Slashdot Log In
RIAA-fighting Maine Law Professor Speaks Out
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Dec 28, 2007 08:29 PM
from the fightin'-lawfish dept.
from the fightin'-lawfish dept.
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In an interview with Jon Newton of p2pnet, Prof. Deirdre Smith of the University of Maine says that 'our students are enthusiastic about being directly connected to a case with a national scope and significance'. The UM Cumberland Legal Aid Clinic is the first law school legal clinic in the U.S. to have taken on the RIAA, to have the opportunity for hands-on experience fighting the RIAA's effort to rewrite copyright law. Smith went on to say that the case is probably one of the first intellectual property cases the clinic has ever taken on, and that if it proceeds further, she expects to also 'draw on the considerable expertise in IP among members of our faculty and the Maine Center for Law and Innovation, another program of the Law School'. "
Related Stories
[+]
U.Maine Law Clinic Is First To Fight RIAA 129 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "'A student law clinic is about to cause a revolution' says p2pnet. For the first time in the history of the RIAA's ex parte litigation campaign against college students, a university law school's legal aid clinic has taken up the fight against the RIAA in defense of the university's students. Student attorneys at the University of Maine School of Law's Cumberland Legal Aid Clinic, under the supervision of law school prof Deirdre M. Smith, have moved to dismiss the RIAA's complaint in a Portland, Maine, case, Arista v. Does 1-27, on behalf of two University of Maine undergrads. Their recently filed reply brief (PDF) points to the US Supreme Court decision in Bell Atlantic v. Twombly, and the subsequent California decision following Twombly, Interscope v. Rodriguez, which dismissed the RIAA's 'making available' complaint as mere 'conclusory,' 'boilerplate' 'speculation.'"
[+]
Magistrate Suggests Fining RIAA Lawyers 133 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Angered at the RIAA's 'gamesmanship' in joining multiple 'John Does' in a single case without any basis for doing so, a Magistrate Judge in Maine has suggested to the presiding District Judge in Arista v. Does 1-27 that the record companies and/or their lawyers should be fined under Rule 11 of the Federal Rules, for misrepresenting the facts. In a lengthy footnote to her opinion recommending denial of a motion to dismiss the complaint (PDF, see footnote 5), Judge Kruvchak concluded that 'These plaintiffs have devised a clever scheme to obtain court-authorized discovery prior to the service of complaints, but it troubles me that they do so with impunity and at the expense of the requirements of Rule 11(b)(3) because they have no good faith evidentiary basis to believe the cases should be joined.' She noted that once the RIAA dismisses its 'John Doe' case it does not thereafter join the defendants when it sues them in their real names. Arista v. Does 1-27 is the same case in which student attorneys at the University of Maine Law School, "enthusiastic about being directly connected to a case with a national scope and significance", are representing undergrads targeted by the RIAA."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
caveat (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course they are. Just not personally.
This professor is clearly a terrorist. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This professor is clearly a terrorist. (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
About time (Score:5, Insightful)
RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:4, Insightful)
i guess this really frightens no talent hacks, if people get to hear their trash before buying it, they'll fade away pretty quick.
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)
When supply outdid demand.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
False. The price is still set by the seller, who is under no obligation to sell/give away — however saturated the market may be.
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they have not. There are plenty of ways for the creators of the non-tangible intellectual property (be they musicians, movie-makers, or clothing designers) to sell their works. Some of them choose to sell their rights to a middleman such as a record-company, of which there are plenty.
There you go. Your mention of "properly attributed" reveals internal inconsistency of your point of view, thus demonstrating it as objectively wrong. If the creator has no right to control their creation, why should anyone bother "properly attributing"? Oops...
And if you don't want to be killed, you're free to stay indoors. Fortunately, the government is upholding the laws (mostly)...
Parent
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is a perfect illustration of how copyright is positioned, incorrectly, as equivalent to a human right.
Antigua and Barbuda has won the right, in an international tribunal, to disregard copyright protection of U.S. recorded performances.
If, instead, they won the "right" to kill Americans, that would be different, no? In reality, no tribunal could grant such a "right." And there you have the difference between copyright and self-ownership.
The right to waive U.S. copyright isn't even as significant as, say, a letter of marque. So copyright is really pretty low on the rights food chain.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The right of the creator to control their creation is — correctly — understood as a human right. There is no (or there should be no) distinction between tangible, material property and the non-tangible intellectual kind. The right to control, of course, implies the right to transfer the ownership, which is how a record label gets to own a song, and I get to control a car.
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not around here, it's not. Copyright is optional, artificial, utilitarian, economic -- and nothing else.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You are absolutely correct. But the "right of the creator to control their creation" does not mean that "the creator is allowed to infringe on my right to create". I think that is what is overlooked by many who blindly support all forms of intellectual property.
I'm not talking abou
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not at all.
