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US Prepares for Eventual Cyberwar

Posted by Zonk on Sun Jun 24, 2007 06:04 AM
from the batten-down-the-hatches dept.
The New York Times is reporting on preparations in the works by the US government to prep for a 'cyberwar'. Precautionary measures are being taken to guard against concerted attacks by politically-minded (or well-paid) hackers looking to cause havoc. Though they outline scenarios where mass damage is the desired outcome (such as remotely opening a dam's gates to flood cities), most expect such conflicts to be more subtle. Parts of the internet, for example, may be unreachable or unreliable for certain countries. Regardless, the article suggests we've already seen our first low-level cyberwar in Estonia: "The cyberattacks in Estonia were apparently sparked by tensions over the country's plan to remove Soviet-era war memorials. Estonian officials initially blamed Russia for the attacks, suggesting that its state-run computer networks blocked online access to banks and government offices. The Kremlin denied the accusations. And Estonian officials ultimately accepted the idea that perhaps this attack was the work of tech-savvy activists, or 'hactivists,' who have been mounting similar attacks against just about everyone for several years."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:07AM (#19626927)
    I mean who the FUCK would be stupid enough to have the controls for a Dam connected to the internet?
    • by vtcodger (957785) on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:44AM (#19627309)

      ***Isn't this blown out of proportion, again?***

      Probably not out of proportion. The military has separate secure communications, but civil society doesn't. And many of our key networks aren't exactly robust. We've had incidents in the past of phone networks going down because of bad software upgrades to switches. And of power distribution networks going down for no very good reason and taking many hours to get back up. And satellites going out.

      So what happens when a technically savvy bunch of folks with a point to make starts off by hijacking Microsoft Update to zombiate millions of PCs, uses other update services to brick all sorts of devices, then simultaneously goes after the DNS servers; North American power grid controls; and every satellite link they have previously found a vulnerability in? What if they can take down major parts of the cell phone network? Probably they can DOS the financial service network providers if they can't hack into them -- No functioning ATMs and likely no functioning banks and likely few functioning stores of any kind. And they reprogram a lot of the nation's traffic signals to turn all lights green permanently. They do the same for the railroads. And they turn off the natural gas distribution system -- in January. And they shut down the aquaduct pumping stations feeding Southern California. ... etc, etc, etc. And finally, they shut down as much of the phone system as they can get to.

      A serious attack by a technically savvy attacker with significant resources and a good plan can very likely do most of those things and a great many more.

      If an attacker can do even a quarter of that, it'd take any industrial country a week to get back up after a fashion, and months to really get things back under control. So, no, it's probably not blown out of proportion.

      ***I mean who the FUCK would be stupid enough to have the controls for a Dam connected to the internet?***

      What is the cheapest and most cost effective way to control a remote power facility? And who says cyber attacks are limited to the Internet? If your dam is 300 miles away, you're going to need remote access -- at least for monitoring and quite likely for command and control. Seems to me like most, maybe all, of the technologies to do that -- internet, phone network, satellite, radio links, etc--are open to interception and attack. Even if you can't break into the control link, you likely can deny service in one way or another.

      • by zmollusc (763634) on Sunday June 24 2007, @08:02AM (#19627381)
        If the attackers want to maximise chaos, they will leave the traffic signals functioning normally.
      • A serious attack by a technically savvy attacker with significant resources and a good plan can very likely do most of those things and a great many more.

        William Gibson called and he's asking for Wintermute back.

      • by mcrbids (148650) on Sunday June 24 2007, @11:30AM (#19628397) Journal
        So what happens when a technically savvy bunch of folks with a point to make starts off by hijacking Microsoft Update to zombiate millions of PCs,

        What makes you think they have to hijack MS Update? It seems to be a problem right now, today. [bbc.co.uk] Anybody who thinks this is something new is clueless. It's a problem right now, today.

