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Pirate Bay to Purchase Sealand?
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jan 12, 2007 08:51 AM
from the nice-dodge dept.
from the nice-dodge dept.
paulraps writes "Notorious Swedish file-sharing website The Pirate Bay is planning to buy its own nation in an attempt to get around troublesome international copyright laws. The organization, the world's largest bit torrent tracker, has set its sights on Sealand, a former British naval platform in the North Sea that has been designated a 'micronation' and claims to be outside UK jurisdiction. With a target price of £500m it won't be cheap, but Pirate Bay says contributors will become honorary citizens."
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Arrr! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, I think the consequences would be rather severe, as now all small countries who have done nothing wrong will feel that they are targeted. Remember: if your country doesn't have copyright laws, it's not wrong to copy stuff. Many many many things that are illegal in the US are legal elsewhere, and vice versa. Political pressure is not the same as military action.
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The official reason when Sealand gets squished (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they will accuse it of trafficking in kiddie porn.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, with that kind of money, I'm sure you can buy an small island in a nice warm place and have the country who currently owns that small island recognize it as a sovereign country (a nice fat contribution to "ME fun" of the President/leader would secure that deal and take out the sting of losing a worthless chunk of land).
The problem with Sealand is that England can take it over anytime, it's sovereignty is recognized by no one country except by the owners. Buying it is a scam. You get nothing. And if worse comes to worse (in terms of laws), Piratebay will have to host servers in their country, who says England and the neighboring countries won't just cut the connection?
This idea is beyond stupid. Stick with the Pirate Party - the name is great with this generation. Get buzz on college campuses, go on the Daily Show and Colbert Report (am waiting to see if the parent companies would permit this, as well as Jon himself), and profit!
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Standard 'Infringement != Theft' Note (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright infringement is not theft. The most obvious and conspicuous difference is that the former is civil and the latter criminal law. This has vast implications vis-a-vis the manner in which suit is brought, the possible penalties for the defendant, and the burden on the plaintiff. Another huge difference is that the latter involves denying the owner the use of an asset whereas the former involves unlawfully creating/distributing copies of a work. Copyright infringement and theft are not even closely related issues, and it's impossible to discuss them usefully without realizing that.
Now, these are obvious, relevant, basic facts about a topic which is important and much-discussed on Slashdot. And yet there a largish population (maybe 15% of those who express an interest) on Slashdot of people who just physically cannot learn them. Whence, then, this 'fool reserve'?
Originally I theorized that it relates to sunspot activity but later I came to feel that El Nino, peak oil, the war in Iraq, and the new 'gritty' James Bond may all play a role. And maybe chupacabra. Chupacabra's a pretty sinister beast... think about it, it's a monster named after a lollipop... what could possibly be spookier?
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Re:Standard 'Infringement != Theft' Note (Score:5, Informative)
I saw True Romance at the cinema. I own a copy on video. I own it on DVD. I own the directors cut unrated version on DVD. If I'm away from home and decide I want to watch it, and use a copy of the DVD I put onto my laptop hard disk, I put it to you that I am depriving nobody of their rightful income.
I am depriving them of income they'd like. But frankly they've been more than compensated by me for their effort and artistic output.
My thoughts may not match the law on this matter. I'd prefer to change the law.
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Re:Standard 'Infringement != Theft' Note (Score:5, Insightful)
Rubbish. You are arguably/potentially depriving someone of their rightful income - since we do not and can never know whether <any/some/most/all> of the people who pirated the <software/music/movie/etc> would have bought it if pirate channels did not exist.
You can dismiss that admittedly subtle distinction as "mumbojumbo" or "newspeak" as well if you like. No skin off my nose; those of us who realise that the real world IS full of subtle distinctions can continue to have an appropriate nuanced debate, you can carry on boiling things down to oversimplified soundbites that sound better when chanted by a lynch mob ;-)
GP post is absolutely correct. The two things (theft of physical objects vs copyright infringement of non-physical content) are very different; they may very well both be wrong, but if so they are wrong in different ways, and a proper adult discussion on the subject will necessarily make this distinction and treat them accordingly.
