Blu-ray, HD DVD Target of EU Antitrust Probe

rfunches writes "The Wall Street Journal reports that EU antitrust regulators are turning up the heat on the Blu-ray and HD-DVD format consortiums. The European Commission has demanded evidence of Hollywood studios' communications and agreements on the new generation of DVD formats. From the article: 'The European Commission, the European Union's executive body, appears to be particularly interested in the activities of the Blu-ray group because of its dominance in Hollywood, according to people familiar with the situation. The commission is investigating whether improper tactics were used to suppress competition and persuade the studios to back their format.' The article points out that all of the major Hollywood studios except Universal are backing Blu-ray; Universal is backing HD-DVD. It also notes that while one industry watcher believes the first format to have an installed base of two million homes will come out on top, there were millions of Betamax units already sold when VHS won out in the format wars of the 80's."

Bad write up... This is a blu-ray witchhunt.

[the_skywise (189793)]

Spurred on by whom? Why by the HD DVD camp...

The HD DVD camp has been lobbying the commission to draw attention to Blu-ray's tactics in the movie capital in a bid to force more studios to put their product on HD DVD, according to people familiar with the situation. One issue the Commission has raised with some studios is statements made at the Consumer Electronics Show in January in Las Vegas about the exclusivity of studios to Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.

The European Commissio

For there to be a winner

[Bullfish (858648)]

HDTV penetration has to be much higher in all markets. VHS and Beta both worked on all TV's made at the time. These only work on HDTVs (to get any benefit from the formats). The majority of TVs out there are still SD. Likely by the time HDTV penetration is high enough, another format will emerge, or hybrid players will be very common.

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[TheThiefMaster (992038)]

Actually... http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html [cornbread.org]

That page shows images from "The Lord Of The Rings: Fellowship of the ring" from the DVD version and from the HD-DVD version downscaled to the same resolution as the DVD version (480p Widescreen).

You should be surprised that even after downscaling to DVD resolution the HD-DVD images are still obviously better.

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[Actually, I do RTFA (1058596)]

You should be surprised that even after downscaling to DVD resolution the HD-DVD images are still obviously better.

DVD compression (MPEG2) uses 16-pixel blocks. So, I would expect HD-DVD's to be about 4 or 16 times higher resolution.

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[linumax (910946)]

HDTV penetration has to be much higher in all markets.

Apparently three in 10 US households [dealerscope.com] now have an HDTV set, and the HDTV market will exceed 50 million units [nikkeibp.co.jp] by 2008.

Likely by the time HDTV penetration is high enough, another format will emerge, or hybrid players will be very common.

Video on Demand? and Hybrids are already here! so I think it's gonna be an interesting competition, hopefully the end result would be best for us consumers.

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[Bullfish (858648)]

That's a drop in the bucket. World wide figures: 1,416,338,245 televisions.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/med_tel-media-te levisions [nationmaster.com]

Re:For there to be a winner

[Paulrothrock (685079)]

Count me as one of those people who won't own an HD set until he's forced to. I just spent $400 on a 32" CRT TV, and I'm not about to go out and spend $700+ on a similarly sized HDTV. I don't watch sports or movies all that often, so what will this get me? My wife will be able to see every pore on the face of some reality TV tramp? I'll be able to make out the birthmark on Katie Sackhoff's shoulder? It doesn't add to the plot or production quality, and can often get in the way of it.

Let me put it this way: Until HDTV gives me something other than sub-microscopic picture quality, there's nothing I can't get from it that I can get from my video iPod.

I for one am...

[asphaltjesus (978804)]

shocked!

We all benefit from Free Markets because we get to choose between super-hd-blue or blue-super-hd. Why do we need regulators?

Re:I for one am...

[fbjon (692006)]

The market doesn't keep itself free, the regulators do.

Beta vs VHS history

[Maxo-Texas (864189)]

Beta was much clearer but was more expensive and had 5.5 hour tapes.
VHS ruled because 6 hour miniseries and price outweighed quality.

It won't matter in the future...

[Notquitecajun (1073646)]

Where blu-ray becomes red-ray...

and HD-DVD's become HHDDVVDBVD's.

