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Making a Buck Online - Without Ads

Posted by Zonk on Sun Dec 09, 2007 03:27 AM
from the juggling-act dept.
A New York Times article hosted by C|Net looks at the unique position of the Consumer Reports website; they're one of the few online resources that gets by completely on subscription fees. They have no ads. One key seems to be valuing their online readers as much as their print readers - and charging both the same amount. "The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times tried charging for some online content, then abandoned the practice. For a decade, however, Consumer Reports has charged Internet readers the same price as print subscribers, currently $26 a year (or $5.99 for a month's online access or $45 a year to get the magazine both in print and on the Web). While the rest of the industry sees print readers as more valuable--because advertisers do--Consumer Reports actually makes more money from readers on its Web site, because it avoids printing, trucking, and mailing costs."
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  • by Titoxd (1116095) on Sunday December 09 2007, @03:37AM (#21629675) Homepage
    And Consumer Reports also has a reputation of not screwing people on both ends, so its clients are more than willing to pay for the content, be it in print or online. It just shows you the power that good ethics can have.
    • Content helps too (Score:4, Insightful)

      by The_Fire_Horse (552422) <thefirehorsey@gmail.com> on Sunday December 09 2007, @03:46AM (#21629703) Homepage Journal
      and once the reputation is established, if the content is good then I will pay for it no matter what format it comes in (and the web is certainly the easiest)
    • by jotok (728554) on Sunday December 09 2007, @04:03AM (#21629751)
      Oh, it's not ONLY their ethics. The information they provide is truthful and valuable. People will pay for "data."

      News articles, on the other hand, are essentially stories. I like to read them, but I read them with my morning coffee on the couch. Newspapers nowadays have lost their reputation for relevance and timeliness (typically by chasing ad revenue with sensationalist stories rather than by doing real investigative journalism) and so while they are interesting and amusing, they are not worth paying for.

      Subscription journals, on the other hand, I will still pay for, just like I would pay for Consumer Reports.
      • by Titoxd (1116095) on Sunday December 09 2007, @04:13AM (#21629781) Homepage
        Aye. Moreover, Consumer Reports is in an enviable position, as their comparisons allow people to save money, be it by getting a cheaper product, or by not spending on an overpriced piece of junk. As a result of these long-term savings, the consumer sees that CR provides value to him or her, and any company that has a product that is perceived as valuable has a captive market. I know I would think, "If this magazine can save me money any time, it might be worth the purchase price."
      • by Fozzyuw (950608) on Sunday December 09 2007, @09:38AM (#21630933)

        The information they provide is truthful and valuable. People will pay for "data."

        Exactly. I signed up for CR online when I was looking to buy a new cars in 2006 (and still had it when I bought another in 2007). To find the right car for me I spent the $30 to help read up on the cars I was interested in. It helped. I was able to read up on the past history of the cars, like the Toyota Corolla, and find it had a long history of excellent reviews. I was also able to knock a few cars off my list, like the Chevy Aveo, which had a recall in 2006/7 (I forget what year). Despite both cars having similar gas milage, the Aveo was a much smaller car (something my fiancee, who's French, felt more comfortable with given her European cars) with not as good reviews. In America, given the average size of a car is much larger, I felt safer with her having a slightly bigger car and she's adjusted to the size difference, given that roads here are also much larger.

        That small amount of money I wrote off as part of the cost of a proper new-car purchase. And what's $45 when you're spending $15,000? However, I have no reason to continue until there's some other big name purchase I want to do so I canceled. I'll pick up their magazine at the gym when I see one laying around. I also found it more difficult than expected to cancel my account with CR.

        Cheers,
        Fozzy

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        What's your opinion of The Real News [therealnews.com]? If you haven't heard about it, it's a guy who used to make documentaries brainstorm. He wanted a news network that was not beholden to government money, corporate money, or ads... only subscriptions. He estimates that if they get 200,000 subscribers, at $10 per month, they can operate a news network that's broadcast quality, with several hours of new daily programming.

        It's worth checking out. A very similar ethos to Consumer Reports... only the subscriber matters.
    • I thought so, too. Then I read this [consumerreports.org] review of the EEE PC. I was with them right up until this bit:

      For more advanced tasks, consider getting a full-fledged laptop with a dual-core processor, 1GB of RAM, and Windows Vista.

      First, what does "more advanced tasks" actually mean? I could use an EEE PC for programming, ssh access, and, I'm sure, many other things that this reviewer has never heard of.

