Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Beginning Ruby

Posted by samzenpus on Mon Apr 23, 2007 01:30 PM
from the get-started dept.
TimHunter writes "Peter Cooper's Beginning Ruby: From Novice to Professional has two audiences, novices with no programming experience who want to learn Ruby as their first programming language, and veterans who want to add Ruby to their programming toolkit. Cooper's response to this challenge is a solid entry in the limited arena of Ruby tutorials. Even though the early chapters are marred by the occasional reference to an advanced topic, readers will appreciate the plentiful examples and thoughtful description of the Ruby language." Read below for the rest of Tim's review.


Ruby is an object-oriented programming language in the same family as Perl and Python. Ruby is very popular for writing web applications but also widely used for the general-purpose programming tasks. Ruby is available for Linux, Mac OS X, and Microsoft Windows. It is Open Source software with a commercially friendly license.

I agreed to review this book in particular because, even though the Ruby community has a strong tradition of encouraging newcomers, there are actually very few resources for the Ruby beginner. Ruby has gained a repuation for being easy to learn and therefore is attractive to people with limited or no programming experience. Novice programmers post almost daily requests for help and direction to the ruby-lang mailing list.

In addition to serving people with no progamming experience, Beginning Ruby is also aimed at experienced programmers who want to learn Ruby. Progammers coming from languages such as Java or C++ often struggle with Ruby's dynamic typing and (even with the recent explosion of Ruby-related books) the relative scarcity of documentation. Beginning Ruby tries to satisfy this audience by explaining Ruby's design, history and place in the programming world and including an extensive survey of the currently-available Ruby libraries.

Beginning Ruby is divided into 3 parts. The first part is aimed at neophytes. Experienced programmers, especially those experienced with object-oriented programming, will be able to skip chapter 2 and skim chapters 3 and 4.

The book starts simply. Chapter 1 isn't even about programming. This chapter explains how to install Ruby on Windows, OS X, and Linux. The instructions are thorough and aimed squarely at beginners. For example, Cooper explains how to get a command prompt on Windows and how to run Terminal.app on OS X.

Chapters 2 and 3 introduce fundamental concepts such as variables, expressions, control flow, classes, and objects. Cooper emphasizes experimentation. He says that irb, Ruby's interactive programming module, "provides the perfect environment for tweaking and testing the language, as you cannot do any real damage from within irb." Such assurances are helpful, especially to the beginner who may be slightly afraid that he's going to somehow make a mistake that will "break" his computer.

Explaining programming to beginners is hard. I've read a number of books that try to teach object-oriented programming concepts to people with no programming experience whatsoever. None were stunningly successful. This one isn't either. The problem is that books are linear, but there are simply too many things – concepts, keywords, tools – that have to be introduced nearly simultaneously and initially taken on faith. Cooper distracts his readers by peppering his text with too many "don't worry about this yet" disclaimers and assurances that explanations will appear later. His references C and Perl will be meaningless and possibly confusing to the beginning programmer.

Chapter 4, "Developing a Basic Ruby Application," starts by explaining what a text editor is and offering a few recommendations for text editors on Windows, OS X, and Linux. Then it guides the reader through his first real program, a script to read a text file and compute simple statistics such as the number of lines and words. This is a well-chosen example that will, when completed, make the student feel like he's accomplished something.

Chapter 5, "The Ruby Ecosystem," feels out-of-place. This chapter doesn't teach anything about Ruby programming. Instead it explains Ruby's history, introduces Ruby On Rails, and talks about the Open Source movement. Little, if any, of this material will be interesting to a fledgling programmer. The chapter finishes with a list of internet-based Ruby resources such as mailing lists, IRC, and blogs. All of this seems much better suited as an appendix and indeed the list of resources appears again in Appendix C.

Part 2, "The Core of Ruby," has a slower pace. With the very basic material covered, Beginning Ruby gets a better footing. Starting in this part the material is useful to both beginners and veterans.

This is probably as good a place as any to talk about the examples, which are numerous and very likely the best part of the book. Most of the the examples are short and to the point. A few extend over several pages. My overall impression is that they are well-chosen and well-coded. I especially like the way the examples appear on the page, visually distinctive but without interrupting the flow of the text. Source code for all of the examples may be downloaded from the Apress web site. However, even though the files are divided into a directory per chapter, the examples aren't numbered in the text so it's difficult to find the code for the example you're looking at. I ended up using grep to search for keywords in the sources.

