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Introducing GNU/Linux Via Applications

Posted by kdawson on Tue Mar 27, 2007 02:59 PM
from the in-the-side-door dept.
GNU is Not Unix Software Linux
An anonymous reader writes "A common problem with GNU/Linux for new users is not the operating system, but the switch in applications they must undertake to use it. Many who try to make the switch have little experience with the common open source applications available under GNU/Linux. The Kutztown GNU/Linux User Group, in Pennsylvania, is helping to change that on a large scale by distributing open source applications to faculty on Microsoft Windows machines first. Instead of selling GNU/Linux, the group is selling open source. Faculty at the school have been provided discs containing a number of popular open source applications compatible with Windows as part of a larger program to get more users to consider switching operating systems."
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  • Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ksd1337 (1029386) <siddharthpatil0@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:02PM (#18506535) Homepage
    This is a good idea. Instead of alienating users, they can make them more familiar with the benefits of open-source while letting them keep the OS they know how to use. Wow, a first post. I never thought I'd make it.

    • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Seumas (6865) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:08PM (#18506645)
      Agreed. This is a rather simple step to take, but one that a lot of us might not consider if we are in the position to make such decisions and efforts. OSS and Linux can be introduced in baby-steps, until the targeted person or persons is using largely open and free applications and even operating systems without really even realizing it.

      We're often too forceful with our fanatical upholding of our favored philosophies and operating systems to the detriment of our own goals. Our enthusiasm can't be forced on someone else. The enthusiasm can be seeded in another person, though. And if you cultivate it slowly and carefully, they will appreciate it even grow to feel they discovered it of their own accord, which will make them more willing to promote and evangelize the experience and the products than if we forced it on them wholesale out of the blue.

    • At KCLUG, we called it the 'Gateway Drug' (Score:5, Interesting)

      by The Monster (227884) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:15PM (#18506793) Homepage
      We handed out CDs with Windows versions of FOSS apps. If people find that they can do their jobs just fine with those apps instead of Windows-only apps, then the OS doesn't matter to them anymore. Then Ubuntu came along with a combo live CD and Windows installer for several FOSS apps as an added bonus, so we've settled on that as our new sampler. I do get a kick out of the fact that Kubuntu has Firefox for Windows on the CD, but not for Linux. (Not that synaptic can't add it in a hurry.)

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by BiggyP (466507)
        The LiveCD approach is nice but for certain users i've a feeling that having a bootable linux disc could really scare them if they accidentally leave it in the machine when they shut down, the other thing is that it might be nice to have OpenOffice.org for windows on the disc, it's quite an important part of the transition for most windows users. That's not to say that handing out LiveCDs is a bad idea though, having both a dedicated Windows FOSS disc and a liveCD available is probably the best solution.

        • a bootable linux disc could really scare them if they accidentally leave it in the machine when they shut down
          I think that Knoppix set the gold standard for this. When you shut down, it pops the CD tray open, and asks you to remove the CD from the drive. Every live CD I've used since that copies this feature.

    • This is a good idea. Instead of alienating users, they can make them more familiar with the benefits of open-source while letting them keep the OS they know how to use.

      Exactly. It's pretty much how I got Mrs. Otter switched over. She was reluctant to give up Windows due to its familiarity. Bit by bit, switched her to Firefox, OpenOffice, and Gaim - which covered the majority of what she used a PC for. The KDE switch came later - but the idea of switching wasn't as intimidating by then - I was able t

      • The KDE switch came later [...]

        About KDE, it seems from a quick skimming of the comments that no one has yet remarked that Qt4 is GPL'd for Windows as well (Qt3 was not). As KDE 4 comes around and applications are ported to Qt4, it will be fairly easy to recompile K3b, Amarok, digiKam, Krita, Kile and of course KOffice to Windows. Sometime later this year there may be a flurry of high-quality free software made available for Windows, it will be interesting to see how it develops.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mocheeze (860870)
      I rarely post, but I feel I should chime in. I've been conditioning my own self to using FOSS apps for a while now so that I can make the switch to Linux a lot easier down the road. There are only a couple applications left for me (Photoshop being the deal-breaker). I'm never going to upgrade to Vista, I'm just going to switch over to something like Ubuntu when I get to the point where I would need to upgrade. By then I hope we'll have a native Photoshop on Linux, or a more robust solution on WINE at least.

      • I rarely post, but I feel I should chime in. I've been conditioning my own self to using FOSS apps for a while now so that I can make the switch to Linux a lot easier down the road. There are only a couple applications left for me (Photoshop being the deal-breaker). I'm never going to upgrade to Vista, I'm just going to switch over to something like Ubuntu when I get to the point where I would need to upgrade. By then I hope we'll have a native Photoshop on Linux, or a more robust solution on WINE at least.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ozmanjusri (601766)
          For instance whereas PS has 24 bit colour channels (and CS3 may have 32 bits) GIMP doesn't even have 16 bit channels, last I heard it's coming RSN, which was more than a year ago.

