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Blu-ray/HD DVD Disc Sales Numbers Revealed

Posted by Zonk on Thu Feb 01, 2007 02:57 PM
from the battle-of-the-micro-titans dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The High-Def format wars finally have a yardstick against which to measure who's winning with the first public release of VideoScan sales figures for both HD DVD and Blu-ray. The first two weeks' worth of data seem to back up what many predicted — that the Blu-ray-enabled PS3 is helping Sony quickly close the gap with HD DVD, with almost three Blu-ray discs sold for every one HD DVD during the first week of January. HD DVD still leads in overall discs sold since inception, but that lead looks to be quickly dwindling. While they do show a trend, the results from VideoScan are still fairly vague. Why are consumers being denied the information they need to make a considered choice?"
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] High-Def Format Wars - Battle of the Freebies 212 comments
An anonymous reader writes "It's come to this: eager to introduce the masses to the virtues of the next-gen DVD formats, the studios and manufacturers backing HD DVD and Blu-ray have begun giving discs away. It all started last month when Microsoft pacted with Universal to give away copies of 'King Kong' on HD DVD to consumers buying the XBox 360 HD DVD add on. Sony followed that up by offering a free 'Talladega Nights' Blu-ray with the first 500,000 PlayStation 3 units sold in the U.S.. Now today, HD DVD backer Toshiba has announced that it will give away *three* free HD DVD discs with every player sold for four months beginning on November 1st. With all these freebies, more people will likely have received free HD DVD/Blu-ray discs by the end of 2006 than will have actually paid for them."
[+] Games: Wii Outsells PS3, Blue-ray Outsells HD DVD 182 comments
njkid1, a regular contributor of GameDaily articles, passed us word that the Wii is handily outselling the PS3 in Japan. Famitsu parent company Enterbrain has figures showing that Nintendo sold 405,000 Wii units last month, while Sony sold 148,000 units of the PS3. While this is probably not something the folks at Sony are overjoyed about, they did have reason to crow this week. They've now announced that cumulative Blu-ray sales have passed the HD DVD format for the first time. Gamasutra has the word, from Sony itself, with some interesting supporting information. Most PS3 owners, it seems, have used their system to watch HD movies. Some full 80 percent plan to buy further HD titles in the future. This is further support for the VideoScan sales figures we discussed last week.
[+] Sony Set to Market Blu-ray as Winner of Format War 353 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Citing the recent sales numbers, Sony exec David Bishop is claiming that the high-def format war can officially be declared over. With a movie sale ratio of almost 2:1 Blu-ray discs are being declared the victor over rival HD-DVD by Blu-ray supporter Sony. 'And yet while all agree that it was a strong month for Blu-ray, opinion is split on whether the surge in sales is an indicator of stronger user adaption of Blu-ray compared to HD DVD, or simply a reflection of the larger number of new Blu-ray titles that hit the market over the month -- 25 new Blu-ray titles were released in January, compared to just 11 titles on HD DVD for the same period.'"
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  • by alshithead (981606) * on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:00PM (#17848854)
    This hurts the consumer on way too many levels. You might as well release music in several formats...Oh, wait a minute...where's my 8 track player? Ooh! I just found my Betamax VCR. Screw this DVD shit, it won't last out the year's end.
    • Yep...and... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by msauve (701917) on Thursday February 01 2007, @04:28PM (#17850274)
      As to the question "Why are consumers being denied the information they need to make a considered choice?," I answer: I have all the information I need. With the DRM constraints, I don't intend to buy discs of either format.
        • Simple... (Score:5, Informative)

          by msauve (701917) on Thursday February 01 2007, @05:02PM (#17850906)
          I'll be patient, and TiVo it when it's on cable.
          • Re:Yep...and... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by alshithead (981606) * on Thursday February 01 2007, @04:58PM (#17850832)
            "Download a bootleg (and consequently DRM-Free) copy off the internet. Duh!!!"