        A few things that can help:

        1) Stop using systems that are inherently flaky. (EG: MS Windows) Move on to something that's proven to be resistant to viruses and the like. MacOSX, Linux, BSD, and other *nix variants are a good bet for the immediate future, but I'd wager that the best bet would be to revive DEC VMS! The security on that system is just simply awesome, and its reliability is second to none. Get somebody with chutzpah like Steve Jobs to make it work, and it would. Very well.

        2) Demand basic, reasonable security policies in force at ISPs. The federal govt should require that ISPs should use basic technologies to ensure that packets appear to come from the right network, malformed packets are rejected, etc. and it should also provide reasonable initial funding so that they can comply with this law without undue hardship.

        Another interesting thought - computers have gotten complex enough that the average person can no longer maintain them. So what if there was a way that the average person could outsource this administration to somebody else? There's quite a few ways this might work:

        A) The "pool service" model - some local techie shop periodically accesses your computer (either physically or remotely) and performs a routine maintenance, fixing security holes, ensuring updates are done, performing backups, etc.

        B) The "terminal" model - rather than store all your data/files on your local machine, your local machine becomes a dummy terminal, and you access your data and programs remotely. Something like the "terminal" that was common on mini and mainframes in the 1980s. Think Google office? This may be where Microsoft goes with their 'Windows Live' service, and where Linux goes routinely with X11.

        C) The "Updater" model - almost in place now, you pay a subscription fee to have software downloaded automagically that takes care of security issues. The main point here is that for this to work, it has to provide a strong assurance of quality, which this does not.

        Man, got windy on this post. Hope you enjoyed it!
      • by djmcmath (99313) on Sunday June 24 2007, @11:59AM (#19628559)
        OP is right, and he's optimistic about our defenses. Even the military practices "network security" at only a childish level. Most users have no clue how security works, and our military's network security training is horribly remiss.

        And of course, the OP only outlined a few attacks that can be conducted from the safety of an office somewhere remotely. We face an enemy who isn't at all afraid to blow stuff up, even if it means the explosives are personally delivered. Anyone take a look at the physical security on a dam recently? Storage sites for nuclear waste? Ferries, busses, trains?

        We are ripe for attack from a small team of well-funded and determined enemies, and we're not doing enough to prepare for it.
    • During that time, one of the nuclear reactors that shutdown was found to have numerous Windows based computers connected to the Internet. Apparently, the techs had put them in there and hooked up to make servicing easier. It happened then. It will happen again and again. Until companies decide to take back computing (laptops without USB or modem, ethernet that requires low-level authentication, etc., we will continue to see issues. In fact, if a company wanted to start up big against Dell, et. al. they coul
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Actually some very important things are reachable via the internet. Like millions of people's bank accounts, for instance. Heck, it's not the Internet, but highly classified satellites download data all the time through the open air. Relying on encryption is unavoidable.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:17AM (#19626973)
        Looks like you were right; FTA:

        "..through the industrial remote-control technologies known as Scada systems, for Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition. The technology allows remote monitoring and control of operations like manufacturing production lines and civil works projects like dams"

        Words fail me.
        • by garoo (203070) on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:50AM (#19627085)
          Not all that unusual. I was visiting a water treatment/chlorination plant in the UK a few years ago (for complex reasons related to archaeology rather than anything particularly on-topic, so it is likely that we got the Cliff Notes version). They pointed to the computer that controls the water chlorination and said 'we control this via this modem right here'. Presumably there are all sorts of security controls around actually accessing via said modem, given that we are talking about a PC controlling the quality of the drinking water supplied to maybe 20,000 people.

