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MPAA Committed To Fair Use and DRM

Posted by kdawson on Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:52 AM
from the crack-in-the-wall dept.
Doctor Jay writes "At a LexisNexis Conference on DRM this week, MPAA's Dan Glickman announced that the MPAA was fine with consumers ripping DVDs for portable video players and home media servers. 'In his speech to industry insiders at the posh Beverly Hills Four Seasons hotel, Glickman repeatedly stressed that DRM must be made to work without constricting consumers. The goal, he said, was "to make things simpler for the consumer," and he added that the movie studios were open to "a technology summit" featuring academics, IT companies, and content producers to work on the issues involved.'"
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:53AM (#18885871)
    You wouldn't be allowed to make a banana split, and you'd only be able to eat a slice banana with Kelloggs brand cereals.
    • by Hemogoblin (982564) on Thursday April 26 2007, @12:05PM (#18887111)
      No, no, its more like a car that... ah, sod it.
        • Re:Fair use (Score:5, Interesting)

          by voice_of_all_reason (926702) on Thursday April 26 2007, @12:59PM (#18888013)
          Not our problem.

          What money did Da Vinci need to raise in order to create the Mona Lisa? Who funded the statue-carvers of Easter Island? How much of an advance did JK Rowling get in order to start Harry Potter (hint: zero).

          Creative works made with only profit as a motive are not culturally fundamental. We'll live without them.
          • Re:Fair use (Score:4, Informative)

            by Knuckles (8964) <knuckles@nOsPam.dantian.org> on Thursday April 26 2007, @03:04PM (#18890185)
            What money did Da Vinci need to raise in order to create the Mona Lisa

            Bad, BAD example. He was supported by a long string of aristocrats, and many of his works were commissioned. He maintained a whole workshop.
            • Re:Fair use (Score:4, Insightful)

              by beckerist (985855) on Thursday April 26 2007, @02:13PM (#18889331) Homepage
              When art is driven strictly by monetary gain, you end up with crap like "alliwantforxmasisapsp.com" and Metallica. The point of the grandparent isn't that it's BAD to pursue art for money, it's that if that were the sole purpose of creating the art then who needs art? It'd be preposterous to say that J.K. Rowling didn't continue to write the books for the money. Of course she did (and who wouldn't?) It's just not what drove her to create art in the first place and isn't what drives the majority of ANY art.

              and you, AC about 3 people up...my guess is you're either very uninformed about economics or you work for the MPAA (which isn't necessarily mutually exclusive.)
  • by faedle (114018) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:55AM (#18885889) Homepage Journal
    It's a shame that Sony's use of copy protection (that breaks even playback on standard licensed DVD players) means that at least one significant MPAA member disagrees... .. not to mention the recent actions against YouTube.
    • Wait. What actions against YouTube are inconsistent with supporting fair use to the extent that the blurb (I didn't RTFA, and neither should you) discusses?
    • by MightyYar (622222) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:11AM (#18886171)
      They don't know what the hell they are even talking about. Some salesman who is much better with people than I am has apparently told them that everything can be inter-operable AND have DRM. I have a feeling that this salesman works for MacroVision, and his absurd plan involves getting MacroVision installed on every device that a consumer would ever want to use.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Sony recalled the discs that recently came out and would not play on standard licensed players. Google around, you'll find the news.
    • by transporter_ii (986545) on Thursday April 26 2007, @01:08PM (#18888145) Homepage
      When a friend let me borrow a copy of Casino Royale and it wouldn't play on two different DVD players, I pulled out the DVD case liner notes looking for info on what I thought was obviously some new type of copy protection gone awry. Wrong. When I opened the liner, a subpoena to show up in court on a copyright-violation charge fell out, along with an offer to settle out of court for $3000.00 and a "no-postage necessary" envelope addressed to the MPAA.

      3000.00 down the drain. But not having to sit through Casino Royale ... priceless.

      Transporter_ii
  • by Kadin2048 (468275) <slashdot@kadin.xoxy@net> on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:57AM (#18885945) Homepage Journal
    So, this means that he supports a removal of the onerous, no-Fair-Use, anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA?

    What's that, Mr Glickman? That's not what you meant at all?

    Oh, okay -- you support Fair Use, sort of, but only in some theoretical sense, because it's illegal to actually do, because of the laws you've purchased from those politicians who are perennially deep-throating the entertainment industry's collective cock?

    Talk is cheap; I'm not buying.
      • Well, when you're talking about a whore, it's hard to get around identifying him as such. I mean, how to do have a conversation about Congress and NOT discuss the penises in their mouths or the cash in their wallets?
  • Oh Really? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rudy_wayne (414635) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:58AM (#18885957)
    "MPAA's Dan Glickman announced that the MPAA was fine with consumers ripping DVDs for portable video players and home media servers."

