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Circuit City and the American Dream
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:35 PM
from the scrambling-for-less dept.
from the scrambling-for-less dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Circuit City said yesterday that it had fired 3,400 of its highest-paid sales staff — 8% of its employees — and will replace them with lower-paid workers. Sign On San Diego called this 'a risky strategy to cut costs that goes beyond the layoffs, buyouts and hiring freezes commonly used by struggling companies.' The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said. Quoting a Circuit City spokesman: 'This is no reflection on job performance... We deeply regret the negative impact. Retail is extremely competitive, and if we're going to thrive and operate a successful company... we just have to control costs.' So: work hard, become the best in your field, and get fired so they can offer you a new job 10 weeks later at a lower salary."
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Circuit City Rewards Execs As Stock Tanks 354 comments
jamie tipped us to Dean Baker's Beat the Press blog, where Baker comments on a followup to Circuit City's firing of all its highest-paid salespeople last March (Slashdot discussion here). Circuit City's stock has cratered in the meanwhile, and their response has been to offer $1 million retention bonuses to executive VPs. Baker points out that each one of these bonuses represents 35 years' salary for one of the fired salespeople.
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You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, sorry -- the folks working at Circuit City don't generally really qualify as being the "best in their field", unless you're defining the "field" as "people who work at Circuit City". Besides, Circuit City's not on commission anymore so you can't even argue that these folks were necessarily their top performers.
But let's accept for a moment the premise of this article. If these folks really are such great salesmen, this is opportunity knockin' at their door -- they can get better jobs at higher-end stores, they can start their own higher-end stores, they can get into selling something that has worthwhile commissions involved with it like software or cars or whatever. I mean, let's face it: Being the best sales associate at Circuit City is along the same lines as being the best cook at McDonald's. If that's where your vision ends, that's almost certainly where you belong.
That aside, what offends me most is that this thread is this horrific notion that we've devolved to a point where the meaning of the term "American dream" has mutated from 'boundless opportunity in the marketplace and the ability to move out of the economic class you were born into' to 'lifetime employment at Circuit City'.
Speaking only for myself, if that really were the case then I'd want no part of it.
The American Dream as I understand it is that when you get laid off from a shitty dead-end job you can go out and find or create something better if you have the drive and/or ability for it. And hey, if your lack the skills or the ambition to go out and work to better your situation, you can always reapply -- I'm sure that red shirt will fit just as well in ten weeks as it does now.
Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Funny)
After 10 weeks bored out of your mind on the couch, watching tv with a beer in your hand and listening to your wife pestering you to find another job? not sure the red shirt will fit anymore...
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because they're not paid for their performance doesn't mean their performance is not evaluated on the basis of sales.
The whole "don't worry, I'm not commission" line that Best Buy made famous is just that, a ploy to comfort the mark.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, someone should set up "stores" that don't make money on sales at all, but essentially just rent you access to the showroom so you can figure out what you need (and then perhaps rate the people there based on how informative they are -- like Slashdot) and then find the cheapest place online to get it (either using their computers there or just go home having a better idea of what you need). They would have no qualms about telling you, "ah, you don't need this stuff".
Depending on the money needed to make it work, you could either run them for-profit or as a co-op where your "membership fee" is all or partly your service of working there part-time in a department you're already knowledgeable about. You help people find what computer they should get, and in return, old folks there teach you what gardening equipment you should get (for example).
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Funny)
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Have we learned NOTHING from Star Trek? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
While I appreciate your sentiment and agree that the 'American Dream' is MUCH more than lifelong employment at Circuit City, I'd like to offer an opposing view of what is going on here.
My view is basically this: The American Dream, as you defined (and which I think most Americans would agree with) - is crap. And this action on Circuit City's part only confirms that assertion. It's a lie we tell ourselves to take pride in something that is inherently destructive, something that while it seems good in theory, becomes nearly impossible in practice: Capitalism itself.
I have spent the better part of my life attempting to understand the intricacies of human nature, particularly with regard to how they influence our social systems (and thus, what the requirements of those social systems are) - and the one point that has always stuck with me is Capitalism itself.
It seems like such an ideal solution, doesn't it, the economic embodiment of freedom, the nearly boundless promise of free enterprise..
Except that when you make money the motivating factor for why you do things, the things that SHOULD motivate you as a human being in a human culture - cease to function. The RIAA's recent behavior (suing a 10 year old girl.. come on) eloquently demonstrates this assertion.
