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Canadian Copyright Group Wants iPod Tax
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Feb 11, 2007 09:00 PM
from the oh-and-5-bucks-for-the-earbuds dept.
from the oh-and-5-bucks-for-the-earbuds dept.
soulxtc writes "Unable to define memory as a 'recording medium,' Canada's Private Copyright Collective goes directly after portable music player devices, memory cards, and anything else that can be used to make private copies. The PCC submitted a proposal to the country's Copyright Board that suggests levies of $5 (Canadian) on devices with up to 1GB of memory, $25 for 1-10 GB, $50 for 10-30 GB, and $75 for over 30 GB. If approved, this propoal would increase the price of a 30-GB iPod by 26%. These collections are intended to compensate artists and labels for the losses they suffer when people 'illegally' copy or transfer music. The PCC is also seeking a new $2 to $10 tax on memory cards. The backbone of digital photography has become tangled up in the fight for making sure music companies get every nickel and dime they feel that they deserve."
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The Recording Industry's Failed Digital Strategy 227 comments
An anonymous reader sends us a link to the Toronto Star, where Michael Geist has a terrific article on how the record labels got the Internet completely wrong. While somewhat specific to Canada, the article' arguments are more broadly applicable. The article links together the misplaced reliance on DRM and the Canadian industry's advocacy for increasing levies on blank media to demonstrate just how wrong-headed this strategy has turned out to be.
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The very least they could do (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The very least they could do (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:The very least they could do (Score:5, Insightful)
Anything to get people to reject this so some common sence can be used.
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But what are they taxing? (Score:4, Interesting)
And if hard drives get taxed, what will you do when your current HD dies?
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Re:The very least they could do (Score:5, Insightful)
get real, man. portable players were here long before you heard about the iPod, much longer than the 1998 Diamond Rio. At the time there was no market, yet the players did exist.
also, economics 101: if you want to recover your money from a bad investment, you DO NOT raise the price. you lower it. you sell it to the first jerk that show up, then "Take The Money and Run".
Parent
Re:The very least they could do (Score:5, Insightful)
That theory applies to most of us, but in advanced Econ 748 - Economics for Cartels - we learn that it the previous economic principles are only valid when you fail to properly legislate yourself a revenue stream and business model.
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Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wouldn't it be grand if the people who distribute software started pulling this crap too? I'd feel obliged to take them up on their fees and start downloading away.
Parent
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Funny)
That'd be great since I wouldn't feel bad when I download OpenBSD instead of buying the CDs. The government would obviously give them their fair share of the levy...
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What's more... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Interesting)
So, this means that I get to download anything I want while in Canada free of guilt and cost... right?
Actually yeah. In Canada we pay a small tax on blank tapes and a special kind of recordable cd that nobody buys. The upside is that it is perfectly legal for Canadians to share their music with each other and to download music off the internet. Making files available on the web is brodcasting and therefore illegal, and charging money for copying is also illegal. However, if you want to set up an mp3 server at work, there is no law preventing that.
What it comes down to is you cannot tax illegal behaviour. Our courts would never accept it. So this isn't that scary, in that there an upside because they also enshrine the right to share music with those players. As for digital photography? That would result in too many pissed off taxpayers. Probably the worst would be some brand of memory card being released with an absurd tax just like for cds. And it will quietly be ignored by consumers, if they ever see it.
Finally, just because they are asking for $25 doesn't mean the politicians won't just give them $2.50 and tell them to keep quiet. We have a minority government right now so the politicians are far too busy kissing voter but.
Parent
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Informative)
Count yourself lucky, I guess. In the US, it is, for example, illegal not to declare your income from criminal activity to the IRS for taxation. (Which is why so many mobsters were eventually nailed for "tax evasion" as opposed to racketeering, extortion, theft, or murder.)
Further, I'm willing to bet that paying the tax would not protect you from a civil suit from the RIAA.
Parent
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Interesting)
"So it's just like the US (hint: Audio Home Recording Act)."
Nope. These two statements are true:
However, the following is not true:
Canadians pay a levy on recordable media. Because of this, in some circumstances it's legal for Canadians to share copyrighted music.
To be sure, lots of Canadians use the levy as moral justification to pirate as much music as they can, often citing the fact that artists are compensated by the levy (the reality is that it largely goes to Canadian artists). In other words, Canadians have their choice of 94 moral justifications for piracy, vs. the 93 that we in the United States have.
You're correct that the AHRA defines tariffs on some recordable media (including DAT machines, and those music CD-Rs that nobody buys). I'm sure there are lots of people who use the existence of this tariff as a moral justification for piracy, but the tariff certainly doesn't make it legal.
