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Small Webcasters Offered a Rate Break, Reject It

Posted by kdawson on Tue May 22, 2007 09:05 PM
from the hoping-for-a-better-deal-from-Congress dept.
Pontifex minimus writes "Music royalty collection group SoundExchange has offered an olive branch to small webcasters. They are willing to delay the exorbitant new rates set by the Copyright Royalty Board until 2010 for small webcasters in hopes that they can keep Congress from passing the Internet Radio Equality Act. Larger outfits, like Live365 and Pandora would not be affected and would have to pay the new rates. '"Although the rates revised by the CRB are fair and based on the value of music in the marketplace, there's a sense in the music community and in Congress that small webcasters need more time to develop their businesses," said John Simson, executive director of SoundExchange.' SaveNetRadio rejected SoundExchange's offer, saying that it 'throws large webcasters under the bus.'"
+ -
story

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[+] New Royalty Rates Could Kill Internet Radio 273 comments
FlatCatInASlatVat writes "Kurt Hanson's Radio Internet Newsletter has an analysis of the new royalty rates for Internet Radio announced by the US Copyright Office. The decision is likely to put most internet radio stations out of business by making the cost of broadcasting much higher than revenues. From the article: 'The Copyright Royalty Board is rejecting all of the arguments made by Webcasters and instead adopting the "per play" rate proposal put forth by SoundExchange (a digital music fee collection body created by the RIAA)...[The] math suggests that the royalty rate decision — for the performance alone, not even including composers' royalties! — is in the in the ballpark of 100% or more of total revenues.'"
[+] Technology: A Reprieve For Net Radio? 115 comments
Porsupah writes "The Register reports that "Rep. Jay Inslee (D-WA) and Rep. Don Manzullo (R-IL) have headed the 'Internet Radio Equality Act,' which aims to stop the controversial March 2 decision which puts royalty of a .08 cent per song per listener, retroactively from 2006 to 2010 on internet radio," as imposed by a recent decision from the Copyright Royalty Board. "If passed, today's bill would set new rates at 7.5 percent of the webcaster's revenue — the same rate paid by satellite radio.""
[+] Technology: Internet Radio Will Go Silent on June 26th 250 comments
Spamicles writes "Thousands of U.S. webcasters plan to turn off the music and go silent this Tuesday, June 26th, to draw attention to an impending royalty rate increase that, if implemented, would lead to the virtual shutdown of this country's Internet radio industry. In March, the Copyright Royalty Board announced that it would raise royalties for Internet broadcasters, moving them from a per-song rate to a per-listener rate. The increase would be made retroactive to the beginning of 2006 and would double over the next five years. Internet radio sites would be charged per performance of a song. A "performance" is defined as the streaming of one song to one listener; thus a station that has an average audience of 500 listeners racks up 500 "performances" for each song it plays."
[+] Technology: A Reprieve for Internet Radio 108 comments
westlake writes "In the wake of Internet Radio's Day of Silence, SoundExchange has proposed a temporary $2500 cap on advance payments 'per channel/per station.' The Digital Music Association responded immediately in its own press release that it would agree to this, but only if the term for the new arrangement were extended to 2010 — or, preferably, forever. On another front, SoundExchange seems aware in its PR that it will have to concede something more to the non-profit webcaster, if it is to avoid Congressional action."
[+] Your Rights Online: U.S. Court Denies Webcasters' Stay Petition 264 comments
Michael Manoochehri writes "Reuters reports that a "federal appeals court has denied a petition by U.S. Internet radio stations seeking to delay a royalty rate hike due July 15 they say could kill the fledgling industry." This royalty rate hike, put forth by the US Copyright Royalty Board, will increase royalty rates for webcast music tremendously, in some cases to more per year than many webcasters bring in from revenue. Save Net Radio, a coalition of webcasters, is telling listeners that "We are appealing to the millions of Internet radio listeners out there, the webcasters they support and the artists and labels we treasure to rise up and make your voices heard again before this vibrant medium is silenced.""
[+] Webcasters Call Bunk on SoundExchange DRM Ploy 109 comments
RadioFan writes "The settlement between webcasters and SoundExchange is starting to come apart at the seams, because everyone is realizing that SoundExchange wants to force DRM on Net Radio. DiMA, one of the largest Net Radio lobbyists, has fired back at Sound Exchange, calling them out for leveraging high royalty fees to push through DRM requirements that they failed to obtain in Congress via broadcast flag and anti-recording legislation. Was this whole thing a ruse to get DRM on net radio?"
