Slashdot Log In
A Million Zunes Sold
Journal written by Zune-Online.com (1081233) and posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon May 28, 2007 07:55 AM
from the zero-sold-to-anyone-i-know dept.
from the zero-sold-to-anyone-i-know dept.
According to Robbie Bach, Microsoft's president of the Entertainment and Devices Division, Zune has already met the goal of 1.000.000 players sold, set at launch for the end of June. He also confirms that new Zune things will come in this fall, talks (not) about the Zune Phone, the new Watermelon Red Zune, the Zune Marketplace and of course Xbox 360.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Same with the ipods back when they hit 1 mil. (Score:3)
I actually see many Zunes in use in the D.C. area (most of them are used for watching missed episodes of Lost, 24, and Heroes)
Re:Same with the ipods back when they hit 1 mil. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I am willing to bet that Microsoft has around 50 to 60,000 employees and contractors and that a majori
Re:How is this insightful? (Score:5, Informative)
No, he's quite correct.
Plus, I'll heap some more numbers upon you, just out of spite.
Apple is going to sell 9.5 million iPods ending this quarter. 9.5 _million_ iPods in _one quarter_ , while it took _two_ quarters to sell 1 million Zunes.
9.5 million versus 500 thousand/quarter. Please also note that I'm splitting the Zune sales evenly between two quarters, ignoring the initial early-adopter bump. You're not going to see many Zunes, period.
http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&artic
"According to the firms latest report, global PMP/MP3 player unit shipments will rise to 268.6 million units in 2011, expanding at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 13 percent from 128.7 million units in 2005. In 2007, player shipments are expected to rise to 216.9 million units, up 21.8 percent from 178.1 million in 2006, iSuppli said."
So the market is going to grow by nearly 39 million units _this year alone_ and the Zune will be 2 million of that, roughly. That's not enough to be visible.
--
BMO
Parent
Re:but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
In the UK, if a million were sold there you'd have a 1/54 chance [or so] of knowing someone who owned a Zune. In Canada, it'd be about 1/32 or so. And given that I don't regularly hang out with 32 peeps [assuming all were sold in Canada though...] it's not surprising me that I haven't seen one.
Tom
Parent
Re:but ... (Score:5, Funny)
So, if you have less than a hundred very close friends, you're not likely to have seen one.
Parent
Re:but ... (Score:5, Informative)
I've found that Ogg Vorbis offers noticeably better fidelity than mp3 at comparable comression. It's not something that you can easily hear with a portable player and cheap headphones, but on quality gear the difference is obvious.
Ogg is much, much better at preserving the character of high-frequency sounds and overtones (think cymbals and strings), and much more faithfully preserves dynamic range. Again, this won't make much difference on the train with your ipod ear buds, but run it through a decent sound system and the mp3s just sound muddy. And when it comes to Classical music, mp3 is nearly useless. Ogg does a decent enough job of it, but I still keep Classical and many Jazz recordings in FLAC.
From what I understand, the lack of Ogg support on many players stems less from commercial or legal concerns (patent issues vis a vis Fraunhofer notwithstanding) than from technical issues. Ogg needs more juice to decode, which means needing stronger processors, better means of heat dissipation, and a necessary hit on battery performance. Not that it can't be done, but it requires more expensive components and shorter battery lives.
But the lack of Ogg support on the ipod is not a huge deal. I wish it were there, but that doesn't stop me from transcoding from Ogg (or FLAC) to mp3 for the ipod and keeping the Oggs and FLACs on my Myth system.
I do favor open source whenever possible but am no fanatic. I am, however, a musician, and sound quality is as imortant as, or more important to me than portability. Especially when portability is so easy after the fact.
And I think it's pretty stupid of you to not realize that other people may do things diferently than you, and they're not wrong because of it.
As far as the Zune claims go, I don't buy it for a minute, any more than I buy the claim of 40m Vista licenses sold.
I take the el to work in Chicago, and every day I see dozens of people with ipods. I've yet to see a single Zune in the wild, and at retail outlets like Microcenter or Target there always seems to be a crowd of people looking at the ipods on display while the Zune is simply ignored. I don't think I've ever even seen a working Zune on display -- they're always off or broken.
Microsoft's numbers don't mean a thing. The numbers to look at are from retailers: How many Zunes have been sold at Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.? It's certainly not as high as Microsoft would have you believe. No matter what color they make it.
Parent
Re:but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
I take the el to work in Chicago, and every day I see dozens of people with ipods. I've yet to see a single Zune in the wild, and at retail outlets like Microcenter or Target there always seems to be a crowd of people looking at the ipods on display while the Zune is simply ignored. I don't think I've ever even seen a working Zune on display -- they're always off or broken.
Microsoft's numbers don't mean a thing. The numbers to look at are from retailers: How many Zunes have been sold at Amazon, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.? It's certainly not as high as Microsoft would have you believe. No matter what color they make it.
So because you haven't seen one of a million Zunes sold in the world you don't buy it? Yes, you have seen iPods, because they have sold over 2 orders of magnitude more. They have sold a total of 100 million iPods (according to Apple), so of course you have seen an assload more of them. I have never seen an iPod video outside of a store, but I am willing to accept that they have sold a whole lot of them.