          CinePaint, aka FilmGimp already supports 32 bits per channel. Use it if that's what's important to you.

    • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dvice_null (981029) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:59PM (#18507481)
      > while letting them keep the OS they know how to use

      I disagree. Majority of the users of Windows don't actually know how to use it. If they have problems, they need help. And during the normal everyday use, they don't actually use the OS at all, they just use the programs installed on it.

      I asked my wife after 6 months of using Ubuntu how does she feel about using Linux and she replied. "What do you mean, I have just surfed the web and written some emails and edited some pictures. I haven't used Linux".

      So basicly if we can replace Photoshop, Office, Outlook and IE. There is no problem replacing the Windows complitely. As long as someone is providing them the support they used to have with Windows also. (Which they probably need less with the Linux.)
  • I am assuming that the Open Office suite is included, but what else? Come to that what should be included, how about an open virus scanner for Windows.

  • OpenCD (Score:5, Informative)

    by nharmon (97591) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:07PM (#18506643) Homepage
    I enjoy giving away copies of the OpenCD [theopencd.org]. It contains a lot of common open source programs that run under Microsoft Windows.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by JacquesDemien (995045)
      I am often asked by family, friends, and coworkers (I work in IT and have contact with a large number of end-users) what applications I use, and what I recommend that they use. I do suggest GNU/Linux, but clearly most of them are using Windows and prefer to keep it that way for now. Here is the list of applications which I usually give them. Granted, some of these are NOT "free as in freedom" but are rather just "free as in beer" since, as noted elsewhere in this thread, for some categories of software t

    • Re:OpenCD (Score:4, Informative)

      by bcrowell (177657) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @04:43PM (#18508097) Homepage
      Here [libertytextbooks.org] is a similar CD of free books, intended mainly to be given away to university professors to let them know there are free alternatives to low-quality, high-cost textbooks.
    • If you install that CD on your computer, RMS will start requesting that you call the operating system GNU/Windows ;-)

  • KDE 4 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by javilon (99157) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:08PM (#18506663) Homepage
    When KDE 4 is released, many of its apps will be compiled for windows. There are some of them like amarok and k3b that are the best in their class, including closed source ones, and there are others that are as good as the closed sourced ones like krita, krusader, scribus, kivio and some others.
    When they are available for windows, and if you also consider firefox, thunderbird and openoffice you will be able to run a windows system with most of the applications open sourced.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CastrTroy (595695)
      Any word on when this would happen. I love Amarok, Digikam, and Kopete, and would love to have the running on windows. I'm currently running VMWare just to run Digikam, and a couple other linux Apps. I would really love to be able to run these on a windows box.

      • Re:KDE 4 (Score:4, Interesting)

        by pavon (30274) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:36PM (#18507099)
        The tenative release date for KDE 4 (unix) is around the end of October. The developers hope for the Windows port to be runnable (technology preview / alpha quality) at that time. I know, I am chomping at the bit myself :)
        • Actually, amarok won't be ported for a while (if ever)
          from the amarok developer's blog [kde.org]:

          amaroK will not be ported to windows until (if ever):

          * amaroK 2.0, which will use the Qt 4 toolkit. Qt 3.x releases, although have windows editions, are not compatible with the amaroK GPL license
          * KDE-libs, and respective engines are ported to windows
          * There is an open source windows developer willing to do all the hard work. There is as much chance of any of the current dev's porting to windows as th

    • KDE for Windows would be nice, as well as Gnome for Windows. But what would really be helpful is an EASY way to set up a Linux application environment on Windows similar to Wine on Linux. That way users can get used to not only OpenOffice and Firefox, but also programs like Evolution, Grip, gEdit/KEdit, etc. so that when they finally switch over to Linux they won't have to figure out such things as "now what program do I use to replace iTunes that doesn't run on Windows and therefore I couldn't use/get frus
  • I've recently installed Open Office and Gimp on a few of my customers M$ machines when they were facing the option of a $$$$ M$ Office & Adobe photoshop purchase.
    Their response? "Free? No way!"
    Two weeks later: "I LOVE these programs, they work great! Thanks!"
    I charged them nothing to install the programs, I did it for free because I like my customers and want to keep them happy. I'm not out to gouge them, I'm there to make happy customers.

    I don't expect them to convert to a "Linux" installation becau

    • I've recently installed Open Office and Gimp on a few of my customers M$ machines when they were facing the option of a $$$$ M$ Office & Adobe photoshop purchase.

      Your clients, customers, I dare say aren't graphic or photography pros, are they? There's just no way GIMP comes close to being a dropin replacement for Photoshop! It doesn't even have 16 bit colour channels whereas Photoshop has 24 bit channels. And I've hear CS3 will have 32 bit channels.

