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News On Laptops For Education

Posted by kdawson on Tue Oct 30, 2007 02:59 PM
from the battle-of-the-cheap-and-rugged dept.
Education Businesses Mandriva Software Linux
AdamWill notes a Mandriva press release with the news that the government of Nigeria has selected Intel-powered classmate PCs running Mandriva Linux for educational use in a nationwide pilot. About 17,000 machines will be involved at first. We can only wonder at the maneuvering and negotiations that went on with the OLPC project. The latter had its first announced order for 100,000 XO machines, from Uruguay, with a potential for 400,000 over time. The bigger news out of OLPC is that Microsoft is porting XP to the platform, and chairman Nicholas Negroponte says that's fine with him: "It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."
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Submission: Nigerian education selects Intel-powered Classmate by AdamWill (604569)
[+] Linux: Mandriva's Open Letter To Steve Ballmer 357 comments
An anonymous reader writes "An entry on the Mandriva Blog, written by Mandriva CEO François Bancilhon, says that the Nigerian government, after ordering thousands of Classmate PCs with Mandriva Linux installed, has suddenly decided that they will instead install Windows. They will pay for the pre-loaded Mandriva Linux on the low-cost computing devices intended for children in the developing world, but immmediately replace the OS. The blog doesn't quite use the 'B' word but does suggest that this was not a decision that the Nigerian government made on its own."
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  • I'll probably get mod'ed flamebait or something, but I think it's really telling that Microsoft isn't attempting to create a software load based on Windows Vista as the starting point. And they have already stopped retailing XP... and though they prolonged XP OEM sales, it's still set to be cut off in a relatively short time.

    Frankly, I think they'd have better luck bringing back Windows98 to put on the OLPC/XO machine. I can't begin to imagine how badly it would perform, but judging from some of the WinXP

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MikeUW (999162)
      Add to this the problem that XP on a low cost laptop becomes the initial hardware price, plus $X for the OS, plus $Y for useful productivity software (assuming MS pushes that too), plus $Z for who knows what else. I know there's no reason anyone would be forced to buy extra software just because their machine runs Windows, but you have to admit that it helps reinforce the mindset that software should be purchased from a company like MS. Try to imagine that mindset combined with the perspective of new user

    • Re:Why not Vista?? (Score:5, Funny)

      by BUL2294 (1081735) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:06PM (#21175831)
      Are you serious? Even Microsoft knows better than to submit 3rd-world kids to "the wow is now..."

      Check the specs from http://www.classmatepc.com/ [classmatepc.com] ... 900Mhz, 0 L2 (prominently featured on the page for some reason), 256MB RAM, 1 or 2GB flash, 800x480 screen. Somehow the 2GB version incredibly manages to fit XP Pro (why Pro?) and MS-Office.

      Vista would look at this configuration and show a screen of Bill Gates laughing at the user. Hell I doubt even M$ could trim Vista down enough to run in such a configuration, given the bloated piece of crap Vista is. (I wonder what Vista's "experience rating" would be--0.2?)
    • I'm guessing that XP already has some drivers and changes that XO needs that 98 doesn't and that Vista is so heavy to run that it would be more work to take it all out then to just use XP. The funny thing is that they do have Windows CE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce [wikipedia.org] that is made for this kind of thing. The only reason I would guess they are not using that is because it looks "too 90's" or something.
    • Putting Win98 on anything in this day and age is one of the worst possible things you could do, and even Sony wouldn't be dumb enough to pull Win9x from the grave. It's DOS-based, insecure and unstable (whose reputation still hangs over Windows to this day) and a dead end as far as OSs are concerned. Win2k (or NT5 if you want to think of it like that) would be a much better choice, as I believe it fits their specs well enough (or is at least a good enough starting point)

    • Re:Why not Vista?? (Score:4, Informative)

      by DragonWriter (970822) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:18PM (#21175991)

      It was the purpose that was formulated followed by a selection of an OS which just as easily could have been BSD or even Windows if it was best-suited.


      Part of the requirement had to do with licensing, so barring Microsoft releasing their OS under an open-source license, it couldn't have been Windows. Microsoft, IIRC, tried to get to be the OS supplier, and didn't start bad-mouthing the OLPC project until they were rejected based on licensing terms.

      It could have been BSD, though.
    • Why not 2K + (if they really, really, really must) ClearType? In fact, if they ported the 2K kernel and claimed that it was XP, who'd know the difference?
    • I'd think that if Microsoft wanted something to run on the OLPC the best candidate from their current lineup would be Windows CE (or whatever that is called nowadays). It is supposed to be lightweight an so should fit the hardware nicely. Software would have to be ported for it but they might as well face the fact that OLPC is not made nor meant to run Office & friends...

