No OLPCs for Cuba, Ever

An anonymous reader writes "In a move going largely unnoticed by developers, the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project. While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting. First, contributors have to sign the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. By being forced to submit contributions to the Fedora repository they automatically fall under the provisions of US export law. So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever."

for always and eternity

[stoolpigeon (454276)]

because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.

Re:for always and eternity

[eln (21727)]

They probably won't change during the useful life of the OLPC. The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries. Even though they haven't worked at all (and in fact have only served to further entrench the regimes in question) over the more than 40 years they've been in place, we're still convinced that if we keep them around just a little bit longer, democracy will flourish.

Like John Stewart said, we've given up trying to kill Castro with food poison, now we're trying to kill him with "old age poison." If we wait long enough, the regimes will eventually fall, and we can then claim it was all because of the embargo.

Re:for always and eternity

[speaker of the truth (1112181)]

If Cuba wants the embargo lifted they need to provide cheap labor like China does. After all, China commits terrible atrocities and yet we continue to trade with them for our cheap electronics. Cuba on the other hand, not so bad in recent times, but they only give us cigars so we keep the embargo.

Re:for always and eternity

[stoolpigeon (454276)]

No - if Cuba wants the embargo lifted - they need to persuade the politically strong Cuban-American groups that work so hard to keep the embargo in place. This issue, like so many others - has deeper roots and issues than your humorous comment allows.

With Cuba, it's personal (plus sugar lobby...)

[billstewart (78916)]

The Cuba embargo is mostly around because fanatics in Florida take it very personally, and there are enough votes in Florida that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are willing to mess with it. Eventually Castro's going to die, and that might change things.

But Cuba's main agricultural product, besides tobacco, is sugar, and the US has had high tariffs on sugar for a long time. Not only does that prop up US sugar producers (mainly Louisiana, Hawaii, Florida_) by keeping the US sugar price far higher than the world average, but the High-Fructose Corn Syrup lobby likes high sugar prices because they can put their dreck into our soda, while the rest of the world gets to have Coke with real sugar in it. So the Archer Daniels Midland gang also don't want free trade with Cuba.

I'd recommend that next time you're in Canada, you get some Cuban cigars, except for the problem that they put carcinogenic flammable tobacco products in the things....

Re:With Cuba, it's personal (plus sugar lobby...)

[randomjohndoe (618905)]

This is true

The Cuba embargo is mostly around because fanatics in Florida take it very personally, and there are enough votes in Florida that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are willing to mess with it.

Florida has 25 elecotoral votes, 4th behind California (54), New York (33) and Texas (32).

The US Electoral College is a winner takes all system, so the presidential candidate who wins the popular vote in any state, no matter how small the margin, gets all the electoral votes for that state. In 2000 Bush beat Gore in FL by a tiny fraction of a percent, winning all 25 of FL's electoral votes, and thus the election. Anti-Castro Cubans are not a big group, but they are concentrated in FL and they are single issue voters (whereas anti-embargo voters are neither), so they can swing a close presidential election. So their influence on Cuba policy is disproportionate.

Something that is overlooked is that even if Castro lives to be 120, the US policy will change eventually because the Anti-Castro Cubans are getting older too, and their children are more moderate. And a lot of them would like to visit their homeland some day.

the embargo is a two-edged sword

[gobbo (567674)]

You bet! Cuban rum is great, that Bacardi shit they sell us everywhere sucks.

Here's a perk of living in (even rural) Canada: I go down to the garage/general/liquor store, and there on the shelf is Havana Club, "Ron puro Cubano," mmm, great is right. And cuban coffee in the cupboard, it's only pretty good but it's organic.

There may be long-term competitive benefits accruing to Cuba out of the blockade and its hardships.

The whole island has pretty much gone organic [sustainabletimes.ca], as part of the austerity produced by the embargo, and they're trying to turn that constraint into a strength. When the embargo finally drops in the US, watch for cuban specialty products showing up in the organic food stores.