Parent
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, they say its for the artists - but once the PCC's "costs" are taken out - how much will be left.
How will they distribute the money? Proportional to the CD sales? To online sales? Will they just cut a check to every artists in canada? How will recompence non-canadian artists? Or is this just a scam fee going to the RIAA? (Just like the millions that the RIAA is making from their lawsuit business - that sure as hell ain't going to Justin Timberlake or Joni Mitchell)
Parent
Re:Should I move to Canda? (Score:5, Informative)
"How will they distribute the money? Proportional to the CD sales? To online sales? Will they just cut a check to every artists in canada? How will recompence non-canadian artists? Or is this just a scam fee going to the RIAA? (Just like the millions that the RIAA is making from their lawsuit business - that sure as hell ain't going to Justin Timberlake or Joni Mitchell)?"
The CPCC has a web site here [cpcc.ca]. Hit the link on the left labelled "Royalty distribution." It's a bit dry, but you should be able to get an answer to all of your questions.
Keep in mind that the CPCC != the CRIA (Canada's equivalent of the RIAA). The CPCC represents primarily artists.
Parent
Double dipping bastards (Score:4, Informative)
At the same time, the Canadian Recording Industry Association (think Canadian RIAA) is lobbying [slashdot.org] to eliminate fair use rights [slashdot.org] in order to "harmonize" with the US's draconian copyright system (the same harmonization that fucked over the Australians when they signed their free trade agreement with the US).
The attempt at double-dipping is truly mind boggling; it's depressing that no one in power cares.
Parent
You've gotta be shitting me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You've gotta be shitting me (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
I have an idea (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I have an idea (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Why do I need to pay this? I buy my music @ iTMS (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why do I need to pay this? I buy my music @ iTM (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Hey Canadians... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hey Canadians... (Score:5, Informative)
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Translation, please... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they're not. They're intended to set up yet another cash cow for large recording companies, irrespective of whether individuals put legal or illegal copies of music on their recording devices.
And no, they're not intended to supplement the compensation of artists, regardless.
Geez, that was easy to translate. The recording companies don't even try to hide their intentions behind competent PR any more.
Re:Translation, please... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's that? The artists don't get paid directly, only the big companies do? Indie musicians aren't appreciated or compensated? Doesn't seem right, does it?
Parent
What about the other memory? (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone call someone before the fabric of society is torn!
Re:What about the other memory? (Score:4, Funny)
As it is, you'd probably have to have DRM in your brain "add-on", and possibly pay a fee just to remember stuff, and be prohibited from communicating with your friends about certain things.
A penny for your thoughts? That's probably too cheap for the RIAA, MPAA etc.
Parent
Where's my brother's money, dammit? (Score:5, Interesting)
He's now been an artist on about six albums over the years, one of which was nominated for a Juno. Why, pray tell, has he not gotten a single bloody cent from this tariff?
If I didn't know better, I'd almost believe that the point of it isn't actually to reward the musicians! But of course, that's just crazy talk.
Re:Where's my brother's money, dammit? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Where's my brother's money, dammit? (Score:4, Informative)
From the seller's point of view, it's not so much that they have to charge the levy to customers, but that they themselves have to pay the levy to the CPCC for any CDs they sell (the exception being sales to customers that have a levy exemption such as my workplace). Of course, that expense is passed on to the customers in the form of higher prices. In the interest of full disclosure, I've seen some places with signs out by the CDs/DVDs outlining how much of the price goes to the levy.
In this case with the seller you point out, there are a couple possibilities. The first is that they are indeed paying the levy to the CPCC, but are not raising their prices because they subsidize their CD sales from their other sales. The second is that they are not playing by the rules. If they're not paying the levy, they're engaging in illegal activity, to the best of my knowledge.
One other thing to point out here is that since it's technically that the Canadian sellers pay the levy on CDs they sell as opposed to Canadian customers paying it on stuff they buy, it's perfectly legal for Canadians to purchase their CDs from the US and avoid the extra costs associated with the levy.
Parent
Revolution! (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, fuck it. Why wait for a revolution? Everybody get your guns and we'll meet down at the bar to plan our attack on these useless leeches.
Private Copying Levy (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know who the 'Private Copyright Collective' is, but this position is at odds with what we've been hearing about the Canadian Recording Industry Association's position - last heard as wanting to do away with the levy:
http://michaelgeist.ca/component/option,com_conte
I think this is an interesting tactic: collect levy at the front end, squeeze the availability of material via p2p networks through increased DRM on released materials.
