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New Sony DVDs Not Working In Some Players

Posted by kdawson on Sun Apr 15, 2007 04:33 PM
from the DRMed-out dept.
An anonymous reader writes "It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony — specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness — have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players. This doesn't appear to be covered by the major media yet, but this link to a discussion over at Amazon gives a flavor of the problems people are experiencing. A blogger called Sony and was told the problem is with the new copy protection scheme, and they do not intend to fix it. Sony says it's up to the manufacturers to update their hardware."
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[+] Sony Fixes Problems With New DVDs 210 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Following up on reports that DVDs for some Sony titles were causing problems, Video Business is reporting that Sony has fixed the copy-protection problem on recent DVD releases, and will provide replacement discs to customers. The problem was with the ARccOS DRM system. The company issued the following statement: 'Recently, an update that was installed on approximately 20 titles was found to cause an incompatibility issue with a very small number of DVD players (Sony has received complaints on less than one thousandth of one percent of affected discs shipped)... Since then, the ARccOS system has once again been updated, and there are no longer any playability problems.' Customers can call 800-860-2878 to inquire about replacement discs."
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  • Gee. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Khaed (544779) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:34PM (#18744247)
    Sony DRM pissing customers off. Why does that sound so familiar?
    • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Funny)

      by celticryan (887773) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:38PM (#18744279)
      Nothing new to see here people, keep moving...
    • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:26PM (#18744691)
      I wonder if the new DRM's been successful at keeping those movies off the torrent sites [isohunt.com]. Because if the article's to be believed, it's certainly been successful at pissing off paying customers, and what would be the point of doing that if the movies were still being pirated anyway [torrentspy.com]?

      Tickletaint [slashdot.org] (forced to post logged-out due to modbombing)
          • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Funny)

            by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Sunday April 15 2007, @08:31PM (#18746035) Homepage

            Seriously, you literal-minded milksops are destroying the Slashdot I used to know and love.
            Well, it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it. And I, for one, have nothing better to do, though you might want to put some of the blame where it deservedly belongs ... squarely on the shoulders of Global Warming.
    • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheSHAD0W (258774) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:56PM (#18745381) Homepage
      (1) Buy DVD, stick it in DVD player, sit down w/ wife & kids to watch the movie - no joy.
      (2) Swap at store, still no joy. Try to return, get hit with restocking fee - take DVD home irate.
      (3) Call Sony to complain, get told to update player.
      (4) Call player manufacturer to complain, get told "sorry, we've no idea, your player is out of warranty, go away". Now you're broiling angry.
      (5) Discover software that rips the CD, despite whatever security measure on it, and burns it to a DVD-R.
      (6) Realize you can do the same thing with DVD-R images on the net, and start downloading.

      Congratulations, Sony, for having turned a customer over to the Dark Side with your wonderful customer relations program!
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 15 2007, @07:57PM (#18745781)
        If it was just that... You forgot the "convenience" of:
        -having to get dressed according to weather
        -burn some expensive fossil fuels and put wear on an expensive car
        -wasting a half hour in city traffic getting cut all the time -- both ways
        -hunting for parking spots
        -walk around a store full of unhelpful minimum-wage/comission employees looking for what you want (hopefully you won't impulse buy anything you don't need in the process)
        -standing in line for a half hour to pay for it
        -find out it doesn't play on your computer either (unless you shell out money for something like AnyDVD)

        And possibly things like buying a new DVD player (more $) only to find out (if it even works at all) that there's unskippable previews and such crap (FBI warnings) on the disc too.

        Whereas using P2P I can download the thing in mere minutes. No DRM, no protection that prevents playing, no rootkits, no unskippable previews, no FBI warnings -- none of the usual crap. No need to waste time ripping/re-encoding it in mpeg4 to put it on my video server either.