They need an internationally credible domestic certification system to really flourish, however the embargo has forced them to look hard at their local food security, so they'd be okay if international trade was interrupted. They have international trade in things like organic fruits and coffee, and they've made interesting innovations with domestic distribution in mind, like the Organopónicos. [cualtos.udg.mx]

The embargo has created constraints that make it an interesting testbed for development without the overwhelming influence of large transnationals. It's a race between the international organic sector to help establish Cuba as an entrenched organic ag system and the influx of Life Sciences transnationals that might happen if there's regime change.

Cuba's ripe turf [newsvine.com] for donated linux-ready systems, so support that goal [computeraid.org] in some way. There's enough real zeal [vnunet.com] for independence and common interests to make it a interesting test bed for a society running on open-source software.

Re:for always and eternity

[elrous0 (869638)]

Not only that, but they need to abandon hippie shit like free health care too. We can't have them hanging around right off our coast showing Americans that universal health care can be done (it's hard enough clouding Americans' vision of Canada's healthcare system by making up a bunch of negative lies about it).

How are our insurance companies supposed to turn a profit with shit like that going on?

Re:for always and eternity

[dosquatch (924618)]

We treat Cuba like we do because Kennedy's ordered assassination of Castro failed.

Fixed it for ya.

Oh, damn, I didn't see the "don't feed the trolls" sign. Sorry.

Re:for always and eternity

[Kirgin (983046)]

lol, you do realize Castro's family was rich and was part of the ruling class in Cuba BEFORE the revolution. Same with Che Guevara's. Guess what plantation was the first one given over to the "people" Castro's mother's. Castro gave everything his family owned to the people.

Castro lives in a shack compared to the average upper middle class in the US.

When I say that children will get the best first in Cuba its just a continuation of their philosophy. Schools have better computers than banks in Cuba. If you aren't working you are in school in Cuba. They know its the best defense against being exploited again. You can't exploit a society thats smarter than yours.

What you need to do is assume everything you hear on Fox news is the opposite of how it is in Cuba.

Re:for always and eternity

[MontyApollo (849862)]

I believe there are items exempted from this embargo, and particular items can be exempted on a case by case basis. Congress would not have to revoke the law, just add another exception to it.

Re:for always and eternity

[TheMeuge (645043)]

The US still is under the impression that sanctions and trade embargoes will actually cause regime change in these countries.

And this impression is absolutely right. As the sanctions damage the economies of the countries in question and perpetuate the strife, the regimes do and will continue to change: from anti-US, aggressive, and violent... to MORE anti-US, MORE aggressive and MORE violent.

Re:for always and eternity

[bloobloo (957543)]

It's the US that has the draconian embargoes. In the civilized world we can visit Cuba etc.

Re:for always and eternity

[dharbee (1076687)]

"In the civilized world we can visit Cuba etc."

So, what about Europeans? Can they visit Cuba too?

Re:for always and eternity

[Aqua_boy17 (962670)]

Good luck with that.

If you've travelled abroad lately from the US, you know that the folks at Homeland Security take their jobs very seriously. Also, the State Department has been nailing US citizens who have visited Cuba without authorization with very stiff fines. When they do find out you've visited there from a 3rd country (and they will), expect a registered letter or summons to appear in federal court. It's happened to people I know. Fines and court fees can run in the thousands of dollars.

Cuban products are also considered contraband in the US and therefore are just as illegal as if you were smuggling pot or cocaine. If you are found with cuban made cigars, rum, etc. on your person that you have not declared, you can be detained, prosecuted, fined, and possibly jailed if you get a nasty prosecutor. Not at all worth it for an authentic mojito and a few cojibas IMHO.

Re:for always and eternity

[Grishnakh (216268)]

China has nukes pointed at us. China also kills and imprisons people for trying to exercise free speech. Yet China is our most favored nation trading partner.

Not too smart, are you?

Re:for always and eternity

[klossner (733867)]

Yet China is our most favored nation trading partner.

No, they are nothing of the sort. Most favored nation trading status [wikipedia.org] is a misnomer; it actually means normal trading status. The U.S. stopped using the term altogether in 1998; we now call it normal trade relations [wikipedia.org].

Re:for always and eternity

[by Anonymous Coward]

What gave you that idea? US citizens are banned from traveling to Cuba except for educational or humanitarian purposes. The fines tend to be in the $30,000-$40,000 [abpnews.com] range. They didn't enforce it very often until the current administration took office, but now it is very common.

