and be used in hiring decisions. Travelers may neither see nor contest their scores. The ATS program appears to fly in the face of legal requirements Congress has placed in the Homeland Security appropriations bills for the last three years." From the article: "Marc Rotenberg, the director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said he was unaware of the language but that it clearly applies to the Automated Targeting System, not just Secure Flight, the delayed successor to CAPPS II. 'Bingo, that's it -- the program is unlawful,' Rotenberg said. 'I think 514(e) stands apart logically (from the other provisions) and 514 says the restrictions apply to any 'other follow-on or successor passenger prescreening program'. It would be very hard to argue that ATS as applied to travelers is not of the kind contemplated (by the lawmakers).'"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Sounds like.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sounds like.... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From the Mod FAQ: The same as being sent to GITMO. No meta mods (courts), just 'other peoples opinion' when the victim^H^H^H^H^H^H *cough* terrorist doesn't follow Slashdot groupthink.
Re:Sounds like.... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Execution (Score:4, Interesting)
This place is freak'n surreal.
Parent
It's True (Score:2, Funny)
Re:It's True (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:5, Insightful)
Second, nobody has a monopoly on killing innocent people. From Salon's Patrick Smith, via Bruce Schneier's blog:
* In 1985, Air India Flight 182 was blown up over the Atlantic by:
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Bill O'Reilly
c. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir
d. Indian Sikh extremists, in retaliation for the Indian Army's attack on the Golden Temple shrine in Amritsar
* In 1986, who attempted to smuggle three pounds of explosives onto an El Al jetliner bound from London to Tel Aviv?
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Michael Smerconish
c. Bob Mould
d. A pregnant Irishwoman named Anne Murphy
* In 1962, in the first-ever successful sabotage of a commercial jet, a Continental Airlines 707 was blown up with dynamite over Missouri by:
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Ann Coulter
c. Henry Rollins
d. Thomas Doty, a 34-year-old American passenger, as part of an insurance scam
* In 1994, who nearly succeeding in skyjacking a DC-10 and crashing it into the Federal Express Corp. headquarters?
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Michelle Malkin
c. Charlie Rose
d. Auburn Calloway, an off-duty FedEx employee and resident of Memphis, Tenn.
* In 1974, who stormed a Delta Air Lines DC-9 at Baltimore-Washington Airport, intending to crash it into the White House, and shot both pilots?
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Joe Scarborough
c. Spalding Gray
d. Samuel Byck, an unemployed tire salesman from Philadelphia
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
95% - yes
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ [thereligionofpeace.com]
Re:How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:4, Informative)
a. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
b. Michael Smerconish
c. Bob Mould
d. A pregnant Irishwoman named Anne Murphy
The answer is A. She is an Irishwoman best known as the former girlfriend of the Jordanian terrorist Nezar Hindawi. While she was pregnant with his child, Hindawi convinced her to unknowingly take an explosives-laden bag on board an El Al flight. Nezar was born in 1954 and when this was committed, 1986, he was 32 years old.
I agree, there are other people that want to kill people, just get the facts straight.
Parent
Re:How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember, the GP said nothing of the root causes in each case. He merely said who was carrying the bombs - because that's who airport security is trying to catch. Your point is no refutation of his.
Parent
Re:How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:4, Interesting)
* In 1986, who attempted to smuggle three pounds of explosives onto an El Al jetliner bound from London to Tel Aviv?
d. A pregnant Irishwoman named Anne Murphy
That's probably the worst example I could think of if your trying to defend Arabs from the "Arabs want to blow up airplaes" sterotype. Ann Murphy had no intention of killing anyone. Her Jordanian fiancée, Nizar Hindawi, planted those three pounds of explosives in her bag and convinced her to go on the trip. When he was captured he claimed that this was done at the urging of high ranking officers in the Syrian Airforce. In short: At the behest of Syria a "Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40" was willing to kill his fiancée, his child, and 375 passengers.
Parent
Re:How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:5, Insightful)
In addition to the air sabotage you mentioned, one of the most feared terrorist organizations in the eighties and nineties was the IRA. True, they weren't feared much by us because they didn't strike at us, but neither did the PLO.
Of those that did strike at us, we probably had the most fear about very loosely connected "patriots" in our country that belonged to groups that often called themselves "militias". Of these groups and, others vaguely related, various law enforcement agencies often confiscated positively scary quantities of guns and ammo. These groups largely peaked around the time of the destruction of the federal building in Oklahoma City, which Timothy McVeigh stated was done because of his sympathy, if not actual participation, with these groups.