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jollyreaper (513215)

      I'll probably get mod'ed flamebait or something, but I think it's really telling that Microsoft isn't attempting to create a software load based on Windows Vista as the starting point. And they have already stopped retailing XP... and though they prolonged XP OEM sales, it's still set to be cut off in a relatively short time.

      You're not serious, are you? I was all set to post a joke about "Yeah, I'm not impressed; port Vista, then I'll be impressed." These laptops are severely underpowered by today's standards; bear in mind that today's software is bloated and requires such overpowering. The OLPC machines are more like PDA's on steroids than laptops as we think of them -- but that's a good thing, because today's PDA's are pretty powerful. I have a Palm Tungsten that's great for word processing if I hook it up to the external IR

  • I ask for your advice (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2007, @02:55PM (#21175643)
    I just got an email from son of the former Education Minister of Nigeria.
    In the mail he states that he has recently acquired 17000 classmate laptops
    (seventeen thousand US laptops) and he is trying to get them out of the country.
    He is asking for my assistance and I shall be rewarded greatly (5000 laptops).
    To cover up the expenses he is asking me to send five Packard Bell notebooks
    with Windows Vista Home Premium.

    What should I do? Is this some kind of scam?

    • I'd be carefull if it didn't have any spelling errors in the mail body. Legit offers of that types are recognized by at least 3 typos or grammatical errors/paragraph.

    • To cover up the expenses he is asking me to send five Packard Bell notebooks
      with Windows Vista Home Premium.

      What should I do? Is this some kind of scam?
      Totally a scam. You were actually thinking of sending him Packard Smell notebooks? What a jerk.
  • The OLPC is suppost to be completely open and user maintainable. But the wireless drivers are blobs. From the OLPC "Core principles"

    There is no inherent external dependency in being able to localize software into their language, fix the software to remove bugs, and repurpose the software to fit their needs. Nor is there any restriction in regard to redistribution; OLPC cannot know and should not control how the tools we create will be re-purposed in the future.

    I like the project, but I wish they could stick to their core principle. I would really like a completely open computer, especially such a cool looking, low power, rugged laptop.

    • Re:OLPC open? (Score:4, Informative)

      by samkass (174571) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:47PM (#21176317) Homepage Journal
      The "open" comment quoted in the summary kind of implies that Microsoft is working on a port on a level playing field with the "open" folks. If you actually read the article, though, you find that the OLPC folks are actively working with Microsoft, sending them first-run hardware, and otherwise favoring Microsoft in order to get XP onto their system. That's not just "letting it be open", it's actively working towards getting a more closed OS onto the system.

      Also, I vaguely recall a rumor that Apple offered MacOS X for free and it was declined, so I'm not entirely clear on OLPC's motives here.
    • Not true, the wireless card has a processor on it, that runs a program that no source is provided for. However the specification to interact with the card is open. If Marvel provided the chipset with the firmware set in ROM on the chipset mask would that offend you as well.

      In the same way my laser printer has a processor that takes PCL and turns it into dots on the page. I don't have or need the source code for that, and my printer is just as open.

      I really don't understand the obsession with demanding that

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by FranTaylor (164577)
        Ironically enough, rms got the idea for free software when he couldn't get at the source code to the printer in his lab.

        I do agree with you, though. You can think of the blob as some microcode for controlling the hardware. It could have been integrated into the hardware, but it would be slower and harder to work with. If it were in the hardware, nobody would be clamoring for its source. If we are really paranoid about drivers, perhaps they too could be boxed-in like SELinux does with applications.

        Given
    • But is the core purpose of the OLPC to build open laptops or to build inexpensive laptops? Remember, they chose Linux because it was inexpensive. Having open drivers would certainly be nice, but they have deadlines to meet, and they probably figure that, if the drivers work for their intended purpose, then their job is done.

      Besides, if you want open drivers, then you're free to write them yourself and make them available.
      • On the olpc wiki site, there is a page called "Core principles" (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Core_principles/lang-en). This page lists five "principles" that, judging from the page titles seem to be the core principles of the project. The fifth "core principle" is titled "Free and Open Source", from wich I got my quote. Maybe they should create a page called "things that would also be nice" and put "Free and Open Source" on that page. My opinion is that the page of core principles is actually correct, but th

    • Re:OLPC open? (Score:5, Informative)

      by iabervon (1971) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @04:35PM (#21176889) Homepage Journal
      The wifi driver is GPL (and included in the mainline linux kernel already). The wireless chip firmware is the proprietary part. But, of course, that's more open than most of the chips in the system, which can't be changed in the field at all, and when can't be modified without a chip fab. People are actually working on reverse-engineering the chip specs (it looks like an ARM920T with a radio peripheral), but it's perfectly reasonable to consider the chip as a device with a detailed specification [laptop.org] that has a very long, particular, and incomprehensible (but carefully documented) startup sequence.