      Second, and most important: Why the fuck are they recommending Windows Vista? I was curious, so I found this othe [consumerreports.org]

      • by Per Abrahamsen (1397) on Sunday December 09 2007, @07:08AM (#21630293) Homepage
        > First, what does "more advanced tasks" actually mean? I could use an EEE PC for programming, ssh
        > access, and, I'm sure, many other things that this reviewer has never heard of.

        And neither has the intended target audience for the review (or for the EEE PC).

        > I'm not claiming the situation is good for Linux gaming. But to claim there are no sophisticated
        > games for it, even if we're all willing to ignore Wine/Cedega, is factually untrue. By "factually
        > untrue", I mean it's in the realm of 2+2=5. Even for very large values of 2, that statement is
        > wrong, and always will be.

        It refers to the kind of games the self-declared gamers want to use a box for, rather than the kind of games the intended audience is interested in (flash games, solitaire).

        The statement is factually untrue in the sense that "the world is round" is a factually untrue statement in the context of people who believe in a flat Earth (since, to the nerd, only a mathematically perfect sphere would qualify as "round").

        Congratulation, you have discovered that consumer report is not written for nerds with autistic tendencies.

        > this whole Slashdot article is about them making a buck online, so are they even nonprofit?

        Yes, non-profit is a legal term that doesn't involve giving away stuff for free.

        And "expert" can also refer to the ability to explain complicated stuff in terms ordinary people can understand.
            • by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Sunday December 09 2007, @02:11PM (#21632887) Journal

              If you think someone coming to you and saying "I'm a big gamer, what computer should I buy?", and you answering "Oh, you should install Linux, it plays all the cutting edge games!" is in any way NOT wrong or bad advice, I think we can all agree you're not anywhere near as competent at distilling advanced technical knowledge as you think you are.

              This is what's known as a strawman argument.

              No, if someone came to me with that question, I'd suggest building their own, or buying a Dell (NOT Alienware), and putting XP on it. But people don't come to me with that question, they come to me with questions like "So I hear you're into Linux, should I use that for myself?" And the first thing out of my mouth is not "yes", but "What do you use a computer for?"

              If, at any point, they mention some Windows-specific program, or that they're into gaming, I'll point out that they are going to need Windows, so the best they can hope for is dual-boot.

              Actually, the most frequent question is "Can you fix my computer?" Second most frequent is "How do I stay secure online?" And while it's unlikely that I'll answer that without mentioning Linux, it's also unlikely that I'll recommend they switch -- I just let them know that if they do decide to switch, I'll be willing to walk them through it.

              They don't have space to go into page after page of caveats and explanations for every summary they make

              Bullshit, this is the Internet. Even if they don't have space, they can link back to Wikipedia or something. But like I said, I wasn't looking for "page after page". I was looking for some simple accuracy -- things like "Most games won't work with Linux."

              simply so that the average Linux user doesn't get his ego bruised.

              That one's an ad-hominim attack, right there with your suggestion that I'm autistic (I'm not).

              I develop HD-DVDs for a living. The very existence of my current job, and company, is dependent on Microsoft, and I have not, yet, been able to use Linux at work, even as a VM host -- nor have I spent a ton of time trying. I am not, by any means, a zealot.

              For the average suburban household, buying a Dell PC with Vista is the most optimal choice.

              Even if you're arguing Windows is the most optimal choice -- and I don't even want to get into that tired flamewar -- are you actually deluded enough to think Vista is a better choice than XP for those users?

      • Re:I thought so... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Joe Jay Bee (1151309) * <sarcasticjoe@nOspam.googlemail.com> on Sunday December 09 2007, @07:40AM (#21630405)
        So, wait, they're bad because they recommend a product you don't like for an audience you don't identify with, and don't recommend your OS of choice.

        Just because you think Linux/Mac should be mentioned in glowing praise next to every mention of Vista doesn't make it so. The point of Consumer Reports is to review things, not advertise the competitors to those things.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          And sorry to reply to my own comment (mea culpa) but since when did "Independent" automatically mean "Hates Microsoft"? Some people independently like and recommend Windows. I hate this attitude if they recommend everyone buy a Mac Mini/install Linux they're free-thinking individualists, but if they recommend a cheap Dell with Vista they're being bribed by Microsoft.
          • Re:I thought so... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by PopeRatzo (965947) * on Sunday December 09 2007, @08:56AM (#21630735) Homepage Journal

            Some people independently like and recommend Windows.
            Yes, but not Vista. The one decent point the GP makes is that if a "pro-consumer" organization recommends Vista, it either means they have not done their homework or they are getting a little taste from Microsoft. I think Consumer Reports is a useful magazine, but they occasionally get a little bit sloppy. If they in fact recommended Vista (and I have not verified that with my own eyes) then this is such a case of them being sloppy.