Oh certainly, money need not be the ONLY motivating factor, and for a long time it wasn't. But over time it becomes harder to justify taking a hit to the bottom line just because you care about your employees, doesn't it? Especially when your shareholders are harping on you to increase the stock's value. Especially when there are, at any given moment, dozens of lawsuits against companies for NOT fulfilling their obligations to shareholders.
And especially, when companies are so richly rewarded for their abuse of the human cultures in which they participate.
What I am getting at is this: Circuit City doesn't care one whit about the success of our civilization, and accordingly, the value of their employees as ANYTHING OTHER than "human resources" is essentially nil. There is no value in seeing them as people, because well, it makes them just slightly less profitable. Can't have that now.
No, society falls to shit, and the money-making business doesn't care.. because if the society fails, there's no need for money anyway, but so long as it exists, those with wealth hold all the cards.
Seeing people as human beings is a liability in a civilization that values wealth as much as we do.
Quoting Heinlein, "a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot."
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are features of Capitalism which I do actually really like, and that I still think are workable. But since capitalism is a system we invented, we are consequently responsible for how we run it. The choices we make, the values we hold, influence how we build our civilization. We can choose to be responsible in our pursuit of value, or we can choose to cut every corner, cut every throat, in our grasp for wealth.
Currently, we are increasingly choosing the latter. It doesn't have to be that way. But Capitalism isn't an end in itself, and its purpose can ONLY BE to serve us.. but we have to make it do so. It's hard, to choose to give up wealth for values, but that isn't really a sacrifice, when we consider how much our values actually mean to us.
Unfortunately, we don't seem to be making that choice. Or we are, and what we're choosing really is this destructive.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
The "constant layoffs" are not new to 2007, it has been going on for decades. The 80's had a bad reputation for the decade of greed for the same reason. Again, all you have is what you know you can do. No company will ever "give" you security.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, no.
I work for the government. I'm a "civil servant". I make high 5 figures, and I'm not management. I'm a member of a union. I will not be fired / layed off / downsized / whatever.
Have a nice day.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? You think it's conducive to team building and happy productive employees that get paid reasonably good wages to hold the possibility of layoffs a la corporate greed over their heads? I'm the original poster, and I'll tell you this: The agency I work for has very high standards, excellent employees, and is an all-around great place to work. This is good since we fly planes. It would be extremely hard to attract the quality of personnel that we have if we didn't offer an extremely stable employment environment. We rely on the continuity of experienced employees that don't have to worry about keeping an eye on the Help Wanted ads. All jobs should be like this, people would be a lot happier. With happiness comes productivity.
When I hear people bitch about the benefits that government employees enjoy, I think two things: Most wish they had those same benefits, and are jealous that they do not. The fact of the matter is, the reason that most people outside the rarefied air of the executive class don't have these benefits is corporate greed.
Don't blame government employees that they have it so good, blame corporate pigs that they screw their employees.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
The "constant layoffs" are not new to 2007, it has been going on for decades. The 80's had a bad reputation for the decade of greed for the same reason. Again, all you have is what you know you can do. No company will ever "give" you security.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
I love how all of the large retail business like this are always stressing "team work" and "family" to employees and expect employees to be devoted to the company when most of these same companies will ruin the lives of their employees the second it is 0.001% more profitable for them to do so.
I particularly love the occasional business article that pops up in which employers have the audacity to complain that new employees show no loyalty to their companies and aren't willing to invest in their jobs. Well, that's because we aren't all morons. Corporate culture set the tone and will now have to live with the results.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Your vision of the american dream (the one I had before too) is the stereotypical Horatio Alger story that permeates the entire work culture of the United States, that can be summed up as: if you work hard, you will rise and get a better life. Unfortunately, and this is something that you learn as you get older and have been working for a while for one, more likely several companies, the Horatio Alger dream is just that, a dream. Yes it would be very nice if it was still true, but the reality is that very VERY few better their lives through hard work and perseverance. Very few people start out selling apples and end up millionaires, a-la rockefeller. What happens in reality is that most of the population toils to pays credit, and a sizeable part of the population toils just to make ends meet and stay off the street.
It's my opinion that the so-called american dream is mostly a myth implanted in people's minds early on in their lives to make them work harder for the same wage, constantly hoping for better days. The reality of America today is that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class finds the "middle" slowly drifting to the bottom.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "leftist" who complains about social inequalities, I have nothing against people being rich, and I myself work hard to have a better future, but without much hope because unfortunately, the social elevator that would allow people to make their lives better through hard work is mostly out of order: most of America is inside the cabin frantically pushing the buttons, hoping that it will finally start to rise, and it doesn't. I think you'll come to realize this too one day.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:4, Insightful)
That is simply not true. Did the poor in the 1950s have access to the kind of healthcare that someone on Medicare has to now? Did they drive better cards? Did they have access to the kind of technology ppl have access to today?