        I would rather pay for a un-DRM'ed mpeg4 rip direct download then buy the DVD, but studios won't let us, much less for decent prices. Pirating is easy, fast (~30 seconds to start the transfer then downloads overnight), convenient and often provides you with a better product (at least an un-crippled one) -- and much cheaper too. As a bonus, you're not being treated like a thief by the pirated copy (oh the irony). So people pirate instead.
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Funny)

        by BronsCon (927697) <social@bronstrup.com> on Sunday April 15 2007, @08:12PM (#18745913) Journal
        This is all a part of the Sony Customer Rage Assurance Program

        Sony CRAP, for short
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Stripe7 (571267) on Sunday April 15 2007, @08:56PM (#18746207)
        It is not functional and it is not the fault of your player. There should not be a restock fee. If there is SONY should be paying it not you. They are selling you defective merchandise.
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Khaed (544779) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:27PM (#18744693)
        I don't care how many branches there are. The DVD division ought to make sure their damn product plays.

        Making Grandma update the firmware on a DVD player just to make it take two minutes longer for a pirate to copy a DVD is stupid.
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lewp (95638) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:54PM (#18744885) Journal

        I think it's a little bit naive to expect one branch of a multi-national corporation to talk very well with another.

        When one branch of that multinational corporation is making discs specifically designed to play in another branch's hardware, then no, I don't think that's a little bit naive whatsoever. I don't expect the computer division to hit up the TV stand division about every little thing, but it seems like "we're making a new type of DVD, so let's call up the guys who make the DVD players and make sure nothing broke" is a thought that should have occured to someone.

        • That's the problem (Score:5, Insightful)

          by rolfwind (528248) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:41PM (#18745245)
          It shouldn't be called a "new type of DVD" nor sold as such.

          Maybe I'm wrong, but like some "CDs" in the past that incorporated some copy protection and couldn't carry the CD logo/seal any longer on the cover, wouldn't the same thing apply here? Can Sony legimitately still call this thing a DVD anymore without being sued for fraud?
          • by EvanED (569694) <evaned@noSpAm.gmail.com> on Sunday April 15 2007, @07:04PM (#18745451)
            Maybe I'm wrong, but like some "CDs" in the past that incorporated some copy protection and couldn't carry the CD logo/seal any longer on the cover, wouldn't the same thing apply here? Can Sony legimitately still call this thing a DVD anymore without being sued for fraud?

            Perhaps the DVD-Video logo, but it's still a DVD. You can get software on DVDs. You can't play them in your video player, but they are still DVDs.

            Actually, it's the same thing with CDs. CDs with copy protection are still CDs; they just can't carry the CDDA (CD Digital Audio) logo.
              • by Danse (1026) on Sunday April 15 2007, @07:43PM (#18745711)

                Don't know about the general population, but I had no idea about that until people mentioned it here on slashdot. The CDs are in the CD part of the store, then I assume it is a CD. Same goes for DVDs.

                And that's what they want you to think. And it's understandable if people don't know all the guidelines that go into those logos. However, the bottom line is that if you buy a DVD and it doesn't play in your player, you should return it and demand your money back. Let the stores deal with the manufacturers.
          • by Guppy06 (410832) on Sunday April 15 2007, @07:58PM (#18745789) Journal
            "but like some "CDs" in the past that incorporated some copy protection and couldn't carry the CD logo/seal any longer on the cover"

            "Some?" A pseudorandom sample of CDs inspected at some local big-name stores that sell CDs have produced no CD audio logos that I could find. These newfangled "FBI warnings" seem to have taken their place.
      • Re:Gee. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by timeOday (582209) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:39PM (#18745239)

        I think it's a little bit naive to expect one branch of a multi-national corporation to talk very well with another.
        I think it's a little bit naive of you and Sony to think people will care about Sony's internal problems when people's shiny new Sony-branded products fail to function as advertised. If their stuff doesn't work, it isn't worth the money. Why that occurs is not my problem.
  • by scubamage (727538) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:37PM (#18744273)
    Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players? If it wasn't, wouldn't that be a bait and switch scam? Just saying, they may have just opened up the floodgates to yet another massive lawsuit.
    • by ScrewMaster (602015) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:46PM (#18744357)
      The music studios got in trouble with Phillips on that score: they were told flatly that if it doesn't conform to the published spec they can't use any relevant tradmarks, call it a Compact Disc, use the CD logo, etc. But given how the DVD industry is structured, I doubt much will come of this.
      • Bait and Switch (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Original Replica (908688) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:07PM (#18744505) Journal
        Yes, Phillips did the enforcing on CD encoding standards because of their trademark control. The DVD industry has no internal standards enforcement, so this mihgt be the time to bring in external enforcement, namely the courts. If the box says "DVD" it should play in a DVD player. Sonys product is only DVD-like and as such should not be legal to sell as a DVD. It would be like a gas station selling ethanol but calling it gasoline, sure it still works in some vehicles, but it's not the same product.
      • by digitig (1056110) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:44PM (#18744805)