FWIW, I'm heavily involved in music of many forms. I've sold my music via record labels; I've also sold stuff without labels, selling direct from artist to fans; I've produced music on commission. I've given away music as a form of promotion in order to earn money from live gigs; I've done live gigs for free in order to earn money from CD sales. I'm confident I've done most any permutation of "create content" and "make money" you can care to name.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop thinking you can force someone to buy a physical support for information (this is hard for a lot of people)
Stop thinking you can get money for transmission of information (this is hard for most people I know)
The only solution I see is that people should be able to be paid at the production step, not at the distribution step.
Also I am getting tired of the "respect my artist lifestyle, I expect to get money when I distribute music" tirade because it is not an argument, I could easily tell "respect my computer scientist lifestyle, I expect to be able to share, upload and download informations without constraints" that is true and that is not an argument either.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
Most. perhaps only many, people who copy electronic media would not have purchased the item anyway, at lest that's the claim. I tend to think it true. In the day's of dial-up modems at 1200 baud, there was piracy. There were also music and movies on physical media.
Today we have broadband internet and digital music which allows almost instant copying over the Internet. Are music, video and software sales up or down over the last 10 years?
Yup. And by more than simply the growth rate of computers.
On a related tangent... software developers: please stop calling your demo software "shareware". If you put out crippled software and require payment to unlock it (time or feature restrictions), then that is a DEMO. Shareware is when you put out a full version of software and ask people to pay you voluntarily. Freeware is fully functional software with no payment strings attached at all.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Informative)
What you have done is infringed their rights. That's why this particular immoral act is called "copyright infringement", see?
And the fact that nothing is taken in the process of infringing the copyright-holder's rights is why this is different from theft, where property is actually taken. Copyright infringement is more akin to trespassing. (Are you going to argue that trespassing is also theft, because you are "stealing" someone's right to control who enters their land?)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, you can copy music again and again and again, just like software, at no cost. Monetarily, that means if I copy my friend's CD, or grab it off of the net, the loss you incur because of that is zero. You don't profit off of it. But you don't lose anything either. Unlike if I steal a screwdriver, which costs money to be manufactured again.
And that, succinctly, is the reason why it's called copyright infringement, rather than stealing. Both are against the law, but the word stealing is more emotionally charged, so the *AA are pushing it. Just like they call musicians "artists." And then stab them in the back. If you're so pissed about people stealing from you, you should first examine them. As "fraud" and "predatory tactics" are closer to "stealing" than "copyright infringement." That or examine your navel and stop posting to
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Interesting)
You can take your own opinion about the moral implications of the act of copyright infringement, but at least have the brains to call it what it is.
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Why even bother arguing about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks!
(Something tells me that my calm and reason is not on this occasion going to be enough to single-handedly stop the flame-war...)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Funny)
They buy Sealand and become a sovereign nation to avoid prosecution. The RIAA, MPAA and BSA all band together and officially buy the U.S. government and military/industrial complex. Bush becomes an RIAA, MPAA, BSA executive by default. He declares a pre-emptive strike on Sealand to both curry favor with his, now official, bosses AND to distract from the disaster that is Iraq. "Shock and Awe" is employed but on a smaller scale so that Sealand isn't totally destroyed. The liberals go into hand wringing mode for the downtrodden pirate land peoples. Areas of Sealand (no larger than two feet by two feet) are occupied by American forces, while the Pirate Bay folks hide in ventilation shafts with Osama. American troops are ravaged by spitball artillery attacks launched from various vents on the compound. The leader of the Pirate Bay goes on pirate radio to bring the troops over to their cause as a sort of "Tokyo Rose" with an attitude. This drags on for four years with casualties on both sides. Republicans despise the Pirate Bay people on principal. Liberals hold them up as modern day heroes, but since the media is all controlled by the RIAA, MPAA and BSA, they can't get the message out that easily and have to resort to holding up index cards at their local supermarket with "Free the Repressed Peoples of Pirate Bay" and "Bring the Troops Home". Yeah. I can see it now.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Funny)
As long as we're entering the realm of fantasy, can I get a pony?
