Alienware Won't Sell Consumers CableCard PCs

An anonymous reader writes "Alienware doesn't think CableCard is ready for the mass market. The Dell subsidiary is coming out with some high-end Media Center PCs but won't sell them directly to consumers because the HD-enabling CableCard 'requires the expertise of a reseller and installer.' CableCard was supposed to be the savior for Windows Media Center, which has been held back by its inability to support high-def content. Alienware made its mark selling tricked-out computers to gamers, so it's telling that the company doesn't think its traditional geeky customer can handle CableCard without professional help."

It's telling, but of what?

[bigstrat2003 (1058574)]

Is this an indicator that CableCard really is awful, and should be avoided like the spawn of Satan?

Or is this an indicator that Alienware has been completely absorbed by Dell, and has nothing left of what once made it good?

I'm gonna go with the latter here, although the former may be true as well.

Re:It's telling, but of what?

[DaHat (247651)]

I thought it was an indicator of the paranoia of the content holders that refuse to let their pretties be broadcast in hi-def without some degree of onerous protection.

I couldn't be bothered to read the whole summary..

[benhocking (724439)]

So I thought it was an indicator that people who "install... Windows ... [need] ... professional help," although maybe I'm taking part of that out of context.

Re:

[Arthur Grumbine (1086397)]

To build off of that, and in response to the summary. Maybe it's not so much that the "traditional geeky customer" "can't handle it", as that they don't want to handle it, and Alienware knows this.

Re:It's telling, but of what?

[garcia (6573)]

Is this an indicator that CableCard really is awful, and should be avoided like the spawn of Satan?

Or is this an indicator that Alienware has been completely absorbed by Dell, and has nothing left of what once made it good?

Its an indicator of both of those things including the simple fact that Dell doesn't want to deal with any customer calling up to complain about the thing not working. Regardless of how many people can actually get it to work just fine, means that a good number of people won't and will call up and waste their CSRs call time fixing problems caused by clueless owners.

Re:

[Kadin2048 (468275)]

right, but if there's anything that Alienware knows how to do it's pad in lots of extra price into a high-end PC, so can't they just pad it a little more to cover the calls?

Doubtless some MBA somewhere in their organization decided that it's not cost-effective to do that; they can just refuse to sell them to consumers without impacting their sales significantly, and not have to deal with the additional overhead.

In short: Alienware knows that their customers are chumps (I mean, anyone with a clue isn't going to pay the Alienware premium), and that CableCard isn't mainstream yet.

Or perhaps it's the old

[rolfwind (528248)]

you can't have that trick! No, no no! I said you can't have it.

What, how much money? Well, only since you ask, much to expensive for you, these are only for the "pros." There, get it? You can't have it.

(We'll make a deal in the backroom.)

Re:It's telling, but of what?

[Xichekolas (908635)]

More likely an indicator that Alienware no longer caters to it's original knowledgeable geek crowd.

I don't personally know anyone technically savvy that actually buys Alienware stuff. It's top of the line for sure, but if you are technically savvy you can build your own equivalent system for much cheaper. Alienware caters to the hardcore gamers that aren't necessarily able to correctly install a cpu/heatsink.

Before someone mods this flamebait, let me make clear that I'm not saying every Alienware customer doesn't know how to do this stuff, I'm just saying that due to the price premium it's more likely that most do not (or they would be building it themselves), and if the CableCard involves opening the machine, it would be a tech support nightmare for them to support these non-knowledgeable users.

Re:

[WhatAmIDoingHere (742870)]

"it's original knowledgeable geek crowd."

If you knew anything about computers, you'd not be shopping at Alienware. You'd be building your own or at least going to Falcon-NW or VooDooPC.

also, "it's" is a contraction meaning "it is."

Re:

[Ash Vince (602485)]

If you want to get modded as a troll less often, try describing the problems you had in more detail.

Also try swearing less as that always helps too.

Re:It's telling, but of what?