Sarge is my HERO. RVB Forever!! http://roosterteeth.com/ [roosterteeth.com]

Once hybrids hit $400, the "race" is over.

[badboy_tw2002 (524611)]

No one gives a crap about which format does what better. Honestly, in the context of playing movies and whatnot it really doesn't matter. I'm a pretty techy guy and I couldn't tell someone the difference between the two other than Blu-ray has more capacity, which doesn't affect movies that much (maybe a two disc HD-DVD set is one disc on Blu-Ray?) The winner here will be hybrid makers, as it won't matter who puts what out on which disc, it will play them all.

Umm

[thanksforthecrabs (1037698)]

Why is this posted here when 99% of the people claim they will never own "DRM-infected" media?

Re:EU regulators out of control

[jackharrer (972403)]

Your're right. That war has nothing to do with monopoly, and shouldn't be touched by EU. Both groups have more than enough cash to persuade whoever they want to join their camp. Overall the one with better connections and marketing power will win.

Just my 2p.

Re:

[Aceticon (140883)]

Your're right. That war has nothing to do with monopoly, and shouldn't be touched by EU. Both groups have more than enough cash to persuade whoever they want to join their camp. Overall the one with better connections and marketing power will win.

One word:

Cartel

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[berashith (222128)]

It is too bad that the winner will not be determined by the consumer. The victory could be through pricing, quality, useability ... whatever, but no, we will have the format decided through connections and power.

Re:EU regulators out of control

[Lumpy (12016)]

Wrong. The one that will win will be based on a different criteria.

HDV camcorders are dirt cheap now. The people buying these camcorders want to be able to send grandma a HD copy of little stevie banging his head on the concrete and trying to poke out the cat's eyes. Whatever format that makes this easy for Joe and Janet blow will win.

Right now Indie film makers are embracing the standard DVD players that support Divx 6 pro HD codecs. Giving you full 1080i HD pleasure on a standard DVD disc and on a player that costs around $99.00 and honestly does a fantastic job at it.

BluRay has no plans for supporting a consumer created Disk format. HDDVD can in theory be burned at home and played on standalone players but nobody has their hands on a HDDVD player yet to try it. All of these consortiums are intentionally ignoring the home and indie user and that is incredibly dangerous.

it leaves a giant window open for a 3rd party to come in and take control almost overnight from both of them. Free and open HDDVD standard with no royalties and high popularity? the studios would be all over it.

Actually, for Indie filmmakers...

[benwaggoner (513209)]

We and Amazon are going to be publishing 1000 HD DVD indie movies via their Manufacture on Demand system.

Since HD DVD can be written on a DVD-5 or DVD-9 media for shorter content, doesn't require AACS for replicated content, and has cheaper and more readily available replication, it's proving to be a much more prosumer-friendly format for authoring.

Re:Actually, for Indie filmmakers...

[jZnat (793348)]

I hear people prefer to be called "people" instead of referred to as some faceless group of fucktards (i.e., consumers).

Re:EU regulators out of control

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321)]

Right now Indie film makers are embracing the standard DVD players that support Divx 6 pro HD codecs. Giving you full 1080i HD pleasure on a standard DVD disc and on a player that costs around $99.00 and honestly does a fantastic job at it.

BluRay has no plans for supporting a consumer created Disk format. HDDVD can in theory be burned at home and played on standalone players but nobody has their hands on a HDDVD player yet to try it. All of these consortiums are intentionally ignoring the home and indie user and that is incredibly dangerous.

It truly saddens me that so much disinformation gets 5 points.

First of all, almost NONE of the DVD players that support Divx support Divx in HD. To imply otherwise is just wrong. There are a very few expensive ($200 US minimum) DVD/media players that support the format such as the Avel I-O Link Player and some Helios players, but ZERO players under $100 US that can play HD Divx files. Right now, you can count on one hand the number of standalone players that are even capable of playing the format.