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.seanhastings.com/havenco/sealand/histo
Sealand Fights Off Invaders (Wins War)
In August of 1978, a number of Dutch men came to Sealand in the employ of a German businessman. They were there to discuss business dealings with Sealand. While Roy was away in Britain, these men kidnapped Prince Roy's son Michael, and took Sealand by force. Soon after, Roy recaptured the island with a group of his own men and held the attackers as prisoners of war.
During the time that he held the prisoners, the Governments of the Netherlands and Germany petitioned for their release. First they asked England to intervene in the matter, but the British government cited their earlier court decision as evidence that they made no claim to the territory of Sealand. Then, in an act of de facto recognition of Sealand's sovereignty, Germany sent a diplomat directly to Sealand to negotiate for the release of their citizen.
Roy first released the Dutch citizens, as the war was over, and the Geneva Convention requires the release of all prisoners. The German was held longer, as he had accepted a Sealand Passport, and therefore was guilty of treason. Prince Roy, who was grateful that the incident had not resulted in a loss of life, and did not want to bloody the reputation of Sealand, eventually released him as well.
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Re:Arrr! (Score:5, Funny)
Would the current owners mount a physical defense, or would they just whine about it in International Courts? Just get a couple boats that can make the 8 mile trip, load up with tough acting college kids with guns and a couple people that know what they are doing, and just storm the platform. The media would eat it up and Pirate Bay gets an actual Pirate Bay.
I'd probably go myself this summer, who needs internships when a summer of swashbuckling adventure and romance aboard a stationary platform in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do but stand around looking intimidating to prevent someone else from doing the same thing. Way better than maybe getting a simple project and being the coffee boy.
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Hmm . A bit slow thought. (Score:4, Informative)
I think they might need an upgrade to do file sharing.
Re:Hmm . A bit slow thought. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Hmm . A bit slow thought. (Score:5, Funny)
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TCP/IP Over Dolphon (Score:5, Funny)
TCP/IP over Aquatic Mammal carriers, as it is more officially known, is simply an modification of
RFC1149 [ietf.org] (A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers).
The above spec has been "embraced and extended" for Aquatic Mammal use; (much) larger packet sizes are supported, as well as a separate optional High Frequency Audio command channel, which is sometimes used for Relay transmission of packets, and the possibility of dynamic packet routing..
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Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Account number? (Score:5, Funny)
You mean we actually get to fire live ammo on the MPAA/RIAA lawyers? Can you repost the account number accepting these donations?
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Re:Screw the account number... (Score:5, Funny)
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Theres a problems with this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Pirate Bay would get cut off in a heart beat.
Re:Theres a problems with this. (Score:5, Interesting)
Think of the extended benifits. Under the guideline set by the US, no one should have problems with you kidnapping the head of the RIAA and using waterboarding techniques to extract information about how they are planning to shutdown your network, thus causing the complete economic colapse of your country as well as threatening (ie terrorizing) all your honorary citizens.
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Re:Theres a problems with this. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Theres a problems with this. (Score:5, Insightful)
The country where you put your embassy has to recognize you as a nation
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Re:Theres a problems with this. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pirate Bay would get cut off in a heart beat.
Cutting some cables might not fix the problem, though, since there are other options (satellite communications; connecting through a proxy, say a ship in international waters; etc.). So, if this went through, most likely the young nation would quickly be 'liberated'.
(But we all know it won't succeed, it's just a publicity stunt by TPB, and an amusing one at that; they do know their PR, those people)
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500 Million ?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:500 Million ?? (Score:5, Informative)
Sealand claims some sort of special status, and has indeed seen off a couple of half-hearted attempts to get rid of it.