As far as MS only selling a million Zunes in this time, that is exactly what they expected. They realized they were moving into a new market with a dominant force in it (Apple). They are trying to get their foot in the door, get their product known, and slowly increase sales. It is similar to what they did with the original XBox. They knew they wouldn't go in and take over the market. Instead they go in, take their lumps and slowly build a base and a better product.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
every day i see dozens of various players/pdas/phones in use on the bus, waiting in queues and so forth. i would recognise a zune if i saw one as it has such a large screen. still haven't seen one. ipods, creative, archos (and i thought they were rare) are common. i watch my portable tv on a nokia 770.
they should be more visible as you can watch videos on them so they should be in
Best Buy, Comp USA, Wal-Mart? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Even Steve got an iPod instead, although he won't admit to it.
Re:Best Buy, Comp USA, Wal-Mart? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that it matters anyway. Saying you've sold a million at this point is admitting defeat. Apple sold that many players last week. A million in almost a year is horrible and complete failure.
Parent
Re:but ... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Worked apparently.
I was pretty surprised that he bought it. Probably just has a big collection of WMA files.
Re:but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well I don't know anyone who owns a John Deer tractor, does that mean all the ones that are sold are being bought by people working for the company?
Sheesh, when will you people learn that your circle of friends and contacts are not at all representative of the population as a whole...
And to be honest if you have never even seen a zune, that must mean you havn't set foot in an electronics store recently (assuming they are distributing them over there in the UK as heavily as they are over here in the colonies), which means you probably wouldn't know too many people that owns one.
Parent
Finally! What I've been waiting for! (Score:5, Funny)
Now, at long last, a Watermelon Zune! It's as hip as a watermelon, and twice as easy to use!
Re:Finally! What I've been waiting for! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Finally! What I've been waiting for! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
Has anyone ever been somewhere and seen more than say three in a five minute span?
Re:Really? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
10% of $product market... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Hey, put down that Troll mod -- part-time Linux-based programmer with an iPod here... Really.)
Re:10% of $product market... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:10% of $product market... (Score:5, Informative)
1/100 = 1% not 0.1%
The only way to get down to 0.1% is if the iPod only had a 10% share of the overall MP3 player market. I'm pretty sure the iPod's market share is something like 60 or 70 percent.
soo..
100/.6 = ~166 million total MP3 players
1/166 = zune market share of 0.6%
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:10% of $product market... (Score:5, Insightful)
OTOH, when other companies achieve 10% market share against a convicted but unrepentant monopolist with billions of dollars in his war chest and an army of lawyers, yes, that is big news.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Good job pulling that 10% figure out of your ass. Myself, I try to get sources when I pull off numbers:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/09ipod.htm l [apple.com]
If the Zune had taken 10% of the market, it would certainly have been significant. Less than 1%? No-name cheap players have probably done that much,
Re:10% of $product market... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple doesn't have a market share of 100 million iPods. They've got an _installed base_ of 100 million iPods. During the first three months of '07, Apple sold 10,549,000 [apple.com] iPods - but the Shuffle and the Nano don't count (flash-based). Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that about half the iPods Apple sell are the HD models, and that they'll sell about the same again the April-June period. So you're looking at about 8-10 million HD iPods sold in the period described. Suddenly, a 10% market share for the Zune selling about 1 million in the same period isn't unrealistic.
I think we can assume that the Microsoft guy got the size of the market right - he may be exaggerating sales by including units still in the channels and not with customers, but the size of the market is right.
Still, I don't know who buys these things. But then, I don't think MS sells them in Australia yet, so that's hardly surprising for me.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple doesn't have a market share of 100 million iPods. They've got an _installed base_ of 100 million iPods. During the first three months of '07, Apple sold 10,549,000 [apple.com] iPods - but the Shuffle and the Nano don't count (flash-based).
I'm sorry to jump in your fun numbers game, but...
Do you think the future of iPods (in the generic sense) is in hard drives?
Because the way I see things going, it seems like non-mechanical storage is on the march.
Re:10% of $product market... (Score:4, Informative)
By (fiscal) year, Apple sold this many iPods:
2002 381,000
2003 939,000
2004 4,416,000
2005 22,497,000
2006 39,409,000
2007 31,615,000 (the two fiscal quarters ending in March 07)
So Microsoft's sales of 1,000,000 would be impressive if it had actually sold that many to consumers. The fact is however, that Microsoft reports sales by counting how many units it has pushed off on retailers. Microsoft reported sales of 10 million Xbox 360s last fall, after only selling 6 million to users. It continues to push retailers to take deliveries of units to create the appearance that the 360 has not reached saturation, despite little new growth. Given that it could dump 4 million 360's on retailers last fall, it's actually a pretty dismal failure that Microsoft can't manage to similarly fake sales of 4 million Zunes, even without ever selling one. If it can only mange to announce meeting its stated goal for June, it doesn't even care anymore. This is a very dead product.