[stemcel (1074448)]

I bought an Alienware PC (I'm using it to type this post) a few years ago. I'd agree with GP, though perhaps with a slightly different choice of words.
Now, I literally would not buy from them if you payed me money to do it. It's just not worth it. "Best support in the industry"? Bull. My computer was an absolute lemon and Alienware did nothing to fix it except lead me around until my warranty expired. Plus they falsified my support records. Failing videocard? Only a few months old? Went down on the books as "Customer had loosely plugged in video card. Fixed." More like "Video card defective, about to explode." Which it did, right after my warranty expired. I've had just about every type of problem you can imagine with this machine, and Alienware has treated me like crap the whole time.
I'd never buy from them again, and the fact that Dell bought them cheapens Dell in my eyes, not the other way around.

Re:

[jotok (728554)]

They were getting good reviews in the 90s.
This was also back when people thought HampsterDance was cool, c|net was worth reading, and everyone was, in general, gaga over how nifty the internet was.

It's kind of like how in the 70s people thought vinyl suits were neat, but now we generally know better, about everything.

Re:

[mabhatter654 (561290)]

CableCard on Windows can actually lock out our PC from using cablecards as well as the actual CableCard. Weren't there reports a few months ago about that?

That would mean the PC would have to be RETURNED to the vendor after so many failed attempts.... and they're LEGALLY BOUND by silly cable rules not to tell you how to reset the PC side to try again. It's quite nasty and poorly implemented even for Microsoft standards.

Re:

[Fulcrum of Evil (560260)]

It's quite nasty and poorly implemented even for Microsoft standards.

My understanding is that most of this is on the cable companies - MS would like to implement something well, but cable doesn't care if it happens or not. This makes getting commitments rather hard.

I must be missing something

[NeverVotedBush (1041088)]

If the card even works, why can't they put together a manual that would allow users to get the things running? Do they not even work? What's the deal?

Re:I must be missing something

[Zondar (32904)]

There are many many horror stories out there from Tivo 3 and Tivo HD users about cable installers making 3, 4, 5 or more trips to get them working, or going through stacks of cards just to get two to work... The cablecard setup procedure *should* be as simple and seamless as a DirecTV authorization or a cable box authorization, but something's broken either in the process or the architecture.

Re:I must be missing something

[MBCook (132727)]

I've got a Series 3 ( fanstastic device). I've read those stories. I offered to install the cards myself. I'm smart enough to stick two cards in two slots and call the numbers on them in. Heck, TiVo included a nice guide on how to install them... for the installers. That's how frequently cable cards were used last year when the Series 3 came out.

I had some decent luck. When I called Comcast after getting my S3 the person who answered the phone actually knew what a cable card was (which was an improvement of some of the stories I've heard). I set up an appointment and a week or so later when it arrived I got my cards. They did function to a certain degree (the channel mapping worked, for example).

That said, I couldn't watch certain channels (Discovery HD being the one that really got me). They twice sent out technicians to check signal level and other things. I had to confirm everything with them, and they discussed replacing the cards and everything. That's what the third guy came out to do.

He figured it out in 30 seconds on a hunch.

I didn't have HDTV. I could watch local HD channels thanks to the must-carry rules, but they hadn't enabled HDTV on my account, so the channels (which had great strength) were black (because they weren't authorized).

This despite how I upgraded my package. "I just got an HDTV and would like HDTV service." "So this will give me all you HDTV channels that aren't premium like HBO?", "And I'll get Discovery HD, right?"

I love HDTV. I especially love how Comcast really can't screw up the picture quality like they can with all my analog channels. But they managed to mess up putting two identicle PCMCIA cards into two identical slots and clicking the appropriate box on their sales screen for the package I specifically asked for.

I got off REAL easy compared to some others. This may be due to lack of complete and utter incompetence on my local Comcast's part. This may be due to me waiting a month or two after the S3 came out to buy it (so others already went through things). This may have just been the best luck I've ever had with Comcast.

I've setup at least a half-dozen DirecTV receivers over the years. Easy a pie. There is no technical reason I couldn't do the cable card install myself. The only reason I can think of would be they wanted the service charge. Worst case scenario, it didn't work and they had to send a guy out anyway. I'd have taken that risk.