I think Timmy, the members of the various "militias" and the members of the IRA would be very unlikely to be swept up in the "Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" category. In fact, plain ol' white folk in our country have a surprisingly high propensity to get caught up in emotional issues that then lead to them feeling they need to destroy something. The KKK, for example, has largely stuck to acts of terror on individuals, but has not been against firebombing a school building or such here and there. Anti-abortion activists have found both non-lethal and murderous ways to terrorize abortion clinics and doctors.
Once again, these haven't been on planes, but does it make them any less lethal or scary? Does that fact that these things were done by largely white Westerners mean it's not actual terror? Maybe it's just that since we understand (note: understanding does notj equal agreement) many of the reasons behind these acts, they don't instill the same sense of terror in us as mostly nameless, faceless terrorist fighting for something or other in the Middle East.
People need to remember to ask themselves what might be coming from their right if they place all their attention on their left. We need to look both ways when crossing this street. Terrorists are all over the place. If you check every guy with brown skin and a beard, you're likely to find out the hard way that your very white, nice, clean cut neighbor is the one that's really upset about [insert cause here] and thinks a few hundred people need to die to show the world just how mad he really is.
If you want a war on Islamic Fundimentalists, then at least have the balls to say it. If you want a "war on terror", then my friend, terror starts at home.
TW
Parent
Re:How can anyone think profiling works? (Score:4, Interesting)
As long as you're using concepts from game theory, let's introduce the concept of "zero sum." Because it's not just that profiling doesn't work - profiling may actually worsen security.
At any given point in time, a security checkpoint has fixed amount of resources to scrutinize passengers. Under profiling, you are devoting greater manpower to searching the Arabs' bags than you would under no profiling. That means that you are actually devoting less resources to scrutinizing the pregnant Irishwomen's bags than you would under no profiling. So if the bad guys can make an educated guess about who does and doesn't fit the profile, profiling actually helps them.
Profiling + Savvy bad guys = Worse security
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A. Tom Cruise?
B. Beetle Bailey?
C. Muslim extremists?
D. A white male?
In 1955 United Airlines Flight 629 was blown up by?
A. Oprah Winfrey?
B. The Riddler?
C. Muslim extremists?
D. A white male?
In 1996 the record-breaking Port Arthur Massacre was commited by?
A. Carlos Mencia?
B. Dragons?
C. Muslim extremists?
D. A white male?
The Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City was blown up by?
A. Dale Earnhardt?
B. Ghandi?
C. Muslim extremists?
D.
Re:Just what was "propaganda"? (Score:4, Interesting)
1. The grandparent posters examples might have stretched back a while, but you're focusing on the wrong thing. His examples illustrate that terrorism and ends-justify-the-means violence is nothing new, and that people of more than one faith are capable of doing it.
Furthermore, in a historical context, they illustrate that the current paranoia displayed to the overwhelming majority of peaceful Muslims because of a the actions of a tiny fraction of people of that faith is an inappropriate overreaction. The actions of a few don't dictate the beliefs and intentions of the many, so don't fall into the trap of making that mistake.
2. You quote a website that clearly has an agenda, and that agenda is colouring Islam as a religion that is based on hate and which is driven by the need to murder others. Even if their stats are 100 percent accurate, do you have similar figures for other religions? Can you honestly claim that, say, Christians, Jews, Bhuddists or people of any other faith are less destructive and can you back it up with any data?
Yes, some misguided Muslims have killed others in the name of their religion, but so have others of other faiths. Yes, some extracts of the Koran can be interpreted violently, but so can some extracts of the Bible, the Torah, etc. If you're going to sweepingly condemn people for the actions of their brethren, or for the words written in their holy texts, then I think you're going to condemn almost everybody on the planet.
Certainly, it makes me glad to be agnostic when I see people colouring things the way that you do here. I don't know if there is a God, so I don't have a side, and I certainly don't have an agenda. As someone who's walked past IRA bombs minutes before they've exploded and whose girlfriend was on a London Underground train while some were being blown up last year I'm in no doubt that you don't have to be of a certain religion, creed, colour or cause to want to kill someone.
There is one thing that I don't doubt though: it's that people who only see one worldview and who demonise those that have differing worldviews are part of the problem, not part of the solution. And in case it passes over your head, that applies to you just as much as it applies to the Al Qaedas and IRAs of this world.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Attendant: Pork sausages or Spaghetti and Meatballs?
Passenger1: Sausages
Attendant: Pork sausages or Spaghetti and Meatballs?
Passenger2: Sausages
Attendant: Pork sausages or Spaghetti and Meatballs?
Passenger3: Meatballs
....... Some time later.......
Attendant: Pork sausages or Spaghetti and Meatballs?
Passenger n : Sausages
Attendant: Oh, I'm sorry, we are all out, we only have Halal Chicken.
