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Three MythTV Linux Distros Compared

Posted by Zonk on Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:00 PM
from the penguins-put-on-a-show dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Linux.com has a comparison article up looking at three MythTV-focused Linux distributions. The piece looks at Mythdora, Mythbuntu, and KnoppMyth, with an eye towards ease of installation and the actual utility of the install. From the article: 'For regular system maintenance, KnoppMyth simply isn't in the same ballpark as MythBuntu and MythDora. The live CD heritage of Knoppix means you cannot update individual packages, which is fine if you like that, but for an always-on system like a MythTV back end, I'd prefer flexibility and configurability of a mainline distro. When all is said and done, if I were building my TiVo replacement today, I would do it with MythDora. MythBuntu shows a lot of promise, and I will give the final 7.10 release another look (in part because I run Ubuntu on my desktop machines), but it isn't ready yet.'" Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by SourceForge.
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  • MythDora? (Score:5, Funny)

    by hal2814 (725639) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:07PM (#20386375)
    MythSwiper, no MythSwiping!

    Oh man...
    • some while back a totally different aproach then Tivo or the newer DVRS came out and as far as I can see. died. All the systems used a software based on a package called MyIHome. Brands included Neuston, Mumistu, IODATA/AVEL, and, on the Macintosh side Elgato's iHome. All of these are no longer on the market. Some had built in DVD drives, some USB for addition of external hard drives... a few had wireless.
      These boxes connect to your local network,and stream various media files to your TV. You are limi
    • by Anonymous Coward
      With the Linux port [xboxmediacenter.com] of XBMC [wikipedia.org] underway, and very usable at this stage, Myth will have serious competition soon for (currently) its non-PVR functionality. The linux port of XBMC is completely OpenGL 2.0 optimized. Currently, in terms of UI and user friendliness, there's very little that compares to XBMC.
    • "MythSwiper, no MythSwiping!

      Oh man..."

      Awsome!

      Too bad nerds don't usually breed so nobody here will get it.

  • MythTV for PS3 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DrXym (126579) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:08PM (#20386389)
    The PS3 can run Linux but so far it's been regular Linux distributions. MythTV sounds like a natural fit for a device which has practically everything in place to be a kickass multimedia console. It would be cool to see a MythTV dist for the PS3 that boots straight into the UI and also works with any plugged in USB devices like TV tuners.
    • any tuner device supported by linux should be usable with mythtv so if you find a USB tuner with linux support you can use it

      (Watching HDTV on mythtv trunk on fc7 right now)
      • Re:MythTV for PS3 (Score:5, Informative)

        by tji (74570) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:48PM (#20387081)
        > any tuner device supported by linux should be usable with mythtv so if you find a USB tuner with linux support you can use it

        MythTV is modular. You do the tuning/recording/processing on the backend, which talks to the frontend (display) via the network. These functions can be on the same box, but with the PS3 as a frontend, you would want a separate backend.

        http://linuxtv.org/ [linuxtv.org] has info on supported devices. My tuner of choice is the HDHomeRun, a network based dual HD tuner.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          HDHomeRun looks very promising. I'm having one delivered to my door today, can't wait to play with it.
    • I think the PS3 locks down most of the processing power when you boot it into something other than the PS3 OS. Trying to watch a video on my friends ubuntu install on his ps3 was terrible, like 3 or 4 fps.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        This is mostly because there are no accelerated video drivers for Linux on PS3. CPU power should be mostly there I'd imagine though...
      • I've installed VideoLan on a PS3 and the framerate is acceptable.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Not true. Most of the processing power is still there. Just no accelerated graphics. The CELL should be enough to process it, the code hasn't been written yet. If you're watching a video on there you're just using the 3.2GHz PPC with a frame buffer. You're not using any of the SPU/SPE's. I think work is being done for this but it will take time.
      • Re:MythTV for PS3 (Score:4, Informative)

        by tji (74570) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:46PM (#20387049)
        > The problem is I don't think there are any USB TV capture devices that work in MythTV.

        The PS3 would make a good MythTV frontend (display) system. You're better off using a Linux box as the backend. That way you can still use the PS3 as a game system or Blue-Ray DVD player -- rather than leaving it in Linux mode all the time to record programs. As for tuners. the HDHomeRun is a good network-based HD tuner option.

        > I have been using MythTV for something like 4 years now just because there isn't anything as good but I really hate it. It's so freaking slow and buggy. I mean once you have hundreds of recorded shows the thing just slows to a crawl. It takes forever just to delete a program. This all seems totally ridiculous considering the relatively tiny amount of data it is managing. Then there are the bugs like when it gets into some sort of bad state and the menus don't work (you can open the menu but can't select anything). Very poorly written piece of software if you ask me.

