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RIAA Uses Local Cops In Oregon Raid
Posted by
kdawson
on Mon Jun 11, 2007 07:32 PM
from the farming-out-the-dirty-work dept.
from the farming-out-the-dirty-work dept.
newtley writes "Fake cops employed by the RIAA started acting like real police officers quite a while ago — one of the earliest examples unfolded in Los Angeles in 2004. From a distance, the bust, 'looked like classic LAPD, DEA or FBI work, right down to the black "raid" vests the unit members wore,' said the LA Weekly. That their yellow stenciled lettering read 'RIAA' instead of something from an official law-enforcement agency, 'was lost on 55-year-old parking-lot attendant Ceasar Borrayo.' But it's also SOP for the RIAA to wield genuine officers paid for entirely from citizen taxes as copyright cops. Police were used in an RIAA-inspired raid at two flea markets in Beaverton, Oregon. 'Sgt. Paul Wandell, Beaverton police spokesman, said officers seized more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000,' says The Oregonian. But this is merely the tiny tip of an iceberg of absolutely staggering dimensions, an example of the extent coming in a GrayZone report slugged RIAA Anti-Piracy Seizure Information."
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Variety Says Class Action May Stop RIAA Suits 133 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Variety reports that Andersen v. Atlantic, the class action which has been brought against the RIAA in Oregon may 'ultimately force the organization to drop or dramatically change the way it uses its principal weapon in the fight against online piracy"'. The RIAA responded to Variety saying that 'We are confident that (Andersen's) claims have no merit....We look forward to presenting our arguments in the next few weeks to the court about why this case should be dismissed. In all our cases, we seek to follow the facts and be fair and reasonable in resolving pending claims.' p2pnet opines that Hollywood's interest in the suit bodes ill for the RIAA."
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Help us serve you better (Score:5, Informative)
10 arrested in piracy raid at swap meets
CDs and DVDs - Police seize more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000
Sunday, June 10, 2007
HOLLY DANKS
The Oregonian
HILLSBORO -- Police closed down two popular swap meets Saturday and arrested 10 people on accusations of selling counterfeit CDs and DVDs in what one recording industry official called Oregon's biggest piracy raid.
Sgt. Paul Wandell, Beaverton police spokesman, said officers seized more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000. Most of the items were fake music CDs and movie DVDs, along with knockoff designer purses, sunglasses and clothing, and counterfeit brand-name toys, Wandell said.
Marcus Cohen, anti-piracy counsel for the Recording Industry Association of America, called the number of items seized at the M&M Swap Meet and Millennium Flea Market "overwhelming."
Besides being "the largest piracy raid in Oregon to date," Cohen said, Saturday's crackdown also was one of the largest operations in the country.
Wandell said Beaverton police got a tip about counterfeit items being sold at a Beaverton market in December, and the investigation led them to the Hillsboro flea markets.
Cohen was amazed by the quality of some of the bogus CDs and packaging, saying a good percentage of the Hillsboro discs were being counterfeited by a million-dollar replication machine like the music industry uses.
About 20 recording and movie industry investigators came from California to help police identify counterfeit items.
"We were surprised about the size and sophistication," Cohen said, standing in a steady drizzle Saturday afternoon at the chain-link fence that surrounds M&M. "It's something we are going to be paying very close attention to, finding who has a replication machine that shouldn't."
The names of those arrested and the charges were not immediately available. The owners of the swap meets were not arrested, but Lt. Michael Rouches, Hillsboro police spokesman, said he would ask city officials to look into revoking the owners' business license if they knew what was going on.
The flea markets are held every weekend.
Hayde Miranda, one of the M&M owners, said she didn't know any of the vendors were selling anything illegally. "It's unfortunate that some of our vendors, who are independent business owners, were selling things that were fake. We rent to them, but we have nothing to do with what they sell."
Miranda said M&M would be open today.