            I'll take the "Duh!!!" in regards to everyday folks. But, what if you are in a position with a security clearance? The powers that be take a dim view of any legal violations, civil, state, or federal. Would you risk YOUR job and/or retirement over a movie? The option you suggest doesn't work for everybody...

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      History has shown time and time again over the past 25 years that consumers generally do not adopt Sony's proprietary formats: Betamax, Minidiscs, MemoryStick, SACD, UMD, and now Blu-Ray. Things that they develop in conjunction with other companies like CDs and eventually DVDs gained widespread adoption. I won't buy into Blu-Ray simply because it's a stupid name. "Buy this new movie on VHS, DVD or Blu-Ray Disc". "Blu-Ray Disc" sounds retarded compared to "DVD" which rolls off the tongue.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        It might not be the best name, but it's a lot easier to say "Blu-Ray" than "HD-DVD"
  • It's pretty obvious to me, the data is proprietary, so it's easier to keep it hidden than to start the "I'm selling more than you are" war.
  • by TopSpin (753) * on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:11PM (#17849006) Journal
    Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!

    You know, the Blu-ray/HD DVD squabble is not actually important. You rights aren't being trampled on. Most people couldn't care less about it; they're happy with their DVDs and don't mind letting you *philes hash it out with your disposable income.

    Get a grip.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      . . .they're happy with their DVDs. . .

      And what would make them even happier is not a new format, but a DVD "Redbook."

      KFG
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I wasn't happy with DVD when it came out. The only things I like about DVD are no artifacting and degradation with time and easy navigation of the disc (no rewinding).

      DVD doesn't look great, its essentially the same quality as broadcast TV. Now if you believe broadcast TV looks great, then sorry, but we can do a lot better. I don't pay to go to the cinema to stand on sticky floors, put up with belching behind me or for the overpriced condiments, its for the higher quality sound and picture.

      For the price
      • by Wdomburg (141264) on Thursday February 01 2007, @07:11PM (#17852646)
        DVD doesn't look great, its essentially the same quality as broadcast TV.

        You should probably get your eyes checked or maybe buy better equipment. DVD's horizontal resolution about 720. Broadcast "quality" is 330 and VHS is 240. Even without a progressive scan display it's pretty far from "essentially the same quality".
  • by llZENll (545605) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:12PM (#17849026)
    Dual format players will win this war. As soon as this sells below $500, all other makers will follow. Right now it sells for $1200.

    "Well this is more like it. After waiting forever between the initial announcement and first retail availability of the first wave of HD disc devices, LG's BH100 really rocketed to the shelves, and has just participated in its first unboxing (that we've heard of) mere weeks after the announcement at CES. We're a little disconcerted by that big front-and-center dent on the box, but the unit itself looks just dandy, and gadgetaholic promises a full review in the coming days. But that's not what you're here for, you just wanted to see this little guy ripped from his Styrofoam cocoon and flap his little Red and Blue wings, so hit the read link for the whole event. Fly, BH100, fly."

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/22/lgs-bh100-super -multi-player-unboxed/ [engadget.com]
    • I have mod points and I figured this would be a good discussion, but I'll reply to you instead.

      First, dual format players CAN'T WIN the war. They are not a format. Even if everyone gets a dual format player for free from the government tomorrow, consumers will still buy more of one format than the other until people stop making one format. Dual format PLAYERS may win the PLAYER WAR, but the disc format war has no real hybrids right now.

      Second, these discussions constantly suppose that someone will win. I've seen one comment so far that I agree with: by the time these things reach something akin to a critical mass or become big successes, I think Internet distribution will have won the war or come very close. These things may just be failed. Too early for cheap prices and large HDTV adoption, too late to enjoy a long advantage over internet distribution.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by the time these things reach something akin to a critical mass or become big successes, I think Internet distribution will have won the war or come very close

        That is utterly impossible in a world in which no broadband provider will let you download more than about 90GB per month on a regular basis; That's what, a couple of Blu-Ray discs? Even at the rates we go through netflix, I would use that up just downloading DVD ISOs, let alone HD video.