[+] Politics: Internet Radio's 'Second Chance' Bogging Down in House 105 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Wired is reporting that the Internet Radio Equality Act is failing fast in the House, with negotiations breaking down over fair pricing for internet radio broadcasters. 'A legislative setback could make it harder to dislodge the new fees, which took effect last month after a federal appeals court refused to postpone the payment deadline. With the threat of congressional backlash fading, SoundExchange could find little incentive to budge from its current position ... SoundExchange has already proposed changes that could relieve small and custom-streaming sites from charges they could not possibly afford to pay, at least in the short term. Many expect a small-webcaster deal to be done by early September, when Congress goes back into session. But the deal on the table hasn't changed since SoundExchange extended an offer in May to charge them 10 percent of gross revenue under $250,000, or 12 percent of gross revenues over $250,000, with a revenue cap at $1.25 million.'" All very cushy for SoundExchange. Wired also points out that this is the same organization illegally lobbying for terrestrial radio royalties through 'third party' shell groups.
[+] A Commonsense Proposal On Net Radio Rates 94 comments
quark235 tips us to an open letter to the RIAA, proposing a fairer royalty structure for Net radio, written by Paul A. Gathard. Gathard is president of Barnabus Road Media, a company that provides streaming radio services to commercial and non-commercial stations across the US. He contends that his proposed rate structure, if implemented, would actually result in higher total revenues to SoundExchange than their current proposal would, after it kills off 90% of Net radio stations.
[+] SoundExchange Backs Off DRM for Webcasters 63 comments
Radio Free Europe writes "The big news is not that SoundExchange has repackaged the same royalty proposal that small webcasters rejected in May, but that SoundExchange has dropped its previous insistence that DRM be a part of any agreement. 'On the bright side, it doesn't appear as if DRM is part of the terms this time around. Previously, SoundExchange stated that webcasters who agree to the deal must actively "work to stop users from engaging in 'streamripping'." This began a war of words between the Digital Media Association (DiMA) and SoundExchange, with DiMA accusing SoundExchange of using rate negotiations to push mandatory DRM. SoundExchange's letter leaves the much-maligned streamripping issue out of the discussion, clearing at least that hurdle.'"
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    • You don't think they have the best intersts of the small guy in mind? I thought that all the big corp's had a softspot in their heart for the little guys. I also think that the sky is a beautiful shade of green.
    • Seriously - they want to charge Radio stations for royalties? great, let them. They want to price Internet radio into oblivion? Great, let them. Radio, whatever the transmission medium, is advertisement. Both for the ads in between the music, as well as for the music itself. The knock-on effect effect of these moves will be disastrous for the music industry in the longer term. They will get what they deserve - music sales will be further down, and the RIAA crpwd will be looking for a new job. Like, how to charge people for the air they breathe
  • they know (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wizardforce (1005805) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @09:21PM (#19231321) Journal
    they know it is really bad for internet radio and this is nothing more than a smoke screen- to convince some people that they are actually trying to be fair which is absolute nonsense. if they wanted to be fair they wouldnt have done this to internet radio or started this garbage against "radio" radio either. now lets hope that they actually destroy themselves in the attempt.
    • Even worse, this article doesn't mention if the retroactive rates still apply to the original date, making the delay pointless. So who knows, the delay may be a trick.
    • by twitter (104583) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @11:22PM (#19232081) Homepage Journal

      Sound Exchange will also forbid free and lower cost competition, regardless of artist and publisher intention [slashdot.org]. They will collect their little fees from everyone, in violation of Creative Commons terms. Those who want their royalties will have to join them, which makes it look like they have the artist's endorsement. Then they will have to trust Sound Exchange to give them what was really collected, less fees. In other words, the RIAA monopoly on music distribution will be extended into the future against the will of artists and the public. There is no technical justification for this, it's pure corruption.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        The statutory license does not exclude directly negotiated licensing deals as I understand it. No one can forbid direct licensing deals--the right to engage in these kinds of agreements cannot be circumvented by Congress or anyone else. In other words services are free to use Creative Commons licensed material or material under any other license or agreement. If a service exclusively uses such material, it certainly seems that they would be exempt from SoundExchange fees and reporting. If only some of their

      • by zippthorne (748122) on Wednesday May 23 2007, @01:43AM (#19232761) Journal
        "Then they will have to trust Sound Exchange to give them what was really collected, less fees"

        Ok, that's really a raw deal. If SE can just start collecing fees on their behalf without the artists consent, and thereby force the artist's consent, they don't really have a right to the fees. (moral right, i mean, legal rights are screwy)

        If the artists are getting fees subtracted, they're already getting screwed, blatantly. In addition to the unspoken usurpation issue.