Worse than the hassles of getting the cards installed are the prices for the things. I'm being charged a few dollars a month for each card, despite the fact both are in the same device (and there are two only because Comcast isn't using multi-stream cards, I'm guessing so they can charge more). Some people don't get charged at all (at least for the first TV). Some people get charged $10 or more per month per card. From what I remember reading it isn't consistent in operators. It seems to be up to the local Comcast, Time Warner, or whatever office how they want to handle it.

Considering those problems, the worries about copying (which is why the SATA port on the S3 hasn't been active and TiVo2Go and Multi-Room Viewing don't work, stupid Cable Labs) I'm not surprised they aren't rushing to let Windows Media Center boxes work, let alone Media Center boxes built by individuals and not companies like Alienware.

Re:

[NeverVotedBush (1041088)]

Thanks for the information. My TV has a cable card slot but we don't use it. Probably never will unless they get this sorted out.

It seems like satellite is the way to go. I like my Dish Network and an IR blaster lets me tune channels, etc.

Re:

[Buran (150348)]

There is an unofficial way to get the eSATA port to work although I'm waiting until the official updates allows it to happen before I do it -- I don't want to lose data. But considering how much History Channel I watch, I hope it's soon because next month I'm getting History Channel HD in my area and I watch a lot of stuff on that channel.

However, the delay isn't CableLabs -- Tivo doesn't need their explicit approval to turn on the port.

Re:I must be missing something

[Telvin_3d (855514)]

As someone who has worked in related retail I would like to comment on why they insist on a technician doing the install. They know that many of their customers can do it themselves, make no mistake about that. However, if they even give the option a large number of their customers will take that to mean that they should be able to install it, all evidence to the contrary. A certain percentage of the population is never going to admit that they need help. And let me speak from personal experience when I say that it is almost imposable to grasp the amount of damage that can be caused by someone who thinks they know what they are doing.

From a business point of view, it is easier, cheaper and less hassle to set up everyone than it is to deal with the repercussions of the few who screw up their own installation. As one of the people who could do it myself I don't particularly like it, but if I was running the business I would make the exact same call.

Re:

[mkraft (200694)]

I can't speak for other devices, but the S3 was designed to be idiot proof. There is only 2 places to insert the cards with a big label saying which slot to use first. Basically if someone can make toast, they can install a cable card. After that the software does the rest. A screen pops up with the numbers that need to be given the the Cable Company.

It's impossible to insert the cards in backwards (they won't fit) so the worst someone could do is not figure out where to put the cards or call the wrong

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

i work as cable service technician, and i can say from much experience with them... installed/serviced probably somewhere between 250 and 300 cable cards in the system where i work, and they're awful. they do not work properly, and are very unreliable. i agree we need an open standard for third party hardware vendors, and cable card is nice in theory, however, we need something more robust, and preferably something that supports 2 way communication for interactive services.

now, i will say this, a shotty c

Re:

[Ahnteis (746045)]

Umm... cablecard is a half-hearted effort by the media companies to comply with legislation that requires them to make cable available without the need for a set-top box. If it weren't for the legislation, they'd just require the box (and charge your for it) and leave with a "Screw you and your PVR."

Re:

[Znork (31774)]

"a perfect example of why government shouldn't interfere in the free market."

Exactly! If the government didn't interfere in the free market with legislation such as 'copyright', this wouldnt be a problem.

Without such government interference, consumers and hardware vendors would simply figure that the whole conditional access crap of cable networks was too much of a pain, dump it, and simply use torrent capable media devices that accessed trackers with the whole worlds media on them. Instead of a paltry sele

Free Market?

[DingerX (847589)]

Dude, what kind of world are you in? The Cable industry is created and sustained by regulation. You can't lay cable without government approval. Why? 'Cos you have to dig up the whole town to do so. So what's wrong with the communities saying "Okay, you can dig up our town, but if you do so, it has to be in the potential interest of the whole town" (And not just the dense nucleus, where putting cable would cause maximum disruption to the community for only a portion of the population, yet maximum profit for

Re:

[Joe The Dragon (967727)]

You will still need to call the cable guy anyways and even them they don't work that well.

Re:I must be missing something

[RpiMatty (834853)]

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/ocur [maximumpc.com]
Maximum PC ran an article about trying to get a cablecard installed into an Alienware rig they got to review.
Didn't get it working. They were hoping the bugs would be worked out before consumers could buy them... guess that didn't happen.