Zune vs. iPhone: Five Phases of Media Coverage [roughlydrafted.com]
iPod vs Zune: Microsoft's Slippery Astroturf [roughlydrafted.com]
Next Gen Sales - Q1 2007 - Zune, Xbox, PS3, Wii, Apple TV [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Nice! (Score:4, Insightful)
* If we like said product/OS, then every tiny gain in market share is major news which is accepted without further questioning of the facts as presented. Comments on article consist of lots of pats on the back and generally positive.
* If we don't like said product/OS, then every tiny gain in market share involves questioning the facts as presented. Insert long diatribes about unfairness of past behavior. You can even make statements that conditionally apply, i.e. "monopolies are bad. Except for the iPod, they earned it!"
The funny part is you have a bunch of posts nitpicking over the 10% mark: "there's no way the Zune has 10%!" Yes, way to miss the entire point of the post.
Parent
Industry, Markets, M$. (Score:5, Insightful)
People in the industry like to break up the market into "hard drive" and "flash" segments.
And then the people at M$ like to just make up a number that sounds big and an excuse for it that sounds good but is wrong. It's called lying.
Parent
Is the Zune a Player? (Score:5, Insightful)
As a fan of Apple, I'm keen to see better players in this space to drive everyone up. It's good to see Microsoft claiming the million players sold, but the Zune as it stands today is a turkey. The innovative wireless sharing has been hobbled by unnecessarily draconian DRM, leaving a weak offering. Maybe Zune 2 will be better, but it's a failure to release a poor first showing, as now we've all got this first impression to overcome.
I'd like to see Microsoft release a really solid Zune. Promises are worth exactly nothing; only products matter.
Nice (Score:4, Funny)
Sold? or Shipped? (Score:5, Insightful)
I know more people with Archos products (2) than Zunes (1).
Probably true. but... (Score:4, Interesting)
How many sold to their own employees? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sold or shipped? (Score:3, Interesting)
1000000? (Score:5, Funny)
Question (Score:5, Funny)
No Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
How much did they pay for this slashvertisement? (Score:5, Insightful)
A million? Who bought them? (Score:4, Funny)
So far, most popular things I see in kids hands are iPods, PSPs (the little kids have Nintendo DS lites) and every type of cell phone on the planet.
This year, I only saw one kid with a Zune. She said she was sorry she bought it since all the accessories she wanted to buy only worked with iPod.
So if kids (or their parents) aren't buying Zune, who is?
-ted
MS missed the form factor (Score:4, Interesting)
If the zune was 1/2 the thickness - or thinner than an ipod - I wonder how much better it would have performed in the market. The current size is on par with what I'd expect 7 years ago from a early ipod. That's an engineering challenge much more difficult than making a portable brick that plays movies.
I've watched the form factor issue destroy Palm, now the marketdroids at microsoft have missed this mind boggingly obvious fact - thin and light is sexy.
Re:And I still don't know anyone who owns one.... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Another 700,000 are just sitting on the store shelves collecting dust. Actual sales to consumers - 50,000.
That's MSFT style accounting for you. 40 million Vista license sold, yet that included the two months before christmas when they started giving away vouchers.
Re:They're catching up, then... (Score:5, Interesting)
Catching on? No.
They *still* haven't bought the domain zune.com, talk about stupid.
Parent
Re:Reading between the lines, or what isn't said.. (Score:4, Insightful)
My daughter away in school wanted a Xen Video. We went to a retailer and asked for one. The salesman convienently heard me say Zune. They acted like they didn't know what or where the Zen's were. Either I got a real diwit for a salesman, or they were blinded by the possible spiff for selling a Zune. The store did have Zen's, but were sold out of the video model.
Parent
Re:They're catching up, then... (Score:5, Interesting)
A subtle difference. Don't confuse causation with simple correlation.
Microsoft isn't working to make the Zune a good product, it's working to sell a bad product through FUD and intimidation, but in the consumer electronics world, MS isn't doing well at all, having lost many billions every year since 2001. If Microsoft spun its Apple-like hardware/consumer products off into its own company, it would be many times more beleagured than Apple ever was in the mid 80s.
What's really going to be fun to watch is not how the Zune shrivels up next to the iPod, but how Windows Mobile is going to implode as soon as business customers realize that mobile phones don't have to spontaneously crash, spend 2 minutes rebooting, and offer arcane and bizarre interfaces and a generally crappy software experience. That is set to happen as soon as the iPhone hits. Not even AT&T can screw that up. That may make IT people question why they're continuing to use Windows products rather than an open operating systems based on Unix.
This is simply Bill Gates' second pie in the face.
Zune vs. iPhone: Five Phases of Media Coverage [roughlydrafted.com]
iPod vs Zune: Microsoft's Slippery Astroturf [roughlydrafted.com]
Next Gen Sales - Q1 2007 - Zune, Xbox, PS3, Wii, Apple TV [roughlydrafted.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There is not a single song with DRM in my iTunes library. There is not a single song with DRM on my iPod. My wife got one CD-like music container which I had to import on my four year old PowerMac because the MacBook would just eject it; it was made by Sony and no "CD" sign anywhere on it. This might h