Secondly, while you may not know anything about people with HD-DVD players burning and playing their own discs, people on the Doom9 forums have reported being able to burn HD-DVD format to burnable media (usually DVD-9 as HD-DVD media is very expensive) and play them back correctly on HD-DVD players. And there certainly are plans for BluRay to be supported as a consumer format. There are recorders available right now, but they are very expensive.

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[utopianfiat (774016)]

I sadly agree. If consumers are more interested in "zomg high-def jackass 2!" than they are in choosing a format that has more liberalized licensing, more power to them.

Assuming they're not using nasty tactics.

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[Jugalator (259273)]

Huh? Of course they let the consumers make that choice.

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[by Anonymous Coward]

as stated, the EU is trying to make sure there are options for the consumer, but basically, it boils down to this.

1) The average person cannot know all there is to know about everything, as such, most people don't know most of the things there is to know about what they buy. This means that the providers have a major advantage if they want to rip off or swindle someone. Unfortunately what the EU is doing is one of the more effective ways to prevent this, and thus could be considered necessary for people to

Re:

[utopianfiat (774016)]

Essentially, the government does a hefty amount to prevent consumers from being conned, and as a result, consumers are lured into a false sense of security and therefore are easier to con.

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[jimstapleton (999106)]

just as insighteful as the GP I'd think.

Sauce for the goose

[Silver Sloth (770927)]

So, in /. terms

US vs M$ Anti Trust - good thing

EU vs Hollywood Anti Trust - bad thing

Or am I missing something here?

Re:

[mgblst (80109)]

So, just because one moron says it, it is now slashdot group think? If that your logic.

Boy, you are missing a whole lot.

Re:Sauce for the goose

[Silver Sloth (770927)]

One moron is chance
Two morons is coincidence
Three morons is enemy attack, Mr Bond

I am certainly not missing the part of the /. group think that is anti EU.

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[Slaimus (697294)]

They are investigating whether the named studios removed consumer choice by only releasing in BR format. A real open format competition would would be all studios releasing movies in both formats, and letting the consumer choose. What they need to consider, however, is that Sony now owns several major studios, so there is no reason for those studios to back their competitor.

Re:EU regulators out of control

[Neil (7455)]

I disagree - the regulators are ... regulating.

They are investigating whether the manufacturers of players have engaged in anti-competitive practices when doing deals with the movie studios and other content providers. If it turns out that one or other of the consortia have strong-armed or bribed many studios into supporting their format exclusively then then there isn't a proper free market in next-gen players and the best interests of consumers are not served - consumers will choose to buy the players for the format with the most content available for it, regardless of whether that is the best format for consumers when judged on a level playing field.

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[brkello (642429)]

How is that any different than Square-Enix getting paid by Sony to only release its major titles on the PS3? The best interests of consumers is irrelevant. This is just business as usual. The EU regulators just seem like they want to draw attention themselves than actually do anything that matters.

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[stubear (130454)]

You're forgetting that Sony owns stakes in both the content and delivery systems. Any movie distributed through one of the many Sony film production studios will NEVER be released on HD-DVD, thus removing consumer choice before it even had a chance.

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[Dancindan84 (1056246)]

The issue being brought up is if they used tactics that took the decision -away- from the customer.

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[EggyToast (858951)]

The US certainly doesn't give a damn. At least some regulatory board is investigating, even if it turns out to be a red herring.

Re:EU regulators out of control

[everphilski (877346)]

Consumers have the choice of purchasing a Blu-Ray player, a HD DVD player, both or neither.

Re:EU regulators out of control

[everphilski (877346)]

Just like there is no technical reason a Nintendo game can't run on a XBOX. It's all 1's and 0's right?

But regarding the Blu-Ray and HD DVD there are storage size and other technical differences, which various studios might find useful depending on the situation.

Not to mention those pesky licensing fees. Why license both? If you do, you have to raise prices, and what consumer wants that? heh.

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[Braino420 (896819)]

It's all 1's and 0's right?

About 18% of slashdot [slashdot.org] despises you at this point.

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[tomstdenis (446163)]

Because standards are nice? Does your BT rip have sub-titles? Are they actually correct/present all the time? Is the video/audio quality consistent? etc...