When dozens of police officers arrived about 12:30 p.m. Saturday to serve a search warrant at M&M, there were about 200 customers wandering booths that sell food, clothing, jewelry, trinkets, car parts, music and movies. While police blocked the entrance, a steady stream of drivers and pedestrians approached the gate at 346 S.W. Walnut St., hoping to get in and wondering what was happening.
"There were some vendors who ran and left their money behind, and some grabbed their money and booked," Wandell said. "But there were no problems, and it was very orderly."
Customers and vendors leaving throughout the afternoon as police packed up seized merchandise said they were not bothered by the raid. "The police were just doing their jobs," said a car parts vendor who didn't want to give his name. The vendors who were arrested "knew what they were doing was illegal," he said.
Wandell said customers who purchased counterfeit items would not be targeted because it would be hard to prove they knew the merchandise was fake. The CDs seized Saturday were selling for about $4.50 each and the DVDs for between $4 and $12, he said.
Fake CDs and DVDs usually have poorly printed labels, loose shrink-wrap or a different kind of covering, Wandell said. Some of the movies seized Saturday included "Shrek the Third" and "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End," which are still in theaters and haven't been released on DVD yet.
Cohen sai
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:5, Insightful)
Copyright infringement can also involve fair use, depending on who you ask, LOL.
Just my two cents worth.
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:5, Insightful)
In my book, using violence or threat of violence to take control over a ship you do not own, is piracy. Selling counterfeit CDs? Not piracy. Piracy involves vessels moving on the surface of a large body of water, and weapons. Selling counterfeit CDs can be piracy if you stole them from a ship.
Yeah, just like piracy can be legal, if you have a letter of marque.
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:4, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_
Hmm, now that's an interesting idea given that most of the terrorists are essentially pirates.
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:4, Insightful)
The argument I most commonly see in the media etc. to outlaw honest knockoffs is this: "counterfeit medicine can kill you and so it is obvious that we must outlaw knockoff sneakers". I don't know why people are buying this but I suppose I can always blame the schools . . .
Parent
Hardly Insightful! Nice Try Clever Lad (Score:5, Insightful)
The outrage could be inspired by a couple of reasons:
1. the privatization of law enforcement. There is an entire private structure dedicated to law enforcement in the U.S. (private prisons, arbitration, lawyers) This is a case where the line between private and public has blurred.
2. Outrageous excess. A couple of mega-corporations make enough money to hire their own law enforcement. I haven't even discussed their history of anti-trust, suspiciously monopolistic control of the distribution of entertainment, and a variety of other criminal acts already prosecuted.
3. Right of First Sale? Right of non-infringing use? These are very important legal concepts that the media conglomerates want to sweep away. They discourage these uses by prosecuting anyone from a Grandmother to some idiots selling counterfeits.
It's really very easy when you cast every issue in such black-and-white terms. You know exactly who the bad guy is. That must be comforting but it's misguided faith in an organization that history shows harm everyone.
Parent
Re:Hardly Insightful! Nice Try Clever Lad (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess power really does lie with who has the money. Too bad corporations are allowed to have money and power even though they are immortal (unlike crazy rich old man who abuses his position).
Parent
Re:What this really is (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice trolling. I'll bite anyway.
First off, Nobody has a god-given right to profit. This is as valid for the RIAA and for artists, as it is for people selling "counterfeited" CDs. Copyright allows some people to profit from their creations, at the expense of having other people not being able to copy intellectual property freely. This is a law created by humans. It is not the end of the universe if copyright-law is changed or even abolished.
Proponents of copyright argue that giving a monetary incentive to artists is good, because we will have more talented artists that choose to spend their time creating intellectual property. While it's possible to argue about how large this effect is, it's very hard to deny it. So far so good. Detractors of copyright say that people should have the right to do whatever they want with information. Just because someone has taken the time to create it, doesn't mean they should be allowed to limit my freedom to use or copy it as I want. This is also very tough to argue against. It seems that the only way copyright makes sense, is to somehow find a balance between these issues. Artists should get some form of pay, people should have some form of freedom. There is very little black and white about the idea of copyright. While laws must necessarily be clear, the ideas behind it, are in effect quite grey.