        We are going to have to see a broadband revolution in this c

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      LG's player isn't a true dual format player. It doesn't qualify for HD DVD logo-ing. I believe it doesn't handle any HDi, so it plays HD DVD advanced content titles (all Hollywood discs are adv. content, not standard content) in some manner it makes up. Take your chances.
  • From TFA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jonny_eh (765306) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:13PM (#17849036)
    "According to VideoScan, during the first two weeks of January, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by more than a 2:1 margin."

    Why does the summary make Blu-Ray sound better by saying it outsold HD DVD by 3:1 in 1 week? Do I detect a bias?
    • Re:From TFA (Score:4, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo (153816) <martin.espinoza@gmail.com> on Thursday February 01 2007, @04:13PM (#17850000) Homepage Journal

      Why does the summary make Blu-Ray sound better by saying it outsold HD DVD by 3:1 in 1 week? Do I detect a bias?

      YES! But that's not precisely why. Here's what the FS says:

      almost three Blu-ray discs sold for every one HD DVD during the first week of January

      Now, here is what the FA says:

      According to VideoScan, during the first two weeks of January, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by more than a 2:1 margin. It should be noted that the two weeks in question saw only two new high-def disc releases -- both from Blu-ray ('The Covenant' on Jan 2, and 'Crank' on Jan 9).

      In other words, this is a momentary blip on the chart, and nothing to be excited about itself, unless it continues, in which case you can call it a trend. Right now though, it's not a big deal.

      I sincerely hope that these people are not paid astroturfers, but if they are, it would explain why Sony has to charge so much for the PS3. I've had more people misinterpret my posts and tell outright lies in order to discredit them in the last couple days than I ever have before, and most of those comments are responses to things I've said about the PS3 or Sony.

  • by dracocat (554744) <dracocat@hotmail.com> on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:14PM (#17849048)
    Save yourself some time, no need to read any more comments. Here is a summary of all replies about to follow this article, in no particular order.
    • Sony has never won a format war, haven't they learned their lesson? Just look at Beta and MD.
    • Sony has had great sucess with their formats, can you say CD?
    • There is no reason for anybody to even upgrade past DVD. There is simply no big difference between any new formats and DVD
    • I simply will not buy anything from Sony after the whole DRM fiasco
    • HD will win out because there will be more HD players on the market because of the cheap HD DVD add on for the Xbox 360
    • There will be more Blue Ray players on the market because every PS3 comes with a Blue Ray drive
    • Nobody will buy the HD DVD drive addon for the Xbox 360 because it is too expensive
    • Nobody will buy the PS3 because it is too expensive
    • Blue Ray disks hold more information than HD DVD disks and so Blue Ray will win
    • HD DVD disks hold more information than Blue Ray disks so HD DVD will win
    • What are you guys talking about? Its all about Nintendo
    • Neither format will win because people will be downloading movies from here on our
    • The name HD DVD just sounds better than Blue Ray
    • The name Blue Ray just sounds better than HD DVD
    • Movies these days are worthless I havent watched a movie in 25 years
    Hopes this helps shed some light on which format is better.
  • Misleading? (Score:2, Interesting)

    So, how many of these Blu-ray hardware sales actually *movies*? You know, the stuff that HD-DVD is a direct competitor for? If the format becomes something that's only economically viable to be used as game media for the PS3 then it becomes as relevant as SNES cartridges in the long run.
  • by SeaFox (739806) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:18PM (#17849138)

    Why are consumers being denied the information they need to make a considered choice?"
    I suppose that is supposed to read informed choice? DUH. Why would a company want consumers to make a buying decision based on such metrics as popularity and facts? They would much rather have the entire process controlled by their marketing departments.
  • Pricing? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by WndrBr3d (219963) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:20PM (#17849156) Homepage Journal
    The one thought that keeps swirling through my mind when I browse through the HD movie section at my local Best Buy is, Who the HECK figures out the pricing for these things?!

    How can Little Man cost $29 but the Fifth Element is only $19!?