        I mean, imagine this conversation with a coworker,
        "Oh, hey, I picked up your paycheck for you."
        "Um.. thanks..That explains why it wasn't there when I went to pick it up."
        "No problem. Here's what's left after my 'picking up fee'"
    • by Simonetta (207550) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @11:43PM (#19232185)
      This is a case of scorpion and frog. You know, the scorpion needed to cross the river. He asks the frog to carry him. Frog says no, 'cause you'll kill me. Scorpion says 'why would I do that? I'd drown. Let's be friends. Frog gets halfway across, scorpion stings him. As they both die, frog asks why. Scorpion says 'because I'm a scorpion, this is what I do'.

          The global music media corporations know that all the fighting new technology and RIAA extortion is not in their best interest. But they can't help it. It's what they do. They're on auto-pilot self-destruct. They're smart guys, they know this. They just can't do anything about it.

            Their entire perspective is based on the not-unrealistic assumption that they are the focal point of the best music in the world. The best groups, the most talented artists have and will continue to come to them in order to distribute the recordings. They don't believe that anyone interested in a musical career would not come to them, on their terms. That's the key to their entire 'take it or leave it' approach. Because they honestly believe that no one will leave it.

            What may happen is a transformation of media from a centralized distribution to a scattered and disorganized collection of xenophobic subcultures who aren't interested in sharing their music or media works. Should this happen, the media corporations most likely won't notice it. They sell primarily to young people and the percentage of people who are young is rapidly growing. So their market is growing. The fact that their sales of CDs are stagnant is truly amazing. Most likely, it's not true.

            I encourage people to gradually disassociate themselves from the products of the global media corporations. Yes, it is true that you will miss great music. You will suffer the occasional social embarrassment of not knowing (actually not knowing, not pretending to not know) who the latest stars are. I'm not going to claim that it's worth it or a self-righteous thing to do. I'm just suggesting, all the celebrity media, let it slide away. There are other things more important. Concentrate on them instead.
  • Translation (Score:5, Funny)

    by rlp (11898) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @09:38PM (#19231445)
    "Nice Internet radio station ya got here. Maybe we'll take a smaller cut from youse ... to start with. Right, Rocko?"
    • you misspelled "extortion."
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I was thinking of modding you Insightful, but I think +5 Funny is appropriate enough.

      Insightful, because you hit the nail right on the head. The small Internet broadcasters aren't going to take a deal that would make it uneconomical for them to grow bigger later on. The prospect of just scraping by with no hope of future growth is not a good deal for them.

      This sounds very much like the mafia letting someone get into the business on the condition that they don't move into bigger territory later on.
  • by joe_adk (589355) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @09:43PM (#19231479) Homepage
    This is probably a stupid suggestion for many reasons but:

    What if, in order to release a single, studios (et al) had to give up broadcast rights to that song. Anyone who obtains a legitimate copy of the song can broadcast it whenever and however he/she likes, be that internet, radio or birthday party. The label/artist/whomever still controls all rights to sell/distribute the song, and the rest of the songs on the album that aren't marked as singles.
    I know this clashes with the "make money from every angle" that the industry wants, but it seems like a reasonable trade (to me).
    • Sounds great for people who buy singles, but why in the heck would the companies ever want to do that? It's not like it helps them the established companies in any way. Half of the problem with these new regulations is that they try to force all music to obey one set of guidelines, regardless the people who make the music. On the other hand, this might be a good way for up and coming labels to establish themselves and encourage wider distribution. But either way, this sort of thing certainly shouldn't b
  • Or I would suggest simply boycotting these idiotic record industry people. But of course, the little guys need to put food on the table for their families, so this makes this non workable.
    • by damista (1020989) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:29PM (#19231779)
      Sorry but I don't go out and buy music, so somebody else has food on the table. If I buy something then I do that with my own interest in mind and nobody elses (unless it is charitable). If the music industry wants me to buy their stuff, then they should stop selling CDs with root kits, CDs that don't work in half the players, music files that will only run on one platform and they should stop telling me that I am a potential criminal because I am asking for these things. Until they do, they won't see a cent from me and I used to spend a grand or more a year on CDs. If me not buying music means that somebody will starve, then so be it.