Copyright is actually a very old idea. It existed as far back as in the Roman empire. Back in those days, it was mostly used in books. Just like today, books were written by authors. But unlike today, making a copy of a book, could involve one or more highly educated slaves, slaving for a year or more. Needless to say, books were quite expensive. In such a system, arguing that the author should receive a fair share whenever a new copy was produced, is not particulary hard.
Today (where I live), an album of music costs (in retail) about 2 average-salary work-hours. The cost (for a consumer) of making ONE exact replica of it, is less than a tenth of that. The cost of making mp3s out of it, would then be about 1-2 minutes. The cost of copying these mp3s to a buddy, would be about 1-2 seconds. Despite these almost shocking numbers (at least in a historical perspective), copyright legislation has recently become more in favour of copyright-holders. Essentially, the music industry, or more generally, the content industry, has partnered with the law-makers, to create a system that is completely unfair for the average consumer.
Actually, since today it is cheaper to produce a copy of some intellectual property, than it is to enjoy it (I can copy a CD much faster than I can listen to it), artificially restricting copying of content seems completely backwards. Why should the public accept such completely silly laws? Even if we can agree in principle, that it would be nice if artists got paid, that doesn't mean we must agree that copyright is the way to do it. Actually, it doesn't even mean that artists must get paid, it just means we would prefer a system that does so. But even so, a system that puts what looks like completely arbitrary restrictions on copying of content (that would otherwise be essentially free), is not something that can survive for long into the future. Copyright is dead!
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Their math doesn't add up.
and
B. Are they saying that the counterfeit stuff is "worth" that much? I figure they'd see it as quite worthless.
Parent
Re:Help us serve you better (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Wow..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it too optimistic to hope they'll get busted for it someday?
Except (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Except (Score:5, Informative)
This story is actually about them using REAL local cops (the kind who should be busting drug dealers and burglars) to do their dirty work, not rentacops.
In this case they can use real cops because copyright infringement for commercial gain (selling copies at a flea market for a profit) is criminal, not civil. I don't mind them going after the people who do this and make a profit from it - if you're paying for the junk you may as well just pay the original artists for it rather than some freeloader at a flea market who wants to make a quick buck. I get shitty when the [MAF]IAA goes after joe user for downloading a few songs from this new fangled interdoodle thing.
The only reason they use rent-a-cop for their busting joe home user is because the real police won't touch it; there has been no crime if joe user downloads a song or a movie. In fact, the RIAA should just be filing civil suit in the small claims court, not busting into their house and whooping ass. I'd like to see some of the RIAA rent-a-cops and tossers get their asses shot up one day for busting into some Ilinois Nazi's place.
If it's not real cops and they don't have real warrants wouldn't shooting up their ass come under reasonable force for self-defence?
Parent
Re:Except (Score:4, Insightful)
It probably depends upon the situation, where the raid takes place (which state), when the raid takes place (middle of the night as opposed to broad daylight), whether the raid was announced (even if only five minutes prior to arriving), and finally whether or not there are *real* law enforcement officers accompanying the rent-a-cops. If it was just the rent-a-cops and they arrived unannounced during the night and without law enforcement vehicles in a rural part of Tennessee, for example, then they would probably be picking buckshot out of their asses while they waited real police officers to show up. Some of the states in the American south east and mid west have shoot first and ask questions later laws for trespassers in the middle of the night dating back to the days of horse thieves and cattle rustlers. I would venture to guess that most rent-a-cops would probably retreat if meet with armed resistance (they are not going to risk getting shot for a couple of bucks of overtime pay at their rent-a-cop night job, especially since it may not be covered by their regular health insurance).
Parent
Re:Except (Score:4, Interesting)
when someone is kicking in your fucking door, you don't stop to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Mod parent up :) I know here there was a case where a police officer was shot doing just that and the shooter got off because he assumed that it was someone coming in to do him harm. Admittedly he probably still had to face the music for whatever they were kicking his door in for.