    Really? In order to rip DVDs you must use software that by-passes the DVD copy protection. That is a violation of the DMCA -- a law that was pushed thru by the MPAA -- and anyone who has attempted to sell this sort of software (DVD Xcopy, etc) has been sued into oblivion by the MPAA.

    • Re:Oh Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by qbwiz (87077) * <john@ba u m a n f a m ily.com> on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:13AM (#18886217) Homepage
      No, that's the point. They want to add DRM to portable video players and home media servers, and they want to release software that respects adds that DRM when ripping. If they are the ones that license the DRM-full ripping software, then using that software to rip into those devices would be ok.

      As there isn't a unified DRM standard, they can't release that software yet, but if there some day will be, then they some day will release that software.
      • As there isn't a unified DRM standard, they can't release that software yet, but if there some day will be, then they some day will release that software.

        The universally accepted and demanded DRM scheme is a lack of digital restrictions. That's the standard they will use if they really mean what they say about fair use. There is nothing simple about them forcing restrictions on the industry and their customers and ultimately any restrictions limit your fair use rights by limiting what players you can u

      • Re:Oh Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by GreyPoopon (411036) <gpoopon@gmail. c o m> on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:25AM (#18886441)

        If they are the ones that license the DRM-full ripping software, then using that software to rip into those devices would be ok.

        More interestingly, some of his comments lead me to believe they want to provide "legal" ripping as a service because he starts talking about establishing prices, etc. I would have to say that the MPAA still doesn't get it, but they are just now beginning to realize that they will start losing their market if they don't clean up their act. This response is akin to Microsoft's response to the EU. "Let's see how little we can get away with, and delay as long as we possibly can."
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I've been looking for a place to ask this lately...
            Given what this guy is saying (the MPAA drone), what is the legality of ripping Netflix movies because you "don't have time to watch them right away"?

            This is, of course, a completely hypothetical question...
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            That's an easy question, and has nothing to do with the DMCA. Copyright law as it stands has never allowed you to make copies of a protected work in your possession just to keep around.

            Drop the word "protected" or replace it with "copyrighted". And it has long been legal before the DMCA to make a copy of a work in your permanent possession, such as making a single archive copy for backup purposes. It was even legal to remove copy protections in order to achieve functional copies. (See "Copy ][ Plus" and

    • No, you're not thinking like an MPAA executive.

      "Ripping DVDs for portable video players and home media servers" should be translated as: "Ripping DVDs to files with 'interoperable DRM', which can be played on a single system after connecting to the internet and getting an authorization code. The authorization code will cost $4.95 if you can somehow prove you're the original owner of the DVD. If you can't prove you're the original owner then we'll assume you borrowed it from somebody and the authorization co
    • by geekoid (135745) <dadinportlandNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday April 26 2007, @12:55PM (#18887945) Homepage Journal
      `(c) OTHER RIGHTS, ETC., NOT AFFECTED- (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.

      While companies are abusing it, it really does allow for fair use circumvention.

      then this:

                                (1) CIRCUMVENTION PERMITTED- Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), it is not a violation of that subsection for a person to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title, if--

                                          `(A) the technological measure, or the work it protects, contains the capability of collecting or disseminating personally identifying information reflecting the online activities of a natural person who seeks to gain access to the work protected;

                                          `(B) in the normal course of its operation, the technological measure, or the work it protects, collects or disseminates personally identifying information about the person who seeks to gain access to the work protected, without providing conspicuous notice of such collection or dissemination to such person, and without providing such person with the capability to prevent or restrict such collection or dissemination;

                                          `(C) the act of circumvention has the sole effect of identifying and disabling the capability described in subparagraph (A), and has no other effect on the ability of any person to gain access to any work; and

                                          `(D) the act of circumvention is carried out solely for the purpose of preventing the collection or dissemination of personally identifying information about a natural person who seeks to gain access to the work protected, and is not in violation of any other law.

      So, for example, When MS embedded information gathering into their file, they were no longer protected by anti-circumvention.

      And if the copyright holder gives you permission to circumvent.

      The problems with the DMCA are:
      a) more subtle then most people relize
      b) abused by companies
      c) To open ended.

  • by Daishiman (698845) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:58AM (#18885969)
    DRM and Fair Use are mutually incompatible terms.
    • DRM and Fair Use are mutually incompatible terms.

      I'm sure the MPAA understand that just fine. That's why Dan Glickman is happy to come out in support of Fair Use, knowing full well that it's been made impossible to implement it without breaking the law thanks to DMCA & DRM.