        The music studios got in trouble with Phillips on that score: they were told flatly that if it doesn't conform to the published spec they can't use any relevant tradmarks, call it a Compact Disc, use the CD logo, etc.
        Yes -- and when did you last see any of those things on what-looks-like-a-CD packaging? Hereabouts it all seemed to vanish from the packaging at about the time Philips made that clampdown.
    • by TekPolitik (147802) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:01PM (#18744935) Journal

      Just thinking about it, if they're selling them using the DVD label identifying it as a dvd, doesn't it legally have to be playable in dvd compatible players?

      This will depend very much on the local laws. In Australia a DVD that fails to play in a significant number of DVD players meets the statutory definition of unmerchantability, which requires goods to be suitable for every purpose for which they are normally bought (unlike other places where they have to be suitable for just one of the purposes for which they are normally bought). This will give the consumer the right to a refund, but won't lead to any penalty. There is also an argument that applying the label "DVD" to the product (or even selling it in a manner that makes it seem like it is a DVD) is misleading conduct for which anybody could apply to the Federal Court to get an injunction to prevent the product from being sold in that way.

  • Works For Me (Score:5, Informative)

    by thesaint05 (850634) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:38PM (#18744287)
    I have a Pioneer DVD player, maybe second generation. The thing is huge, and probably something like 8 years old. Casino Royale works just fine in it. Granted, that sucker will play just about anything you throw in there, from DivX to DVD +/- RW. Best DVD player I ever bought, and one of the reasons why I still only buy Pioneer DVD players. Makes you wonder about what's in some of the other newer DVD players if my old one can play Casino Royale with no problems...?
    • Re:Works For Me (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Marc_Hawke (130338) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:46PM (#18744361)
      That's what I was thinking as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sony reps didn't lead him down the wrong road.

      Reading the comments at Amazon and the blog, it sounds like it's just certain NEW models of players that aren't working. So instead of saying "It's our new copy protection and we won't fix it, but you can update your machine,' they should have said, "There's a bug in these models of players and they need a PATCH, which we are working on."

      I guess they need to tell the truth (hah hah hah) but it seems unlikely that it could be the players and not the disks.

      However, I guess if it's a relatively SMALL set of disks that have problems on these players....

      I don't know. I still vote that there's nothing changed about the DISKs, and it's just a flaw with the devices.
      • Re:Works For Me (Score:5, Informative)

        by WhoBeDaPlaya (984958) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:16PM (#18744605) Homepage
        IINM, it IS the discs - with Sony's ARccOS [wikipedia.org] protection.
        • Re:Works For Me (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:52PM (#18744871)
          Please stop using obscure and useless acronyms.
          If I'm Not Mistaken... How hard was that? huh?

          BRB/TYT/LOL/etc. were useful at a time when we had to "pay" for being online by the hour (or the minute for some) and had 10 private chat windows open, 5 IRC channels, etc.

          Did typing IINM save you anything? A couple of keystrokes? Is it that widely used?

          No, it doesn't make you look/sound smarter, because there are a LOT of acronyms that are just plain dumb.

          Sorry for going off, I didn't mean to shoot directly at you, just the whole acronym thing is driving me up a wall.
  • Dammit... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chouonsoku (1009817) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:38PM (#18744289) Homepage
    Now I can't make fun of Microsoft for having HD-DVDs that don't play on the Xbox 360.
  • by User 956 (568564) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:44PM (#18744343) Homepage
    It seems that the most recent DVDs released by Sony -- specifically Stranger Than Fiction, Casino Royale, and The Pursuit of Happyness -- have some kind of 'feature' that makes them unplayable on many DVD players.

    Yeah, that's the copy protection feature. Hollywood finally figured out that if you can view it, you can copy it. If they simply make the content unplayable, nobody can pirate the movie!
  • Alternatives (Score:5, Informative)

    by karnal (22275) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:45PM (#18744351)
    If you're having trouble playing them on the legit side, why not just rip them? Besides the moral issues, you could burn and watch then destroy the copy.....