It is my experience (been next to a place that was raided one time) that the police generally don't just kick in the front door - they knock and ask to come in first. If you refuse then they use force. If it's the RIAA and you refuse and then they kick in your door then they are trespassing if you refuse them entry; the only people who can get a warrant to enter your property without your permission are the REAL law enforcement officers. A court cannot legally allow somebody access to your property in cases like the RIAA is trying to pull.
*sits back and waits for them to get their asses shot up*
*still waiting*
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
rj
I hope that... (Score:5, Insightful)
Put differently.. if speeders, drunk drivers, people running red lights, etc. etc. would just quit doing that, maybe cops wouldn't have to worry about them and put more manhours into those other cases.
The above not related to the MPAA/RIAA bit which this story is really about, so.. on-topic: good on them. It's a crime to sell counterfeit goods. Wake me when law goes into a direction where they can use a cop squad to bust somebody for downloading songs/movies only, and I'll actively oppose it. Those who want to make money off their downloads.. tough shitski if you get caught.
Parent
Re:Wow..... (Score:5, Insightful)
I despise the RIAA as much as the next... But this is one of the few things I have *no* problem with. File sharing is one thing. Selling counterfeit copies? That's a far cry from not being able to afford the media, or wanting to casually fuck over the assholes at the RIAA.
Unlike file sharing, counterfeit sales logically *do* result in lost sales (arguable, but far less so than with file sharing, given the people are shelling out).
Parent
Re:Wow..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds kinda like my badly abused country right about now...
Parent
Re:Wow..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even on duty, a cop still retains his rights as a citizen. There are obviously some things a cop would get fired for saying while on duty, but as a citizen in general, he can't be put in jail for free speech. (Some people think "free speech" means their stupid posts shouldn't get modded down, but the idea is really that you can't go to jail for saying anything, no matter how abominably stupid it is, unless it reveals, indicates, or results in a prosecutable crime.
When speaking authoritatively, a cop has to establish that he is a state actor who speaks under color of law. That means, wearing a badge, and yelling things like ("Stop! Police!") at people who are running away. Once it has been made clear that he is a state actor, he can arrest you for not following his lawful instructions- which themselves have the force of law. (Disobeying an unlawful instruction is legal; the cop can't demand a BJ for example, or demand that you incriminate yourself.) You can run away from an undercover cop, since there is no badge, but once he yells "police" there goes that excuse. If the arrest happens, they are forced by law to tell you it is legal to remain silent. THEN the mind tricks begin: "You're only going to help yourself, you know, by confessing to me and incriminating yourself in other crimes as well." At this point an arrested wizard who is clever can respond by uttering his magic anti-cop spell: "I refuse to say anything without counsel present." Cops hate such magic and try to discourage its use by pretending to be therapists, not cops, standing by the side of the road and who just want you to get it all out. "There, doesn't it make you feel better to confess?" "Yeah!" Many of these guys are thieves, not wizards. (You'd think they never got arrested or had therapy before. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to jail- just watch COPS for a few hours. My wife used to be a criminal defense attorney. She's really good at spotting illegal searches or arrests. There's at least one per show, sometimes more. She'll point at the screen- "Did you see that? Did you just see what he did? That was an ILLEGAL search with no probable cause so the arrest was also illegal! Meanwhile narrator John Walsh is finishing up his moralizing bit: "There won't be much pot where THIS stoner is going, ha ha ha.")
Now say a cop works weekends busting heads for record companies. The badge isn't on him. Basically rent-a-cops are ordinary private citizens, working as security guards. They do not speak under color of law. An RIAA cop cannot arrest you. If one chases you, it behooves you to grab your warez and crackz and tunez and run as fast as you can. He will also not read you your Miranda rights, so remember, shut up, shut up, shut up. If you must say something, stick to obscenities, as to avoid revealing incriminating information. If he pulls out a cop badge and shows it to you, then he's a state actor. This would likely involve negative repurcussions for any cop who tried it while moonlighting for a security company.