      What they're counting on is that the audience don't understand that the two are mutually exclusive. That way to the ignorant listener the MPAA is fighting those evil pirates to protect us consumers from their evil ways. Cue applause and shouts of "God bless you Dan Glickman!" etc.

      • by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Thursday April 26 2007, @12:47PM (#18887797) Homepage
        Because any otherwise infringing use is a fair use given the right circumstances, but the same use, under different circumstances, might not be fair. Courts have a tough time with this, there are frequent reversals, and shifts in the law over time. No mere DRM machine can permit all fair uses while not permitting infringing uses.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Not necessarily. I would be totally cool if (with the purchase of my DVD) it came with software to rip it in a format that suits my DRM enabled media player best. This means that only I can use it, I can't use it to distribute to the whole world. I'm totally fine with that because it fits in with the idea of Fair Use (because I still get to use it the way I want) and they still 'feel' better that it has some form of DRM on it. That's a win-win to me.

        ...that is, until you have some player or device that isn

  • by simm1701 (835424) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:59AM (#18885981)
    Ok so they want to:

    "to make things simpler for the consumer"

    and they feel that

    "DRM must be made to work without constricting consumers"

    Isn't the point of DRM to constrict customers? The only way not to do so is to not have DRM.

    Since its well known that DRM does not prevent piracy then the only purpose DRM can possibly have is restricting customers.

    For those in the RIAA that failed logic 101 then you can not constrict customers if and only if you do not have DRM

    I wouldn't give good odds on them getting this through their skulls any time soon....
    • Isn't the point of DRM to constrict customers? The only way not to do so is to not have DRM.

      Since its well known that DRM does not prevent piracy then the only purpose DRM can possibly have is restricting customers.

      The point of the purest concept of DRM is, "To constrict users to their legal uses."

      Admittedly, every implementation so far has been a poor one, overstepping from constricting to legal rights in to outright diminishing those rights. But just because every implementation so far has been bad, that doesn't mean the core concept is exclusively bad.

      Take moulds. Prior to the 1920s, most people would have said, "It is well known mould does nothing for us. The only purpose mould can possibly have is making us sick

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Admittedly, every implementation so far has been a poor one, overstepping from constricting to legal rights in to outright diminishing those rights. But just because every implementation so far has been bad, that doesn't mean the core concept is exclusively bad.

        No, it doesn't follow logically, but the core concept behind DRM *is* bad. DRM is just encryption. In encryption, you want to get a message from A to B without C reading it. In DRM B and C are the same person. DRM is fundamentally flawed technolo
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      "DRM must be made to work without constricting consumers"

      Isn't the point of DRM to constrict customers? The only way not to do so is to not have DRM.


      Technically correct. But this is the MPAA and they've got an answer to everything.

      In this case, their answer is for every fair-use they consider "reasonable", they'll license a product which can do it. Such as a licensed DVD-ripping box which allows you to rip your DVDs but stores the movies in some encrypted form so you can watch them fine but copying them b
  • Easier? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shoolz (752000) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:00AM (#18885991) Homepage
    Exactly how is DRM intended to "to make things simpler for the consumer", when the very purpose of DRM is to prevent the consumer from doing things he/she paid good money to be allowed to do?
  • by dteichman2 (841599) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:01AM (#18886001) Homepage
    To set up a DRM system that allows a copy of the protected media to be displayed anywhere, but still protected, you'd need a unified media platform at the hardware level. It's not only insane, it's scary. It's like Trusted Computing, but with everything: TVs, portable devices, media servers, etc.

    This would be the END of fair use.

    "Sure, you can make a copy of that movie, but with these restrictions and only on these devices."

    I'd sooner stick with the current system of breakable DRM ;)
  • DRM & Consumers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Paulrothrock (685079) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:01AM (#18886011) Homepage Journal

    The problem with DRM is that you're trying to limit access to the very same people who are trying to buy access to the media. DRM will not work if the methods for acquiring or viewing this media are not easy. Right now, it's easier for me to fly BT Airways to watch unedited, newly released episodes of Dr. Who or Torchwood in a timely manner than it is for me to obtain them through legal means. I would buy the content if I could, but I can't, so I'm a criminal for being a fan of a show. And I'm sure Australian fans of Battlestar Galactica or Heroes feel the same way. The only reason we're unable to watch legitimate versions of our favorite shows is because of outdated licensing agreements.

    So make the content easy to get no matter where in the world the viewer happens to be, and make it easy to view on any device, and you won't need DRM. People want things to be convenient, and they'll only pay for it if it's convenient. People will always steal content, with or without DRM. So the best way to ensure you get paying customers isn't to make DRM easier, but to eliminate it and make paying for the content easier. Most people don't want to be crooks.