    I've owned the HD-DVD drive for the XBox360 now since it's launch and the only HD disc I currently own is the free copy of King Kong that came with it.

    I'm floored that new titles aren't being released in both DVD and in their respective HD format at the same time. The studios seem too busy trying to 'catch up', releasing titles already available on DVD. I know they're doing this in hopes that people purchase both the DVD version and HD version when it's released later, in an effort to double their money.

    Makes me want to vomit.

    • I'm floored that new titles aren't being released in both DVD and in their respective HD format at the same time. The studios seem too busy trying to 'catch up', releasing titles already available on DVD. I know they're doing this in hopes that people purchase both the DVD version and HD version when it's released later, in an effort to double their money.

      What's to say that people will buy the HD version when it's released? Look, I own an HD TV, and let me tell you, DVD is pretty good for those too. I d

  • Just for a moment, forget the consumer (everyone else is doing it...)

    Whatever your feelings re PS3, you know it's going to sell 10 million units plus in a short time. In the meantime, only relatively small numbers of consumers are actually buying either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players. DVD is good enough for most. Although the PS3 isn't primarily a Blu-Ray player, it does have that feature.

    So when you're a movie studio or retailer and looking at the current / expected install base of HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray capable
  • It's more like the Digg vs. Slashdot war, with most Digg stories reporting dismal PS3 sales and most slashdot stories reporting good BD sales.

    One thing is certain. Only one device can play 30Mbit H.264 HD files from a network and it's a BD player.

    • Screw teh Digg! Ise been slashdorking 4evar! I was always an anonymouse coward unktil lest year but nowse I got's edumacatioins sow's I got a intarnet handle wif slashdork...

      Okay, just having some fun. But, I much prefer Slashdot over Digg. There are an awful lot of Slashdot folks who have been around a long time and actually give enough of a fuck to post intelligent thoughts.

      Woo hoo!!! Off to my Pr0n collection now!!!
  • Vouchers were given inside Playstation 3 boxes for free Blu-Ray discs. Everyone who bought a PS3 simply for gaming went out and used these vouchers up.

    The more interesting comparison would be the number of HDDVD's sold against the number of Blu-Ray discs sold - vouchers used.
  • This whole Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD clusterfuck won't be resolved for me until Criterion decides to support on or the other formats. The current movie selection on both formats is pathetic. Just like with quality games driving console adoption, it's the quality movies that matter. What, I'm going to spend ~$500 so I can watch crap like _Underworld Evolution_ in High Definition? Christ, I don't want to watch that SD! (Perhaps when Kate Beckinsale rips her clothes off on camera I'll watch another one of those shitt
  • by acomj (20611) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:39PM (#17849446) Homepage
    I've been thinking about this. Why are consumer electronics companies so eager to stick DRM on products (typically they dislike it, it ads to cost and slows consumer adoption).

    Because the content companies (Motion Picture folks) have to buy in. If there was just one format the consumer electronic companies could say, high def disk, take it or leave it. However since there are two formats the Studios can choose the format the offers the most protection. In a way because of the format war the studios got to say "Add DRM" or we'll go with the competeing HD format here.

    It doesn't help that sony owns electronics and content, and the content part is clearly running the company.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Ha! It's not over yet, and there hasn't been a format war that Sony has won, so I wouldn't count that chicken before it's hatched.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The usual reply to your comment on Slashdot would ne "You forgot about audio CD?" or "What about 3.5" floppies?" but I'll add another format to the list: 8mm tapes. They were quite dominant before the spread of MiniDV.
    • Re:Surprised (Score:5, Interesting)

      by qortra (591818) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:13PM (#17849034) Homepage
      That comment is insane for so many reasons. Not the least of which being that Blu-Ray could "beat" HD-DVD and still lose. If they 5 times as many Blu-Ray media as HD-DVD, but only sell 10,000 units per year, then they fail. From TFA:

      you won't find any hard sales figures here

      In other words, we have no idea how either format is doing on an absolute scale.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          You completely misunderstood my post. The point is not that HD-DVD is "gonna win": the point is simply that Sony could beat HD-DVD and still fail to make a profitable product. As long as the media is pricey and not backwards compatible with pervasive existing equipment, it's going to be a tough sell. Let's remember that 5,000,000 PS3 units sold in the US (reasonable for year or so of sales) translates into about 4.5% market saturation (assuming about 110 million households in the US). That's pretty puny
        • Re:Surprised (Score:4, Insightful)

          by AudioEfex (637163) on Thursday February 01 2007, @06:54PM (#17852446)
          The thing is, there are 100,000 PS3s selling in the US alone per week, plus maybe 5000 other BD players. The market for Blu-Ray is just increasing enormously and the HD-DVD market isn't. And Japan is almost entirely Blu-Ray. And Europe is neither (you'll be lucky to see BD or HD-DVDs outside of flagship stores, or airports) but will become instantly Blu-Ray when the PS3 launches.

          The problem with that argument is that the PS3 is not a Blu-Ray movie player, first and foremost : it is a gaming system.

          The fact of the matter is that, yes, there are more Blu-Ray capable machines at the moment. But what is of question is how many of those machines is being used largely for watching films. By contrast, every single XBOX 360 add-on is exclusively for watching films, as MS has explicitly stated that no games will come out this generation that utilize the add-on. When you keep that in mind, the supposed install base numbers look much closer. Beyond that, it must be recognized how tiny the numbers we are talking about anyway - neither of them are signifigant at all at this point in terms of mass consumers.

          The truth is, the format war is far from over. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are both going to remain niche formats for quite some time. Just because Sony shoe-horned a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 that most of their target audience would have bought anyway, does not a format war win. Especially since PS3's are rotting on the shelves (my local BB has signs up all over saying, "WE HAVE THEM!" and the signs are actually getting dusty they've been up for so long...), their impact over the life of the formats just may not be that signifigant.

          Remember the race between the turtle and the hare?

          AE

    • Re:Surprised (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman (238306) * <akaimbatman@g m a i l . c om> on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:20PM (#17849172) Homepage Journal
      FWIW, Bluray is superior to HD-DVD in many ways. So it has had (and still has) a good chance of "winning" against the competing HD-DVD format. The real problem with such a "win" is that it's not much of a "win" if you claim victory in the battle, but lose the war. Allow me to explain.

      Despite all the hype surrounding HD-this and High Resolution-that, there hasn't been a major push by consumers to move to the new High Definition televisions. As it would seem, the vast majority of consumers are happy enough with their TVs as they are today. The real consumer push has been a much different one than quality.

      Consumers today are looking for convenience first and quality second. They want to be able to sit in their living room and chose what they want to watch (or play!), when they want to watch it. Nothing makes this more apparent than the popularity of the TIVO and other DVR players.

      These players timeshift shows from their regular schedules to a time that is more convenient for the viewer. Thanks to thier ties with online TV schedules, a user can setup his DVR to record dozens of shows. When he feels in the mood to watch something, he can then chose from the options at his disposal.

      However, this process does have its drawbacks. The first one is that DVRs cause a drop in show quality. In order to balance real-time recording with space constraints, these devices must throw away a lot of information about the television stream. As a result, the quality drops.

      The second drawback is that these devices have limited capacity. Once they are full, you must remove some material in order to make room for more material. This biases the devices against consumers who watch television on few, rare occasions, but enjoy a wide variety of entertainment.

      The solution on the horizon is not digital transmissions over the airwaves, by digital cable, or even by plastic frisbees. The solution is to stream the video directly to the consumer over a broadband internet line. This allows the consumer to access a wide variety of quality material, but without the same storage drawbacks that limit DVR devices.

      So what you'll see in the future is that the Bluray vs. HD-DVD war won't matter. The real winner will be Internet ala carte providers, who give the consumers what they want, when they want it. Sony shouldn't fear HD-DVD. They should fear Apple iTunes.
      • Re:Surprised (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Orange Crush (934731) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:32PM (#17849344)

        The first one is that DVRs cause a drop in show quality. In order to balance real-time recording with space constraints, these devices must throw away a lot of information about the television stream. As a result, the quality drops.