Chapter 6 is a slower pass through Ruby, focusing on Ruby's object-orientation. Though fewer than part 1, there are still problems with references to concepts that have not yet been introduced. For example, Cooper uses the require method in the context of namespaces even though require has not been introduced. Indeed, it's not even necessary to mention namespaces at all in this chapter since the entire concept could've been held off until the next chapter, which explains how to create programs from code in multiple files.

The remaining chapters in this part start to address the needs of the serious Ruby programmer. This is a lot of ground to cover, including documentation, debugging, test-driven development, I/O, databases, and how to deploy Ruby programs. I particularly liked Cooper's thorough instructions for installing and creating RubyGems, Ruby's third-part library management system. There are so many topics to cover that each one gets only an introduction, but Cooper uniformly provides links to extended online documentation.

The last chapter in this part works through an even larger example, a Ruby "chat bot." This is an ingenious and entertaining example, the kind of program that, had I read it when I was just starting to learn programming, would have spent many happy hours tweaking. Call me a geek, but I got a chuckle out of the example on page 383 of two very stupid bots conversing.

Part 3 is called "Ruby Online." Of course it starts with the obligatory chapter on Ruby on Rails. I suppose publishers require such a chapter in all Ruby books, even though RoR is more than amply covered by other excellent books. I'm not a RoR programmer so I blew off this chapter.

Chapter 14 describes Ruby's support for the Internet via its HTTP, email, and FTP libraries. Chapter 15 covers other networking support libraries. As usual there are many excellent examples. Chapter 16 is a very good survey of the standard and add-on libraries that the serious Ruby programmer will find useful. Each library is demonstrated with an example, and Cooper provides a link to the complete documentation.

At the start of this review I said that Beginning Ruby is divided into 3 parts, but actually there are four. The last part consists of 3 appendices. Appendix A is a summarization of Part 2. Appendix B is sort of a "semi-reference" to Ruby's core libraries. This is not intended to be a complete reference. Instead, Cooper limits his discussion to the most useful methods of the core classes. As I mentioned earlier, Appendix C is a list of Internet-based Ruby resources such as web pages, mailing lists, IRC channels, and blogs.

I'm giving Beginning Ruby a 7. It's a good book for someone who wants to learn Ruby as his first programming language. It could be better. I liked Cooper's patient and thoughtful explanations about installing Ruby and RubyGems, how to use a command line, and what a text editor is for. Cooper supplies answers to all the typical Ruby-nuby questions, but his explanation of basic concepts is marred by the occasional confusing reference to advanced or even irrelevant topics. For the experienced programmer who learns best by reading and working through examples this book is a good choice. Dave Thomas' Programming Ruby, The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide (a.k.a. the Pickaxe) is a tough competitor, but each book has a considerable amount of material that is not found in the other book. For example the Pickaxe's core library reference is exhaustive but it has only a limited amount of the kind of tutorial explanations that is Beginning Ruby's strength. Beginning Ruby is available in PDF format from Apress' web site at about half the price of the paper book.

I have been programming Ruby as a hobby for over 5 years. Apress gave me a review copy of this book, but otherwise I have no connection to the author or publisher."


You can purchase Beginning Ruby: From Novice to Professional from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by smitty_one_each (243267) * on Monday April 23 2007, @01:52PM (#18843643) Homepage Journal
    How many different programming tools do we need?
    Wouldn't a venn diagram of key language features show substantial overlap?
    Ruby sounds like your typical well-done tool, which clearly has its audience.
    The only substantial criticism of Ruby I've ever heard is here:
    http://ciaranm.org/show_post/110 [ciaranm.org]
    Still, I'm wondering, what is the Next Big Thing? Is Python3000 going to rule the day? It's obviously 500 times better than Perl6. Then again, you've another round of C++ coming up for standardization: will svelte compiled languages recover some of the mindshare lost to these SUV scripting languages?
    Is the point of making some new tool the buzz of the day simply to sell books?
    • by jma05 (897351)
      > Is Python3000 going to rule the day? It's obviously 500 times better than Perl6

      Python 3000 is a cleanup of the inevitable evolutionary accretions that languages accumulate. Nothing ground breaking in this release feature-wise. So Python 3000 and Perl 6 are very different in scope. I (as a Python user), for one am very curious of what will come out of Perl 6.

      There is a big list at
      http://dev.perl.org/perl6/faq.html [perl.org]

      The ones I am interested are
      explicit strong typing (Python 3000 - optional interfaces)
      corou
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by arevos (659374)

      How many different programming tools do we need?
      Wouldn't a venn diagram of key language features show substantial overlap?