  • I have a bad feeling about this (Score:5, Funny)

    by eln (21727) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:01PM (#21175749) Homepage
    I don't know if I like how this project is being rolled out. For example, the Nigerian government has said they will pay for these laptops with part of the proceeds from a bank account containing $500,000,000 left by a rich oil baron who was killed in a car accident and left no heir. However, they are asking Negroponte to pose as this guy's heir, and also to give them a few thousand dollars for documentation fees and the like. I just don't see this thing turning out well.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kingduct (144865)
      In a serious sense, even were the OLPC (or the Intel machine in this arcile) what was needed to improve education in the third world, the reality is that I highly doubt the distribution will ever be fair.

      Having lived in a poor country myself for a number of years, I suspect that some member of the ruling oligarchy (which controls a party as well as controlling much of business) in most countries will end up becoming the "importer" and in order to "recover costs" and "include taxes" and "shipping and handlin
  • not to whoever will kill the project with close sourced software. Perhaps this means they plan to open the source code for WinXP! That way they can claim the "community will support it" and they'll focus on Vista/Longhorn
    • How will an XP port kill the project? Does it precent Linux from being run on it? No. Does it raise the cost of the laptop? Only if MS charges for XP, and it's mandatory that every machine include it.

      People would be screaming bloody murder if the OLPC folks had initially selected Windows for the laptop and then refused to allow Linux developers to have a look at it so they could port Linux to it. I fail to see the difference here. Fair is fair.
  • "Dear SIR,

    Our kind lawyer has advised us to purchase 100,000 notebooks with Linux....
    we have placed the funds of millions of dollars worth of gold for you in a Swiss account, but need you to advance us a small forwarding fee so that we can get that money to you..."

  • Free and Open Environment (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:06PM (#21175827)
    From the OLPC Wiki (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Core_principles/lang-en) -- "Give me a free and open environment and I will learn and teach with joy."

    Sounds good, but wait ...

    "It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."

    So you're open to the idea of making the OLPC closed? Well done! I'm not sure what the heck OLPC is about anymore. At first it seemed great, then the price went up, they chose a non-open manufacturer for their network chip, and now Windows? Give me a break. I bet they'll use "the children" as an excuse for their actions this time aswell.

  • Negroponte is doing the world a favor (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zappepcs (820751) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:10PM (#21175891) Journal
    On the one hand, the OLPC is open, so let MS port their OS. On the other hand, the chances the MS will port any of the bloated MS products to work well on the OLPC will convince a great many people that MS OS products are not necessarily the thing that they *MUST* have to be relevant in the world of computing.

    I would have thought that Windows CE would be the better choice for the OLPC. XP??? What are they thinking?

    Sure, it might be possible, but it is a move that is so far in the opposite direction of where MS products have been going you have to ask yourself if it is a joke? Even with their flagship OS, the latest great update has been the kind of success that you wish on your competition. How in the hell are they going to make XP fit on the OLPC? It's performance has not been lauded around the world as THE shining example of how an OS should work on a laptop.
    • Well I expect they just take XPs kernel and strip it until it's bare naked. You can do that with the linux kernel and if you have the source, you can do that with the XP kernel as well. Then you put a thin graphical shell on it. Voila XP on the OLPC.
    • I've run xp acceptably (no games, of course, some patience involved on various load times) on a 900MHz athlon. The clockspeeds are comparable, but we all know how little that matters.

      RAM's going to be an issue, and I think the 2GB of "HD" is going to come back to bite them pretty quickly. At least on the eee, the OS and apps take up about 75% of that. I'm sure the damnsmalllinux guys are deeply amused.

  • Classmate PC (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Woek (161635) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:11PM (#21175901)
    When I looked into the Classmate PC I read on Intel's site:

    Developed to address gaps in education found by Intel's extensive ethnographic research,...

    Riiiight... It has nothing to do with the positive response on the OLPC project.
  • "They'll learn to use something other than Windows! It's competitition!"
    I think the goal of OLPC is "Teaching Children", not "Teaching Children to use computers". While I'm sure some children exposed to computers through this program might wind up taking up the craft, the majority probably won't. The real question is: Can Microsoft, once done porting, use the full force of its might to create a superior system for Children, the way it has for Businesses? (people who think OOo isn't a peice of shit need not
    • I think the real issue is how Microsoft can differentiate the two systems (OS's made for XO vs conventional computers.) If they could get it so that Office works on these computers with (relatively) rediculously low specs, then they may have found Windows 7. Unless they just stick to Windows XP. Would that mean that they are going to continue support for it then?

