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British Record Companies Win £41m In Damages
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue May 29, 2007 03:59 PM
from the segmenting-the-world dept.
from the segmenting-the-world dept.
Benjamin Fox writes "The BBC is reporting that online retailer CD-Wow has been ordered to pay £41m to the British Phonographic Industry. The London High Court ruled that Hong Kong-based CD-Wow, which imports cheap (but genuine) CDs from Hong Kong and elsewhere into the U.K., is '"in substantial breach" of a 2004 agreement to stop importing CDs.' This is a serious blow to proponents of an open, no-barrier music market."
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Cry me a river. (Score:5, Insightful)
Record companies win 41m damages
Which they will, naturally, turn over to the artists...
FTA: "It is vital that all retailers compete on a level playing field," said director general Kim Bayley. "Illegal imports threaten that level playing field and threaten British jobs."
Cry me a river, think of your jobs as being "outsourced" to Hong Kong. Your brick & mortar record stores are going the way of the haberdashery and cooper workshop. Be creative and come up with a new business model or go extinct.
Being in business for X years doesn't give you a mystical right to be in business for X+1.
Agreed. Not only that.... (Score:3, Insightful)
How much do CD cost nowdays?
If $10 profit can't pay everyone down the chain we need a shorter chain...
Maybe all bands should put their music on video so we can get it in the bargain DVD bin instead
Thank god i have all the music i will ever need to listen to already on Cd/record/cass/8-track. I have paid retail for 1 CD in many years and that was off ebay for a 10-year-old out of print one. OK, plus a DVD of the month thingie for The M
Re:Cry me a river. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
It seems to be normal in the UK (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Be creative and come up with a new business model or go extinct."
It's interesting that you mention that. "The record companies need to find a new business model" is a pretty common statement on Slashdot.
Here in the US, the record companies are trying just that. Perhaps seeing a future where they won't be able to make money selling individual copies of music, they are being creative and trying to get money from the radio stations (both terrestrial and online) for the playing music. It hasn't gone over
Re:Cry me a river. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's awesome how anybody wants to "flash forward" to a future that neither knows nor can make their arguments strong with when they can look at a past that can be known for sure.
I don't know how the future will look like, but I know there have been dozens of undisputable bussiness that just were flooded away by the waves of time and technology and noone misses them now (carriage builders; horse traders; water or ice street sellers; wandering surgeons and dentists; pedlars... I could go all day long), so I don't see how it could be any different with any current profession or bussiness model that today seems to be strongly stablished.
"My long-winded point being that record companies, however corrupt they may be, are a necessary evil of the world."
They are needed no more than people selling ice on the streets, and in fact much less. Till the beginning of the XX century you had that kind of music... you know, about forty minutes per piece instead of three, up to one hundred musicians on the scenario instead of a quartet, almost no singing superstars, but chores on the dozens when one of those pieces required them... They got some names, like Vivaldi, Mozart, Wagner... That industry was simply killed once the phonographic industry "saw the light" -they were able to get vast ammounts of money with what was no more than promotional media when firstly introduced, making use of professionals that needed much lower expertise levels and that were mostly marketing-driven instead of proficiency-based, so they were easily "created" out of a marketing lab. Well, they managed to have almost obscene benefits for almost a century out of it, but their time has passed and we will miss all those new rock star bands that won't be no more than our current symphonic composers that are no more.
Even in the worst case scenario where all current music standards just disappear, do you really miss the Bachs, Behetovens or Mozarts that have not been in the twenty century because the bussiness model pushed by RIAA asociates worked against them? I don't think so: when you want that kind of music you just go with Bach, Behetoven or Mozart canned or live perfomances and that's all. Then, if there're no more Led Zeppelin, The Beatles or Britney Spears, because technology or market trends go everywhere else, so what? You still will be able to listen to them if you really want it, for free, out of the Net just saying -maybe, oh, how great old days that passed away, just like when you find yourself playing with an air sword after watching -again, Excalibur.
Just remember that on a free market, really no bussiness is essential or non-reemplazable.
Parent
Re:Cry me a river. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd love to see the RIAA reaction to that one!
Re:Cry me a river. (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly this kind of thing is more "business news" than "entertainment news". As it exposes the hypocricy of claims of "free trade", "globalization", etc.