However, let's be serious for a minute. The UK does not recognise the independence of Sealand, which is entirely contained within UK national waters under international law. Seeing off the navy is a cute joke, but if anyone who "bought" the "nation" started seriously impeding UK interests, for example by flagrantly violating UK law, then the "nation" could cease to exist rather abruptly. More realistically, the government would probably just ship a few police officers over there, arrest everyone, and throw them in jail. You'd hear their cries of "You have no jurisdiction!" all the way to the police helicopter, of course. :-)
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dumb idea. (Score:5, Insightful)
1) I bet some data centers are bigger than Sealand.
2) Easier to cut Sealand off from the rest of the internet.
The National Anthem of Sealand (Score:5, Funny)
No more DRM me hearties, yo ho
We file swap and upload and don't give a hoot
No more MPAA me hearties, yo ho
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me
Citizenship?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
500 million for that? Why not launch a satellite? (Score:5, Insightful)
For that amount of cash they could probably launch a satellite. Now that's an idea -- how about trackers in the sky people can connect to by pointing an antenna to it? Since you'd have to aim at the satellite, it'd be very unlikely that somebody could snoop on the communication, and the precise location of the users could be unknown.
At least, unlike with Sealand, anybody with the right equipment could connect to it, without having to rely on other countries not cutting the connection to it.
Isn't this a book? (Score:5, Interesting)
Bad Idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be a waste of money. As much as I support piratebay, they are much more secure within Sweden than they ever will be at Sealand.
First, Sealand is not a real country, it is a part of Britain. The fact that some people who are good at manipulating media claims otherwise, doesn't make it so.
Secondly, even if Sealand was a real country, it's not a country any other country needs to maintain relations with. If they find out that they dislike you, they will be perfectly happy to shut down your Internet connection. That the server remains out of their reach is not important. More important is the fact that unless you agree to be e.g. British, you will not have the protection of e.g. British law against service providers who decide to shut you down.
Finally, it's a waste of money. If you really believe Sealand is a country, and that owning it will somehow help you avoiding legalities when hosting torrents, then you should just do the same as the current owner did: occupy it. At this time, there is only one person on Sealand (a security guard). I'm sure the cost of renting a small ship or a helicopter and sufficient crews to fight him will be well below the prize the current "owners" ask for.
Why Bother? (Score:4, Insightful)
- Claim it, and back up the claim with a strong enough economy or military that the international community decides that it's in their best interests to play along.
- Get a strong nation to recognise your claim, and put pressure on other nations to do the same.
Sealand failed the first one; they have no military, and almost no economy, and they haven't tried the second.Being a citizen of somewhere like Vatican City, which is internationally recognised, might be useful. Being a citizen of Sealand isn't; even if they did issue you a passport (the current administration doesn't), you can't use it anywhere. Similarly, infringing UK law on Sealand isn't a good idea. When Sealand caught fire last year, they called out the British fire brigade. I suspect the police have at least as long a reach, and the claim that you are not guilty because you committed the crimes in a nation that is not recognised by the UK government would not hold up in a British court any more than declaring your house to be its own jurisdiction would.
A better bet might be Luxembourg. According to the CIA factbook, the population is just under half a million. The number of registered Slashdot users is about a million. Unlike Sealand, Luxembourg is already recognised as a nation. Monaco, with only 32K people might be an even better bet. Failing that, I suspect that there are a number of third-world countries that would sell a segment of themselves and recognise its independent status in exchange for a few million dollars...
They'll never get enough money (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And the **aa would say.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Perfect! (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Perfect! (Score:5, Interesting)
Ironically enough, there is one! It's called Steal This Film [wikipedia.org]. Here's a torrent [thepiratebay.org]. Maybe this new stuff about Sealand will be in Part 2.
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Re:hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:problem... (Score:5, Interesting)
That didn't stop French Intelligence from blowing up a Greenpeace ship [wikipedia.org], now did it? And I'm pretty sure that French Intelligence are pussies compared to the **AA.
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Re:problem... (Score:5, Funny)
You must be new here...
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