I'd rather spend $9 on a movie [I buy them when they're in the bargain bins] than a day downloading a rip that MIGHT actually be done properly, only to find out I have to burn it to a disk to keep it [storing movies on a HD is annoying over the long run].

Tom

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[Aceticon (140883)]

Nowadays, there are actually sites out there rating the quality of CAM releases.

A need existed and a business model appeared to fill that need.

I bet this is not the kind of "invisible hand of the market" that the industry lobbists have in mind when demanding less regulations ...

Re:

[the_skywise (189793)]

Well if they want THAT, then why don't they fund HD-DVD or Blu-Ray or even a third party format using your tax dollars?

That way your guaranteed choice, citizen!

Re:I'm happy with my DVD still but...

[tomstdenis (446163)]

VHS beat Betamax because you could find a VCR much cheaper from one of the many COMPETING suppliers. Sony held Betamax closely and didn't want others to compete on the technology. Result: It died.

Tom

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[bobcat7677 (561727)]

This is the same reason why I think HD-DVD will eventually win out. China's HD DVD format is based on the HD-DVD standard and players can be made on the same assembly lines. This makes it much cheaper for them to produce an HD-DVD player then a BluRay. We are already starting to see this gap in shelf prices. Since all the cheap players (and really most of the players in general) come from China, this gives HD-DVD a distinct price advantage. I predict that once the HD market grows beyond home theater en

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[Steve525 (236741)]

I predict that once the HD market grows beyond home theater enthusiasts and console gamers, there will be a sharp shift in what people go for.

You'd be right, if HD-DVD survives that long.

For the market to grow beyond home theater enthusiasts and console gamers, a dominant format has to emerge. (Or dual players need to become ubiquitous and cheap enough to make the format war a mute point). Most people aren't going to invest in a new format until they know it'll be around a while.

Right now, Blu-ray seems t

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[westlake (615356)]

Its been speculated that VHS beat Betamax due to more support from the pR0n industry. Sex sells.

So does Disney. So does extended play.

Beta's superior video scarcely mattered when almost no one had a set that could display it. Blu-Ray enters a market where HDTV is taking off like a rocket.

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[Dachannien (617929)]

Do the research, find the best format, make the specs public and everyone profits.

Yeah, but how are you ever going to foist unwanted DRM on the consumer that way?

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[westlake (615356)]

This is why I support an independent media specification organization.

RCA spent enormous sums of money developing black and white and color TV for the American market. The committee crawls on all fours. The entrepreneur takes the ball and runs.

Compare the state of HD radio in the U.S. with DAB in Canada. In this border town, there are sixteen HD channels available now vs. one experimental DAB broadcast by the CBC.

PAL vs. NTSC

[Name Anonymous (850635)]

They make a big deal about this, but at the same time we still have NTSC and PAL formats to basically keep sales of certain products specific to European customers.

One of the differences between PAL and NTSC is the frame refresh rate. And that is based on the line frequency of electricity being delivered to the consumers in the various countries. So even if everyone used PAL (or NTSC), you would still have different products based on the different frames per second.

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[Ecuador (740021)]

While historically the reason behind the PAL/NTSC frame rate was the power supply frequency (50Hz/60Hz), it is not a problem with modern devices and certainly PAL devices all over the world display the same 25fps (with various methods depending on the device), not caring about the frequency of the power input - same with NTSC devices, or NTSC/PAL mode on the common multi-system devices.
The grandparent post is also not to the point. It is not really the NTSC/PAL difference the problem any more. Many DVD play

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[nattt (568106)]

Electricity hz may have been an issue in the 50s, but it is certainly no longer an issue today. Given that most of the population of the world is on the 25fps / 50hz standard, NTSC should now be a historical artifact.

Newsflash for trolls

[jeevesbond (1066726)]

The UK has been trying to manipulate the way other countries run their business with the anti-trust bullshit for a while, and nobody questions the high tariff's throw on them when they get there.. by their own government.

United Kingdom != European Commision.

Secondly, where's the evidence to back up this serious allegation? Thirdly states that make up the EU are sovereign, if companies want to sell their products there they have to abide by the rules. If not, they can take their wares and go home.