Comcast Tech: Hey, this is ** from Comcast. I'm trying to hook up a customer's PC to our system, but I can't get it to work. Can you help me out?

From the article
Microsoft Guy: Yeah, well, we don't have our tiered tech support set up yet, but I can try to walk you through it. What are you hooking up?

CT: Well, he has two computers, one from Voodoo PC and one from Velocity Micro.

MSG: He's got both those machines?! That's $13,000 in computers!

CT: Yeah, he's reviewing them. He's an editor at Maximum PC.

MSG: Oh.... Sh*t, they're supposed to tell us before they send those things out to the press.

CT: Both these machines have internal OCUR cards, too; I've never worked with the internal cards before.

MSG: [Still unaware he's on a speakerphone] Yeah, those are really tricky. But don't tell the guy that, or he'll write it up. You're gonna start seeing Dells like that come through your system like crazy.

AlienWare

[Enderandrew (866215)]

AlienWare markets to the rich enthusiast community who enjoy gaming, but who aren't geeky enough to build their own rigs. Perhaps the same holds true for the home theater PC market. The knowledgable, geeky crowd can build their own LinuxMCE [linuxmce.com] box on the cheap with MythTV. The crowd that doesn't feel comfortable with such things wants to just buy it and have it work. If CableCard requires extensive knowledge, then perhaps they've placed themselves outside of any real niche market.

Re:

[kaiborg (801983)]

mod parent up!

Alienware isn't for computer enthusiasts, it's for spoiled kids that think they know something about computers because they can recite technical specifications off of a website. Truth is, Alienware doesn't put anything in their systems that you can't buy and install yourself for half the price.

Re:AlienWare

[vux984 (928602)]

Truth is, Alienware doesn't put anything in their systems that you can't buy and install yourself for half the price.

Not entirely true. At one point in time at least, they were one of the very few places to get a really performance oriented gamer friendly laptop.

The offerings from HP, Toshiba, IBM, etc at the time simple weren't in the same league and/or the options were extemely limited, and you usually had to compromise more. Building it yourself was pretty much not an option (and still isn't).

But as for their desktop line, yeah, it was nothing you couldn't build yourself for less. I don't disagree with you there. But that's true of every brand-name PC-builder.

Alienware isn't for computer enthusiasts,

Right. Computer enthusiasts build their own.

it's for spoiled kids that think they know something about computers because they can recite technical specifications off of a website.

Say what? No. Its for *gaming enthusiasts* who want to buy computers that are going to be good for playing games, without having to become a 'computer enthusiast' to do it.

Not everyone who wants silky smooth responsiveness in state of the art games wants to know how to swap a CPU, install an aftermarket heatsink, set memory timings, or choose a power-supply. They just want to play. Alienware satisfied that niche quite nicely.

Dell doesn't want support nightmare

[by Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone used a cablecard with their local cable? What was the support experience like? I suspect since they feel the FCC shoved it down their throat, it might not be the best. My comcast says they support it, but it requires a tech visit and you lose on-demand, pay-per-view, and the channel guide. Perhaps dell doesnt want to get in the middle of that mess.

Re:

[Kevinv (21462)]

I use 2 cable cards in my Tivo Series 3. The cards are from Time Warner. Installer came out, put them in, brought diag info via Tivo menus (or I did that part) called Time Warner, had them activated then left. My premium channels didn't work, I called support they reset the cards and everything started working.

Time Warner requires a site visit (and charges for it) but I thought it totally unnecessary, he didn't do anything difficult.

Disadvantages to cable cards: OnDemand and Pay-Per-View doesn't work (the

I had no problems with the technology...

[Scyber (539694)]

Just had issues with the cable company. First was the fact that while I could go into a cablevision store to pickup a HD cable box for no fee (besides the additional monthly cost), Cable cards can only be acquired by getting a technician sent to my house (for a $40 fee). Then when the technician shows up he only has HD cable boxes on his truck and has to return 6 hours later with a cable card. Install took 20 minutes and it worked flawlessly for the 3 months I had it.

Dude, It's A Dell (not an alienware machine)

[Bob9113 (14996)]

Alienware made its mark selling tricked-out computers to gamers, so it's telling that the company doesn't think its traditional geeky customer can handle CableCard without professional help.