      Sorry that may sound harsh but that's how it is. If my employer goes bust because nobody wants our services anymore, then I lose my job. Do you think there's people out there who say: "Let's go to these guys, cos their employees starve"? Not buying their products is the only way we can fight back and stand up for our rights.
  • by razpones (1077227) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:01PM (#19231597) Journal
    I mean there is music that is independent from corporations, is there a restriction to this music, like a tax or something that anyone has to pay to transmit either on the air or on line?, also what about music made in other countries that is not bought by American corporations?, this should be the way to do radio, just skip the music that is owned by the conglomerates and go to the source, the artists. Most bands are lame anyway, and even thought i do like some dj's and some hiphop i would give it up. I had hoped to put my own internet radio station but since i started hearing all this issues it made me wait and see what comes out of it, then i thought about air waves radio (ala pirate), but that is pretty hairy, so i think the way to go is find good free music and use that, with the consent of the artists i imagine.
    • by MP3Chuck (652277) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:45PM (#19231873) Homepage Journal
      I was going to write something up, but this comment [slashdot.org] on a previous discussion [slashdot.org] regarding SoundExchange seems accurate.
      • by i1984 (530580) on Wednesday May 23 2007, @02:46AM (#19233083)
        So what we need is a largely automatic system for generating direct, explicit, licenses between artists and broadcasters (aka Internet radio stations) so that a single artist can form hundreds or thousands of unique relationships with stations without spending years drafting contracts, and vice versa. It can't be an aggregation service in the SoundExchange sense because SoundExchange bans that, so it would have to instead create the documents to generate a direct contract and then facilitate the signing and exchange of those contract documents.

        Maybe it would work by allowing a broadcaster to search the site for artists that are willing to offer their music under certain terms, select those of interest, copy the broadcaster's specific information in to a form pre-filled with the terms, have the broadcaster digitally sign the contract (if I recall correctly Clinton signed a bill making a digital signature legally binding the same way as an old fashioned analog signature is binding) and then submit the contract to the artists who could log in and review the contract and sign it or not...or perhaps digitally sign all of them at once, or all of them with particular terms at once. Then once the contracts were signed a PDF would be generated and given to each party to print out and file.

        There would, of course, also be a mechanism for either party to amend the terms of the boiler plate contract, although doing so would flag the contract as one needing special attention.

        A clever extension of this would allow the artist to upload his/her music to the contract generation site so that as soon as the broadcaster signed the contract it could buy copies of the artists tracks and download them immediately.

        Creative Commons licenses sound good at first, but no actual signed contract explicitly changes hands. The above system would solve that problem without being an aggregator itself; it merely facilitates the two parties reaching an explicit signed agreement.

        Finally the good part: SoundExchange would have to keep track of all of these exceptions to the statutory licensing.
    • what you just said scares the SHIT out of riaa - the idea that bands will wake up to that fact they don't need them anymore due to the digital age.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      You can't go to the "source" anyway, because artists, once they sign up with the record labels, do not have control over their own songs.

      That's how screwed up the system is.
  • by ShooterNeo (555040) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:03PM (#19231607)
    So, if band X is played on an internet radio station, will the royalties from that performance actually GO to that band? Or vanish into the black hole of "soundexchange", with a pittance going to the actual creator of the song?
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      If band X is played on an internet radio station, the radio must pay royalties to SoundExchange. If the owners of the song contact SE and pay them, they might get some of the money from the royalties. Since band X will probably not know about SoundExchange and probably not bother even if they do know, band Xes will probably benefit very very little.

