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Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Aug 20, 2007 07:43 PM
from the eggs-and-baskets dept.
from the eggs-and-baskets dept.
JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."
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Entertainment: NYT Confirms Movie Studios Paid to Support HD DVD 441 comments
An anonymous reader writes "The New York Times has confirmed the story that Paramount and DreamWorks Animation were paid $150 million for an exclusive HD-DVD deal that will last 18 months. 'Paramount and DreamWorks Animation declined to comment. Microsoft, the most prominent technology company supporting HD DVDs, said it could not rule out payment but said it wrote no checks. "We provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks whatsoever," said Amir Majidimehr, the head of Microsoft's consumer media technology group.'" We discussed Paramount's defection on Monday.
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Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
The studios will go wherever the biggest user base is eventually.
Parent
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Funny)
> My understanding is that HD-DVD does not do uncompressed audio
> like Blu-Ray. That alone is enough to sell me on Blu-Ray. I
> spent $20,000 on the audio system for my home entertainment
> center and I want the best quality media. I don't care if I
> can buy a HD-DVD player for $100 cheaper than a Blu-Ray --
> if the quality isn't there, it isn't of interest.
> by ResidntGeek (772730) on Tuesday August 21, @01:18AM (#20301043)
> HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.
I like how that guy spent $20,000 on audio equipment, but can't do 30 seconds of research. I really need some clients like him.
Parent
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:So which one do we support? (Score:4, Insightful)
Blu-Ray has two levels of encryption, one of them can apparently only be broken for an individual Blu-Ray disk and player.
So if you looking for something that can easily be ripped/ played on free software then you need to back HD-DVD.
Parent
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)
Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.
"Paramount's move comes weeks after Blockbuster, the DVD rental chain, said it would stock more Blu-ray discs to cope with rising consumer demand."
From the article here;
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8569e16-4f61-11dc-b485
Parent
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Insightful)
The real question is, will Blockbuster stay that way now that Paramount made the switch?
Parent
The "only" major backing? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know where you heard this, but HD-DVD has many more backers than "only" Toshiba and Microsoft. Here is a short list [wikipedia.org]. Also, keep in mind that HD-DVD is the format supported by the DVD Forum [wikipedia.org], aka the DVD consortium, the builders and maintainers of the original DVD format, which means that every company that backs DVDs is indirectly backing HD-DVD, whether they want to or not.
And while it's true that a common misconception is that Sony "owns" Blu-ray, it's also true that Sony is THE major backer and has the most at stake in Blu-ray winning the format war. The movie studios are still on the fence. Even the studios that released Blu-ray versions of movies have only released minor movies and old movies, and could switch at the drop of a hat at any time. Ditto Blockbuster video. If Blu-ray suddenly and dramatically lost the format war to HD-DVD, they wouldn't be impacted very much. (They've planned it that way, incidentally.) However, Sony sold its soul in including the Blu-ray drive in its PS3, and if the format fails, they'll be FUBAR.
Of course, I personally don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will win the format war. The next major format is not media at all; it's network delivery of content. Ten years from now, the concept of having to put a disc into a drive to watch a movie will seem quaint.
Parent
Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The format war needs to end, either through surrender (unlikely) or through dual-format players becoming available.
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Curse of the Combo Disc (Score:4, Informative)
Because HD-DVD ships you combo discs that play in both normal DVD players and HD-DVD players - and you get to pay extra for the priviledge.
As a bonus, sometimes the layers seperate and destroy the disc 300 had that issue. It's not common though, just like the Blu-Ray layer seperation issue was in small batches. Still, paying extra for discs where you only want the HD content is really annoying.
Parent
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
I held off on LaserDisc way before the DVD even began development, because I was certain that within a few years someone would come out with a format that put LaserDisc quality on something the size of a CD. That was a good decision. However, I'm actually pretty happy with DVD. Yeah, I can see artifacts on my 100" projector, but I don't have any problems ignoring them and just watching the movie.