Soldiers can speak and protest as citizens. Not as soldiers. But soldiers are still citizens. If a soldier is wearing his insignia, it is understood that he speaks as a soldier so his statements are expected to reflect official military policy. Without the military insignia he is speaking as a citizen. He cannot carry out military orders. If he shows up to an anti-war demonstration with a big "Semper Fi" T-shirt and shorts, with no insignia, he is obviously there as a citizen against the war who happens to be in the military. This deserves no punishment.
The Marines are currently after a guy who showed up at an antiwar demonstration with his military fatigues. He wore no insi
Parent
I'm waiting . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
The enforcement resulted in one arrest and the seizure of 13,000 counterfeit / pirated CD-Rs and 6,505 counterfeit movie DVDs. An additional search on 8th Avenue resulted in five additional arrests and the seizure of 33,600 counterfeit CD-Rs and 19,104 counterfeit movie DVDs.
Yup, it's still Fair Use. I mean everybody's been paid already right? Why should I have to spend more then I want to get something. I should only have to pay what I want to pay right? It doesn't matter how much they spent to make it right? Since they're an evil movie studio.
Re:I'm waiting . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
People who copy CDs for their own use, dont sell them for profit.
While what they did was scarry, its pretty well justified. They were indeed selling counterfit CDs and DVDs for sale. NOT personal use.
Parent
As it should be (Score:5, Insightful)
It's criminals like this who provide justifications for DRM and other annoyance. Everyone who objects to DRM and copy protection should be applauding the cops for investigating the swap meets, and the RIAA for merely informing the local police of the copyright violators, rather than engaging in their own strong-arm tactics.
That being said, it's a bit disconcerting to see them concerned with "who owns reproduction equipment like this". I really don't think that should be a concern of anyone... owning equipment shouldn't be a crime, even if it is professional-quality duplicators.
Re:As it should be (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:As it should be (Score:5, Interesting)
I completely agree. I was reading through this thinking to myself that this wasn't really an issue, the police doing their job, but then that comment just boggled my mind. Since when did it become illegal to own replication equipment? What if you want to use it to replicate 4 CDs so you can put them in 4 different CD players and not have to carry the CD around with you? Of course since this is supposed to be "million dollar" replication machines (whose parts probably cost a couple grand to buy and put together knowing "million dollar" machinery...) there are probably few legal uses for them unless you're some famous celebrity who the RIAA wouldn't get within a mile of arresting. I'm just worried about the possible precedent if they start going after people for owning these things and the government upholds it which doesn't seem that unlikely...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If my PC was stolen, and I saw it at a flea market, I'd -expect- the police to do something about it. Laws are laws and those who break them should have to face the consequences.
Am I perfect? No.
But publicly flaunting your lawlessness? They, and the people who buy from them, should be ashamed.
Good For Them (Score:3, Funny)
Unless people here actually condone piracy, which would be unthinkable for such a law and order crowd.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If these people are breaking the law, take them to court or call the police who will then act in an official capacity. Do not impersonate policeman acting in an official capacity, when the people are clearly not (hence the RIAA logos).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good For Them (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright infringement can be - and is being - prosecuted as a felony under U.S. federal law. Cybercrime.gov [usdoj.gov]
Parent
Am I missing something? (Score:5, Insightful)
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! (Score:3, Informative)
You are so wrong, it's unbelievable. How does painfully wrong information get modded up like this?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Civil? (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as someone who thinks the DMCA is insane, despises the way the RIAA treats its artists and then calls itself the defender of musicians everywhere, thinks that copyright needs reasonable term limits, has the current AACS key in his MSN Messenger tag-line, and checks Beckerman's blog regularly in the hope of good news, I support this action.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
it used to be that only pirating for profit (which i consider completely unethical, as opposed to doing giving it away for free, which i'm kinda on the fence about) was illegal, then the feds tried to prosecute some guy giving the stuff away (at work, and got slapped down by the counts, as it wasn't illegal if he wasn't selling it. congress then made the NET act to make that illegal.