          This doesn't matter very much anyway. TFA seems to have confused 'you can connect to it remotely via some mechanism or another' and 'anyone connected to the internet can just ssh right in/DDOS it'. FUD.
            • Strangelove: I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy...heh, heh...(He rolls his wheelchair forward into the light) at the bottom of ah...some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in drilling space could easily be provided.
              President: How long would you have to stay down there?
              Strangelove: ...I would think that uh, possibly uh...one hundred y
  • by Khaed (544779) on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:09AM (#19626935)
    "Make cyberlove, not cyberwar!"
  • Obvious safeguard (Score:5, Insightful)

    by maharg (182366) on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:10AM (#19626945) Homepage Journal
    don't connect the dam floodgate controller to the internet ?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:47AM (#19627077)
      Welcome to the whitehouse.gov administration panel, please enter your 6 digit password below:
      _ _ _ _ _ _

      Access granted! Hello Mr. President,

      would you like to...
      [1] Raise taxes
      [2] Open floodgates
      [3] Administrate the US Army
      [4] Launch nuclear warheads
      [5] Play online poker
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Access granted! Hello Mr. President,
        would you like to...
        [1] Raise taxes
        [2] Open floodgates
        [3] Administrate the US Army
        [4] Launch nuclear warheads
        [5] Play online poker

        [6]Global Thermonuclear War
    • Back in the late '90s I was infected by my first virus. I had never connected to the internet, I had just used the library and school computers. Somehow, I still managed to get a virus on my floppy diskette.

      I don't think it is unlikely that there are people who hook their laptops up to their work network, and I suspect it is even more likely that people plug in a floppy/thumbdrive/cdrom from home. I don't doubt that it would be safer to stay disconnected from the Internet, but a handcrafted virus would be far more likely to avoid detection by most antivirus and probably accomplish just as much in a hacker war. It would have to be a targeted program, but that is really the point isn't it, that hackers could be targeting networks that are supposed to be secured. Of course, it probably doesn't help security that they probably assume their network is safe.

  • Now that would have made a good headline. It's directly from the article:

    microchip-controlled Tickle Me Elmos will be transformed into unstoppable killing machines

    (taken slightly out of context)
  • by suv4x4 (956391) on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:17AM (#19626969)
    As the government is getting ready for the upcoming cyberwar, the following ad was noticed in a local newspaper:

    We're looking for a young man named John Connor, to lead our efforts in the war against the machines. We offer $1000 to anyone who has any substancial information in discovering his location. If you can help, please dial 1-800-ILL-BE-BACK.

        - The Government (it's not Terminator this time, I swear)
    • The next day another ad was printed:

      This is The Government. We're warning you that Terminator seems to be posting newspaper ads looking for John Cohnor and presenting himself as The Government. Do NOT call him. The real Government would never post ads in a newspaper in a fashion like that.

      Hmm, wait a second. Bob, stop typing, let me call the general. Hello, General? I just realized, we can't type in a newspaper ad, that we'd never post in a newspaper ad, we'd look like damn morons. Uhuh. Uhuh.. Wait.. BOB I
        • Re:Newspaper ad (Score:5, Insightful)

          by suv4x4 (956391) on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:19AM (#19627189)
          How does it feel to reply to your own post?

          Makes me feel Slashdot had an edit post button, so I wouldn't have to ammend myself in an entire new post.
  • by segedunum (883035) on Sunday June 24 2007, @06:46AM (#19627073) Homepage
    Well, everyone needs a credible enemy to keep themselves in a job. I mean, what would all those government agencies do with their time? The whole thing is just playing peoples worst fears, and the scenarios they've got there are straight out of Die Hard......or that film Sandra Bullock was in, and of course the all have no basis in reality.

    Bring back the Cold War, that's what I say, and it looks as though they are. This whole terrorism thing just isn't working out ;-).
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      This whole terrorism thing just isn't working out
      Well even the dummies are starting to put 2 and 2 together now over the whole 'terrorist global domination' charade and 'Cyber terrorists' are a ready made replacement in terms of fear mongering. Another vague, unknown threat that could be anywhere and somehow capable of causing immense destruction and loss of life at any given moment.
    • Bring back the Cold War, that's what I say, and it looks as though they are. This whole terrorism thing just isn't working out ;-).