I'll get an HD player at some point but it won't bother me in the least if it's 5 or 10 years from now. I probably won't bother until I can buy an HD-R drive for my computer for $50.
Parent
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
Many, many films today use digital color correction or digital effects at 2k (2048x1080p) resolution. Major films, including Mann's Collateral and Miami Vice, Episode III, and others are 'filmed' digitally at 2k resolution with great success.
Go see a digital cinema. It is shockingly better - sharper, no gate jitter, and no noise. 2K is more than adequete.
Parent
Nowhere near 20MP, not even 10. Not even 2. (Score:4, Informative)
Plus when projected, the actual resolution of film as seen off the silver screen is very, very low. This is simply because running at 24 fps through a projector and being stopped for a brief moment it is on screen, the frame is never completely flat or motionless. Plus the frame is tiny and the much larger magnification needed compared to a digital projector's CCD/whatever brings with it a lot of unsharpness due to lens flaws. Not to mention the positive film you see in the theater is a 3rd or 4th generation copy from the original negative.
This is why even 2K digital scans in the theater are a lot sharper than any project 35mm/24fps film will ever be. Not to mention far less black time in between frames.
Back to HD-DVD:
If you have a computer or laptop capable of playing it back and an HDTV with HDMI or DVI input (or a converter plug) you should try a downloaded HD rip. (search for "1080p" on any torrent site) I only have a 37" 720p TV with a rather good upscaling HDMI DVD player. But even at just 720p, downloaded 4 mb/sec x264 movies ripped from BR/HDVD played back on this TV using DVI from my MacBook Pro look a lot better than any upscaled DVDs.
I also can't wait for Dolby TrueHD audio from the actual discs!
That said, a far cheaper upgrade would have been h.264 on the same 9GB disk. No room for TrueHD audio, but any feature film would have fit at a high enough bitrate to put any DVD to shame.
Parent
Microsoft 'bribed' the two into dropping Blueray (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (Score:5, Interesting)
With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources [kotaku.com]., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.
Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined. [deadlineho...ddaily.com]
I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.
Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
On another note... Holy cow. I just looked at 1080p projectors. I am NOT buying another TV. The Optoma HD80 1080p projector with a ceiling mount (I'd run the cables professional-quality myself) is my new goal. Run one HDMI cable, use a fully HDMI24 compliant HDMI switch for four sources, and you have yourself a hell of a system that 3 years ago would've cost $30,000 but today is under $3
Money Talks (Score:5, Informative)
Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.
- js.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm [tvpredictions.com]Hey, Toshiba! (Score:4, Funny)
They said they want their market disruption techniques back.
Baby pay twice *sings* (Score:5, Insightful)
Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!
What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap
Sure, keep changing things, that will win loyalty. (Score:5, Insightful)
Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.
As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.
Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.
As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.
It is nowhere near over yet. (Score:3, Insightful)
It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.
Any hopes of having this it legal . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Are we there yet? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.
Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.
It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.
Cheers,
b&
The only way to win is not to play (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm backing whoever defeats DRM (Score:3, Interesting)
Weaker DRM in HD-DVD (Score:4, Interesting)
As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.
This is big as Paramount is the biggest studio (Score:5, Informative)
January 1-August 19, 2007
Overall Gross: $6.585 billion
Rank Distributor Market
Share Total
Gross* Movies
Tracked 2007
Movies**
1 Paramount 18.1% $1,189.5 15 11
2 Warner Bros. 14.8% $974.8 23 13
3 Buena Vista 14.1% $930.6 16 8
4 Sony / Columbia 14.0% $924.6 19 16
5 Universal 11.3% $745.0 13 11
6 20th Century Fox 10.9% $719.9 17 9
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/ [boxofficemojo.com]
The Real Winner is Neither BluRay or HD-DVD (Score:4, Insightful)
These competing standards (that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) are both losers. When I go buy movies, I still buy DVDs (despite having an HD TV for 3+ years). Know why? Because it plays in my player.