      The good side is that internet radio will be killed off. The MAFIAA tells me that would be a good thing, and they are on the side of artists, so it must be true.
      • the basic idea for this though (i'm not defending them, they charge the artists to get their royalties, wtf? charing money to get money? just take it off the top), that then a distributor can use that music without having to directly contact the bands, the up shot of this is that if some band decides they don't like you they can't actually tell you (though i'm sure a court order would work) that they won't negotiate with you for royalties, you can always go to sound exchange and its still legal, this makes
          • thats my point, the idea of having an independent body that allows for the artist to collect royalties without having to make deals with every single person/company that wants to play, and allow all of the stations/people/etc. that want to play someones music have a simple and effective way to deal with licensing is a good idea, it makes it simpler for both parties, but the way that its being handled makes it appear as a hinderence to both parties since they're strong arming both sides into giving them mone
  • Show me the money... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by helmespc (807573) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:04PM (#19231611)
    Where does the RIAA think the money is going to come from. Its not like web radio is making money hand over fist. Even the best web radio stations are struggling to survive under the current conditions, much less their future ridiculous rates.
    • by Matt Perry (793115) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:59PM (#19231955)

      Where does the RIAA think the money is going to come from. Its not like web radio is making money hand over fist. Even the best web radio stations are struggling to survive under the current conditions, much less their future ridiculous rates.
      It's not about the money, it's about the market. Driving independent radio stations out of business is the entire reason for this mess in the first place. The mainstream music industry is desperately trying to retain control over not only their business model but their methods of marketing and promotion of their musical interests. They pretty much have over-the-air radio marketing only their products; however, online radio provides more choice and allows listeners to explore different genres and artists. Sites like Last.fm and Pandora present even more of a threat because they allow listeners to directly control what they are exposed to and direct their own musical exploration, unlike regular streaming radio which spoon feeds you whatever they have (not that I dislike anything somafm spoonfeeds me). All of this means you're probably going to be listening to music that's not from the major labels, or at least exposed to a lot of independent music. If you buy someone else's product then the big music industry thinks that they've "lost a sale."

      The barrier to entry for recording and publishing music is incredibly low right now. This means that the number of competitors to the big music industry is increasing at a very rapid rate. How does a company, or group of companies, compete when the market they have dominated suddenly has thousands and thousands of competitors with the ability to deliver their product just via the same methods as the big companies? Worse, how do you compete against those who are willing to create products and give them away? Smart companies will see the trend and will ask themselves, "how can I make this work for me?" The big music industry isn't sure how to compete and so they are fighting the trend and lashing out any way they can.
      • Other outfits, like CDBaby, seem quite able to compete... so if the **AA isn't sure what to do about these new market conditions, why not just copy CDBaby and the like?

        A: Because the **AA isn't happy with just a fair cut of the pie. They want the WHOLE pie, and don't want ANYONE else to have a piece.

    • Where does the RIAA think the money is going to come from. Its not like web radio is making money hand over fist. Even the best web radio stations are struggling to survive under the current conditions, much less their future ridiculous rates.

      They don't. They intend instead to kill off independent and small web radio stations, and therefore to maintain their monopoly. This isn't obvious to you?
  • by pjr.cc (760528) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:11PM (#19231659)
    How does SoundExchange force people to pay royalties?

    There was an article some time ago that ALL internet radio stations, regardless of content, had to pay SE on a per-song basis. I really don't understand how they have the power or the right to do something like that?

    For example if I setup a radio station that played only freely-available, royalty-less music. How does SE get away with charging me money to play said music? Is the RIAA that powerful that they can manage to dictate legislation that way? have i missed something obvious?

    What I would be curious to know is, if I wrote a computer program that generated random music (lets ignore the technical feasibility of that and assume its possible) and make a radio station that played that (and only that) could SE force me to pay them royalties? If that is the case, how is that even in the most bizarre parallel universe either fair or just?

    Perhaps even a simpler argument was if i were an artist and ran an internet radio station solely playing my own music, can SE force me to pay them royalties? It just seems really stupid to me...

    • how is that even in the most bizarre parallel universe either fair or just?

      Fairness is for dirty commies; in America, the law comes from capitalism :)

          • "England lost in a war between America and Russia o_O?"
            Yeah, apparently you missed the memo.
            You became our bitches while the Russians exported spies and polonium to you as a waste facility. I'd say you lost :-)

            -nB

            (please be kind I was attempting to be funny, how's your PM became our bitch? rather than the generic "you", better?)