      Maybe it's not working out, but Cold War was even worse. It was so hopelessly outdated, that they tried rebranding it "Cool War", "Hot War" and what not, but it just wouldn't catch on.

      Cyberwar and war on terror is where it's at. And war on child abuser. Who doesn't agree? You child abusers, you.
  • In 2007, cyberwar was beginning.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What happen?
      Somebody set us up teh hax!
  • always a war (Score:5, Insightful)

    by had3z (1064548) on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:01AM (#19627121) Homepage
    Why is it that america is always preparing for a war? a war on 'terrer', a cyberwar, a war on drugs, a war on immigrants, a war on pirates, a war on guns. When is the last time america made peace?
    I guess big budgets need big reasons
    • This really isn't anything like those other "wars" though in that there will probably be nothing actively done in this case. It's a popular thing right now in the corporate world right now as well as the government - worst case scenario disaster planning. What you do is you call a meeting, and you pull in members from your various technical teams, and then you ask a roomful of developers and IT staff what their plan is in case - oh, I don't know, there's a global pandemic next week, or a terrorist blows u
    • by suv4x4 (956391) on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:41AM (#19627287)
      Why is it that america is always preparing for a war? a war on 'terrer', a cyberwar, a war on drugs, a war on immigrants, a war on pirates, a war on guns. When is the last time america made peace?

      Amen. Let's declare war on war!
    • Re:always a war (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GooberToo (74388) on Sunday June 24 2007, @10:27AM (#19628033)
      Why is it that america is always preparing for a war?

      Um...perhaps because it's the smart thing to do? Only an idiot wouldn't prepare.

      You see, any country that has two nickles to rub together makes preparations to keep their two nickles. The reason is simple. Someone with only one nickle or maybe someone with two nickles that would like to have four, may decide to come take your two nickles. So you have a choice. One, give your two nickles up tomorrow (it will happen), or be in a position where it will cost someone three nickles to take your two.

      Perhaps you've heard, "Hope for the best. Plan for the worst." Only an idiot running a country wouldn't do that.
      • >> a war on 'terrer'

        What about the war on grammar?


        How about war on grammar nazies, and nazies in general (I'm sure Steven Spielberg would even make a movie about it).

        And that's a typo, not a grammatical error.
  • by zmollusc (763634) on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:56AM (#19627361)
    Can we agree on a flag to wave so that, once the 3vi1 h4xx0rs have destroyed all the intarnets, we can signal to others in visual range 'willing to trade pr0n dvdroms via sneakernet'? Maybe any suitably encrusted piece of fabric?
  • Born to Lose (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Sunday June 24 2007, @08:00AM (#19627369) Homepage Journal
    Every US "Cybersecurity Czar" [wikipedia.org] has quit in disgust. The Homeland Security agency can't even find someone to run the office [cybertelecom.org], because it's a total joke.

    Meanwhile, the US has already been under siege by China in a full-blown cyberwar [google.com] for several years.

    It's cheap to attack the US tech infrastructure, and expensive to defend against it. That's what asymmetric warfare [wikipedia.org], like terrorism, is all about. So 6 years into Bush's Terror War, and the government is still preparing to get started, while our enemies just surge around us.
  • "Hactivist" is a perfectly cromulent word, right? No, not really. I really despise this weird need everyone has to create new words. He already have perfectly good words, like "hacker", "activist" and "loser kids who want to feel powerful." Why anyone felt the need to create another buzz word is beyond me. This one is going right on the top of my list [slashdot.org].
  • OK, there's defensive preparations and offensive preparations. I think it would be nice to know exactly how these guys are intending to fight (offence is the best form of defence?) such a war, before we all become collateral damage?
  • The summary says that Estonia wanted to "remove Soviet monuments", which is an excaggeration. The monument in question was moved to a less prominent place, which is kind of understandable since the Soviet era of Estonia isn't regarded much higher than, say the Nazi occupation of places like Denmark or The Netherlands ...

