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Movie Studios OK Download-to-Burn DVDs
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Thu Jan 04, 2007 07:41 PM
from the small-screen-miracles dept.
from the small-screen-miracles dept.
fistfullast33l writes "The Associated Press is reporting that today movie studios have approved Sonic Solutions' technology Qflix, which allows people to download movies and burn them to DVDs that include CSS, the method of encryption that protects all pre-recorded DVDs sold today. According to a press release issued by Sonic Solutions, they will be demoing the technology by appointment at the Consumer Electronics Show on January 8th. Apparently the DVDs will also be subject to DRM restrictions placed by download services such as limiting the times a movie can be played back and how many times the movie can be burned. Is this the death of NetFlix as we know it? Interestingly enough, the AP article mentions burning kiosks in the future and the Sonic release mentions Walgreen's as a partner, so maybe DVD burning is coming to a drug store near you. Sonic Solutions is the owner of Roxio, which produces a well-known CD and DVD burning software suite."
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DRM=WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:DRM=WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not as if your DVD player has a built-in shredder. And most DVD players I know of don't have any ability to write to DVD's, so it's not as if the DVD itself will keep track of the number of time.
So what gives?
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Re:DRM=WTF (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:DRM=WTF (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:DRM=WTF (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is really nonsensical since the first thing most people are likely to do is burn it to an "unlimited" DVD-R.
Ha Ha (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Netflix doesn't have any such stipulations...no late fees, no drm....you can do anything you want with your "backups"....
Well, the same's true with this, really. You burn to an image of a CSS DVD, then use DeCSS (or DVDShrink or some similar program that packages DeCSS) to strip the CSS so you have a DRM-free disc image. Burn as many times as you want. Rip to whatever format takes your fancy. Etc.
How long before this is cracked? (Score:2)
Already cracked -- it's just CSS (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Never ever going to work (Score:5, Insightful)
I want downloadable movies, but not like this. It's still not an excuse for piracy (in case anyone gets funny ideas) but there are so many better solutions to this.
Re:Never ever going to work (Score:5, Informative)
It won't really require a special DVD burner. Your DVD burner already burns zeroes over the CSS area if that area isn't pre-burned on the media. As best I can tell from a Google search, this is done for both DVD authoring media and DVD+R media. Thus, it would require nothing more than a firmware change with existing media to enable writing of CSS data.
Of course, they will tell you that it requires a special drive because they will want to keep the cost extremely high (so that it is only affordable by people running kiosks) to prevent people from buying the drives, installing them on their PCs, and doing byte-for-byte copies of movies including the CSS region....
My guess is that before this becomes available to your average consumers, they'll come up with some cryptographic handshake that only authorized software can perform, and will use this to prevent unauthorized software from writing to the region. That aspect of it might require updated burner hardware, but not because of any hardware changes needed to support the burning process itself.... That said, maybe they'll just relent, realize that CSS isn't stopping piracy in any useful way, and simply allow all the DVD burners' firmware to be updated to support burning CSS (and maybe pigs will fly, and...).
Parent
Re:Never ever going to work (Score:4, Informative)
I write cd/dvd burning, data recovery, and forensic software for a living so I can try to clear this up a bit.
You are correct in a way but from what I understand what is really going on is the "CSS area" or Control Data Zone (CDZ) is pre-recorded at the factory on DVD-R (general) and DVD-RW media and with DVD-R (Authoring), DVD-R (version 1.0), DVD+R(W) media the drive firmware does not allow writing to the CDZ and overwrites it with dummy data as well as portions of the sector headers (which I think is used by CPPM). So like you said theoretically the manufacturers could release a firmware upgrade to allow writing to the CDZ on DVD-R (Authoring), DVD-R (version 1.0), DVD+R(W) media and possible do the same with DVD-R (general) and DVD-RW media although all of your old DVD-R (general) and DVD-RW media would be useless and you would have to purchase the new DVD-R(W) media that does not have that portion of the disc pre-recorded.
My guess is that they will release new DVD-R's (general) discs that do not have the CDZ pre-written and only allow the drive manufacturers to release firmware to write the CDZ on those discs. This way they can charge extra money for the discs and not just be able to use old DVD+R(W)'s. The drive manufacturers could make some extra money too by not releasing firmware that allows this on older drives and marketing "new" drives that have this ability.