        Not always. If the channel is coming in to the box digitally, it does not usually get transcoded. It's much easier for the box to record the bits directly. Video quality and ease of use are vastly superior to VHS.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          "Not always. If the channel is coming in to the box digitally, it does not usually get transcoded."

          I'd like to amend that a bit - in consumer DVRs, high-def content NEVER gets transcoded. It is always simply dumped to disc without decoding and/or reencoding. The transport stream is only decoded for playback.

          Realtime high definition encoders simply do not exist, at least not at the price points needed to be put into a consumer device. The closest thing is the Slingbox PRO, but that downscales to SD before
      • MOD PARENT UP (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Luscious868 (679143) on Thursday February 01 2007, @03:41PM (#17849488)
        You raise a very insightful point about quality and convenience. Think of the tape to CD and VHS to DVD leaps. Both new technologies had quality improvements over their predecessors but I'd argue neither would have taken off as quickly as they did (or at all) without the massive improvements in convenience. No more having to fast forward or rewind a tape or VHS movie to get to your favorite track or part of the movie, with the new format you could get where you wanted to go in a second. That was a huge factor when I moved to from tapes to CD's and it also came into play with DVD's. Rewinding a movie before you watched it or before returning it to the video store was a massive pain in the butt. You no longer had to worry about a bad player shredding the DVD or CD which was also a huge plus with both moves. Quality was more of a factor to convince me to move from VHS to DVD but you better believe that if that quality improvement didn't also include the improvements in convenience (e.g. it was still tape based or a single movie had to be split onto multiple discs) then I don't think the format would have caught on.
      • Re:Surprised (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Abcd1234 (188840) on Thursday February 01 2007, @04:34PM (#17850386) Homepage
        What the hell are you talking about? For one, there is *NO* HD-DVR out there that encodes the material it's storing. None. Zero. Nada. There's simply too much video to make that realistic. Every one of these machines simply demodulates the QAM, pulls out the MPEG stream, and saves it to disk. That's it. No quality loss whatsoever.

        Second, storage is a solved problem. Harddisks get bigger every single day. It's simply not an issue. Granted, existing DVRs are a little lean on storage, but that will change with time (my Myth box at home has 250GB, and there are many with 1TB+ setups).

        Third, the very idea of Internet distribution of HD, which can be upwards of 7 *gigabytes per hour*, is simply laughable. There's no way in hell that would get popular enough to sway the HD-DVD/Blu-ray battle in any way whatsoever.
            • Re:Surprised (Score:4, Insightful)

              by AKAImBatman (238306) * <akaimbatman@g m a i l . c om> on Thursday February 01 2007, @05:12PM (#17851042) Homepage Journal
              No. I'm talking about convenience > quality. Quality is not a driving factor at the moment, save for the early adopters. Consumers would much rather have convenience with acceptable quality rather than high quality with no noticeable increase in convenience. (If anything, the high def stuff is a mild decrease.)

              Thus a minor quality upgrade (e.g. iTunes is 480p) coupled with a major increase in convenience is going to win the day; not the High Def frisbees. In addition, consumers will soon be able to have their cake and eat it too. Microsoft is already showing that Hi Def downloads that take advantage of more modern compression methods are possible on the higher end of the consumer bandwidth scale. The quality isn't quite as good as a $30 frisbee, but that's not going to swap most consumers. They can get the movie or TV show they want, when they want it, and for the price they want it.
          • Besides, I don't think you give consumers enough credit.

            I work in customer service and tech support. I am aware of exactly how much credit I need to give them. Which is slightly more then my dog.
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              On the other hand, the people who end up calling tech support are quite often not the most adept when it comes to technology. So your sample is hardly representatory.
    • All the people that bought a PS3 for christmas ran out to buy a blu ray to play on it. It's a temporary bump in sales.