    • by cpt kangarooski (3773) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @11:10PM (#19232015) Homepage
      There are two kinds of distinct creative work involved with music. The first is the music itself, i.e. the arrangement of notes and/or lyrics. The other is a sound recording of a particular performance of that music, e.g. a tape recording. Music has long been copyrightable, and usually this applied to the sheet music. A recording of a musician performing that music wasn't copyrightable in itself. Congress decided to grant copyrights for sound recordings in the 70's. However, they limited that copyright so that it didn't apply to the radio: a radio station was free to play a sound recording over the air, and pay royalties to the songwriter, but not to the performer. This is still the case, in fact. But much more recently, Congress decided to grant a copyright in the sound recording that applied to digital transmissions. This meant that now, unlike for terrestrial radio, things like Internet radio would have to pay a royalty not just to the songwriter, but also to the performer.

      As is the case for music, the royalty is under a statutory license. That is, rather than have everyone suffer the huge headaches and transactional costs of negotiating rights for each piece of music individually, everyone can pay a fee set forth by law and get a license automatically, regardless even of whether the copyright holder agrees. (Because his copyright doesn't apply to people who pay the statutory license; that's how the law is written) Everyone is free to make their own arrangements, but in practice few bother to do so since it is really a huge pain in the ass.

      The Copyright Office was empowered to perform certain administrative tasks related to this, and one thing that was done was to name designated agents to whom the statutory license royalty can be paid so that the payor will be in compliance with the law. Currently, the only one is SoundExchange.

      If you have a separate agreement with the relevant copyright holders, you don't need to pay SoundExchange. If you are playing a recording to which you are the copyright holder, or a recording which is in the public domain, you don't need to pay SoundExchange.

      Is the RIAA that powerful that they can manage to dictate legislation that way?

      Yes. The industries involved in copyright matters have been dictating legislation from the beginning of the 20th century on. This is nothing new.
    • by twitter (104583) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @11:31PM (#19232129) Homepage Journal

      No free alternatives are allowed. [slashdot.org] It is obvious that people would flock away from these fees if they could, so they won't be given the chance. This will be enforced the same way the current ban on terrestrial broadcast is enforced. Because internet broadcasts are not carried over a limited publicly owned spectrum, there is no technical justification for this system, it's purely anti-competitive - designed to perpetuate the RIAA member companies into the future when they would naturally die off.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Perhaps even a simpler argument was if i were an artist and ran an internet radio station solely playing my own music, can SE force me to pay them royalties?

      Legally, they can't force you, but they will probably give it a good try. I'm sure their lawyers are busy coming up with wording for their letters that leaves the impression that you have no choice but to pay without actually stating that. Probably something along the lines of making threats that if you fail to pay this fee, you could be brought up on

      • I think the RIAA, and SoundExchange, would claim that they are representing YOU (or your computer), as a music creator, and collecting royalties on YOUR behalf.
        I think SoundExchange wouldn't do a damn thing, since they're only legally bound to collect royalties in the case where no explicit license, such as royalty-free music, exists.
  • Broadcast (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JackSpratts (660957) on Tuesday May 22 2007, @10:29PM (#19231777) Homepage

    they shouldn't be paying a penny more than the terrestrial stations, which has always been a simple composition mechanical.

    soundexchange's first round of performance royalties in june '02 killed some 40,000 bedroom broadcasters overnight.

    2010's next round will simply finish off the rest.

    - js.

  • was SaveNetRadio the voice of small internet radio stations worldwide?
  • I don't understand or try to understand the current business model of music royalty system, but as I see it, the current business model (or at least the logic) around music industry is arse backward to me.

    Shouldn't the music industry and artist PAY the over-the-air/internet radio station?

    current:
    1. make music
    2. charge broadcasters for pay-per-play royalty
    3. free marketing and advertising through broadcasters
    4. sell music license to listeners
    5. profit

    So in an essence, music industry is making profit over alr
  • Perhaps this is all common sense to everyone else, but I am just now seeing the business angle of this issue. I am a layman on this subject, so please regard all of the following as purely conjecture:

    Free/donation based internet stations play the same music advertising driven stations play, but without the annoyance of commercial interruption.

    Free/Donation based stations usually have the goal of generating just enough revenue to cover their expenses, while advertising driven stations hope to generate a prof
  • Before I started my own darkwave radio station [mirrorshades.org] (plug!) via shoutcast, I ran my station off live365. They made it easy, offered a pretty decent rate, and for the price I paid they handled the royalty issues, I had a fairly certain guaranteed uptime, and playlist management was easy. In return all I had to do was make sure all my songs were precisely and accurately ID3 encoded -- so that live365 could host ads and links for the artists I was spinning.