            To be fair, I rarely use Consumer Reports for anything having to do with computers or software, because I can get more reliable expert opinions elsewhere.

            NOTE: I'm offering this comment based upon my personal experience with Vista (I eventually went back to XP) and my interactions with hundreds of computer professionals whose opinions I have come to trust. I do not hate Microsoft. I might hate Steve Ballmer, but mostly because he is a sweaty friggin' maniac. I do love how he dances to "Safety Dance" though.
            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              Yes, but not Vista.

              Why? Lots of people on Slashdot are willing to come up and state they like Vista, and while I personally don't use it I have used it in the past and could find nothing overtly objectionable about it. So, I'll ask again: why, when discussing Vista, does the concept of independent thought cease to exist, and instead anyone saying anything positive gets labelled as being paid by Microsoft? The article is from Consumer Reports, for christ's sake, widely held as putting independence and integ
            • Re:I thought so... (Score:5, Informative)

              by Mongoose Disciple (722373) on Sunday December 09 2007, @10:57AM (#21631381)
              I'm a computer professional, and my Vista box has been my most trouble-free Windows machine yet. To read Slashdot I would've thought it was the OS equivalent of a burning paper bag full of dog crap on my doorstep, but surprisingly my experience with it's been great.

              Granted, I waited until 6 months or so after the launch to get it.

              I don't see a compelling reason for most people to move to Vista, but I haven't experienced a compellign reason not to yet either.
                • Re:I thought so... (Score:4, Interesting)

                  by Random Destruction (866027) on Sunday December 09 2007, @01:23PM (#21632583) Homepage
                  And then there are just as many of us who have had terrible time with vista. My aunt got a dell that came loaded with vista. She has a hard time reading the screen, so first thing I did was increase the text size. Apparently that requires a reboot. On the fourth attempt at booting, it decided not to lock up, and I got back to the interface. Everything was ugly and I couldn't move any window more than 2/3s across the screen. There was an invisible wall. So I set the text back, and rebooted again.

                  Then I went to copy her mail form outlook express to windows mail. I moved the proper files over from the other computer, and loaded windows mail. I pointed it to the files, and it spat out "file in use, or wrong file type" or some other such BS. I tried saving the DB in different formats etc. Eventually I discovered that what this error really meant was "Windows mail can't import user data as a user. Please re-run this program as administrator" why the fuck couldn't they just say that?

                  My experience with that box has continued in a similar vein. The computer is as slow as her old box, yet has 4 times the memory and at least that many times the processing power. I find it simply inconcievable anyone could run this OS.

                  That aside, people do. Smart people too, so there must be more to this equation. I'm not really sure what it is, but this polarized opinion is confusing.
      • "First, what does "more advanced tasks" actually mean?"

        That's pretty clear.

        What CR is saying is that if you're smart enough to ask that question, then you should get a better laptop. That is pretty self-evident.

        Theit advice is decent for people who are not knowledgeable about computers. It's like if you were buying a washer/dryer. You might not know much, so you just want honest advice that will suit you, not cost too much, and not get you a piece of junk.

        If tht's not worth $20-40 a year, I don't know wh
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I grew up reading Consumer Reports, and I've always been very impressed with their methodology & analysis of their test data for almost everything. Want to know which microwave meets its published wattage? CR is the way to go. Want to know which tires actually perform to their published specs? -- CR. Want to know if Zune battery life is as MS says? etc, etc, etc,

        Except for computers. As another child poster says, they're writing for a different audience than the typical /. reader. I've no idea wh
        • No one organization can be expert in everything, even CR. Except, of course, /.

          Have you ever seen the threads about women around here?

      • I have subscribed to Consumer Reports' web site a couple times in the past five years and then cancelled after a month. One time was when I was shopping for an HDTV. I found that they were just too out of date to be useful. With the rate at which high tech gear advances, they have too many gaps and old information in their reviews. Other web sites with faster updates and user reviews are much more useful.

        I've also seen them make major errors in their explanation of high tech appliances. About a CD burn
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          About a CD burner they said something along the lines of "It can copy an audio CD but the sound quality will be reduced and the copy cannot be further duplicated."

          I know exactly what you're talking about because i remember going "WTF?" after reading the same thing. So I researched it, and sure enough it was correct -- the device they were reviewing was a turntable->CD device for converting old records to CD, and could be hooked up via USB to a computer as well. And yes, if you used it to make multiple co
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Then they shouldn't sell themselves as "experts" if every true expert in a subject matter says they're wrong (which, as you point out, is pretty much the case).