    The important thing to remember here is that the monument is still visible for those who wish to pay their respect to their ancestors. The monument is not, and never was, removed.
  • by allanc (25681) on Sunday June 24 2007, @08:35AM (#19627503) Homepage
    Okay, this is serious, and the US could be in serious danger. Here's my plan for action to make sure we can come through a potential cyber-war victorious:

    1. "Security through Conformity": Standardize on exactly one platform. Make sure everyone in government is using it. That way, if we discover a gaping security hole in that platform, we only have to patch one type of system. Homogeneity is the key.
    2. We need to put our trust in professionals. That one platform should definitely be Microsoft Windows. Sure, having people from all over the world looking for bugs might be quicker and more effective, but that also means that people from all over the world have the potential to find a security hole, but we have no clear target to blame for that security hole. And don't forget that backdoor that was almost slipped into Linux (though, fortunately, caught before it got into source control because of all of the people able to look at it)! We wouldn't have to worry about that with Microsoft Windows
    3. Don't leave computer decisions in the hands of long-haired computer geeks who spend all day working with technology. They tend to have decidedly leftist--if not communist!--leanings. All IT decisions for the US government should be made by the people best qualified to make them: Career bureaucrats.
  • ....virtual goods.

    They can use the virtual taxes to pay for the virtual war (cyberwar) defense.

    http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/ 23/2055244 [slashdot.org]
  • by gumpish (682245) on Sunday June 24 2007, @08:48AM (#19627575) Journal
    Can't they call it "Digital Warfare" or "Internet Warfare"?

    "Cyber" is so 1990's... anything that inserts it into the language more often is a nuisance. Can you imagine if it gradually became a synonym for "good"?

    Dude, that pizza was totally cyber!

    Ugh...
  • Just fix the darn protocols, dammit. It's been a year [washingtonpost.com] since Blue Security was taken down by PharmaMaster and NOBODY has done ANYTHING to prevent any subsequent DNS amplification attacks [securiteam.com] from happening.

    If ISPs at least blocked forged-ip packets from exiting them, then THAT would be a nice start.

  • by AB3A (192265) on Sunday June 24 2007, @11:05AM (#19628265) Homepage Journal
    I am a registered professional controls engineer. I design and manage a large SCADA system. I'm also a member of the SP-99 standards committee (the ISA standard for industrial control system security).

    Industrial Control System Security is the subject of many books (with many more on the way), security committees, and even pending regulation. I could spend a long time trying to explain why things are the way they are. Here's an overview of the issue:

    1) SCADA systems started out in isolation. Most were never designed for internet access and many were designed without any thought to security because there is a more important concern: Reliability and performance.

    2) Office folks got wind of what information could be had from SCADA systems and the next thing that happened were a mass of people clamoring for the data. However, very few gave much thought to how that data could be extracted securely without affecting the reliability or performance of the system. As a result, there are many security compromises.

    3) It's not easy to retrofit security in to an existing SCADA system. It would be like putting seat belts and air-bags on a Ford Model T. Such measures will help, but what is really needed is a re-engineering of the whole system.

    4) Many of the protocols we use every day live in carefully validated embedded systems. You can't just "update" them without digging in to a morass of other embedded systems issues, in addition to the protocol itself, you have issues of performance and expected behavior. For this reason, updates of embedded firmware are rare.

    5) SCADA systems live for a long time. Typical lifetimes are at least 10 years for the field devices and five years for the control room software and hardware. These configurations are carefully validated (a very tedious and expensive process), so companies are loath to upgrade them unless there is a very good reason to do so.

    I can go on, but that's should give you a taste of what the situation is.