        It's hard to say what the issue is from that description.

        - Slow performance: All the standard Linux tuning applies. MythTV uses MySQL extensively, so tuning that performance is important.
        - Slow Delete: File system choice is important. ext* is very slow in deleting files. I use JFS because it deletes almost instantly. In newer MythTV versions, there is an option to do deletes in smaller chunks to avoid this problem on ext* systems.
        - I haven't seen bugs like those you described. I use 0.20.1, and it works well. MythTV is not ideal.. setup is difficult, as is configuration.. The menu systems could use some major improvements and configurability. It's definitely the worst DVR going, except for everything else.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            This is a minor tuning issue. Admittedly it's one that end users should not ever be exposed to. However it is still pretty simple to fix. You just need to let mysql be more greedy with memory.
  • Recently the free listings provider for north america (TMS' Zap2it) annouced they will be going offline on Sept 1 - a replacement ($5/month for now, hopefully reducing to $20/year in the future - schedulesdirect.org) is available but only the latest release .20.2 of stable (And -fixes and trunk in snv naturally) support using it.

    If you download one of these distros make sure they have updated it with a .20.2 (post mythfilldatabase scheduling fix) otherwise you will not be able to get north american listings.
    • Your facts are kinda misleading. True, the latest 20.2 release incorporates direct support for the new schedulesdirect.org program listing. However, older versions can be 'retrofitted' by using/updating just the xmltv application. The latest xmltv 0.5.48 will work with the new schedulesdirect site. You can then feed that into your existing mythfilldatabase. This solution might work for those unable/unwilling to upgrade their mythtv version. Personally, I've gone to 20.2 and the upgrade was pretty seamless.
      • According to this ubuntu bug report [launchpad.net] the ABI changed along with the schedules direct change, so you do need to update everything, not just one module. At least that's how I read it - I may be wrong.
        • you read that right
        • The ABI change is because the plugins always to be recomplied to match a new version. My point is that for those unable/unwilling to upgrade to the latest, some sort of 'yum update xmltv' or 'apt-get update xmltv' or manual tar ball installation from xmltv.org should be a temporary solution without having to update/upgrade the rest of the system.
        • I haven't. However, the article mentions two other distros which may be much easier than the live distro. The problem with xmltv is that it is Perl and its Perl dependency hell. I haven't had to use it in years, but its an option for some. Even as a stop gap - you could run it on another machine (windows box too) to produce the daily xml file, copy that over to your myth box, and run mythfilldatabase. Its a stop gap. Also, remember you that you get about 14 days of schedule information. So on Sep 1, you sho
    • save yourself a few days/weeks with:

      mythfilldatabase --max-days 14
      that'll give you 14 days until you have to update. pick your own number, but the further you go into the future the more info is going to be missing.
    • Can't you just grab listings from tv.yahoo.com ?

  • The hamsters are having trouble keeping up.
  • Upside (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Realistic_Dragon (655151) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:22PM (#20386627) Homepage
    The good thing about being forced to get a TV is that a condition of me doing so was that I get to install a Myth TV setup. I'm thinking satellite + cable + OTA inputs to a small cluster in the basement, new fibre runs all over the house, speakers in every wall, projectors in hidden drop down ceiling mounts, touch screen controls in every room, integration of every form of entertainment known to man and a user interface that delights and astounds.

    By the time I'm finished, of course, it'll be obsolete and I shall have to start over, just like the fourth bridge paint job. Perpetual geeking if you like.
  • by Mike Gleason (86683) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:27PM (#20386697) Homepage
    There's been some talk about getting a subscription service running for MythTV users; if I recall, the goal was to get it going for $5/month.

    Here's an option that could be considered: buy a BeyondTV license from Snapstream, then use your username and password along with a little reverse engineering to login legally to their guide service. BeyondTV's guide data is included with your purchase -- no monthly fees. Currently it costs $70, so after a year it would have paid for itself at the proposed $5/month.

    That said, I should say I'm pretty pleased with the actual BeyondTV software, even though it is Windows-based. I spent about 2 weeks trying to get Myth (MythDora) and Freevo to work at all on a pretty vanilla new Dell PC with new hardware reported to be compatible. I downloaded BTV just to see if the hardware was to blame, and after a grand total of 15 minutes, I had a working PVR with multiple tuners. The software is customizable as well, so I can do nightly batch processing like I was planning to do with the Linux box, although the included Xvid transcoding works automatically if you want to do that.
  • by halfelven (207781) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:29PM (#20386721)
    I don't see what's the point of building a dedicated distro for MythTV. Why reinvent the wheel? Why not use a well-known, established distribution, and just create a software repository with MythTV?
    A dedicated distro may be here today, gone tomorrow, if it doesn't build a large enough community. That's not what I expect from the operating system that I'm gonna use on the MythTV server that I will build next month.