    2 options: Ripit4me (in conjunction with dvddecrypter) or dvdfab decrypter....

    *ahem*verified on Stranger Than Fiction*ahem*

  • Happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pionzypher (886253) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:47PM (#18744369)
    I bought Casino Royale two weeks ago. When I got it home, neither my Toshiba in the living room, or the Pioneer in the bedroom would play it.

    So I ripped it and returned it.
      • Re:Happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)

        by D-Cypell (446534) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:29PM (#18744719)
        I've never been able to return a defective DVD, except to get another copy of the same one.

        I don't know how it works in the US and elsewhere in the world but in the UK we have consumer protection legislation which says if a product is not 'fit for purpose' then we have a legal right to a full refund.

        Occasionally a shop assistant will call over the manager and the manager will try to get 'cute'. In this situation you would be amazed how effective it is to kick up a little (and slightly noisy) fuss. Most managers are not too happy to see such things in their shops, it tends to put the browsing customers off. I dislike this behaviour when the customer is in the wrong, such as demanding a refund for a product that is an incorrect size or they just don't like (there is no legal provision for this, some shops offer a courtesy exchange, an offer to be accepted with gratitude), however, I don't like being screwed out of my rights and am happy to protest loudly when required and entitled.

        Should I be unfortunate enough to purchase one of these DVDs... pray you are not managing the shop when I come to return it :)
        • Re:Happened to me (Score:5, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:59PM (#18744925)
          I don't know how it works in the US and elsewhere in the world but in the UK we have consumer protection legislation which says if a product is not 'fit for purpose' then we have a legal right to a full refund.

          Yeah, we used to have that in the U.S. We also used to have fair use rights.
  • by ditoa (952847) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:48PM (#18744371)
    that this new copy protection system will not stop the DVD from being ripped and will only effect people who legally bought the DVD.

    It is things like this that make me cautious about buying media from Sony these days. I have no problem with buying DVDs however one of the reasons I buy a DVD is that I know it will work perfectly in any DVD I wish to buy (unlike XviD rips from BitTorrent or Usenet) however apparently this isn't true anymore so DVD is now no better than a rip downloaded from the internet.

    It is a shame that the companies are worsening their products with these copy protection systems to help fight piracy when all they end up doing is ruining it for the people who want to buy DVDs.

    One thing that I have wondered about for a while is how many DVD rips online originate from retail DVDs? I would have thought the majority (if not all) came from pre-release copies as the DVD rips are normally several weeks (if not months) ahead of a retail DVD release.
  • by ConfusedSelfHating (1000521) on Sunday April 15 2007, @04:54PM (#18744427)

    This copy protection prevents most people from renting/borrowing a DVD and making a copy of it. Until people download the latest software for cracking it. This is mostly targetting non-technical people who were given DVD Shrink by a friend.

    There will be copies of the DVD available on the Internet, because someone will crack the protection. All it takes is one copy on the Internet to ensure that anyone on a peer to peer network can get a copy.

    Sony is risking alienating a large number of people to stop a small number of pirates. Not just a small number of pirates, but the non-technical pirates. They are also annoying Walmart, Blockbuster, BestBuy and any other retailer who sells their DVDs. Who are the consumers going to complain to? The retailers.

    Oddly, this could cost them money even if you ignore retail backlash. Companies which rent DVDs to the consumer, purchase DVDs based on rental demand. If someone rents and burns a DVD, the movie company is pissed, but it still increases rental demand. Higher rental demand, increases sales of the DVDs to the companies who rent them. If someone finds they can't rent and burn, they probably will just download the image from BitTorrent rather than buy the DVD. Not to mention the people who can't play the Sony DVDs, they'll want a free version which actually works.

    Sony has the right to put any copy protection scheme they want on their DVDs, as long as it maintains compatibility. If you sell someone a product which is designed not to work properly on their DVD player, you better tell them first. Even if the consumer was willing to get firmware updates, do you think the manufacturers want to start sending out discs and supporting consumers through the update?

  • Just boicott Sony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by viking80 (697716) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:02PM (#18744471) Journal
    Sony Electronics was a great company until the bought the movies division.

    Now, Sony Electronics tries to deliver great products, and Sony Pictures strongarm the electronics division into delivering defective products.