Alienware made its name that way. Dell made its name by getting ultra-cheap components built in lots of a million, thus undercutting competitors on spec/price, but producing machines that are unsatisfactory to geeky customers. Frankly, if there is a person who used to buy Alienware gear who is now willing to buy a Dell,

Cable card in brief and explanations

[ThundrNeon (1078563)]

Alienware isn't selling Cablecards for a few simple reasons. 1. Installation requires your local Cable company to come out and install the card as they have to do specialized setup similiar to when you first get digital cable turned on in your place for the first time. 2. Cable card is supported in very few select large cities/metropolis. 3. Even in cities where Cable Card is supported it often cannot be installed properly and does not sync up to channels properly from the cable company. (I remember this from an older slashdot article that was reviewing HTPCs, if I can find the article I will link it) For the Record a Cable Card is a Card designed to fit in either a TV or a PC with a Cable Card slot. It acts as a Digital tuner and is designed to replace set top digital cable boxes.

Re:

[forty7 (722797)]

It's quite clear from your list of "reasons" that either you've never actually used a CableCARD, or you're a cable company shill.

By way of refutation:

1. Installation only requires your cable company to come out because they say it does. The entire installation procedure consists of:
   1. Insert card.
   2. Call in pairing information. This consists of a couple of numbers found on a screen automatically displayed by your host device.

   Any deviation from those steps is almost certainly due to t

Re:

[azrider (918631)]

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the cable techs are incompetent with respect to setting up HD equipment. The last time I had a tech actually touch any of my stuff, he ended up misconfiguring the outputs of the box such that I couldn't actually get any HD content to my TV.

When my dad had HD installed (bought a 42" LCD), the installer told him that he:
1) Needed the component video cable.
2) Could only hook the STP directly to the monitor.
This, despite the fact that the original (non-HD) STB was hooke

Blurb is somewhat incorrect

[Erwos (553607)]

The blurb makes it sound like MCE is completely incapable of receiving HD content. That's not true at all.

You can actually get HD content into your MCE system already. You've got either OTA HDTV, which is officially supported, or clear QAM (which isn't, but you can do it with HDHomeRuns (via hack)). Clear QAM is going to be officially supported soon, or so goes the current hints from Microsoft.

Of course, that's not going to get you very much compared to CableCard, which is really the problem here. But saying that MCE doesn't support HD just ain't the case.

Re:

[the_other_chewey (1119125)]

You can actually get HD content into your MCE system already.

Yeah, but what about getting it out again?

I tried to use CableCard....

[Above (100351)]

My TV supports CableCard, so I tried to use it. Before I moved I got it working. First trip, dead cable card. Second trip, tech brought an HD Box rather than a cable card. Third trip, bad cable card. Fourth trip tech brought two, one worked, one did not. The one that worked finally was set up and worked.

But of course, the Cable Company decided not to provide ANY guide info via the Cable Card interface, so the cable card showed nothing. But it worked.

For two months. When it died. They brought two more that didn't work, I told them no more.

So I moved to a new location, and a supposedly better cable company. When I got here they didn't have any, and I was told they had no eta. I called back three times, unable to even make an appointment to get one installed because "they don't have any".

Nevermind even if I wanted one I would have to take a day off work and wait for an "installer" to insert a PCMCIA card and phone in two numbers.

I am convinced of two things.

1) Cable card manufacturers, Motorola in particular, seem to make junk. Having multiple DOA cards (that are supposedly new) is just amazing in this day and age. Junk, junk and more junk.

2) Cable companies don't want to support it. Maybe #1 justifies a installer, I don't know. But I should be able to pick one up at my local store, install it myself, put the numbers in a web site and be good to go in a few minutes. I should get guide info. They don't do it because they want you to get their two way box, not because it's hard or expensive.

Cable companies didn't want cable card, so they have managed to kill it by making it as broken as possible while still offering it.
 

Re:

[rsmith-mac (639075)]

2) Cable companies don't want to support it. Maybe #1 justifies a installer, I don't know. But I should be able to pick one up at my local store, install it myself, put the numbers in a web site and be good to go in a few minutes. I should get guide info. They don't do it because they want you to get their two way box, not because it's hard or expensive.