Passenger n: ah no problem, chicken it is.
CIA: Hey, some guy just ate the Halal Chicken. Flag him.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Lies my teacher told me (Score:5, Insightful)
So what do we tell the kids, today?
Re:Lies my teacher told me (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
>
> So what do we tell the kids, today?
We point out that one in three East Germans was helping STASI with citizen surveillance, (no doubt with similar numbers for the USSR and KGB) but only a few thousand upper Party members were actuall
Re: (Score:2)
> I spent a good part of my childhood just a few miles away from the lucky side of the Iron Curtain. One of the things that our teachers told us was so bad about East Germany was the fact that they "kept files on their citizens! Normal people, like you and me!"
>
> So what do we tell the kids, today?
We point out that one in three East Germans was helping STASI with citizen surveill
Meals Ordered on Flight?? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Meals Ordered on Flight?? (Score:4, Informative)
Muslims removed from airplane when passengers found praying to be suspicious [startribune.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They came aboard - ok
They made a lot of noise - ok
They ordered - unecessary seatbelt extensions - which are heavy metal objects - ok
They stood up and started praying - ok
They sat back down ONE AT EACH EXIT OF THE PLANE - BIG problem
These people were trying to do one of 2 things
-> terrorist attack
-> get themselves removed from the plane so they could call "racist"
You're not going to tell me these people
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Muslims removed from airplane when passengers found praying to be suspicious
The Star Tribune article that you link to is appallingly bad. Practically speaking it is closer to disinformation about the incident and why the Imams were removed from the plane.
How the imams terrorized an airliner [washingtontimes.com]
So if you're flagged ... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is like the no-fly list only worse then, isn't it? An algorithm kicks out the belief that you must be a terrorist, and anytime you go anywhere it's gonna beep and you get cold hands and lube once again.
I hope this gets shot down by a court, because way too many scary things are being passed that exempt themselves from any sort of oversight and transparency. I can envision a lot of people deciding they don't really wish to fly to the US anymore. It's impossible to do without having your privacy invaded or running the risk of ending up on some secret CIA flight or something.
Re:So if you're flagged ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Welcome to several years ago: a heck of lot of people have already decided they don't want to visit America anymore.
I used to travel to America regularly before 9/11, but I've only been there twice since and both of those were short stops between planes when flying to and from Canada. Why go to a country that will treat me like crap at immigration, then potentially kidnap me and ship me to Cuba if some computer tells them I might be a terrist?
Parent
Re:So if you're flagged ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it's definitely building over time, there's no denying that.
But, even that is getting kind of scary. I seem to recall that some time last year, Gonzales issued a legal opinion that says that they can arrest and detain anyone they see fit, and short of torture (which they defined in terms or organ failure and death) they could do anything they wanted to you.
It sounds very much like just taking a connecting flight through the US could allow you to end up in custody, declared as an illegal combatant, and locked away. I just simply don't trust people who grant themselves that much power and remove all transparency. I realize it's unlikely, it's just eerie to know they believe that they can do anything they want. Especially if other countries did the same, the US would freak out that their citizens can't go around unfettered.
Cheers
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only does it sound like that, it is like that. There was, f'rinstance, the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, who was pulled while transferring planes and sent off to be tortured in Syria.
I'm surprised that all foreign travellers are not making a helluvan effort to avoid touching-down in the USA.
Re:So if you're flagged ... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
1) Hotel closed in Bahamas due to hurricane. We changed flights to Hawaii, honeymooned there.
2) Due to a horrid set of circumstances and poor maintenance on USAIRWAYS - our flight was canceled and I think they towed the plane straight to the dump. FOUR times on & off the plane - first the lights wouldn't come on for the pilots, then warning lights wouldn't go off, etc. We went through security 3 times before we even got on a plane.
3) T
Take your pill and swallow it (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Take your pill and swallow it (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
About Time! (Score:2)
There was a time when a certain amount of distrust of the government was considered "healthy".
Now it gets you points on your "good american" list.
I thought my credit score was something to worry about, how long until your "Good American" score will be used as a factor in court proceedings, federal hiring practices, etc. etc.?
Re:About Time! (Score:4, Informative)
You mean like this?
Parent
Meals = Racial Profiling (Score:3, Insightful)
Since we all know that you MUST be a terrorist if: (Score:5, Insightful)
*You enjoy food from the Middle East (they probably have a Middle-Eastern mid-flight meal SOMEWHERE) after trying some at a small suburban restaraunt near your Pakistani coworker.
*You paid in cash, since you recently went bankrupt and are moving somewhere that has a lower cost of living.