            There's a difference between experts who make recommendations for other experts, and experts who make recommendations for casual users. CR has never pretended to care about anyone other than the average person looking for a good deal. I have yet to see any criticism of CR in the past decade (other than clear factual mistakes that CR corrected) that
        • How well are other genres and ratings represented on Linux?

          That's why I mentioned Neverball, Neverwinter Nights, and Wesnoth.

          No genre is represented well, but even if they aren't a fan of the FPS, it's damned sloppy to ignore them, or to use such a vague term as "Sophisticated 3D games."

  • by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Sunday December 09 2007, @03:42AM (#21629693) Homepage Journal
    Of all the websites, consumer reports (and in the UK; Which) must be seen as totally seperate from the products they are reviewing.
    How good would it be if this edition of Consumer Reports (and its special report on Car safety) was brought to you in association with Ford?
  • Independence (Score:3, Insightful)

    by proudfoot (1096177) on Sunday December 09 2007, @03:57AM (#21629727)
    But consumer reports cannot feature ads like other papers, because it must be, uniquely independent, of the products it reviews. Other newspapers do not necessarily have to be independent.
    While it would be nice if others were, I think I prefer paying less, and reading some ads.
    • Agreed that they truely need independence. DIsagree on prefering ads- I'd pay 5x what I do for any of my newspapers/magazines/radio/TV to get it ad free. I've stopped buying newspapers and magazines entirely due to ads- I only read online ones, with extensive ad blocking.
      • Agreed, for a different reason.

        I would rather pay money for useful information than get useless, biased, advertiser-influenced information free. I pay $100 a year for the Wall Street Journal, and about $600 a year for a bunch of science and professional magazines, because I want solid information, not the same AP or Reuters story 35 times over on Google News.

        My time is too valuable to waste reading junk (with the possible exception of Slashdot).
    • Re:Independence (Score:4, Insightful)

      by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Sunday December 09 2007, @05:10AM (#21629955) Journal
      I'll agree that paying less (and reading some ads) is preferable to paying more (and avoiding ads), if that's all there was to it. For instance, sites that offer a subscription service to avoid ads just make me turn Adblock on.

      However, independence has the implication that they are not being paid to say something. Now, some of the things CR says [slashdot.org] make me wonder if they're either paid to say it, or are complete morons. But the idea is what counts.

      Today, I had a long talk with my dad about what he does. I'd been talking a lot about my new job, so I wanted to hear more about what he does. His company -- two corporations, actually, so they can legally do both stocks and commodities, but it's the same people -- they're, well, a financial company. As in, you can bring them a big pile of money, and they'll invest it, and you get to involve yourself at varying levels. One of the things that came out in that discussion was, he provides two options for payment -- either a commission, or a yearly payment.

      Well, he recommends the yearly payment, even if it might (sometimes) cost a bit more. It's better for him, obviously, because the company then gets a stable income in the form of regular checks. But it also provides some assurance to the customer that there's never any motivation for a trade other than because it will benefit the customer.

      That is, if there's a commission, a broker might encourage a lot more trades than the client wants or needs, because it generates commissions. If there's no commission, you'd think it encourages doing less, to avoid work, and that's partially true. But it also means that the motivation for everything they do is to make money for their customers, so they stay customers, and because of how powerful word of mouth is in that industry.

      So yes, I would pay for Consumer Reports, and I'd pay more for that independence. Except that after reading their articles on various software, I'd never be able to shake the feeling that they were screwing me over with their other recommendations -- that their car recommendations, for instance, might sound as laughable to a mechanic as their software recommendations sound to me.
      • sites that offer a subscription service to avoid ads just make me turn Adblock on.

        What?! Why? If they offer you an ethical way to remove ads and provide them with payment for the service, you specifically try to avoid using it? Makes no (ethical) sense.
      • that their car recommendations, for instance, might sound as laughable to a mechanic as their software recommendations sound to me.

        No doubt they would. Does it really surprise you to think that a professional auto mechanic would have different priorities in their car purchase than a typical suburban housewife who doesn't know where the dipstick is? Does it really surprise you that the typical slashdot reader has different priorities when evaluating software than the typical AOL user? It doesn't make their e
  • Curious (Score:4, Informative)

    by Oddster (628633) on Sunday December 09 2007, @04:15AM (#21629791)
    Why point to the C-Net version of the article when the original article is freely available online here [nytimes.com]?
  • Exactly how effective is online advertising anyway? How many of you have seen an ad for something on a web page and thought "Fantastic! I must click this."

    My brain just edits them out anymore - it's the white noise of the internet to me.