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I agree (Score:4, Interesting)
In other words, all the beautiful technologies we have grown to love! If you think all they are going to do is put CSS on disks you are greatly mistaken. They do seem to care about quality of disks but not your ability to archive or back them up. On a side note, this might not be that bad for kiosks, but I would rather buy a *real* DVD than wait 20 min for this thing to come out. Like I don't have better things to do.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
-Eric
Re:Never ever going to work (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean like an iPod?
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Downsized Blockbuster... (Score:4, Interesting)
But Ballbusters already eliminated late fees... (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, this kiosk idea is so far removed from the traditional experience of "roaming the racks" that it would leave absolutely nothing to distinguish between downloading a movie and going to the store to rent it, except that you have to leave your comfy couch to do it and, most likely, pay a bit more. Really, only the technophobes are going to be going to rental stores in the near future, so why alienate them? Of course, the shift away from brick and mortar rental stores is definitely coming. Blockbuster et al. are most likely going to find some way to carve themselves a slice of the pie, but one can't help but wonder how long there will be actual Blockbuster corner video stores in operation.
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Please include CSS, oh please (Score:4, Funny)
they still don't get it... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you tried downloading a full sized DVD and burning it? Come on, I don't have the time or patience required to do that via bittorrent (which maxes out my connection and prevents me from doing other things online if I want the DVD as fast as possible) and that still takes several hours. How fast would I get the DVD if I'm downloading it from one so
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not everyone shares your opinion. Some people have the patience even to download whole TV series as DVD ISOs (for an hour-long show, that would be about 7 discs per season).
Burning Kiosk? No thanks ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, I doubt they'll spring for TY 8x +R media bitset to DVD-ROM
Start your clocks! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Netflix will live on (Score:5, Insightful)
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The end of Netflix my ass (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no way this will beat Netflix. People like my mother use Netflix simply because she doesn't like buying movies. It costs her a few dollars to see a movie through Netflix, where I doubt that these 'download' movies will be less than $12.99USD.
Riddle me this: Do you really think there are more people out there willing/able to download and burn a full-length DVD (including those who know what DRM is) than willing to hop on a website and order movies to their homes? Hell, for as fast as Netflix is in getting movies out, you could likely order one and have it delivered before your download of the same movie would be completed.
Somebody wake me when I can go online or on my TV and order any movie I want on-demand.
Oh, and the DRM scheme of limiting the number of times you can watch the movie on your computer is about the most fucking stupid thing I've heard today. This is another industry trying to ensure that you will NEVER own anything.
Hehe (Score:2)
It would be less inconvenient to the consumer if they forced us to do twenty situps before downloading.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're living in America, Home of the Obese as I am, we might find that forcing people to do sit-ups before a movie would improve our declining life expectancy numbers.
Key that fits the lock! (Score:2)
This is the equivalent of leaving your front door key underneath the mat. It won't be long at all until the crack is widely available.
Where this will get implemented is in blockbuster stores. The good news here is the kiosk will probably run windows, so I'm thinking the boxes should be owned pretty quickly too.
I think the point is there are a few bad people that really would look under the mat and go into the house. The
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
This is the equivalent of leaving your front door key underneath the mat. It won't be long at all until the crack is widely available.
Wow! Yeah! Those hackers are so cunning they got a crack done 7 years ago [wikipedia.org]!
Glad they've finally OK'ed it. (Score:5, Funny)
Not a DVD-Video. (Score:2)
limiting the times a movie can be played back
and how many times the movie can be burned."
The first limitation is not possible, unless DIVX really won against DVD.
The second limitation is also not part of the DVD-Video standard, and it means that you probably need some windows program that downloads the video in Arbitrariy-proprietary-DRM-format-173, then converts they to a a non-standard DVD you can
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see anything in either article that says they limit playback.
The second limitation is also not part of the DVD-Video standard, and it means that you probably need some windows program that downloads the video in Arbitrariy-proprietary-DRM-format-173, then converts they to a a non-standard DVD you can only play on windows or off-standard DVD players.
