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Canadian Movie Piracy Claims Mostly Fiction?
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Feb 05, 2007 01:01 PM
from the i-never-would-have-guessed dept.
from the i-never-would-have-guessed dept.
Justin Primus writes "Michael Geist's weekly column dismantles recent claims that Canada is the world's leading movie piracy haven. The article uses the industry's own data to demonstrate that the assertions about movie bootlegging and its economic impact are greatly exaggerated and that the MPAA's arguments about Canadian copyright law are misleading. I particularly liked how Geist dug up the fact that the MPAA itself says that there have only been 179 movies recorded with a camcorder over the past three years out of the 1,400 that the Hollywood studios released."
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Your Rights Online: Canada Responsible for 50% of Movie Piracy 459 comments
westcoaster004 writes "Hollywood is blaming Canada as being the source for at least 50% of of the world's pirated movies. According to an investigation by Twentieth Century Fox, most of the recording is taking place in Montreal theatres where films are released in both English and French. This has led to consideration of delaying movie releases in Canada. Their problem is that the Canadian Copyright Act, as well as the policies of local police forces, makes it difficult to come down especially hard on perpetrators. Convicting someone is apparently rather difficult, almost requiring a law officer to have a 'smoking camcorder' in the hands of the accused. Hence, the consideration of more drastic measures."
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Warner Brothers Pulls Canadian Previews 273 comments
A number of readers let us know that Reuters and others are reporting that Warner Brothers is canceling movie previews in Canadian theaters, starting with Oceans Thirteen. A Warner VP said, "Within the first week of a film's release, you can almost be certain that somewhere out there a Canadian copy will show up." Recently, the International Intellectual Property Association placed Canada on its Priority Watch List, along with the likes of Argentina, China, Russia, Turkey, and Venezuela. This community knows, thanks to Michael Geist, that the claim is mostly ficiton.
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Mostly? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Mostly? (Score:5, Funny)
Not so fast - them's fighting words... You need to know that within the Nation of Canada there's also the Nation of Quebec and the hundred or so First Nations. Then there's the Nunavut Territory, which is actually the Innu Nation. And don't forget the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, which was a Sovereign Nation until it grudgingly allowed the rest of Canada to join them in 1949 (and is still embroiled in a territorial dispute with the Nation of Quebec). Of course, now that we're down this path we're going to have to deal with the Metis Nation, the Acadian Nation and who knows what else. Eventually we'll reach the point where we have to recognize the Nation of the Borough of East York.
In short, the whole "Nation" thing is a bit messy up here, so it's really better for everyone if you just don't bring it up. To avoid similar confusion in the future, I suggest you go with the universally accepted moniker of "The 51st State".
Parent
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Reminds me of John Candy's quip that he wasn't really sure if Canada had produced more famous comedians than any other state.
Thanks - you have now supplemented Barbara Budd as my primary source on the Dilemma Canadienes.
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Actually, that would be the Inuit. The Innu nation is in Labrador (where the Inuit live too, but farther north and on the coast).
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Our country's full name is Canada not the Dominion of Canada. The British North America Act (1867) [wikisource.org] declares "the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick shall form and be One Dominion under the Name of Canada; and on and after that Day those Three Provinces shall form and be One Dominion under that Name accordingly." (emphasis added)
In this context the word "dominion" means "nation".
The term "Dominion of Canada" was never officially recognized and has not been in reg
You parsed it wrong (Score:2)
Broken Record (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Broken Record (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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And the Hobbits sound like teenage girls and I didn't realize Middle Earth had cell phones.
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That would probably be the ABA, the American Booksellers Association. They intimidate even the publishers. (In how many other industries can the retailer get a refund on units ordered just by ripping off the cover (boxtop, whatever) and sending that back?) Not that all publishers are saints (some are, but the bigger houses tend to be like corporations everywhere).