      Falcon
  • Off-topic, I know, but is there any reason the author consistently refers to "GNU/Linux" rather than Linux?

    • Re:"GNU/Linux" (Score:5, Informative)

      by FMota91 (1050752) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:19PM (#18506847)
      Because Linux is only the kernel, and what most people know as Linux is actually Linux + GNU Programs. So, calling it GNU/Linux is more accurate.
      • GNU didn't create GNOME or X or KDE or Amarok or Gaim or OpenOffice. They currently maintain most of the basic utilities for UNIX, but most non-developer desktop users don't directly interact with any GNU tools.

        So it's GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/Gaim project/Linux.

        Might as well add Berlios and Sourceforge, since, though they don't control or own many projects, they help out a fair bit. And I use tetex, so add that, too. And nongnu.org hosts CVS...

        GNU/MIT/Sun/GNOME Foundation/KDE foundation/

        • nitpick (Score:3, Informative)

          by pavon (30274)
          From the GNOME Website [gnome.org]:

          GNOME is Free Software and part of the GNU project, dedicated to giving users and developers the ultimate level of control over their desktops, their software, and their data. Find out more about the GNU project and Free Software at gnu.org.
          So, yes GNU did create the GNU Network Object Model Environment, as much as any other GNU project.
        • If you only want to call it one word (which is very reasonable), that word is GNU. Because that is the operating system you are running: The GNU operating system.

          You don't refer to Windows XP as "NTKRNL32.EXE" either.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by petrus4 (213815)
            Without the FSF and the GNU project "Linux" would not exist. Without the continuing work of the FSF and the Software Freedom Law Center it would soon become impossible for non-Corporate entities to create Free/Open-source software.

            This is fear based garbage, and it's also so utterly idiotic and ignorant that I find myself wondering why I'm bothering to reply to it at all.

            You obviously haven't used any of the BSDs before, have you? Of course, you're probably barely even aware that *BSD exists at all.

            You pro

            • a minimum of 3 different implementations of said userland exist, aside from Stallman's. The only element of the GNU system which is currently genuinely irreplaceable is gcc.

              AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Shut up shut up shut up!

              The leader is good, the leader is great. I surrender my will, as of this date.

              LALALALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING I CAN'T HEAR YOU

              Richard SAYS that it should be GNU/Linux, and that's obviously correct because Richard is impartial in this matter and has no vested interest in shoehorning

    • Re:"GNU/Linux" (Score:5, Funny)

      by orclevegam (940336) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:28PM (#18506985) Journal
      Because when you refer to it as just Linux, it makes RMS cry.
    • I think it is some old flavor of Linux, I've never tried it though.
      I kid I kid
      But I do wonder if RMS has nightmares with people saying that.

    • This a common practice amongst certain groups, including the pedantic, politically motivated and those who have been lectured at by Richard Stallman.


      I call it Linux because nobody apart from IT enthusiasts would know what "GNU/Linux" is!

  • I like ordering Ubuntu's Free ShipIt CDs (Score:3, Informative)

    by rolfwind (528248) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:20PM (#18506851)
    to give to people interested in Open Source.

    They are nicely packaged, have a CD with some art on there, etcetera.

    Personally, I think nothing looks as cheap (in a bad way) or shadier than a burnt CD-R especially with permanent marker on there.

    Is there any place that sells Open Source CDs or makes low runs of CDs with professional art at a low price?

    Otherwise I may looking into a lightscribe burner - it look a little better.

  • Instead of selling GNU/Linux, the group is selling open source [emphasis added].

    Who was clueless enough to let that slip through? Love RMS or hate him, that should clearly be "selling free software".

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by orclevegam (940336)
      If you convince people that the free open source apps really are as good as or better than the proprietary garbage that MS (among others) forces down there throats, and get them using it on a regular basis, then there will be nothing tying them to Windows. For most people, what holds them back from switching off Windows to something that's more stable and secure isn't that it dosn't come pre-installed, it's that they don't know how to use any of the apps all of us that use Linux take for granted. If you had
    • I think the point of this is not so much for people that already have a solution like MS Office, but those who are stuck using Wordpad and Paint when they want to learn desktop publishing, etc. It gets them to realize "Hey, there's something else out there besides the $300 USD per license MS Office? Wow, this means I can actually write those english papers now..." - If the Linux and FLOSS communities are lucky, this will get people to think - oh I need a cheap as possible beige-box pc - now I can do it lega

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by someone1234 (830754)
      They failed because M$ punished those that dared to sell a bare machine. I tried to buy several machines without W98 and XP, without success. The only way to buy a machine without that crap is to buy it by pieces. You cannot honestly say that Firefox on Windows is worse than IE. (6 or 7). I still keep an XP boot to play some games, but i use linux mostly, for 7 years now. I think Vista will make many people to switch to Linux or the Mac. If they are a little knowledgeable they will switch to Linux, if the

    • Re:Sure that'll work (Score:4, Informative)

      by dvice_null (981029) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:48PM (#18507303)
      > Why do you think people will "switch"?