A little math.... (Score:4, Insightful)
In other words, $15 per item for knock off and counterfeit items, including CDs and DVDs with allegedly unauthorized copyrighted material... Bull. I say alleged because I'm guessing that there were plenty of hip hop mixtapes that are technically illegal but in reality supported by the marketing arms of various record companies, stuff that would never sell for more than a few bucks each. Or maybe illegally imported (but not illegal to own or sell in, say, China) DVDs... Let's face it, the movie studios have certainly perverted justice and the law in order to sell their stuff for $20 a disc in Wal-Mart, so I'm not crying a river for them. It's certainly not a price anyone would pay in a real free market.
Then there's purses, handbags, stereo equipment, all knock-offs... The assumption behind that $758,000 figure is that people would pay so many thousands of dollars for a Gucci bag, whatever that is, and selling a $20 knock off will hurt sales on behalf of Gucci.
Let's revise the statement above.... 50,000 items of merchandise at a value of, say $150,000 in market value might be more realistic. I can't see anyone sticking their neck out to sell that many items at a flea market for less than that.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Illegal monopoly? Yes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait.... There are people how have replication machines that shouldn't? Is there a law against this? Only thy member of thouest recording industries shalt have duplicator machines?
Go jump in a lake, Mr. Cohen. Same goes to the rest of the RIAA.
Re:Illegal monopoly? Yes. (Score:4, Funny)
So I suppose you should be able to have a big ass replication machine in your clandestine warehouse with this equipment if you have a big ass sign on the front of the joint viewable from space that says "Yo, we're copying DVD's and shit in here!". BUT, you can't be copying just a few CD's in your basement on your PC, because that shit is ILLEGAL.
Parent
Seems like a pretty underhanded submission (Score:3, Insightful)
In the second case we have police raiding a flea market which was selling counterfeit goods, which I think most of you should realize is perfectly acceptable. If some jerk off is making money of copyright infringement, I hope they're taken to the ringer. At the -very- least their goods should be confiscated.
It's a felony charge... (Score:3, Informative)
The threshold for federal prosecution for copyright infringement is $2500. It is well within anyone's rights to ask the police to close down a million-dollar market in counterfeit goods. USDOJ Computer Crime & Intellectual Property Section [usdoj.gov]
Bravo RIAA. (Score:3, Insightful)
They should focus more on operations like this and less on filesharers.
This is good. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is where the RIAA should be focusing their time.
There's nothing wrong with this (Score:3, Insightful)
Aside from the negative effects this could have on legal retailers, distributors, and artists, consumers could easily be fooled into thinking these items were legitimate copies. Some people do actually watch those extra features.
All that being said, I still think the RIAA is despicable and their attack on online media distribution is patently absurd and abusive. They need to work with the consumers instead of against them and realize that their model is outdated and irrelevant in the modern world.
These guys are small potatoes. China is shipping! (Score:5, Interesting)
P.S. - Take my advice, don't feed the wheat-gluten from China to your pets.
Short measure, the stamp of authenticity (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, sir, and beware of one-pound cans of coffee that contain sixteen ounces instead of thirteen, sleazy operators that will sell you a four by four by eight foot "cord" of wood, and call the cops if your bag of a dozen bagels turns out to contain thirteen.
Short measure, your infallible sign of genuine U. S. music industry product.
Sounds right to me. (Score:3, Insightful)
That's an actual felony in the United States, not the civil matter that small-scale P2P usage is.
Of course the police would be involved. I'm only surprised it was the local cops, not the U.S. Marshall's office or some similar Agency.
Plaintiff participation in raids on defendants? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's almost like giving the ok to a rape victim's family to participate in the bust of the suspect and trusting that none of them would throttle the guy before the police got to him.