      Sure, but that's not to say they overlap in the same places. I've never come across two programming languages with exactly the same strengths and weaknesses.

      Ruby sounds like your typical well-done tool, which clearly has its audience.
      The only substantial criticism of Ruby I've ever heard is here

      Bah, you're obviously not looking hard enough :)

      You can write pages on criticism on any language. For instance, you could criticise Ruby on it's efficiency, it's dynamic typing, it's syntax quirks, it's libraries, it's readability, it's method naming conventions... The list is substantial, and many people disagree whether certain features are advantag

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by renoX (11677)
        Its support of Unicode should probably be added to the list of Ruby's quirks
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Sure, but that's not to say they overlap in the same places. I've never come across two programming languages with exactly the same strengths and weaknesses.

        There are plenty of pairs where difference are marginal, though. Say, C# and Java.

        Whatever it is, I'm hoping it will be functional ;)

        C# has first-class functions and lambdas already, and will get neat syntax for them in v3.0. Java is going to get lambdas in the next version. Even C++0x is going to get something similar, though not with true closure se

      • The fascinating thing about P6 is the amount of Haskell cross-pollinization at work.
        But if Ruby is a better Perl, will P6 be a redder Ruby?
  • Enlighten me (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pimterry (970628) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:00PM (#18843763)
    Why is Ruby suddenly the big buzz these days? My internets inform me it's a high level server-side language (python for websites). Isn't the most important thing in a server side language fast performance rather than quick development time? I found an article on coding horror [codinghorror.com] in the depths of my RSS reader talking about how Twitter are having no end of problems scaling their system, as they're using Ruby and it just isn't made for big, high traffic sites.
    If the main reason for writing server side software is web based applications, or at least dynamic content, isn't a huge factor in this how well it scales? Nobody makes sites to be used by 20 people.

    Finally, if anybody can explain it's popularity to me, should I learn it? I'm currently doing freelance web dev mostly in PHP, would it be useful? How? In my spare time I'm writing a AJAX web app with PHP back-end at the moment and it's mostly for my personal use (task tracking from anywhere), is Ruby good here with the limited audience the site'll have?
    • Re:Enlighten me (Score:4, Informative)

      by plams (744927) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:12PM (#18843919) Homepage

      Ruby isn't any more a server-side language than 68k assembler is. You've probably confused it with Ruby on Rails [rubyonrails.org] which is a framework (and an excellent one, I might add) for making websites. Compared to plain PHP it makes web development easy and fun and even supports stuff like AJAX out of the box.

      • Re:Enlighten me (Score:5, Informative)

        by CastrTroy (595695) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:35PM (#18844217) Homepage
        PHP isn't a framework. It's a programming language. You made the same mistake your parent did. You're comparing a framework (RoR) to a langauge (PHP). If you want to compare them, you'll have to compare it to another framework, like CakePHP.
        • by plams (744927)
          I disagree. Parent asked about PHP vs. RoR, and it highlights an interesting tendency; sites written in plain PHP are a common sight whereas sites written in plain Ruby are not (compared to RoR-powered sites). Framework or not, they're each self-sufficient and popular approaches to web development.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by rainman_bc (735332)
        OT, but I find a lot of people blur the distinction - they have only heard of Ruby in the context of Ruby on Rails, which is great, but Ruby itself is a fantastic language for all sorts of scripting - a better Perl than Perl, a better Python than Python...
          • by crayz (1056)
            My guess is: no one. Ruby is simply a great, enjoyable language. Have you actually used it yourself? I'm YA PHP->Ruby/Rails convert. Looking back to PHP code now makes me feel ill
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Nafai7 (53671)
      I've been doing PHP programming for years, and I really enjoyed working with it as a scripting language.

      That said, I started playing around with Ruby on Rails. Honestly, simple tasks like database access is so much simpler to handle in RoR it's just amazing. Creating database driven web sites, with one-to-many and many-to-many relationships is at least 10x quicker than in PHP. You have to get used to the MVC style of programming of course.

      I'm still doing PHP at work, but at some point will push for a swi
    • Re:Enlighten me (Score:5, Informative)

      by BrewerDude (716509) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:16PM (#18843987)

      Hi

      First, Ruby != Rails. Ruby is the programming language. Rails (or Ruby on Rails) is the web development framework. Ruby has been around a lot longer than Rails, but has certainly had it's popularity boosted by the buzz surrounding Rails.