    Sounds great for everyone, you ask me...I get to play music I love, people get to hear music they may never hear outside the drunken haze of a goth club, and the artists get free exposure, along with links and ads to their music if you wanted to buy it.

    I know this model works because I was (and am) a live365 subscriber for years, and have bought at least two dozen albums based solely on the music I heard on particular stations, music to which I would not otherwise have been exposed. In fact, rips of those albums are a large part of what I spin today on my own station.

    And as for that, today, with mirrorshades radio, I have artists sending me music asking to get put into rotation, and listeners, writing to tell me how great this track or that was and that they just grabbed it off iTunes. I know at least one guy who went to the VNV Nation concert here in Atlanta after hearing them on my station -- he'd never heard them before, and what's that mean for VNV Nation? A ticket sale they wouldn't have otherwise had, not to mention whatever swag he probably bought while he was there.

    Artists get increased exposure and sales. Listeners get music and choice. I (and my fellow broadcasters) get to play to whatever niche market we choose. Everyone gains, and no one loses, except for the RIAA, hawking their antiquated and outmoded business model.

    I've said it before but I'll say it again -- there ain't no Benjamens in the net radio trade. We broadcast for love of the music and artists enjoy the exposure. I was lucky enough to get free hosting for my stream, allowing me a great deal of versatility, but many small broadcasters turn to live365 and similar hosts for cheap, reliable broadcasts, for which they pay their dues and offer free advertising in exchange.

    If the majority of people who use live365 as their broadcast platform could afford the rates that soundexchange is demanding, they wouldn't be on live365 to begin with -- they'd have their own dedicated servers with no ads and listeners limited only by bandwidth. As is so often the case, the Big Guys are beating up on the only segment of the population that can't defend themselves.

    Stop treading on us, and let the music play.
  • The problem is they stuck in the eighties. Back then The music industry caused suck a stink over "pirate" radio stations that the feds would just round up any unlicensed broadcasters and toss them in the clink.
    That was successful and in the music industry's mind all these internet radio stations are just a new version of pirate radio.
    The only flaw in their thinking is that while before they were hijacking the airwaves and breaking the FCC's laws, Now they are not breaking any laws and aren't hijacking an
    1. Where does this money go to?
    2. In how far is this reasonable to artists broadcasting their own works?
    I am starting to believe all these companies (mostly ran/supported/requested) by the RIAA/MPAA/... are there only to stiffle creativity and to push their products down my throat. Someone please correct me or are there really people trying to tell other artists to join or "something bad might happen with your creativity" ? Maybe ignorance is bliss.
  • Rather than using the "throwing X under the bus" analogy, I prefer this one:

    It's like going to a flea market, kicking everyone in the balls, and then buying a few moldy baseball cards from that one guy in the corner so you can claim you're a legitimate patron.
    • It's like going to a flea market, kicking everyone in the balls, and then buying a few moldy baseball cards from that one guy in the corner so you can claim you're a legitimate patron.

      dad, have you been drinking again?
  • by LordMyren (15499) on Wednesday May 23 2007, @10:33AM (#19237867) Homepage
    There is a fairly good $500 minimum rate for small non-commercial webcasters, which actually seems fairly reasonable to me. It covers near ~140,000 listening hours a year, which would give 1000 users 10 hours of listening per month. Another breakdown would be 140 listeners at 20 hours a week. Or, you have on average 384 listening hours per day. As a former college radio DJ and a current online radio addict, these numbers are fairly good, and definitely a great starting place, providing a somewhat reasonable flat rate capable of covering quite a large number of online webcasters.

    Does anyone know what payment royalties current webcasters must pay? For the all the crybabying and hubabaloo I've seen very little in terms of comparison. Please link me some rules!

    Of course, the real fucked up situation is the fact that we have to pay SoundExchange, the biggest scam organization on the planet. They were spun off from everyones favorite RIAA in 2000 as an independent entity responsible for collecting and distributing broadcast dues. But these fuckers will never give a dog damned dime to My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult, no matter how many times I play their discography. The money we pay them doesnt do jack shit for the authors and artists we play. I'd like to see their profit margins and executive salaries, so I can complete the trifecta and cackle myself to death. These guys are the worst of the worst, and should be aborted like a bad mistake. The fact that we pay mafioso organizations like this at all is just criminal. Frankly I'd much rather track down every artists I play and give them $5.