Eventually, a common player will be affordable for both HD and Blu. At that point, do you know who will win my business? That's right... Netflix. With the industry proving to me that ownership is dumb... I've gone from buying 3-5 DVDs a month to 1 every three months. When I get an upgraded player, I don't expect that there will ever be a movie that I'll want to own.
Am I wrong, or has the format "war" done nothing but alienated consumers and shown that companies are too egotistical to work together to create standards that are actually beneficial to the end users... and for that, I trust them as far as I can throw them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What's the Motive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, do you really think there will be another physical format after this? I'd be willing to bet that by the time this format war is finished and another one ready to begin, digital distribution will be quite ubiquitous.
Parent
No - the Beginning.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store, and Blockbuster was only going to offer Blu-Ray in store.
Now, with Paramount and Dreamworks the equation has changed. Blu-Ray still has really significant exclusives in Fox, Disney, and Sony (Star Wars/Pixar/Spider Man!). But, it will take much longer for Blu-Ray to win, if it can eventually. This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming tehre was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.
The rumor [deadlineho...ddaily.com] is that Microsoft paid Paramount $50M, and Dreamworks $100M, to make this switch (until now they had been neutral). Why would Microsoft do this? Pretty simple, if consumers are confused about which format to buy they are more likley just to download HD content from the only provider currently sellign HD content online. That provider is Microsoft...
Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.
Parent
What if there was a war, and nobody came... (Score:5, Insightful)
What if there was a war, and nobody came. [frogcircus.org]
The High Def format war seems more like a clown pie fight to me. Neither side is offering me anything that I want.
The technology is so laden with anti-customer "features" that, frankly, I hope the both lose. I think this is a realistic possibility as downloadable HD content becomes commonly available, which you hit on later in your post.
Peter
Parent
Re:No - the Beginning.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Not Nintendo (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that blu ray has all that much in the way of momentum.
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:4, Insightful)
Since both HD-DVD and Blueray streams have maximum bitrates of 18Mbps (nearly twice DVD's 1X spec), HD-DVD's 15GB is already (though barely) sufficient to store a 2h movie at the maximum allowed bitrate. From what I read though, it seems most HD movies (both HD-DVD and Blueray) are encoded at rates in the area of 5-6Mbps so there should be plenty of space left for extras even on HD-DVD - at current typical rates, HD-DVD would be good for 5-7 hours, plenty long enough for any of the LotR extended editions. I personally do not care which one wins as long as I can watch stuff in full HD without flipping discs half-way.
HD-DVD's 15GB capacity is sufficient for its primary purpose: cost-efficient HD movie distribution. Worst case, HD-DVD specs do allow for dual-layer discs should some titles (or disc writers) require extra space. For Joe Sixpack (at least those who do not have a PS3), the format war is likely to remain irrelevant until stand-alone players drop below $200. After this point, things could snowball towards HD-DVD - HD-DVD will almost certainly get there first, possibly this year.
Parent
Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=273
ht
http://www.insert25.com/playst
htt
I could go on, but I don't need to. It says more that http://hdtvmagazine.com/ [hdtvmagazine.com] uses the PS3 as their "reference" player for BluRay. So does the fact that http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ [soundandvisionmag.com] used it as well.
Parent
Re:Typical Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't call blu-ray the new betamax just yet, with Blockbuster already announcing they're carrying only blu-ray titles [forbes.com] primarily due to PS3 sales.
But you have a point. Sony doesn't have a great history of making formats that eventually become the standard. Minidisc? DAT? UMD movies [arstechnica.com]? If I was Sony I'd practically give away Blu-ray players just to get them out there, then in a year or two once it becomes a standard re-coop their costs in license fees. Microsoft has been doing this for years with the Xbox and Xbox360 [businessweek.com] but it was necessary to make them a major player in the console wars and at times Xbox has had the most sales [computeran...ogames.com].
Parent