      Second, I'd disagree that system performance is the biggest factor is selecting a web framework. Rails out of the box will support the load more most websites. There are many things that you can do to tune performance once you start getting enough page views for it to matter: caching pages, selectively replacing ActiveRecord's queries with raw SQL, etc. There are also people starting to focus on rails performance both from a developer's standpoint (e.g., the Rails Express Blog [railsexpress.de]) and from the hosting standpoint (e.g., Engine Yard [engineyard.com]).

      To me, the first and foremost goal of building a website is to get the functionality there quick in order to attract users. Once you've got that, and have rapidly been able to iterate to what the users want to see, then you can start worrying about performance. And, if your site really makes it big, you are going to have to do custom tuning work no matter what framework you've chosen.

      Personally, I've found Rails to be a wonderfully productive framework to use for web development

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by lewp (95638)

      Isn't the most important thing in a server side language fast performance rather than quick development time?

      Of course not. If it were, every high traffic website would be an NSAPI/ISAPI/Apache module. The vast majority of small to medium scale web apps are database limited much more than they are CPU limited on the web server. Twitter is such an app, as that coding horror article eventually mentions.

      As far as whether you should learn it, I get paid to write mostly PHP, and I'd say anybody else in my po

    • by misleb (129952)

      Finally, if anybody can explain it's popularity to me, should I learn it? I'm currently doing freelance web dev mostly in PHP, would it be useful? How? In my spare time I'm writing a AJAX web app with PHP back-end at the moment and it's mostly for my personal use (task tracking from anywhere), is Ruby good here with the limited audience the site'll have?

      All I can say is that after doing PHP on and off for a few years and then learning Ruby, I never want to touch another line of PHP shite again. Sorry, if

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by arevos (659374)

      Isn't the most important thing in a server side language fast performance rather than quick development time?

      Only if you need performance. Not every dynamic site on the web needs to serve a bazillion people a day, and throwing hardware at a problem is often far cheaper than employing a skilled software developer for longer.

      If the main reason for writing server side software is web based applications, or at least dynamic content, isn't a huge factor in this how well it scales? Nobody makes sites to be used by 20 people.

      No, but very few sites have to deal with 11000 page views per second, as Twitter reputedly does. Since Rails (just) handles this, then it should handle more modest needs as well.

      Also, the main problem Twitter has is the database bottleneck, not Ruby's speed (or lack thereof). Rails is designed

    • Why is Ruby suddenly the big buzz these days?

      Because its convenient for things people need to do, and the language at the center of a popular web framework.

      My internets inform me it's a high level server-side language (python for websites).

      Ruby isn't "python for websites". It would be closer to say its "python, but different". Sure, its most popular application is a web framework (Rails), but that's not the same thing as the language. Python has web frameworks like Rails too.

      I found an article on coding ho

  • first language (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lordholm (649770) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:48PM (#18844387) Homepage
    As a first programming language, if you are serious about programming, learn C or some Assembler, this will make you understand how a computer actually works and think before you write sucky code.

    I know Assembler, C, Obj-C, C++, Haskell, Bash, Java, Python, Matlab (or whatever that language is called) plus a few proprietary languages and toy/educational languages.

    Although, while I didn't start with C or Assembler (I started with C++ and felt it was a big piece of shit, though now days I find it quite useful; it is very abstracted though), this is certainly what I recommend for a person who is serious about programming.

    As a side note, it is interesting that at the school at which I took my MSc, they used Haskell as a first starting language, basically to tell everyone that "you don't know shit about programming" and bring the sufferers of the perfect programmer syndrome down to the ground. A very good thing indeed.

    Learn C or Assembler, and then learn Ruby, that is the way to go.
    • by misleb (129952)
      The problem with learning assembler is that there seems to be very little you can do these days that has any usefulness. I'm one to learn a language by starting a project and just learning as I go. But what kind of project can you do with assembler? I'd actually like to know because I skipped ASM long ago because I just couldn't find a use for it.. especially in these days of protected memory and total hardware abstraction.

      That said, C is probably a good start. If only so you realize just how much time high
      • I work a lot with embedded hard real time system, I have worked with full system simulation as well. Assembly is indeed very useful, especially when you try to figure out why the system is crashing only to in the end uncover code generation bugs in the customised version of gcc that was used to compile the embedded software.

        In any field you tend to learn the basics first and then move in to more abstract levels. Any programmer should grasp the physics of a transistor, how a CMOS circuit works, what gates an
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by 0kComputer (872064)
      As a first programming language, if you are serious about programming, learn C or some Assembler, this will make you understand how a computer actually works and think before you write sucky code.