      - You don't need to buy a new computer to get modern version of the operating system.
      - Updating programs is easier.
      - You don't need to fear viruses and spyware.
      - The computer works faster, because antivirus programs are not slowing it down.
      - Installing new programs is easier.
      - Not all have paid for it, Linux is an legal option.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by AusIV (950840)
      Personally, my switch to linux went something like this:

      I heard about this great web browser that was more secure than IE and had lots of cool plugins, so I switched to Firefox.
      I got fed up with Office XP crashing all the time, so I switched to OpenOffice.
      I got fed up with all the obtrusive ads from AIM, so I switched to Gaim.
      I got fed up with inconsistencies in windows media player, so I switched to VLC (for video).

      My anti-virus came up for renewal. It was $30 for a year. The only software I used by t

    • People keep referring to Linux and Linux-based distributions with this 'GNU' thing in the name? What's up with that?

      I hope you are being funny, but if you are not, I will explain. or even if you are, in case someone else wants to know.

      The assertion is that it should be called GNU/Linux because Linux depends on GNU for userspace, build tools, et cetera.

      This was once true, but is actually not true any more.

      Debian is explicitly called Debian GNU/Linux for this reason. Debian is pretty much the gnuest (but not the newest, ha ha) distribution out there. It has higher ideals than any other Linux that I'm aware of; read the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) [debian.org] for more information.

      Richard Stallman has written a whiny diatribe on the subject entitled Linux and the GNU Project [gnu.org]. Here is an excerpt:

      "What they found was no accident--it was the not-quite-complete GNU system. The available free software added up to a complete system because the GNU Project had been working since 1984 to make one. In the The GNU Manifesto we set forth the goal of developing a free Unix-like system, called GNU. The Initial Announcement of the GNU Project also outlines some of the original plans for the GNU system. By the time Linux was written, GNU was almost finished."

      GNU was almost finished? Yeah, except for the lack of a useful kernel. When the HURD finally came out it was extraordinarily limited for an operating system of its day, including a lack of support for filesystems over 2GB.

      You may have noticed that I have no sympathy for the view of forcing people to call it GNU/Linux. Why not? Because it's inconsistent. As per the terms of the GPL I am free to fork GCC and call it something entirely different that has nothing to do with GNU. No one is trying to take anything away from GNU or the FSF by calling various Linux distributions Linux. No one is trying to hide the fact that the majority of systems (but again, not all!) are based on or built with the GNU userland. They are only apparently not giving GNU sufficient credit. If GNU needs more credit, that should have been in the license. If it's not worth putting in the license, then shut up already.

      • Re:What is with the GNU tag? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Chandon Seldon (43083) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @05:10PM (#18508489) Homepage

        This was once true, but is actually not true any more.

        You're right. Rather than using the GNU System on top of Linux you could take the userspace component of another Free unix-like system and run that on top of Linux. You could build a Solaris/Linux system or a NetBSD/Linux system. In addition, for embedded systems that don't need to be fully functional Unix-like systems, you can put a simpler userspace on top of the Linux kernel - this is commonly seen in embedded systems.

        But... you can't claim that Linux is a Unix-like operating system and also claim that the GNU component of GNU/Linux systems is trivial. Without GNU, Linux is not a general purpose operating system - you'd have to drop in an entire other Unix-like system in order to get Unix-like functionality without GNU. Without Linux, the GNU System will run fine on any of the BSD kernels, on the Solaris kernel, or even on the (still not ready for production use) GNU HURD kernel.

        To be very simple and clear: The GNU System has produced a Unix-like operating system that most commonly runs on the Linux kernel. The only replacements for GNU are other full Unix-like operating systems.

    • Re:Good start... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dvice_null (981029) on Tuesday March 27 2007, @03:54PM (#18507415)
      I was a newbie with both Photoshop and Gimp. Here are the results:
      - With Gimp, I could draw some images, but I couldn't draw lines with it (later I learned how to do that)
      - With Photoshop, I couldn't draw anything. Never figured out how to do this.

      So I think that both are complex and not intuitive enough. But because other is free and the other is not, I would certainly choose Gimp and learn using it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by nasch (598556)

      A common problem with GNU/Linux for new users is not the operating system, but the switch in applications they must undertake to use it. Many who try to make the switch have little experience with the common open source applications available under GNU/Linux.

      This is a ridiculous statement!

      It's not ridiculous at all. If there were Linux versions of Outlook, Photoshop, Office, Taxcut/whatever financial software, and so on... how many people would have a problem using the same apps in Linux? Very few - t

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