The thing is, #2 doesn't make sense any more. The FCC is making the cable companies eat their own dog food, so to speak, as any new boxes they deploy must

Who writes this crap?

[TheNetAvenger (624455)]

CableCard was supposed to be the savior for Windows Media Center, which has been held back by its inability to support high-def content.

This is incorrect. Windows Media Center has been handling HD content 'easily' now for a few years.

Just plug in any HD tuner and it works from over the air HD Signals, and if you want HD from DirectTV or even your cable company, using their box with the IR adapter and Windows Media Center it 'changes' the channels, and records just fine at HD resolutions.

Besides the fact the

The lesser of both evils...

[thesandbender (911391)]

I don't like Microsoft. I don't like the fact that I can't install a server OS without installing a GUI component that I'll never use and that the security layers are becoming more abstract and obfuscated. But at the same time. Linux can be a pain in the farking arse. I have a MythTV setup that I've been running for almost six months. I'm connected to two Motorola DCT-6200's over firewire. For the entire time I've been running this system the firewire ports that are assigned to these turners will change. And this has happened on two different firewire controllers over a range of different kernels. MythTV won't pick this this up. It will just blindly try to fire commands out to a turner that doesn't exist and then ultimately lock up. I know ... it's opensource... fix it yourself. The problem is after 10-12 hours a day fixing other peoples problems sometimes I just want to come home and watch my favorite show without opening a terminal. And hence I'm ready to *pay* other people to fix this problem. Ultimately their time is cheaper than mine. My Mythbox is going on eBay and I'm getting Series 3 TiVO. This doesn't diminish my passion for Linux in the data center... but work is work and play is play and sometimes you just need to hang up your hate and enjoy the rest of your life.

Switched Video is killing CableCARDs

[Secrity (742221)]

I have an HD TiVo with 2 CableCARD; setting them up took three installer trips and three stacks of cards.

Yesterday I received a call from a cable company rep telling me that a large number of digital channels will cease working with my CableCARD. She read off a very long list of channels, most of them were foreign language and weird channels that I had never heard of; she also said that any newly added channels will not work with CableCARD. The only channel I cared about was NASA, and I am not going to rent a cable box jut to get NASA.

When I asked why these channels are going away, she assured me that they were not going away, i just won't be able to receive them without a cable box. When I kept pressing, she told me that they were adding Switched Video.

Re:

[the unbeliever (201915)]

two seconds on wikipedia yields this link, sir :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_card [wikipedia.org]

Lrn2srch

Re:Um

[LordKazan (558383)]

it is supposed to be the tuning and decryption module provided to consumers to allow them to use their premium digital cable services, including all HDTV (because pretty much nobody broadcasts unecrypted QAM). It was mandated a decade ago and CableLabs has figured out how to delay a decade and when they finally make it available they don't even comply to the law because it cannot really be used by anyone making home-brew systems.

Re:

[RobertLTux (260313)]

it was supposed to be a way for folks to buy %random manufacturers units and then your local cable company can load the crypto needed to unlock your channels

but the problem is that these cards have DRM that slags the card if you so much as breath hard on the card oh and setting up the card requires talking to multiple techs and CSRs

Re:

[Shados (741919)]

Its fairly simple. Alienware appeals to people who want an above average system, without wanting to know what makes an above average system. I used to be a do-it-myself guy, and honestly, if I used my usual hourly rate, the time I spent looking up parts, benchmarks, what works well together, etc ended up being a FEW times more than the markup on alienware (or any other similar enthousiast pre-built), god forbid I assemble the computer myself. So its just easier that way.

Now, not saying I'd buy an alienware

Re:

[Planesdragon (210349)]

1: What the hell is an MSO? Common etiquette is to explain terms that your audience may not understand, and industry-specific jargon is pretty much the reason that rule exists.

2: The FCC says "It must do X." YOUR industry can't seem to figure out how to make it do X. The blame doesn't lie with the FCC, it lies with your industry.

Re:

[Joe The Dragon (967727)]

Even if you are you likely will still need a cable guy / tech on come out and install it.