Re:for always and eternity

[UnHolier than ever (803328)]

Only the US maintains an embargo towards Cuba. It never asked the Security Council to do so.

Re:for always and eternity

[eln (21727)]

I know we like to blame the UN for everything here at Slashdot, but the embargo against Cuba was enacted by President Kennedy in 1961, with the total travel ban enacted in 1963. The UN certainly has its hands in a lot of useless sanctions, but to pretend the UN is responsible for the Cuba situation, or that the US does not exert tremendous influence over the UN, is just flat wrong.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

I just wanted to have a go at the UN

There, fixed your typo for you.

Re:

[spisska (796395)]

The UN still is under the impression that sanctions...

Fixed your typo. Unless you're under the impression that the US has complete and total control of the security council suddenly.

Nope. The embargo on Cuba is purely a US matter. There was a time when the US could bully plenty of Central and South American countries into honoring it, but the US is pretty much alone these days. Neither the UN nor the UN Security Council has ever had an embargo on Cuba.

Re:for always and eternity

[Martin Blank (154261)]

The trade embargo with Cuba is US-specific, and the nearly-complete embargoes (such as those with Iran and Syria) are often also US-specific. Europe and Canada trade fairly freely with the island nation, and Russia sells plenty of military gear to both Iran and Syria.

There are places where economic embargoes, or the threat thereof, may have significant benefit. Libya's acquiesence to UN demands regarding the Lockerbie suspects and checmical and nuclear programs probably came about in part due to economic pressures that prevented foreign companies from investing significantly in its oil fields. And Iran instituted fuel rationing a couple of days ago in response to threat of embargo of gasoline trade into the country in an attempt to build up reserves in anticipation of trade sanctions. Iran has extremely limited refining capabilities, and so imports around a third of its gasoline, and then subsidizes it to 20% of its market price. The response was the destruction of several fuel stations, some small riots, and a very divided and irritated parliament taking up the issue.

However, in order for trade embargoes to really work, they usually have to be nearly universal, though even then there is no guarantee. North Korea is a prime example here, where the leaders keep such a tight lid on the people that they don't fear uprisings, while they live in comfort that their people can barely even dream about. However, recent targeting of leadership assets overseas has brought pressure there that tangible results (a scheduled shutdown of DPRK's reactor in July) may be coming about.

Re:for always and eternity

[i (8254)]

No. Not necessarely at least.
When Castro dies, his brother Ramon will take over. And he is a stalinist-type communist.

Fidel himself was not a (pure) communist from the beginning, but as Cuba was isolated by USA after the revolution he had to go to Soviet for help (economical and other).
And by that the regime went to communism.

Re:for always and eternity

[WED Fan (911325)]

When Castro dies, his brother Ramon will take over.

I thought his brother was Raul?

By the way, did you ever wonder what happened to the other Castro Brothers?

• Chico - Working at a small garage in Havana keeping all the '58 Chevy's runny. And, installing the little nodding dogs in the back window
• Ramone - Last seen doing a drag impersonation of his older brother Fidel in a Miami club
• Harpo - Makes the best Mohitos in Ft. Lauderdale, doesn't talk much
• Julio (now Conchita) - Works a corner in New York City
• Juan - Was standing against a wall, when an entire line of soldiers, cleaning their weapons, accidentally shot him. This had nothing to do with an argument he had with his younger brother Fidel, the night before, about who played the best Darren on "Bewitched"
• Raymondo - Fled Cuba after painting the slogan "Dick York Lives" on the side of Fidel's prized Bel Air sedan

Re:for always and eternity

[ShieldW0lf (601553)]

As a Canadian, I like the trade embargo.

It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no Americans.

Now, that's something that money just can't buy.

Re:for always and eternity

[nomadic (141991)]

It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no Americans.

We're not so bad... [reuters.com]

Re:for always and eternity

[by Anonymous Coward]

And of course you don't also mind your non-American vacation coming at the costs of Cubans under their oppressive government. I'm sure you wouldn't have any problem switching places with the Cubans :) You could still have your problem with Americans!

First off, ram that smug, goddamned smiley back up your rectum where you found it.