    I think I'm just going to use CentOS or Ubuntu (the LTS edition - long-term support) and pull MythTV from one of the popular repositories.
    • by jma05 (897351) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:39PM (#20386929)
      > I think I'm just going to use CentOS or Ubuntu (the LTS edition - long-term support) and pull MythTV from one of the popular repositories.

      Because many of us already tried that and couldn't get it to work. MythTV is one of the worst software I had to set up. It is just wrong to expect an end user for a PVR to even know what a database is, let alone having to set it up and deal with the error messages, even if it something popular such as MySQL. MythTV just needs to be as easy as the commercial packages to setup.
      • Oh, I see.

        Well, I agree that MythTV per se is a bit dorky, and it might be a chore for the non-technical user (or at least the user not too familiar with Linux) to install and configure. Yes, they do need to make the install / config process easier. And yes, I think I see now the point of using a dedicated distro.

        I had no problems with the setup - but then I'm fairly familiar with the OS.

        Hm, still, the average enthusiast should not find it too difficult. Sometimes the hardware might get tricky, but that's a
    • KnoppMyth has been around for four years http://www.mysettopbox.tv/CHANGELOG.txt/ [mysettopbox.tv]. A glance at the CentOS site shows it was first copywritten in 2004. When Ubuntu was launch in October of 2004, KnoppMyth was already a year old. The community is large and very active. I'll stop producing releases when my keyboard is pulled from my cold dead hands.

      Once I can actually read the article, I'll comment in full. But to state that one cannot upgrade software in KnoppMyth is dead wrong.

      Regards,

      Cecil
  • by dfdashh (1060546) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:34PM (#20386837)
    I've been using my MythTV box as my primary media center for over a year and a half now. While I love to make the occasional configuration changes to meet the ever-changing needs of my family, I NEVER update unless I have a very, very good reason. Why? Because at this point I don't want a weekend troubleshooting session because I triggered incompatibilities. I guess that is just me being paranoid, though. I've never had drastic problems with Myth, but I can also attribute that to the fact that I wrote up my requirements, built the machine to them, and left it that way. No surprises! So there are some tradeoffs when using a media distribution like KnoppMyth to build out your MythTV, but sometimes they are really blessings in disguise.
    • Fully agree. That's the best way. Build a dedicated machine, upgrade MythTV only when absolutely necessary. Like a DIY appliance.
  • MythTV Box (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CopaceticOpus (965603) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @12:53PM (#20387169)
    Does anyone sell a pre-built, pre-configured MythTV box? I personally have no interest in dealing with the quirks of setting one up, but I'd like to run one. Here's what I'd look for:
    • Packaged in the smallest possible, living-room friendly case
    • Runs quietly, with good power and heat management
    • Plays files off a USB drive and/or over ethernet
    • Online zero-effort software updates
    • Shouldn't cost a ton more than the cost of the required hardware

    If someone does this right I'd think they could have quite a hit on their hands.
  • by monkeyboythom (796957) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @01:02PM (#20387309)

    I'm currently trying to do what the distro should be doing for me; installing layer and application at a time.

    Of course, I'm also trying to do this on a system put together from more recent hardware, the m-atx Gigabyte platform GA-MA69GM-S2H Socket which uses AM2 and the AMD 690G Northbridge. And a USB connected ATSC HDTV card.

    I'm finding it's a snap to install Ubuntu, LAMP, and MythTV but almost impossible to get any further than configuration. And that is the problem. I can install WinXP and SageTV and have all these components work right now. So it still is the main problem for Linux and any distro - hardware support.

    Yes, the larger question still is open versus restricted driver support. But at the end of the day, especially the present day like tonight, I'd rather have my hardware recognize a restricted driver and install it seamlessly than having the "freedom" of an open source driver. If move to open from a restricted, then shouldn't that be the incentive for hardware manufactures to provide these drivers?

  • Books on MythTV (Score:3, Informative)

    by louiebeth (989447) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @01:26PM (#20387715)
    I know a book just came out on MythTV: Practical MythTV (http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=1 0245 [apress.com]) Is it any good? Anybody read it?
  • Some comparision.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by cesman (74566) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @03:22PM (#20389455) Homepage
    I started KnoppMyth over 4 years ago, so I'm biased.