Quite honestly, I don't really notice the levy at my pocketbook, and it does make for an entirely different legal landscape for p2p downloading. Michael Geist is the Guy in the Know about this landscape in Canada - check out his blog at the address above, there's reams of material there.
Why not make it an option? (Score:3, Insightful)
For people who want to go the iTunes route, they could simply turn down the contract.
Sigh. Something tells me the fact that they're trying to legislate this means they wouldn't go for my idea. Not enough free money in it for them, I'm guessing.
How do I send them my comments? (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Make unauthorized copying illegal.
2) Charge me for it.
Do they want a compulsory licensing scheme, as has been proposed by The Register, or do they want people to pay for each copy of music they purchase.
They should make up their damn minds, because they can't have their cake and eat it too.
why is it (Score:5, Funny)
Why don't they try something novel like oh.... selling a product to us?
I say we pass a law that everyone that buys a crowbar has to pay me a nickel, to make up for the losses I incur every time someone breaks into my house. ya.
Idiots. No, I take that back. By saying that I'm just insulting the idots and that's not fair for even them.
$40 for a 30 gig ipod? (Score:5, Insightful)
A 30gb ipod has 30000mb-
30000mb/700mb = 42.9 cdrs
42.9 cdrs x 30 cents = 1286 cents = 12.86 dollars
The association better have a very good reason why they want to charge for than 3x for the ipod compared to cd-rws.
Also, why stop with ipod? I can record information on harddrives too! Let's see, a typically hard drive in a computer has 250 gb. Obviously, if a 30gb ipod costs $40, a 250gb computer should cost (250/40) x $40 = $240! We all know computers are the main source of illegally downloaded mp3!
Re:$40 for a 30 gig ipod? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
They did it in Europe (Score:5, Informative)
The content providers contribute very little (Score:5, Informative)
I think the suppliers of blank media make a greater contribution to the economy and the tax base - and really shouldn't be victimised because some loud tax dodgers with good lobbyists want a special tax to feed themselves and drain from another portion of the economy.
Goverments are not supposed to be fee collectors for private companies - they are supposed to work in the interest of their nations.
It doesn't make sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Distribution of Tarriffs (Score:5, Funny)
So say if I download a few songs from groups such as Blood-Axe, mix it up with a bit of psy-trance from Finland, and then round it out with some Pendulum
What, they dont ?
So you mean despite the efforts of the original muso's involved, plus my time to mix and burn the CD - they just end up writing out yet another cheque to Celine Dion for all of our collective efforts ?
Fuck No !
Ive never wanted to even to listen to Celine Dion. Not ever !
But when I step into an elevator, or pass through a shoe shop - there she is, singing in the background and generally ruining my day.
I dont want to listen to her, but yet she still gets royalties out of me when I make my own CD, or backup my harddisk ?
That is so totally around the wrong fucking way. Man - I should be PAID by Celine Dion instead as compensation for HAVING to listen to any of her music, which is clearly against my wishes. She infringes upon my personal aural liberty, and yet
That is just WRONG on so many levels.
Seriously - does ANYONE go the effort of actually downloading Celine Dion music and burning it on CD's Why ? So they can hold hands with their so-called 'friends' and dance around and be silly between glasses of cheap wine ?
What they should do is just stick to selling normal CD's and iPods and things without the tarriffs, but give people the right, if they so choose, to pay $100 and get a licence key that will put their CD Burner or iPod into some sort of crappy 'Celine Dion Mode'. In the same way that you can take a perfectly good PC, and pay $400 or whatever it is to stick Vista on there - enabling 'Celine Dion' mode on the iPod will virtually trash the machine, in exchange for getting the 'Wow' of having it play Celine Dion songs
The iPod should just operate normally, unless you 'opt-in', and pay the fee, after which the iPod degrades itself to the point where it will play Celine Dion music. 'Look Herbert, my iPod it now plays Celine Dion !!'. 'Yayy !'. 'Hey Clarence, your iPod - its turning a pale shade of Green !!'. 'Its all about the Yayy !!'.
Its just WRONG
Just write some data to it, first (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:misleading headline and writeup (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:misleading headline and writeup (Score:5, Interesting)
They've also been sounding out the idea of a levy on hard drives.
Parent
Re:misleading headline and writeup (Score:4, Informative)
The PCC is also seeking a new $2 to $10 tax on memory cards. The backbone of digital photography has become tangled up in the fight for making sure music companies get every nickel and dime they feel that they deserve."
Parent
Re:Consumers (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Sweet... (Score:4, Funny)
It's a Canadian tradition. Why else would we legalize gay marriage?
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