The real story here is the (ab)use of the legal system to hinder the "globalization" of retail business.
Parent
One thing I didn't see in the article (Score:4, Insightful)
The gun is a lawsuit. (Score:3, Insightful)
B.S. (Score:5, Interesting)
"The vibrancy of British music depends on a fair return on the investments that allow British talent to shine.
"This decision is an important step in ensuring that British music has a bright future."
So my question is... Why are the cd's being sold at such low prices in places like Hong Kong, where this company is buying them for resale in England. How are the artists getting a fair return selling their albums for such low prices in Hong Kong?
Regards.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Same argument as... (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't change the fact that while living in this wealthier nation many the people I know cannot afford proper health care or buy the medications at all.
I'm not trying to be bitchy with you. I am just frustrated with the realities of globalization.
Regards.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, there are lots of similarities between the music biz and the drug biz - maybe why these are both such hot-button issues in the age of easy IP transfers. In both industries, it costs a lot to develop a new product, and next to nothing to produce copies of it. In both industries, the argument for IP controls is that they are needed to keep
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's a tricky issue for a libertarian-leaning capitalist like myself. ... On the other, property rights should be respected.
The first thing that'll help you with this argument is the realization that "Intellectual Property" is not property. Copyright is an artificial construct of government, whereby certain entities are granted a limited time monopoly on the copying of their creative works. This monopoly is actually a restriction on the rights of everyone else. Now, this monopoly can be sold as property, but that's hardly relevent. "Respecting their property" has nothing to do with "respecting copyright". The work itself is irr
Re: (Score:2)
That sentence in and of itself says all you need to know.
The only artist in the UK I can think of who's represented by an RIAA record company and writes her own songs is Lily Bloody Irritating Allen.
Just to put it into context - American Idol appeared first on UK screens under the name "Pop Idol" long before American Idol was conceived. Not only do we manufacture crap music, we make television shows
Re: (Score:2)
They still make a profit, and the artists can still make a killing doing concerts in those countries.
Currencies differences, among others (Score:2)
Similarly, 1GBP= 1.98119 USD = 15.4949 HKD. If I were to go to Hong Kong and buy a CD, it might still cost me 15
Hong Kong-based CD-Wow (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Other side of the coin (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, indeed it does, and it's not just the engineers. Don't expect them to pay up any time soon, though, and I think you meant "... imported cheap (but genuinely foreign) workers
they call it rip-off England for a reason (Score:5, Insightful)
What would be next? Where would it end? What if petrol prices also reached parity? It just wouldn't be proper!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Breaking a 2004 Agreement = Blow to Open Market? (Score:3, Insightful)
page views (Score:3, Interesting)
Doesn't really sell into Your Rights Online, does it?
Re:Breaking a 2004 Agreement = Blow to Open Market (Score:2)
I would guess the agreement came about under pressure of copyrights.
Copyrights are monopoly rights. No Open or Free Market in those goods.
all the best,
drew
What the bloody... (Score:2)
This is the first time? (Score:2)
True it will hurt the local market, but that's the price you pay for a free market. Not agreeing with it, but it's the reality of the new world.
It should be a clear warning sign (Score:5, Insightful)
One place has too much red-tape and taxes, or one place has too few standards and protections, but in this case I think it's both.
some more info from TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully the EU will strike this effective tariff-imposing down - people may lambast them, but the EU seems to be the only thing protecting us from the jokers in Westminster who make laws to benefit corporate interests over those of consumers.
Small Victory (Score:5, Funny)
This is funny stuff (Score:2)
That's the funniest line in the whole article.
Does that mean without money, talent won't shine? If you're doing the shining, can the money be in sterling, euros, or dollars? Can you get some shine with the yen?
I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Now that the record companies can get a fair return, the talent will shine brighter than ever. I can see the shine from here.
Corporation gives immunity (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice and this is based on Canadian law, but UK law is similar.
If the new corporation is controlled by the same people, the transaction is considered to be non-arm's-length. If the assets aren't sold at fair market value and the old corporation goes bankrupt (as a result of a legal judgement), the transaction could be set aside and the assets would go to the old corporations creditors. Courts don't like bankrupt people or comp
So (Score:2)
Ah, globalisation (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're a consumer of that same product, then you're fucked and have to pay whatever the producer decrees is the market price in your country. Even if that price is many multiples of the exact same product in another country (cf: Adobe software prices in the UK compared to the US, to name but one example).