      Sucky in what way? Good code now days has more to do with structure and maintainability as opposed to squeezing every possisble extra CPU out of a procedure. Instead of wasting time learning C/assembler, which you probably wouldn't get any use out of, I would go with an OO language such as Java or .net. Stick
      • Instead of wasting time learning C/assembler, which you probably wouldn't get any use out of, I would go with an OO language such as Java or .net.
        .net is not a language, but a platform, and if you are going to learn an OO language, why not learn Ruby?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          You make a good case that programmers eventually need to learn low-level concepts of how their platform works in order to troubleshoot obscure bugs and optimize performance.

          I'm still not sure why that means you should learn C or Assembler first.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by arevos (659374)

      As a first programming language, if you are serious about programming, learn C or some Assembler, this will make you understand how a computer actually works and think before you write sucky code.

      I disagree. It's not necessary to know C or Assembler to program, or even program well (program efficiently, perhaps). It'll teach you about the low level workings of a computer, sure, but not knowing how computers work at a low level is not, I don't think, the reason for 90% or even 95% of all the "sucky code" you'll find.

      As a side note, it is interesting that at the school at which I took my MSc, they used Haskell as a first starting language, basically to tell everyone that "you don't know shit about programming" and bring the sufferers of the perfect programmer syndrome down to the ground. A very good thing indeed.

      Ouch! Trial by fire! :)

  • I created this site [programmingbooks.org] about 6 months ago for programmers to rank their favorite programming books. The concept is simple, you rank your top 5 favorite books for a particular subject like "Ruby" or "Software Engineering". Specifically here are the top ranked Ruby Books [programmingbooks.org]. And here's the list of Top books every programmer should read [programmingbooks.org]. Of course, this only really works well if more people rank books, so if you've read this book, rank it(and any other ones you've read).
    • by shagymoe (261297) on Monday April 23 2007, @01:39PM (#18843445)
      I started with Perl...I'll probably never recover from that.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by mhall119 (1035984)
        Me too, but strangely I think it helped more than it hurt. By the time I was fluent in Perl, every other language seemed easy to grasp. It also taught me proper object-oriented programming by punishing me mercilessly for having a poor design. I guess it's kind of like the school of hard knocks for programmers.

        Positive reinforcement is for spoiled Ruby programmers.
      • by b0r1s (170449)
        I started with Java, havent used it since :)

        Of course, as beginner languages go, Java was great - fantastic for teaching OO fundamentals.
      • by solevita (967690) on Monday April 23 2007, @01:46PM (#18843543)

        Uh, right. Go ahead and mod me down. Apparently "I disagree with you" is now used for -1 point "Troll." The bottom line is, no newb to programming is going to pick this is their first.
        You didn't really argue your point, apart from saying "puh-leaze", so it's hard to describe your post as anything other than trolling. Maybe flamebait, I guess.

        I'm seriously considering starting programming with Ruby and plan to look on Amazon later this evening for this book. Do you have any eloquent reason why I shouldn't?
        • by EsbenMoseHansen (731150) on Monday April 23 2007, @01:55PM (#18843679) Homepage

          I know (as in, have written a substantial amount in) perl, java, ruby, C++, C, and (god forbid) PL/I. I am acquianted with quite a number more (like Haskel, Lisp) And have no fear, ruby is a fine language to start with. Especially the irb shell is very nice for getting your bearings, and the functional support will be good for you if you ever turn to the hardcore languages, like Haskell, C++ and that ilk. On the other hand, if you prefer the more limited languages, like Java, you will still have a good idea about most concepts you'll find. The only thing you will not learn that are common is static overloading and type checking, which is easy enough to pick up.

          Good luck. Learning to code and coding is very rewarding :)

          • the functional support will be good for you if you ever turn to the hardcore languages, like Haskell, C++ and that ilk.

            I think that's the first time I've seen Haskell and C++ lunked in an "ilk" together. I don't think that most new programmers would find much use to the functional piece of Ruby, because you can just as easily write procedural or OO code. Functional programming, at least for me, is something that you have to get used to and that I would never have gravitated towards in a self-guided ex

        • by BrewerDude (716509) on Monday April 23 2007, @02:06PM (#18843849)
          In my opinion, Ruby would make a great first language.

          Many computer science departments, including MIT, use Scheme as the language for their introductory computer science course. It's a wonderful language and helps the students learn a lot of key concepts that are important for formal computer science.

          Scheme, though, is a little hard to use for real-world work. Ruby, on the other hand, is a great real-world language that has many of the features that I miss from Scheme: closures, lambda expresions, etc.