    • indeed that is if you even see the ads. between noscript and adblock, there's no such thing as ads unless you actively disable the ad blocking features of both which normally you wouldn't want to do in the first place. noscript isn't just good at stopping ads at the source there's also a security element to it. the thing is that a lot of ad-supported sites use the same domains as sites you couldn't give a ---- about and the only way to support one site and not another using the same ad-source domains is
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      How many of you have seen an ad for something on a web page and thought "Fantastic! I must click this." Mostly when they were relevant ads showing up next to my search results. Showing up at the right place, at the right time, with my mind in the right context. I must say, Google got it right.
  • It is 2007, where is the ubiquitous micropayment scheme we were promised? (and I dont mean PayPal). If such a system existed, I think a lot more websites would be making a lot more money than at present.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It is 2007, where is the ubiquitous micropayment scheme we were promised?

      Because now all of online payments are tied into your personal credit card and personal info. With identity theft, malware/spyware, etc., people are very leery about putting in a credit card number at every other website. If there was an anonymous credit/debit card with a 10 dollar value, people would be more inclined to pay 50 cents here and there for some extra content. If it was compromised, you be out 10 bucks, and that's it.

      Do yo
    • Why don't you mean PayPal? It seems to be the most logical choice. The only problem I can see with PayPal is that it sucks for small payments since there is a flat fee even for amounts close to $0.
      • The only problem I can see with PayPal is that it sucks for small payments since there is a flat fee even for amounts close to $0.

        And that is the problem! Why would I want to pay for something if half of it's going to go to PayPal?

  • by F34nor (321515) * on Sunday December 09 2007, @04:28AM (#21629833)
    When I read by "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" Maya Angelou I got one thing out of it; you have to be rich to have an opinion. This is why we pay for content from Consumer reports, to make them rich enough so they can have a real and honest judgment about things we buy. This is also why they can afford to make sure no one uses their opinion as an endorsement, they don't want to be soiled by the petty filth of capitalism.
    • they don't want to be soiled by the petty filth of capitalism.
      Unless they've got their hooks in you. I signed up for a one-off inquiry on some merchandise (HDTVs). I had problems getting UN-subscribed and luckily the credit card I used was expiring. It's been ten months or so, and I *still* get email from them saying please come back. Ha.
      I offer this as my experience only.
  • The telling point in the article for me was the implication that leveraging their internet presence took them from losing 7 million a year to being 28 million in the black.

    I remember being frustrated at researching a purchase, only to find links to CR articles which I couldn't access. Sans web, I'd have forgotten about CR, or if I remembered, might not have bothered subscribing because the information I wanted was in a back issue, and libraries are free.

    What I'd really like to see is a study or report on ad
  • For newspapers the advertisers are their customers. Those are the ones who bring in most of the money. For Consumer Reports, the consumer is the customer.

    So all in all what has been proven is that businesses do is look at their customers for income. The time has long gone that the consumer was the newspapers customer.
  • by zotz (3951) on Sunday December 09 2007, @06:40AM (#21630199) Homepage Journal
    Is there another reason to charge as much for the online version as for the print version when, admittedly, their costs are less for the online customers.

    If I were an "about to commit" customer, and I have thought about becoming one recently, this would put me off, I would like a good share of the savings passed on to me.

    One simple solution:

    Print subscription comes with (either a CD version or) an online account, online version is stand alone.

    I am sure there must be better possibilities. But if they're happy...

    all the best,

    drew
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Why do you assume that publications are priced on a cost-plus basis? At any rate, you're only addressing the marginal cost of production; most of their costs are probably in the research and writing of the articles. Since they're selling information, and not paper or pixels, the value to customers is the appropriate basis for pricing. From that perspective, the online version is more valuable, since it's constantly updated, searchable, and organized by category rather than date.

      If they were making a higher
  • Consumer Reports actually makes more money from readers on its Web site, because it avoids printing, trucking, and mailing costs.
    So it costs less to serve online readers, but they charge them the same? Sounds fair to me. Or something.
  • by Don92126 (1124821) on Sunday December 09 2007, @11:35AM (#21631667)
    As a current Consumer Reports Online subscriber it's obvious to me why I'm willing to pay as much as the print magazine: it's worth more to me. In fact I'd even pay more for online that print in this case. When I want to go find reviews, I don't want to go dig through a pile of print and hope I haven't lost the issue with the review I need, and if I'm a new subscriber to the online service I basically just got all the back issues for free. The online service is so handy I use it for basically every major purchase I make now.
      • Note that the GP comment is about Gamespot, not about Consumer Report. See the comment title. Just in case you're like me and often skip the comment title.