Copyright is an inducement for creators to create things and make them available for others to use. The targeted benefit was to society- not to a select individual.
It was rightly set for a short period of time and there are many other kinds of creations which people do not get to keep the rights too.
A tiny subset of humans has asserted additional rights- but the fact is that society is beginning
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
we'd fire no guns, shed no teeeaaars
Now i'm an embargoed shell of an antiguan peer, the last of beckermans priivaateeers
Re:RIAA/MPAA - is the bad press worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's no more of an arbitrary way to compensate a copyright holder than the legislated way of doing it that has become disconnected from the stated purpose for the government granted limited monopoly.
By "arbitrary" I mean that copyright and patent monopolies are a creation of government. Government could very well decide that copyright no longer exists and, unlike natural rights, there would be no appeal to a universal notion of human rights. If it became too burdensome to protect copyright for, say, recorded performances, governments could rationally decide to not protect them, or to scale back protection to where infringement would be inconsequential under law. This is very different from the rights government is prohibited from infringing on, and that are presumed to exist with or without a government that is instructed to respect those rights.
So, literally, it is up to people to decide what to pay.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Regards,
Art
Nice initiative but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nice initiative but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Nice initiative but... (Score:5, Informative)
2. They're not in it alone, they're working under the supervision of a very eminent lawyer.
3. Many if not most of the best briefs written in the legal profession are written in large part by young people working under the supervision of a more experienced lawyer. The younger lawyers and law students may have more time for scholarship and writing than us oldsters who are so busy taking phone calls and meetings and sending out bills and supervising youngsters.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Performance in the law, especially trial law, is based enormously on experience. A doctor fresh out of medical school is better equipped to handle a patient than a lawyer fresh out of law school. When a doctor treats a patient generally there isn't a doctor on the other side of the operating room intentionally trying to make the patient worse.
Re: (Score:2)
It looks to me... (Score:5, Informative)
like the RIAA stepped in something squishy right over the top of their shoe, and they're at that point where they're praying it's just mud, and afraid to look down.
How did they ever get caught pulling their crap at a university with a whole faculty devoted to making lawyers? Can't you just see it...all those sweet little law students looking hopefully up at them, like a school of piranha that have learned how when their owner taps on the tank, a pork chop will be along shortly?
RIAA going after students at Unis with law schools (Score:2)
How did they ever get caught pulling their crap at a university with a whole faculty devoted to making lawyers?
Hell the RIAA went after students from Yale [yaleherald.com] which has a good law school. Now my question is why didn't Yale do the same thing as the Maine university?
FalconRe: (Score:2)
It looks to me... like the RIAA stepped in something squishy right over the top of their shoe, and they're at that point where they're praying it's just mud, and afraid to look down. How did they ever get caught pulling their crap at a university with a whole faculty devoted to making lawyers? Can't you just see it...all those sweet little law students looking hopefully up at them, like a school of piranha that have learned how when their owner taps on the tank, a pork chop will be along shortly?
Yep, I think the RIAA made a mistake taking on the college and university world. Right now there are a lot of envious law students all across the country wishing their law school was doing the same thing. I don't think it will be long before you see a lot more of this. I think a great sleeping giant has been awakened.
Will RIAA be Hiring Maine Grads in the future? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder how many of those students will end up working on the other side once they graduate. It would be kind of like a hacker working for a security company. They'll be more familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of all the arguments and could demand premium salaries in this area of law.
Except a hacker improves security when they see something that's insecure. It's crackers and script kiddies that break into systems for gain. Hackers have an ethic [antionline.com] of not committing theft, vandalism, or breach of
Here's the problem. No physical material ! (Score:2, Interesting)
This is ip ifringement. Not the exact same as theft.
The songs can be deleted and nothing is left. Is that the classical definiton of theft?
Where is the evidence? This to me is the part that is left out of the debate.
Just because you download shouldn't convict you!
If you delete then there is no evidence! damnit!
what is the real problem? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:what is the real problem? (Score:5, Informative)
Regards,
Art (IANAL)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Just a fine point: binding precedents are generally not established by suing individuals who don't try to put up much of a defense. While the decisions of district court judges may have some persuasive impact (particularly if well-written), they do not create
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Even when dealing with
Pissing off/on the Lawyers of Tomorrow... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not "of the University of Maine" (Score:2, Informative)
Professor Deirdre M. Smith is an Associate Professor of Law at the University of Maine School of Law, and the Director of the Cumberland Legal Aid Clinic. The University of Maine School of Law is actually a part of the University of Southern Maine, which is a part of the University of Maine System. The University of Maine, which has a flagship campus in Orono and a few other campuses, is also a part of the University of Maine System. The University of Maine and the University of
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Interestingly, when I challenged an author of an equally stupid comment to substantiate their insinuation, that "the establishment" would label any opponent "terrorist", one of the replies [slashdot.org] tried to portray some legal challenges as a form of terrorism:
So, ironically enough, somebody from the "burn the MAFIAA" camp is on record suggesting, legal challenges may be a form of "terrorism" (or something — the
meh (Score:5, Informative)
Rep. Howard Berman (D-Hollywood) recently introduced the P2P Piracy Prevention Act (H.R. 5211). This law essentially gives any copyright-holder the right to break any existing law while engaging in technological measures (such as hacking) in the course of protecting their content. They must give prior notice to the government, but there is no approval is required, and the government must keep secret any notice it receives. Large copyright holders sought this immunity in the counter-terrorism bills that greatly increased penalties for hacking, but the absurdity of equating file sharing to terrorism forced them to withdraw their bid that time. The chances of success are hopefully slim, but it's hard to tell.