          I haven't read this book, so I can't recommend it, but I can heartily recommend Ruby as a language that would be great to learn to program in. It'll let you focus on the key concepts rather than the tedium of implementing them in lower level languages.

          Go for it!

          • Does a beginner programmer really need all those features? Personally, I started out using QBasic. I think it's a good idea to start off simple. You can't expect to know everything as soon as you start. I think it's a good idea to go in small steps. Something like:
            1. Learn about variables and doing simple math
            2. Learn about conditional statements
            3. Learn about looping structures
            4. Learn about functions
            5. Learn about classes/stuctures
            6. Learn about more advanced concepts

            Very few languages let you do the first th

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by partenon (749418) *
              You can have 1, 2 and 3 in Ruby without knowing the others. And it would be a pleasant surprise to learn 4, 5, 6 and see that Ruby implemented 1, 2, 3 using them (OOP) :-)
            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              Very few languages let you do the first three without worrying about classes and/or functions. If you pick Java as your first programming language you'll have to learn about classes and functions, even to just write your first hello world program. You won't have to know very much, but it's easier to grasp these concepts one at a time. Therefore, I find a good progression of languages to be Basic, C, Java (Or C#,VB.Net,any other OO Language).

              I don't see why you think Ruby would make any of that difficult - p

            • Agreed. Ruby lets you learn in that progression, BTW. Everything is an object, but you don't need to know the details of that day one, at least for simple types like you're describing.

            • I think you're grabbing the wrong end of the question. From either an instructor or student's viewpoint the concern should be whether the language requires you to know all those features to do even simple programs. As you point out, Java requires a lot of overhead to write "Hello world". Ruby doesn't. The reason I think Ruby would be a good teaching language is that you can start small, but take it as far as you want with regard to OOP, functional programming, etc., all without having to switch language
        • I think Ruby would be a great first language. But you may want to also look at Chris Pine's Learn to Program as well as the book reviewed here: what I've heard about it is good, though I haven't looked at it myself.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by partenon (749418) *
            +1 on this. Why's Poignant Guide to Ruby [poignantguide.net] is the best tech book I've ever read. I just wish it was available when I was a newb. Why's book is not finished yet, but one can easily learn the basic programming concepts. CHUNKY BACON!! :-)
        • there are editor tools that will do that and more for you, and not just for LISP
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            there are editor tools that will do that and more for you, and not just for LISP

            Shh, we need these Lisp jokes every once in a while to keep the Java people in Java, and the Ruby people in Ruby.

            And yes, it's "Lisp" these days not "LISP". Go lurk at comp.lang.lisp if you don't believe me.
        • by lewp (95638)
          That's why God invented editors with brace matching. Stop using ed just because it's the standard.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by plams (744927)

      Define "high usage website". RoR-powered sites like 43 Things [43things.com] and ODEO [odeo.com] don't seem like backyard hobby projects to me.

      • by arevos (659374)

        Python because white space does not affect logical flow in Ruby
        Yes, you can write unindented code in Ruby, but why is this an advantage?

        If you're going to discuss advantages of Ruby over Python, anonymous blocks and Ruby's class system would be better choices.
          • by arevos (659374)

            The advantage is that it doesn't have Python's tab problem.

            Sure, that's a problem, but not exactly a big one. You can solve it with a global search and replace if it ever crops up, whilst some of Ruby's problems are more difficult to get around. And the problem only crops up if you're copy-pasting code from a third party who shares different coding conventions to you.

            Well, yeah, those are advantages, too. Its hardly as if one advantage negates the others.

            Any problem that can be solved in five seconds by a decent editor is not much of a problem. Especially when it's compared against Ruby's performance, or should I say lack of it :)

            • by dtolton (162216) *
              Once you are an experienced Python programmer it isn't a problem, but it can be a pain dealing with white space sensitivity while you are learning. The biggest problem is that the Python code will *look* right, but not execute.

              As an experienced programmer prior learning Python it only caused me mild heartache. I don't know how easy or hard it would be for a total newcomer to programming. If they are some of the people that were in my early CS classes, I'd say they'll never get past it without help.

              What p
    • by crayz (1056)
      Coming from a background of PHP and some C++, I could never "get" OO-programming - it just seemed over-complicated and pointless. With Ruby it started clicking almost instantly. The way that *everything* in Ruby is an object really forces the paradigm on you, and the ease of creating and extending objects really greases the way into using objects and thinking about your program in object-oriented terms