Yes, the rich get richer much much faster than the poor do - but it is false to say that the poor get poorer. That is only true in socialist paradises like Zimbabwe and soon Venezuela.
Read this [latimes.com] for some more commentary. There is also a piece by the leader of the communist party of the USA for more 'balanced' coverage.
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Wrong (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
The second point that is often missed when discussing the American Dream is what made it possible: something I will call the "American Spirit"--that we, as a people, are willing to reach out and give others a hand along the way. I, by no means, suggest that this spirit is unique to America, but I do believe that--at one time--the world would have been hard-pressed to find more of it per-capita than anywhere else in the world. Today, sadly, it is in decline. Up-and-comers demonstrated this spirit by giving good jobs to their employees, and by contributing to those in need. Socially responsible corporations, while tending to long-term profitability and short-term objectives, did this by having a sense of loyalty to those who helped build the corporation. If we, in America, have had any failure, it is in this second aspect--a failure of the American Spirit.
What disgusts me most about the Circuit City scenario (which is also played out in many other industries every day) is that these "artificial persons" (for what is a corporation if not a legally recognized entity under law?) have forsaken their responsibility to society in order to worship at the altar of profitability.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that businesses cannot take action to maintain their profitability--my degree is in business management and technology, so I understand the factors--but I would argue that it was a failure of management that brought them to this place. Had the leadership of Circuit City fully exercised their duty to their business, the could have stemmed this time years ago. Yes, I know many of you will scream "armchair quarterback" or "20/20 hindsight," but it was clear (to me, at least) that Circuit City expanded too aggressively, they did little to differentiate from their fierce competitors, and they never looked (successfully, at least) strategically at their industry and market trends. In other words: they should have seen this coming and made a minor course correction before they were thousands of miles at sea.
After reading the article today, and other recent news on Circuit City, I'm just glad I never accepted a position with them back in 1997. The American Dream is not holy writ that allows us each to pursue our interests at the expense of our neighbors. It is objectification of the notion that we all have the opportunity to reach toward a lofty goal--of establishing a place in this world, a good home for our families, adding stability to our communities, and having a (positive) impact on society along the way. Do all achieve this dream? No, but we can be part of it.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm in my mid twenties, and am constantly amazed at what people in my age range feel entitled to. I expect to work my way up, and don't expect any particular loyalty from my employer. Pension plan ha - that's a good one - now tell me about social security that cracks me up every time. On the flip side that they expect some long-term loyalty from me is really hilarious.
However, that circuit city feels that they can exercise their lack of loyalty so egregiously is disgusting. As soon as I read about this I decided not to spend another dime there - not that big a loss since the last three times I went in there prepared to throw money at them they made it so frustrating that I drove the extra 15 minutes to Best Buy (not exactly the savior of the little guy I know).
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Reminds me of a similar situation... (Score:5, Funny)
The fired workers have a chance to apply for lower-paying positions after a 10-week wait, the company said.
However, that circuit city feels that they can exercise their lack of loyalty so egregiously is disgusting.
Recently, my girlfriend dumped me but said I was encouraged to reapply for the position of "friend" instead. I told her that if she upgraded the offer to "friends with benefits" that we could consider that a severance package for my being so loyal to her. She told me rather sternly to take or leave her original offer.
Bitch.
GMD
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even crappy retail jobs that are being derided on this site had these kind of benefits. A retail person COULD own a house, believe it or not... almost impossible today.
Of course, back then we had control over markets, imposed trade barriers, and the population had significant union representation. We also actually manufactured things, as opposed to today. Conservatives who want to go back to the 50's conveniently forget these facts.
But, it is irrelevant... at some point we became so jaded when these ideals were stripped from our society, that we now resent and try to bring down anyone who still has health insurance, union membership, or a pension plan. Instead of demanding more for ourselves, we are demanding less for everyone else--somehow it is better for everyone to be dragged down rather than lifting everyone up.
It's a little depressing that Americans have been so beaten down by the system that they are afraid to stand up for themselves. What's even sadder is that posters like yourself seem intent on cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It is no wonder that the United States of America is in such a bad state. It's time for America to rise up and demand the America Dream again. It is our birthright, but only if we stand up for it.