And books are still popul
eh? (Score:2, Interesting)
*I say opinion because there are no facts about piracy beyond the fact that it does happen, and it may or may not be good for the industry depending on who you ask.
proof! (Score:5, Funny)
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When camcorders first came out, a school friend's father set up a tripod in the projection room and taped a lovely copy of a then-popular movie. You could barely hear a low whir in the background from the projector...
Can't get more "inside" than that.
--dave
Probably the most successful 13% (Score:3, Insightful)
The movie industry, like the music industry, releases a large number of movies, but makes most of the money from a small number of hits. Since pirates will tend to target the most popular films, that 13% of films probably represents the majority of revenues and profits.
Of course, it's very difficult to determine just how much loss the existence of pirate versions of those films represents to the industry. It might be significant; it might be quite small. The MPAA hardly has a record of being honest in
Flawed Stats (Score:3, Informative)
Basically, don't trust in-house statistics, unless you can reproduce the results yourself.
Re:Flawed Stats (Score:5, Insightful)
MPAA: No, because of privacy concerns.
You: Ah, well, then you can surely give me the samples you worked with?
MPAA: No, those are private as well. As are our methods.
You: Can I at least see the results?
MPAA: No, those are especially private.
You: Well, what can you give me?
MPAA: Nothing. There never was a statistic. These are not the droids you are looking for. We're not here. *hides behind a tree*
Parent
Shrink rate (Score:4, Insightful)
Look, I disagree with the RIAA as much as the next
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I don't bother to pirate much anymore because their DVD release schedules are so fast -- but if someone does need to be seen I certainly wouldn't bother with a 700MB CAM.
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I guess nowdays most of the film downloads are from series such as Lost, Heroes, etc... Who would bother to download an entire DVD when is so much easier to rent one, and them rip it?
And, yet again... why rip it when is soooo much easier to rent it again?
And how many in Canada? (Score:2, Insightful)
The total FOR THE WORLD piracy rate is 11% OF THEATRICAL RELEASES according to the MPAAs own numbers.
Also just because 11% of the worldwide movies are camcordered doesn't mean they lost 11% of their movie revenues. So it's not even wastage. How did Star War do? It was heavily camcordered in the 1980's.
Re:Shrink rate (Score:5, Insightful)
Where does the number 179 come from? Is that the number of arrests made? If so, then that's 179 out of however many million Canadians went to see those 1400 movies. Or maybe that's 179 releases made from camcorders in Canadian theatres, in which case all 179 might have come from one person or a small group of people. Maybe 179 incidents only accounts for ten movies with multiple recording attemps done for those movies.
It's like if you analyzed a large chain store and found that 11% of all the individual items they sold were stolen somewhere within the chain. Maybe only one of each item was stolen, meaning on average less than one per store, but somehow you end up with a bogus 11% shrink rate because you don't know how to work the numbers properly (or because you do and you are dishonest).
Parent
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That's not necessarily 11%.
Where does the number 179 come from? Is that the number of arrests made? If so, then that's 179 out of however many million Canadians went to see those 1400 movies. Or maybe that's 179 releases made from camcorders in Canadian theatres, in which case all 179 might have come from one person or a small group of people. Maybe 179 incidents only accounts for ten movies with multiple recording attemps done for those movies.
Rather than speculating, you can just read the cited document(I know wild speculation is more fun):
"MPAA analysis of counterfeit copies of recently released movies on DVD seized throughout the world reveals that more than 90 percent can be sourced back to theatrical camcording. As of August 2006, MPAA had documented 179 member company titles that had been stolen in this manner since 2004, providing the source copies for pirate DVDs discovered in the markets of 46 other countries on every inhabited conti
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In retail you're talking more along the lines of saying - "OK this year we've had 3% shrinkage, of that 80% was by shoplifting and 20% was credit/check fraud. Looking into the fraud, we can see that only 11% of the products we stock are ever stolen by fraud." This should be followed by the question "WTF is wrong with the r
"Stealing" (Score:2, Interesting)
And when someone tries to equate 11% of 1400 theater releases being filmed by camcorder-wielding pirates to an 11% shrink rate, well that's called FUD . Now, if the box-office receipts of 179 theaters were stolen by thieves - that I'd call an 11
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99% of the movies that are released get pirated. Out of all those pirated movies, only 11% are from bad cam recording. The rest are mostly DVD rips a bit later, DVD rips of advance projection or review copies or again for oscar nominations.