  • Open??? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kgskgs (938843)
    "OLPC" stands for "One Laptop Per Child", open or not.

    If Negroponte said open, only because it made it easier to deliver the envisioned product. If it makes sense to go "Close" and get one laptop per child, then so be it.

    You care about "Open" only when you have enough of "Closed". For those who have none, what matters is having something.

    K

  • I predict: (Score:3, Funny)

    by E. Edward Grey (815075) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:53PM (#21176389)
    In 10 years, every IT department is going to say "Why buy Windows servers, when I can get a free or nearly free server OS that's more stable, run it on cheaper hardware with half the horsepower, and hire a Nigerian immigrant who knows it inside and out to administer it?"
    • Also: "Why use grid power, when that same Nigerian immigrant can hand crank that server?" Server admins typing with one hand will be even more standard than it is now.
    • Why wait for the Nigerians? If all that is required to administer a server is an IQ in the ballpark of 67 and little to no English skills, there must be a horde of latent IT admins flooding across the Mexican border every day. As a bonus, these people are positively geniuses when compared to the Nigerians, and are currently wasting their time picking fruit and washing dishes.

      http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft.htm#gdp%20table [f2s.com]

  • Flash Drive? Swap File? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Plekto (1018050) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @04:03PM (#21176535)
    I noticed that it has a 2GB flash drive. I wonder how long it will take for windows to burn it out with with its swap file.
  • Wouldnt Win2k be a better target for conversion than XP? It was *designed* in the days of 2Gb HDs, and can actually do useful work from 64Mb RAM..

    Has anyone out there managed to get it to boot and run off Flash?
    • If Vista is ported for the OLPC project then we might have something amazing on our hands. In its current state Vista would probably never respond on the platform. But if Vista is shrunken, code-bloat is removed, functionality re-thought and re-implemented. They might be on to something... Something that I might be interested in.
      • ... yes, in about 8 to 10 years.
      • And it will never be available for you except with one of these machines.

        Now, I like these machines and I like the goal of the project, but they're not really what most people in much of the European and north American people want, in mass. Sure, a few people wil get them to play with, but they are the exception.
        OTOH, maybe they will start putting them on American shelves as 'computers for kids' or some such and charge 100 bucks. For the record, I hope they do.

          • Throw this theoretical OS on a newer machine (1GHz and up, all the way up to dual-core) and you've got a super simple OS that should be capable of a great deal.
            It's called Fedora, and it comes pre-installed on the OLPC XO-1, you can also run it (for free) on a cheaper laptop and get a fully functional, responsive computer.

    • Re:Open (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DragonWriter (970822) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:15PM (#21175965)

      But 'open' DOESN'T mean that the XO project should have doubled the specs and cost of the OLPC so Microsoft would have an easier time porting to it.


      It didn't double the specs or the cost to do that. The cost is still less than double the $100 target, and it was projected to be over that target in the early production runs even before they increased the specs to meet the needs that the countries looking into buying it had communicated. Yes, some of that was probably related to ability to run Windows, but so what? The OLPC project isn't working to advance the interests of developed-world Linux fans, its making a machine to meet the needs of real people in the real world. And if the countries aren't going to buy it if it isn't capable of being repurposed to run Windows (which, if nothing else, gives the countries more options if they buy the machine and later change their mind about the software/content provided by OLPC and its partners), then OLPC needs to make a machine that addresses that concern.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sssssss27 (1117705)
        Reminds me of a quote by Chuck Palahniuk, "Why have I sold out? You think I'm supposed to grow old, beating some trite old protest drum that people don't hear anymore? Please; protest is now just a backdrop for a Diesel clothing ad in a slick fashion magazine. My goal is to create a metaphor that changes our reality by charming people into considering their world in a different way. It's time -- for me, at least -- to be clever and seduce people by entertaining them. I'll never be heard if I'm always rantin

    • Open for everybody (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xzvf (924443) on Tuesday October 30 2007, @03:56PM (#21176431)
      XO is an innovation in software as well as hardware. What I would like to see is the laptop in the hands of "rich" nation's school children. Yes, we can afford normal computers, and some school districts have deployed them, but not in an innovative way like the XO project proposition. With a truely open distribution model and relatively rich customers we might find the economies of scale that allow the laptop to cost $100.

        • Never said Microsoft were the makers of the OLPC. What should be clear is that installing closed-source software on any PC makes it less than an system, same as welding the hood shut on the car. Sure, you can open the doors, trunk, etc., but you can't fix the engine yourself, or get someone else to - you have to wait for the software vendor to fix it.

          The only "borderline stupid" is calling something open when it isn't. An OLPC with Windows is NOT an open system, any more than any other computer with Wind

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