Thanks,
Mike
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
And as a guy who turns 55 next week, I'm sorry that yours doesn't. If you work hard, you SHOULD BE entitled to the fruits of your labors.
If you're lazy, steal from your employer, go to work drunk, act like a total jerk to your fellow employees then you should lose your job. But to lose your job when the fat cat CEO earns five hundred times what you do [finfacts.com] so that the company can hire a replacement for you at a lower pay rate, well, that's just plain damned evil.
And for you, as a worker, to believe that this is in any way fair or equitable, or that your employer doesn't owe you a living for your labor, well, that's just plain retarded. If you believe that, you fucking deserve to lose your job.
It's time to quintuple the minimum wage, and then bring back the unions. Bullshit like Circut City never happened back when 75% of workers were unionized. Now that only 10% of us are in unions, they have us by the balls. And it's idiots like you who think it's the UNIONS that are evil that allow this bullshit to happen! Grow a fucking brain, moron.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, it is evil. Hopefully this news will keep people from applying to Circuit City. I know I sure as hell would not want to work somewhere that's going to do something like this. With no one wanting to pickup those jobs, they'll just fall further and further until they've declared bankruptcy and closed down the whole chain. In fact, even if I wasn't one of the ones layed off, I'd definitely be looking for a new job now. Despite the stock price going up, this is going to prove to be disastrous for them. Hell, start a boycott if you want. They may sell some decent stuff, but they treat their employees like shit, so there's no reason to patronize them.
Hopefully people will remember this so that if the mere idea ever creeps into another CEO's head he'll forget about it instantly or risk losing his company.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)
GM may be having problems because of pensions, but remember they made the promises in the first place. They could have invested to make sure they could pay out on those benefits, but instead they followed the modern corporate motto - "If you can no longer compete, buy some random crappy companies and increase your debtload". So they squandered money on investments that in no way made their automobile business more competitive as their market share dwindled. Ditto for Ford. Those are poorly run companies. They ran afoul of the unions and could no longer compete in labor, sure. But that was only one bad business decision among thousands. Having billions of dollars in medical and pension costs is only a problem if you aren't selling cars.
So what's your problem capitalist? Go sell some fucking cars and all your problems will go away.
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Re:You have *got* to be kidding me. (Score:4, Insightful)
In court, you're right. But to a reasonable person, if I work hard for someone, I deserve and am owed respect and fair treatment. It doesn't mean I'm going to get it, just like having a right to life, liberty, and happiness doesn't prevent the government from doing its level best to interfere with all three.
The most important message is that respect works both ways, but fear only works in one. If you work for an employer who, when they fire someone, always just drops it on them without notice, that has a chilling effect on your loyalty. If you work for an employer who fires people and hires them back at less pay to save money, well, don't you think that has a chilling effect? It's bad for everyone.
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Short Circuit City (Score:5, Insightful)
--David Korten
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Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
"In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."
What do employee/employer relationships at Best Buy have to do with democracy? Nobody has subverted representative government here. One particular corporate entity has made a business decision to cut labor costs by getting rid of some of its more highly-paid employees. There's no violation of contract, no usurpation of rights. There is no right to employment in the United States, and never has been.
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So what if it is? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's like your plumber telling you "Hey, uh, you should really pay me twice as much, because if you don't, you're just going to keep the money for yourself."
If you want money, EARN it. Don't expect it to just be handed to you.
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Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Stupid management never suffers, only employees. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just another chapter in an old story. The top management of Circuit City doesn't know what they are doing, so the company has trouble making money, but it is only the employees who suffer.
--
Is U.S. government violence a good in the world, or does violence just cause more violence?
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So take your business to Best Buy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So take your business to Best Buy (Score:5, Funny)
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Will Circuit City get (Score:5, Insightful)
Jumping the logical gap. (Score:4, Interesting)
There is a huge logical gap between "We're not getting rid of these people for performance reasons" and "These people are the best in their field". I don't think you can read any of this and come away even with the idea that these people were any better than the other, lower paid employees in their same stores. If they think they can employ the *exact same people* for less money in 10 weeks, then clearly these salespeople were paid beyond what the market can bear.
Why do we need to make up negative stuff about this when we could simply point to the fact that the salary savings look pathetic in comparison to what they continue to pay their executives?
Re:Jumping the logical gap. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Jumping the logical gap. (Score:4, Insightful)
"I quit".
I've seen it done, and, unfortunately, did it myself, once. And my best salesman quit.