    • Be careful! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by twitter (104583) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:28AM (#18886511) Homepage Journal

      People will always steal content, with or without DRM.

      Making a copy of something is not "stealing".

      Of course, I agree with everything you say about eliminating digital restrictions and how that's what the industry really needs to do. Thanks for the down under perspective of licensing issues.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        "Making a copy of something is not "stealing"."

        Of course it isn't but realize what the results of making that statement are.

        Customer: I didn't steal that movie, I copied it for/from a friend. Copying isn't stealing.
        MPAA: Right. Copyright violation. Now we can sue for $100,000 for each time you copied it.
        Customer: But isn't the movie only worth $20?
        MPAA: Sure. But you said you didn't steal it, right? So it's a copyright violation.
        • One of my many fans [slashdot.org] misses the point, as usual:

          making a copy of something and selling 50,000 copies of it (or putting it on a P2P network for 5 million people to download) is a crime.

          Selling 50,000 coppies of someone else's work is civil not a criminal violation. The neither the person's work or reputation is destroyed by your actions, nor is the public harmed. You may have cost the author money and they can sue you for it, but this is not a crime.

          Sharing something is even less of a crime. Only publ

  • by debest (471937) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:03AM (#18886049)
    Unless there has been a tremendous upheaval and changes within the MPAA that we haven't heard about, there is *no way* that they genuinely want this. It is obvious that the media industry's desire is for control of the consumers' viewing and listening habits, and permitting "fair use" in the manner described is not what they have in mind. All evidence of their actions for the past 20 years or more points to the contrary.

    I think that this is just a feel-good press release statement to publicly demonstrate that they are the good guys, but in the end they will act in their own best interests, not their customers'.
  • by Applekid (993327) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:04AM (#18886061)
    So, who picked this guy to be the successor to Jack Valenti who once famously said: "If you need a backup copy of a DVD you can go out and buy another one." Was it Valenti who choose/endorse the succesor, or did the board vote him in?

    So back then the voice of the MPAA was just blowing smoke?
  • How can the same guy that want to intentionally encrypt these movies talk about intentions to make things simple for the customer? :-S
  • and statements like glickman's cheapen it even further every day
  • by psmears (629712) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:07AM (#18886107)
    The KKK announced their commitment to Civil Rights and lynchings...
  • Similarly, I am deeply committed to both virginity and fucking my brains out. Woot!
  • by eboot (697478) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:15AM (#18886259)
    Basically they have invented a sort of physical key and lock device that will be sold with all future content. Each DVD will come with a Dual Immutable Content Kernal that you will have to place inside a peripheral that attaches to your DVD/Blu Ray/ HD DVD player. The peripheral is call the Asynchronous Security System and is a revolutionary device. Trust me, this is the future of DRM, where everytime you watch a movie you will have to put their D.I.C.K inside your A.S.S.
  • IANAL, but doesn't a public announcement of your position kind of make it hard for you to sue someone who acts in accordance with it? Estoppel, or something like that? I mean, it would seem that he just gave explicit permission for citizens to use DeCSS and similar tools in order to format-shift their purchases.

    • I was wondering about that.

      Then again, this guy does not represent the govt... Perhaps he is only stating that the RIAA won't prosecute in civil courts [since they've already gotten the federal laws on their side]?

      On an related note, it didn't matter that the airlines ticket counter representative said it would be okay for me to carry my luggage on the plane. TSA thought it was too big and forced me to check it in. By the book, I think TSA trumps airline employees. Is digital content any different?
  • The article title should read "MPAA (and spokesman Dan Glickman) should ***BE COMMITED*** "

  • The MPAA does recognize that progress on DRM needs to be made soon, or impatient consumers will increasingly turn to unauthorized sources for content.(emphasis mine)

    Unlike Jack Valenti, this guy seems to see the writing on the wall.

    I buy DVDs because I like the high quality, and trust the techs hired to transfer the film to disc much better than I trust myself to burn a copy of a DVD. I have burned copies of DVDs that were not available for purchase. I have bought "bootleg" DVDs but not in any great num

  • I guess he's fine with consumers NOT being able to rip DVDs for personal use, too.
  • ...they recognize that consumers should be able to use legitimate video material on any item in the house, including home networks.
    I guess the pretty pink DRM unicorns will be carrying all this content around and will determine if any device is actually mine or someone else's.
  • The problem is that what the movie companies would be happy with people doing is what maybe 50% of the people want to do. The rest want to share with the world and ensure a single copy of a DVD is sold, period.

    You see, to enable format-shifting you need to be able to access the digital content in an unrestricted manner. So that means you can make it into a different format, upload it and share it with the world.

    What the movie companies wouldn't mind is if you took the movie in some manner that it could no