The author point is not that few movies are pirated (as stated, most movies are already available in pirated form), but that the camcording in the movie theater is a marginal form (mos
Re:Shrink rate (Score:4, Insightful)
Faulty comparison. For that to be valid, then after somebody camcords a movie, nobody pays ticket price any more. Taking something off a retail store shelf makes that particular item unavailable for anyone else to buy, so it is a real loss. A cam copy may cut in to movie ticket sales slightly, but it doesn't make the movie no longer available in the theatre.
You'd have a somewhat better comparison (although still flawed) if pirates were holding up the theatres and stealing the reels of film.
Parent
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Hmm.... (Score:2)
Sounds like some Hollywood script writers are working for the MPAA.
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The reality is... (Score:5, Insightful)
You want to know why ticket sales are down... Ask yourself this...What is the last movies that you just had to see?
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Unfortunately, there HAVE been a few movies in the past few years that I just -had- to see. As many as when I was a kid, and I -know- I was less picky when I was a kid. A few that I remember off the top of my head:
Star Wars Ep 1 (2 was a must-see, but disappointed.)
Epic Movie (Yeah, that was just last week)
Aeon Flux
War of the Worlds
Signs
Lady in the Water
And I'm sure there were quite a few others, as I avidly looked forward to going to the movie theatre ab
Re:The reality is... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
MPAA's most successful tactic... (Score:5, Funny)
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But people record them anyway, regardless of how bad they are.
Its like Blackbeard plundering Pogs...
I don't know why... (Score:3, Insightful)
FYI clarrification (Score:4, Insightful)
That technique is just one of the methods and is arguably the worst way to pirate. A lot of films get bootlegged during post production and often show up before the film is released in theaters. Waterworld showed up in Russia as this chaotic mix of dailies and some cut scenes, not that the final release was much better. The most popular way to pirate has to be ripped DVDs. My friends in distribution call them $20 masters. You buy one copy and use it as a master recording. I shot a couple of low budget films and my distributor told me he saw bootlegs selling for a $1 in Malaysia right next to 100 mill Hollywood films also selling for $1. There is no market in South East Asia for domestic films, they're all pirated and sold openly. I think you'll find there are pirates of every film made. Pirating is largely free and if they are reselling the pirates DVDs are cheap to burn.
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MPAA lies - film at eleven! (Score:2)
To paraphrase Mark Twain... (Score:3, Insightful)
Served its purpose... (Score:4, Insightful)
The purpose of the hype was to provide "justification" for Bev Oda to push for the reforms that she and the content industry have been working on. If this goes as I expect, watch for some more sabre-rattling headlines to come, followed quickly by a copyright reform bill that will address the content industry's wish list.
As much as I don't want another election, I hope the Conservatives' upcoming budget is defeated, so that any of Oda's bills will die on the table when the government falls.
Re:Served its purpose... (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that if it isn't Oda, it'll be somebody else. The movie and music industries will just turn their attention to the next Heritage Minister. No matter what political party is in power, the movie and music industry will always shmooze with the government to get their way.
Parent
Incentive to watch a movie at the movie theatres? (Score:2, Insightful)
Real Piracy (Score:4, Interesting)
Location: somewhere in the former Eastern Bloc (I can't remember the actual city)
Film lands at airport and is sent out to a series of theaters via courier. Except that the courier van is actual a portable dubbing studio on wheels (worth 100's of k's). The pirates took a couple of hours to do all the deliveries and by that time had a pristine digital copy of the movie.
The way they were caught was the studio inserted unique frames in to every copy of the print made (1000's of prints around the world). They were able to nail it down to an area and then sent investigators to watch for the projectionist to make the copies. When that panned out, they finally figured out that it was being done by the courier company.