Don't give me any of your jingoistic, fascist "love it or leave it" horseshit. Not while we suck the asses of the fucking bastard Saudis (who provided the 9/11 folks), North Korea and the rest of the motherfucking countries willing to accept our "unlawful combatants" for torture, since we want to play Pontius Pilate with them. Sure, let's hear it, America -- "I am innocent of the blood of this beaten, shocked, genitally-mutilated man whom the Turks display to us."

Didn't your mother ever tell you, "Pick on someone your own size"? We fuck over Cuba for the same reason a dog licks it's own asshole -- because he (we) can.

We are a nation of buttfucking, cowardly bullies.

Re:

[rifter (147452)]

because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.

When it comes to Cuba, that's pretty much a given. Cuba has vowed to keep their current system in perpetuity and the US has vowed never to lift the embargoes as long as that is the case. That impasse is enforced by the Cuban expatriates and disgruntled corporations on the US side and the Castros and people with deep distrust of the US on the Cuban side. Not only is neither side budging, they aren't even discussing, or daring to suggest that they

not forever

[falcon5768 (629591)]

Just the foreseeable future. Regimes change (thank god) and governments change. Little over 30 years ago we where Irans friend and traded major arms to her (including F-14 fighters and their powerful at the time Phoenix missiles) in less than 3 years they became our sworn enemy.

things change fast in the world

Re:not forever

[Dancindan84 (1056246)]

Yeah, but Castro is some kind of immortal zombie communist.

A bit misleading

[The Breeze (140484)]

I wouldn't say "ever"...both Cuba and Syria have made steps towards getting removed from the US ban list, and with Fidel teetering on death's edge, who knows what the future will bring.

Re:

[RollingThunder (88952)]

You're right, the rest of the world has just had to put up with the US and Russia pointing enough missiles at each other for the residual damage to wipe out humanity multiple times over, for decades. We couldn't possibly understand how scary it was for you to have a few missiles in place in Cuba for a few months.

Re:A bit misleading

[NMerriam (15122)]

I guess the rest of the world hasn't had Cuban missile bases a few km off their coast and those missiles pointed at them. It tends to lead to grudges being held, you see.

Most of the world has real borders with their enemies, with tanks and missiles and bombers able to cross at any time, and has learned to deal with it. We live in a little bubble protected by two vast oceans and think that anyone saying "boo" from a thousand miles away is a mortal threat.

Our embargo against Cuba is just a pointless grudge that serves one domestic political group and does a disservice to the people of both nations overall.

Re:A bit misleading

[NMerriam (15122)]

it makes perfect sense to inconvenience your enemy if you can, and don't even suffer any damage in doing so....If you have the option to create further damage to your enemy, you just go ahead and do it. The fact that I am not in a position to do so does not mean that you should avoid it too in the name of... empathy? Or what?

Except that Cuba is not an "enemy" except to Cuban refugees in Florida. They're just a small state that has a government we dislike, but presents no real threat to us now that the Soviet Union is gone. And we certainly do suffer economically from the embargo -- if we didn't, there'd be no need to make a law against trading with them.

It isn't about empathy, it's about having Cubans see us as a prosperous ally they want to get closer to rather than as an adversary they need to set up barriers against. If we had easy tourism and trading with Cuba, it would take about 10 years for it to be one of the most pro-American places on Earth no matter what the government says about us. Money and prosperity have a strange way of bringing people closer.

This is News How?

[eldavojohn (898314)]

While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting.

It's not a big deal. Everything made in America falls under these laws. Whether it be the corn we grow or the software written (in any part) or served within the United States. Even Windows (bullet 7) [microsoft.com] falls under these restrictions.

Yet, not too surprisingly, Windows has found its way into Cuba [foxnews.com] and I'm certain the OLPC will also be found there in mass quantities if it is indeed useful/popular. Physical devices may be harder to find there than software but you'll find them there.

This isn't news. The U.S. trade embargos have been in place on Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria for a while now. Furthermore, if the laptops are made and assembled outside the U.S.

So let's get creative here, you make and manufacture the hardware outside the United States. Then you ship them to restricted countries (I think the parts are going to come from China [arstechnica.com] anyway). You leave it up to people inside Cuba or where ever to install the OLPC image. Who has violated the TOS? The citizens of the country who really don't give a damn what U.S. export laws they're breaking.