so in 2002 copyright holders tried to gain the ability to completely ignore the law to go after those they thought to be violating copyright and tried to do so under the auspices of counter-terrorism. like i said, it took 5 minutes to find that with a google search on the words "copyright violation equated with terrorism".
Parent
Re:uhm (Re:meh) (Score:5, Interesting)
these businesses tried to pass copyright law inside anti-terrorism legislation. that's not a strawman. it's not lame. you are saying that the author imagined that this was an anti-terrorism bill?
as i insist? i don't insist anything. Jack Valenti testified before the government in an investigation entitled "International Copyright Piracy: Links to Organized Crime and Terrorism". Are you going to tell me that he wasn't there to talk about copyright and ties between piracy and terrorism? the name is a straw man imagined up by whoever chaired the subcommittee?
you asked for examples. i was bored - took ten minutes to find you a couple and you then turn around and say they aren't examples at all. i see in other parts of this thread you've equated violating copyright with murder. at the same time your original post i replied to says that the statement certain legal whores who allow or act to bring certain types of "private lawsuit" is alluding to the riaa as terrorists. so gaining the right to hack people's computers in an antiterrorism bill is a straw man - but the words private lawsuit in quotes is a satisfactory allusion to terrorism. you live in a weird reality. and the funny thing is, you just haven't done any homework. google riaa and terrorism. you will find hundreds of hits where people clearly and definitively state that they believe the actions of the riaa are terrorism. you can drop your weak example. why i'm helping you out with that, i don't know. you should really do the work yourself.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My understanding is, they wanted an exception, that would apply to their activities — to prevent the anti-hacking provisions of the law from applying to their own investigations. But it is not, unfortunately, uncommon to see even completely unrelated bits attached to legislation these days — it is called "pork-barelling".
Re:RIAA fighting professor? (Score:4, Informative)
When you keep plastering people with terror here and terror there, they will first be afraid, then notice that you're crying wolf, then they'll start ridiculing you by applying the term you wanted to use to frighten them to anything that is considered remotely "bad", in a mocking way of exaggerating, just as much as you did.
With "you", in this case, not necessarily being you, but whoever uses a far too strong and powerful term to describe something that's anything but as horrifying as it is being made.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When you keep plastering people with terror here and terror there, they will first be afraid, then notice that you're crying wolf
Well, here we go. You seem to agree, that somebody somewhere has "cried wolf" a few too many times. If such is, indeed, your opinion, would you, please, substantiate it with a few examples of somebody being publicly suspected of terrorism without a good reason?
Restricting myself only to stories that have appeared on slashdot, and which I remember immediately off the top of my head:
1) Boston freaking out over homemade lite-brites of cartoon characters. (2 guys arrested)
2) The TSA freaking out over a girl with a small LED art project attached to her sweatshirt. (1 MIT student detained)
3) Someone getting a home-repaired or modified device confiscated at an airport over a resistor sticking out of its casing.
Of course this is entirely irrelevant, because y
meh deux (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:RIAA fighting professor? (Score:4, Interesting)
The most complete article I can google up comes, oddly enough, from Kuro5hin. [kuro5hin.org]
Some Guy named Rick McCallum shot off his mouth about how Piracy and Terrorism are the same.
I don't know about the states (I'm living in Germany with the Military, so the only english-language TV we get here is AFN) - but the anti-drug campaign that runs along similar lines is still going strong here, with a bunch of kids talking gravely about how they helped kill police officers and fund criminals when they're doing drugs is still going strong.
There is a (small) amount of support for the arguement, physically pirated discs (as opposed to bittorrent downloads) - are usually pressed by organized crime in Asia. A bit of the money they make off that probably ends up in the hands of one terrorist organization or another.
Same with Drugs, the Poppy fields in Afghanistan provide the vast majority of funds for the insurgency there.
Parent
Re:I'm a fan of NewYorkCountryLawyer, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Nah, not so much. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
All those law courses and no time to take a single economics class?
Well, that'll teach you. =)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What would you expect from a country lawyer who winds up in Manhattan?