    The comparison seemed rather dull and uninformed. The installation, default theme and the "running" systems are compared. In the end, it comes to "convenience". This is where the author's lack of information really shines.

    To stated that one cannot install additional software on KnoppMyth is wrong. You can install a .deb or install from source. The problem comes in if you want to auto upgrade to the next release (BTW: Neither of the other options supports an auto upgrade functions. MythDora is working on it however.). Whatever additional packages you installed, you'll have to reinstall (R6 will address this). But what do you need to install (other than perhaps pineapple and some codecs ;)? And if you read tjc's guide to using the backup and restore, you'll only have to install those once.

    In addition to MythTV and it's official plugins KnoppMyth includes mplayer, xine, webmin (how is that for conveniences?), rrd (hit Apache and see how your system as been performing, seems pretty convenient to me), MythWebFlash, irblaster support and so much more.

    In addition to the official themes, we also include most if not all of "Juski's" http://juski.co.uk/ [juski.co.uk]themes are included as well. So while the author didn't like Titivillus, there is nothing stopping him or any user from using any theme. Got an ipod? What to take that show with you? Myth2ipod http://www.myth2ipod.com/ [myth2ipod.com]is include in KnoppMyth. Or stream it with MythStreamTV.

    Both NFS and Samba are included and configured. All one has to do is start the daemons. Got an nvidia based video adapter? Guess what is automatically installed on first boot? Navigate with a keyboard? KnoppMyth includes out the box support for multiple remotes. Guess which distro was the first to officially support the popular Hauppauge PVR line of hardware MPEG tuners?

    The ideal behind KnoppMyth is to make it easy to get a Linux/MythTV powered PVR is a quick and easy manner. Some of you already get this... Think appliance. KnoppMyth is into it's fifth year and we'll continue to improve and develop it. Much thanks to member of the community for the improvements, ideals and support. I do wish MythDora and MythBuntu well, however as I see it... They are threading on ground already paved.

    Regards,

    Cecil
    • mythtv is just linux softwre - those distros are just rolls of their parent distros with mythtv bundled and tuned as it doesn't normally come bundled.

      if you're going to watch HD it's best to compile it yourself so it can do the most cpu optimizations (make sure to enable them via the appropriate configure flag)
      • How much does it really matter to use compiler optimizations for HD? Do you have any numbers, benchmarks, etc.?

        Just curious.
        • it matters massively. HD is MPEG2 at 1920x1080. I am using an Athlon 2500+ and offloading some of the MPEG2 decode work to a geforce 6200 via XvMC (unfortunately ATI's drivers don't have XvMC) and i still use 50% CPU when watching HD. With CPU opts turned off i bet you i couldn't watch HD (no i'm not doing a recompile of mythtv and 10 recordsing tonight to find out)
              • Your honour, I cite the precidents set in RUBBER v GLUE and POT v KETTLE, and request that the poster be beaten about the head and shoulders with a large, freshwater fish.
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          How much does it really matter to use compiler optimizations for HD? Do you have any numbers, benchmarks, etc.?

          The big ones, but also enabled in many pre-compiled packages:
          * cmov, about 10% (supported by Pentium Pro and later, but not some VIA processors)
          * enabling MMX & SSE, about 10-15%

          Total you can add about 30-35% with full optimization on a P4, vs. compiling for a Pentium Pro, which is the default. These numbers are somewhat old, but there is no reason to think they have changed app
    • I honestly thought that when one said,"Get MythTV." it would be that simple. Why does it surprise me that there is more than one distro, just like the rest of Linux?

      New Slogans

      • Linux, its just too forking much.
      • Forked.com - It's not Porno!
      • If you need help, RTFM - Read the Forking Manual, you forking noob.
      • Linux Geeks, they couldn't get forked if their sisters were giving it away.

      Yes, I realize, a distro != fork, but now-a-days with the vast differences, it may almost amount to one.

    • by Abcd1234 (188840) on Tuesday August 28 2007, @04:07PM (#20390125) Homepage
      To my surprise, XBMC completely blows MythTV out of the water.

      Weird, I had no idea you could plug a video capture card into an XBox, let alone set up XBMC to use it to record TV. Got any links?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I dunno, but I was using xbmc for some years and its far from perfect, even just for a media center.

      - It doesnt allow you to decode hi def video.
      - Contrary to what you claim, it only outputs at 480i.
      - It's hard to update since it's illegal to distribute in binary form, so you're stuck to deal with l33t forums and such to get one, or find the MS compiler and compile the sources (on windows).
      - There is alot of formats it doesnt support, like ogg, matroska video, vob subtitles, quicktime, mp4..etc
      - For some re