I'm still waiting to hear an even vaguely plausible reason why record companies charge vastly more for a music CD, a piece of plastic and metal on which the largest production expenses - the actual recording and artists' advances - have already been paid, in the UK than to buy that same CD from Hong Kong including shipping halfway around the world other than sheer, unashamed, blatant, greedy price-gouging of British consumers. And I'll be waiting a long time, because there isn't one.
Re:Ah, globalisation (Score:5, Interesting)
Your cynical definiton of globalization is skewed. Globalization should mean more and global freedom for everybody. For many companies and ordinary citizens, this is already a reality (in the European Union, for example). What we need to do now is to make globalization the reality for everybody. For example, this would mean that a UK citizen can buy CDs in Hong Kong or anywhere else (usually where they get them for the cheapest price).
However, in this special case we are dealing with, the company apparently broke an "agreement" (i.e., a contract) - although TFA is not very clear what exactly happend (speaking of "breaking [a] 2004 court undertaking [...]", whatever that is), and if they did that, they are lawfully punished for it.
Anyway, the course must not be more restrictions - it must be more openness and liberty for companies and citizens alike.
Parent
The Hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)
If I was British (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If I was British (Score:4, Insightful)
We have many reasons for wanting a different government - this one isn't even close to the top 10.
Parent
Let's make things fair (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want protection from parallel imports/greymarket sales, then you should be forced to develop your products from scratch in the country in which you're expecting protection.
e.g., if you benefit from cheaper production in China, the customers should be able to expect cheaper sales via China/HK. If you want to kill off parallel imports in CountryX, then research, design and handle production for your product entirely in Country.
grey importing legal in Australia (Score:5, Interesting)
Unwritten (?) Record Company Golden Rule (Score:3, Insightful)
Journalism (Score:3, Interesting)
What's been particularly interesting/scary is the complete lack of "mainstream" journalism on this subject. I watched a section on BBC Newsnight which totally failed to address any of the issues that even the most unkarma Slashdot troll would have raised. The mouthpiece from the BPI was given free-reign.
This is very disappointing because it means we are not getting our message through to the mainstream.
Rich
Here in Australia, its legal (Score:3, Interesting)
If the same thing happened in the UK and all the UK record stores were on the same level playing field (and could import stuff from Hong Kong just like CD-WOW does), this wouldn't be an issue.
Who's the importer in the story? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not CD Wow.
If I live in the UK and order something from overseas, I am officially the importer.
I have to pay the relevant import duties and taxes when the goods arrive. In this case, as you will notice from the text quoted from CD Wow's site, the duties are paid on my behalf by the shipping agent, out of the payment made to CD Wow. But in essence, it is still me, as the importer, who is paying the duties albeit through an agent.
The company selling the stuff to me is the exporter.
Beef.
Its a great tradition in Britain (Score:3, Interesting)
So guess what? BL then exported their cars to Germany, and sold them below cost. Doubtless in pursuit of the Queen's Awards for Export. Enterprising people with a crazed desire to buy cars guaranteed to rust and break down then tried to import them back into the UK.... After all, if you were going to buy a pile of junk, why pay list for it? That's not quite how they thought of it.
The more it goes around, the more it comes around.
So help me understand this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Check.
I then have to get another job, possibly in another field.
Check.
Most jobs being created in the US and UK economies are service industry jobs where I have few applicable qualifications so I will most likely take a serious pay cut.
Check.
Because I now have a lot less disposable income, if I want to maintain my previous quality of life I need to look to other sources for products. I can't afford HMV or Virgin prices of GBP15 for a new CD anymore. Imports from overseas may be one solution to this. After all, it's exactly what $GlobalCorp did in step 1 - saved money by sourcing their product (my labour in this case) from a cheaper market.
Nope - can't do that.
AFAIK this is explicitly against the WTO agreements on price differentiation in different markets and the prevention of people from taking advantage of this. This is why the BPI have to use shady trademark laws (see Levi vs Tesco for more on this).
Time to make this shit personal and stop being sheeple!