*You refused to show your ID in the airport a few months ago because you packed your wallet in your checked bag by accident (Happened to me, it's tons of fun).
*You checked out a book on Islamic extremism for your Current Issues class, for a Debate on the issue, or other such academia.
It's good to know our previous Congress was too busy pissing themselves post-911 to have a clear enough mind to see how freaking WRONG the Patriot Act was, and then kept being embarassed by the stain enough to extend it's duration.
I'll take a... (Score:2, Troll)
Where to begin? (Score:5, Insightful)
>Government officials could not say whether ATS has apprehended any terrorists.
It can't work because of the base rate fallacy. At any false alarm rate known to man, the output will be statistically indistiguishable from 100% false alarms.
All these problems are aggravated by the fact that they won't correct errors:
>Nor can they see the records "for the purpose of contesting the content."
It's not to keep airplanes safe, it's a general control tool:
>ATS data about an individual may be shared with state, local and foreign governments for use in hiring decisions and in granting licenses, security clearances, contracts or other benefits.
Instant Translation (Score:5, Funny)
Dave's instant translation from government-speak to English:
how they paid for tickets
their motor vehicle records
past one-way travel
seating preference
The meals they ordered in-flight
These ratings have now been assigned to millions of international travelers, including Americans, and the ATS is exempt from many provisions of the Privacy Act -- one cannot view their rating or the information used to generate it."
This concludes this translation session.
they probably do this for domestic travels as well (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not saying this out of paranoia - I'm saying this from personal experiences. I took a trip about a year ago to attend my brother's wedding. As luck would have it, my birthday had passed while I was at my travel destination, and with all the wedding and family stuff going on, I failed to realize that my drivers license had expired while I was at my travel destination. When I went to go on my return flight, I was flagged for "special" scanning/treatment, and I've been "randomly selected" to be frisked every time I travel after that as well. They can look through my bags all they want, but I must admit I seriously dislike (though I tolerate it to avoid conflict with the TSA) being frisked like that by some stranger every time I travel.
I'm certain some good jokes will follow this, but at least learn from my mistake: make sure your drivers license (even though is technically valid 30 days after expiration) does not expire in the midst of your travels!
why profiling Muslims won't work (Score:3, Insightful)
The real extremists, the ones who are willing to commit terrorism, are more likely to believe their religion allows them to pretend to be something else in order to defeat their enemies. They may not want to wear Western clothing, shave their beards, dye their skin pale white, take on Anglo-American names, forego their daily prayers, or eat pork rib platters for dinner, but extremists will do all of those things and more if it gives them a chance to strike at their perceived enemies. This is why ethnic profiling would be ineffective at best, and any feelings of safety it might create would be utterly false.
The refusal to openly endorse profiling of Muslims and Middle Eastern people in general is one of the things our government is actually doing right. Most of the people in these categories are not enemies of civilization. It would be a huge strategic mistake to treat all of them as if they were.
Re:Not trolling but.. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Wasn't this talked about at LEAST 2 years ago? (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell, about four years ago, I was flagged for a super-duper security check at the Denver airport because I was flying on a last-minute one-way flight (bought with a debit card!) as I rushed in to put out a fire at a hosting operation. So there's me, looking more than a little bedraggled, with nothing but the clothes on my back and a laptop bag stuffed with some mysterious-looking replacement parts. The very nice, but very thorough inspectors told me that I should completely expect every flight I take for the following several years to end up going exactly the same way, because the profiling has some real inertia to it. They were correct, as I've gotten the (polite/thorough) treatment every time since, even when traveling on more conventionally purchased tickets. Maybe it's my warm, fuzzy personality.
Not really. It's behavioral profiling - a lot more effective than skin-based profiling. Something that doesn't seem to get the coverage it's supposed to in recent flaps like the imam-fest the other day. (hint: loudly uttering "allah" and dispersing your group of six guys in pairs to the wrong parts of the airplane rather invites a look at your behavior). I may have the imam hair, and perhaps my shoes COULD explode after standing in them for 48 hours straight in front of a rack of servers, but I don't tend to send a lot of those other signals. On the other hand, I've met some very nice TSA people - they keep the best ones on the sidelines for the personal inspections, it seems.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A religious obligation for over a billion people five times a day.
The other noteworthy point is that *after* they were dogsniffed, searched and cleared, US Airways refused to sell them replacement tickets. US Airways pointed them to other airlines, which proves it wasn't a safety issue.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No.
Now: you and five other people do that, and do it very loudly as a group in the terminal. And, of course, you do this in the context of several years of recent history during which your bretheren have a well-documented history of doing the same thing right before an attack in a public space. But never mind that... then, you and your five friends get on a plane,