People determine their value on what they get paid. If they are valuable to your company(high dollar sale people), pay them more to keep them. Don't force them to make it up in more sales. Someone else will pay them the base they're looking for, in addition to the commission. I'd rather pay one person who has great sales 10% more each year, than two people who are little more than warm bodies taking up space.
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Didn't they do this years ago? (Score:5, Insightful)
Either that or they need the stock boost that comes from indiscriminately firing workers - Wall Street loves that.
The lowest of the low (Score:5, Insightful)
Parody (Score:5, Funny)
Business savvy decision allows new employees a chance at sales fame.
Top business analysts have determined that a growing number of people have become "too wealthy for their own good", according to one high-ranking Wall Street spokesperson. "It is in the interest of the common good that we allow other, less priveleged folks, to have the opportunity to buy their own food and afford both rent and car payments."
The dismissed workers, having reached their allowed quota of wealth, were given peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on their way out the door and told that they could reapply after their savings had been reduced to zero. While the average lifespan of a salesman's savings is about ten weeks, according to financial analysts, it was widely agreed that dismissed employees would not truly be eligible for reassignment until they had accumulated enough debt to prevent them from ever owning a house or car again.
"These people were beginning to factor into systems that have long been the exclusive playgrounds of the rich and powerful. We simply could not allow them to tip the scales and upset the balance," said Circuit City spokesman Bill Cimino.
It doesn't matter (Score:5, Insightful)
The CC stores I've been in have lots of empty shelves, especially in the home audio area. The center area is mostly CDs and DVDs. They had a decent selection of TVs, which, supposedly, are low margin items, so they're not going to be much help in keeping CC profitable.
UNIONIZE (Score:4, Insightful)
I do (Score:4, Insightful)
I do when you don't have a choice about joining the union or not, which is generally what happens with unions - and they turn that same attitude back on fellow workers they do not like.
A workers union is a slippery slope to a whole other parallel layer of management above you, and that honestly does not do the company or you any good in the long run.
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Re:UNIONIZE (Score:5, Interesting)
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The will become K-Mart (Score:5, Insightful)
First boycott Best Buy, now Circuit City? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, this reminds me of a friend of mine. He graduated from college with a degree in History. Yes, a rather un-saleable degree. So he lived on my couch for a few months after he graduated while he tried to find a job. The only job he could find was telephone credit card sales. Yes, he was *THAT* guy. Every day, he came home from his job, the first words out of his mouth were "I hate my job." What made it even worse is that he was *GOOD* at it. His second month there, he set a sales record. His third month, he broke that record. Then he got fired. Because he wasn't following the script to the letter.
Now, if someone comes in, and, by *NOT* following the script to the letter (he did say all the parts that the law requires creditors to say,) sets sales records two months in a row (he got a plastic slinky with the company name on it in thanks,) shouldn't you have the OTHER people follow his lead, rather than fire him?
Re:First boycott Best Buy, now Circuit City? (Score:4, Interesting)
Simple truth? The highest paid slashdotter isn't magically worth more than that Wal-mart store greeter. We all should be making min. wage and min. wage should be enough to buy a house, car, food, pay monthly electric, cable, internet, cell phone bills, raise offspring on and then donate more money for boyscouts, girlscouts, schoolfund raisers, or other various charities, and let's not forget about Christmas were you are expected to buy tons of gifts for family and little gifts for special friends and family. (Pity you if you have a large family.) Oh, afford various insurances life, health, auto, home, and anything else that folks need.
You need to do all that on min. wage. Now, tell me what "min. wage" needs to be. It's been funny reading this. This article assumes that a college educated person can find a job that'll pay 4x5 times min. wage. Um, we aren't worth that much more than a highschool drop out though we'd like to think we deserve a lot more money than them because we made it through college.
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Re:First boycott Best Buy, now Circuit City? (Score:4, Funny)
Assuming that "you" are the guy in charge of a credit card telemarketing company? No, that isn't what you should do. You should, in fact, find the nearest wood chipper and jump in.
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Get in line now, avoid the rush (Score:5, Funny)
Circuit City: You make too much money. You're fired.
Dumbass Employee: What? Noooooooo! My PS3 comes in next week and I need the employee discount! I'll work for less!
CC: Not good enough. First you must go without a paycheck for 10 weeks to prove you are worthy.
DE: Aaaggghhhh! Okay, then what? I'll do anything.
CC: Then you must crawl back here, and I do mean crawl, and beg for your job back at half your previous salary!
DE: *sobbing* I'll do it!
CC: Oh, and bring me a shrubbery.
A little insight (Score:5, Informative)