    Just stop buying Sony altogether (Movies and electronics) until they become a customer focussed company again.

    In the end the blame goes to the stupid Sony customers that allows Sony to sell them this defective crap, and then comes back for more.
    • by arrianus (740942) on Sunday April 15 2007, @09:06PM (#18746259)
      Sony Electronics has gone down the tubes in the past decade or so (it started a while before that -- old school Sony TVs and CRTs had a full metal Faraday cage around the tube, and touches like that went sometime before then). Nowadays, Sony electronics is mostly living off of the reputation it developed up through the 80s or 90s, when it delivered truly exceptional quality products at a high premium. Sony still charges a premium (albeit a smaller one), while delivering mostly sub-par products.

      The Sony laptops are light and attractive, but almost universally have mechanical problems (hinges and latches break). The MP3 players are a disaster. A relative bought one, and it wouldn't play MP3s -- he had to convert music into Sony's proprietary atrak format before it worked. He returned it and bought an iRiver. The headphones give reasonable (but not exceptional) audio quality for the price, but generally break after about 3 months of use. Cameras have nice imagers, mechanically filmy (but not horrible), but as with most Sony, try to force you into a proprietary, incompatible, overpriced technology stack with MemoryStick. PS3 was an unqualified disaster. Home audio equipment is okay, but suboptimal on the price/performance curve (e.g. Kenwood generally has better-sounding, better-quality equipment for the same price in my price range).

      I also really, really, really hate the attempted "synergy." If you want the PS3, you need to pay for Blu-ray. Everything you buy will use MemoryStick, and where possible, use proprietary cables, plugs, and formats to try to lock you in to buy other Sony products, and not work well with non-Sony products.
  • by AnalogDiehard (199128) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:03PM (#18744479)
    We Do Not Intend To Fix It

    Fair enough, we do not intend to support your arrogance. Welcome to our blacklist.

  • ARCCOS (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:09PM (#18744525)
    These discs feature Sony's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARccOS_Protection [wikipedia.org] ARCCOS, which doesn't work with some DVD players and cannot be ripped by any program under Linux.
    • Re:ARCCOS (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kjella (173770) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:14PM (#18745025) Homepage
      You got to love how it comes full circle - disks with corrupt sectors? This reminds me of some floppy protection schemes from the 1980s. Also how the page lists half a dozen tools that'll get around it. If there's one thing worse than DRM, it's when they try to "fix" a broken system by making non-standard discs which break normal players while the patching tools get updated to work around it. Same thing with the "CDs" which don't play in CD players. The cat is out of the bag. The horse has left the barn. The genie is out of the bottle. The referee has blown the whistle. The fat lady has sung. He's dead, Jim. You're flogging a dead horse. Are there any more ways to say it? It's OVER. Get some therapy for your denial issues and let it be.
  • by theeddie55 (982783) on Sunday April 15 2007, @05:45PM (#18744819)
    Ive got casino royale and having read this decided to try it on all the dvd players in my house (i live in a student house of computer scientists and engineers) so having tried it on going on for a dozen different players, the only player ive found that wont play it is a... guess which manufacturer (for those who dont want to play, its sony)
  • by ween14 (827520) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:36PM (#18745211)
    I love this quote right at the top of the entry about Sony:

    they have in fact made their latest releases unplayable on some DVD players, including my Sony DVP-CX995V DVD player.
    I don't think we even need another sign of the incompetence of Sony then the fact that they break their own hardware with their ill-conceived protection mechanisms. Obviously Sony divisions no longer talk to one another about what they are doing. This is a shame considering that communication between units was how Sony invented one of their most profitable items ever...the Walkman.

    left hand: make decent hardware...Profit!
    right hand: break hardware made by left hand...don't tell left hand about it....Profit?
      • Re:Xine (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Lord Apathy (584315) on Sunday April 15 2007, @06:29PM (#18745157)

        Did you report the dvd's as defective? It should be plan that if they do not play in a stand alone dvd when all other dvds to that they are defective. When you rent/buy these disk and they do not work simply return them as defective. Once walmart gets a stack of these fucker a mile high they will smack down sony nice and good.

        As evil as walmart is sometimes being the 10,000 pound gorilla does have it's uses.