And if these laws are broken, who's going to enforce them? Redhat/Fedora? The U.S. government is going to show up and stop laptops from going to children? The U.S. government is going to shutdown a free open source software hosting site? I highly doubt it.

Re:This is News How?

[trolltalk.com (1108067)]

There's no reason someone can't also distribute the software in another country (like Cuba, Syria, Canuckistan (Canada), Germany, France, wherever ...) The "license" you agree to is not an exclusive license.

Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software distributed by the Project:

* (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such derivative works; and,

* (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, title and interest in and to your Contributions.

The internet has been known to route around damage, you know ...

Re:This is News How?

[rborek (563153)]

Yet, not too surprisingly, Windows has found its way into Cuba

Most likely from Canada, which prohibits complying with the US Cuba export restrictions laws. Complying with US law with regards to Cuba can land you in jail for up to 5 years.

Ever?

[Speare (84249)]

So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever.

Yeah, like US Law has never ever changed. Remember trade embargoes during apartheid? Castro's ill, it's not clear who will be taking over. New high-level talks have opened with Syria recently also. Not saying that either of these things are likely to change next month, but "never" is pretty long.

This is another triumph of politics...

[Brainix (748988)]

...over goodwill.

That's a little bit pessamistic

[also-rr (980579)]

One day the US will normalise relations with Cuba. The process might not happen until after the current generation of ex-Cubans in Forida is dead, but that's hardly _never_.

In the mean time they could just funnel shipments through a neutral third party. Creative accountants can manage to hide billions from the IRS, why shouldn't they be able to do something socially useful like vanish a couple of shipping containers of laptops.

That'd teach those kids...

[by Anonymous Coward]

That'd teach those kids for living in the wrong countries.

Trivial to work around

[njchick (611256)]

One person signs the agreement and submits the project to Fedora. Anther person submits the project from Fedora to OLPC. There is no requirement that it's the same person.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

lol what the fuck do you know about Cuba that you didn't see on FOX?

Sit down, Rambo.

Re:Good.

[butlerdi (705651)]

Why ? Have you been there ? They have a much better society than they would have had the American Mafia continued running it. They have good education, reasonable health care and while not so much stuff, they do not have foreclosures and bankruptcies the likes that you have been experiencing. Not to mention the next round coming on about now. Even after all these years of embargo by their ever so caring neighbors to the North, they still smile much more than anywhere I have ever seen in the US. I think sir it is you who ought to read a book.

Re:

[butlerdi (705651)]

Well, initially it was the upper and middle classes that stood to loose their wealth due to redistribution and probably some due to their assistance to the people who were at the receiving end of the revolution. Now, after 30+ years of sanctions there are people who wish for more money and the things that accompany it, the same as immigrants from other countries.

I have spent some time in Cuba and have had many interesting conversations regarding the revolution. The funny thing is that many seem to think

Re:Good.

[mujo (1083177)]

"They don't really give a shit about their people anyway."

unlike the us government who gives much shit about their people, plunging 400 billions of dollars in a war for the oil industry, refuse to give health insurance to sick americans to cater for private insurance business, wiretap their citizens, ...

land of the free!

Re:Good.

[Elemenope (905108)]

I think GP was reacting to the rather more ridiculous contention that American politicians by and large give more of a crap about the people they govern than politicans in other countries. That the countervailing evidence manifests as health insurance being inaccessible for a huge swath of the working population (when a good portion of the rest of the world has amply demonstrated is not a necessary situation), and the prosecution of an transpatently profiteering war that has killed tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans (which most of the rest of the world considered if not illegal than just plain stupid to get involved in), is simply a reflection of our own neuroses. Other countries screw over their people in different ways, according to different guiding ideologies.

Re:

[westlake (615356)]

Not only that, but if you were caught giving one to a little girl, they'd probably kill you, then behead the girl because it promotes learning.

Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97%
male: 97.2%
female: 96.9% (2003 est.) World Factbook - Cuba [yahoo.com]

Re:

[fredrated (639554)]

The US sponsers a hell of a lot more terrorism than Cuba. For example, what exactly did you think 'shock and awe' was supposed to be? George Bush has now killed far more innocent people that Castro could if he lived to be 200.