You're half right I think. My reading is that what you download isn't DVD-Video,
Re: (Score:2)
Why put it on a disc? (Score:2, Funny)
The only thing to see here is FUD..... (Score:2)
Studio's like this? (Score:2)
Death of Netflix? (Score:2)
Cool concept, if the price is right. (Score:2, Interesting)
Simplicity is always the key to mass market.
Reality check (Score:5, Insightful)
What is interesting about this is that Hollywood is close to giving up on CSS. They are about to permit hardware makers to market a drive capable of writing the CSS blocks and writable media to leave a factory without the CSS blocks preburned to zeros. While I suspect they have a DRM trick up their sleeve we know it won't work in this case, as there really isn't a way to retrofit around the flaws in CSS and remian compatible with the installed base of DVD players.
Ding dong the witch is dead, but of course it has already been dead and the body is pretty smelly, enough that Hollywood couldn't ignore it anymore. I think this is a good idea actually. Not for everything and everybody, but I can imagine cases where I might actually use it.
Scenario 1: Downloads. I could see paying to download and burn vs paying to have physical media shipped. If there was a big enough price gap to make the slightly faster delivery enough better to offset the loss of the professional screen printed artwork and such. Or if it were used for obscure titles that wouldn't rate a production run and the choice is between a DVD-R and nothing.
Or try Scenario 2: Go to a website, pick the titles you want to purchase and pick up the media (which could even be dye sub printed and cased) at your friendly neighborhood retailer (the article mentions a deal in the works with Wallgreens) later the same day. Note that this scenario would even allow Hollywood to tightly control distribution of totally blank burnable media.
Movie Time (Score:5, Funny)
Apparently the DVDs will also be subject to DRM restrictions placed by download services such as limiting the times a movie can be played back
We're sorry. Viewing restrictions on this DVD are such that you may only watch Star Whores Episode II - Attack of the Bones between 2pm and 5pm, when your wife is at work.
DVD lifespan (Score:3, Insightful)
New Era (Score:3, Interesting)
Not necessarily... Whenever I burn a DVD, it takes forever, sometimes doesn't work quite right and just isn't quite the same as a nice and polished commercial DVD. Sure, if I really knew what I was doing and had awesome equipment maybe things would be different. For the average Joe downloading a movie and burning it to a DVD to watch, in most cases, once is too much of a pain in the ass. Most people would rather just pick the movies they want in a list and have the real deal sent to them.
Now video on demand however, is a spin of the downloadable content and could put NetFlix down. If these movie download websites integrate with other equipment (think TiVo or some type of set top box) that can be rented or purchased, then we might have a winner. Sitting in front of the TV and clicking "Play" with a remote and having the content stream in is pretty cool. I loved having this on my old cable network and if a third party offered something similar, it would be healthy competition, especially if the service offered popular TV show archives as well.
Re: (Score:2)
I do like the idea of buying a movie online, downloading and burning it. What I don't want is to pay $20 and only get to view the movie a few times, or for a limited time. This is defiantly a "wait and see" technology. If there playback is unlimited, and the price is not insane, I'd be willing to buy movies this way.
Voluntarily paying more for "music" CD-Rs. (Score:4, Interesting)
What absolutely totally pissed me off beyond belief was the day I brought a CD home and it wouldn't copy, because it had some damned kind of copy protection built in that triggered the SCCS lockout in my recorder.
I kept MY end of the bargain, God damn it. I paid for every copy I made. And I was totally entitled to make those copies under the Audio Home Recording Act. And both the publishers and artists were paid for every copy.
But, noooooo, that's not good enough for the music industry. They set up a one-sided bargain and then won't even keep their side of it.
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Re:not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
The same people who have to wait at least a day for Netflix to mail you a movie you want?
Now, this is before we even get started on the addition DRM crap they want to subject their customers to.
Which for practical purposes is no more DRM than Netflix gives you. Once you take a file you download and burn it, you have what Netflix would have sent you except on a DVD-R instead of a pressed disc. (I think the bit of the summary about limiting playback is FUD; I don't see anything in either article mentioning it, and two other posters as-of now concur. I think it's just an iTunes-like thing: you download a DRM'd file, then can burn it.)
In fact, in some sense, you can do MORE with this file because you can gave it on your computer hard drive without running the DVD through DeCSS first.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)