    Now for the reality of interational red-teams. Yes, they exist. The US has them too. I don't design for a red team. First, that would require very frequent software upgrades, something which I've already explained is not feasible for most SCADA system operators. Second, we opt for defense in depth. We try to segment our systems so that they fail in to smaller peices which are semi-autonomous in themselves. They won't be as efficient, but they will continue to work. And finally, in case you hadn't noticed, we design our physical security to eliminate the casual vandal, not the determined para-military group. The cost of going fully secure is so high that nobody would be willing to pay for it.

    At the utility where I work, we keep our SCADA system carefully shielded behind firewalls. Yet many other SCADA system managers do not understand the security issues because they're not IT savvy. Conversely, most IT staffers in utilities and manufacturing companies do not understand what a SCADA really is and does. This is not just another app. The notion of a real time or even a near real time system is alien to most. Furthermore, there is no such thing as "rebooting" in this business. In most IT applications, restarting the application or rebooting the machine is routine. Not so in SCADA. If we restart, we often lose track of many critical on-going processses. You see in most IT applications, they are the whole system. With SCADA, there is a physical world of things going on with or without them. If you're not up and running all the time, you're probably going to miss something critical.

    Finally, opening dams by remote control isn't likely. We have dams where I work too. Even if we did open them by remote control (we open ours manually), the systems that we use are as far as possible from the internet, and even our office intranet. Yes, we can wash out parts of a town downstream if we're not careful. The operators of such dams are licensed and they must be very careful about how the
  • by VoidEngineer (633446) on Sunday June 24 2007, @11:22AM (#19628369)
    Seems to me like we're heading towards some distinctly neuromantic and ghost-in-the-shellish conflict scenarios. Makes sense, considering all the recent technology advancements. Japan is busy at work making their first Mech prototypes, MIT is busy making invisibility cloaks, Van-Eck phreaking devices have been around for ages, and the Russia mafia seems to be busy writing custom viruses. The thing to remember is that a 'cyberwar' would *not* simply be conducted by script-kiddie hackers in their moms basements. Sure, you might have to deal with botnet DDOS attacks, but that's probably the least worrisome scenario. To use the Dam floodgate scenario, consider a sneakernet type attack, where a special-ops actually *applies for a job* at said energy company which runs said Dam floodgates, and moles their way past the firewalls, so they can install a custom one-time virus. Afterwords, they get a nice million dollar bounty from the sponsoring enemy state. That's the espionage scenario. There are others. Toss in some helicopters, invisibility cloaks, van-eck phreaking devices, and emp pulse generators, and you've got yourself an arguably new class of special-ops. You might say, 'yeah, US enemies aren't ever going to get helicopters and those kind of forces onto US soil, so the US only needs to concern itself with remote attacks.' Granted, the US still has a big advantage of being relatively isolated here in North America, but I'm not so convinced. We do have embassies, consulates, and business partnerns all over the world, and most all of them have VPN connections outside the US. Networks make distances less relevant, so we could simply be attacked at one of our embassies or consulates. But I digress. The idea that I'm trying to communicate here, is that a 'cyberwar' isn't necessarily all digital, just as a computer isn't all digital (keyboards and monitors are analog). As such, there will be a sneakernet and analog element to any such 'cyberwars', which will probably involve special-ops using the latest technology to tap into networks, nab passwords, and cover their tracks, *in conjunction* with the crackers doing the cracking. All nicely laid out in neuromancer and ghost-in-the-shell. The specifics differ, but the general concept is spot on in both works. At least in my opinion.
  • Hacking the Media (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Divebus (860563) on Sunday June 24 2007, @12:38PM (#19628773)

    The Joker laughing out of every TV and Radio in Gotham city would be a powerful psychological win and a plausible goal for a determined enemy. What if part of a cyber war campaign was designed to replace Podcasts, Music streams, VOD Movie services, CNN Video or any internet delivered media with a message from our enemy? Could they commandeer Internet connected set-top boxes deployed by Cable providers and replace what we see and hear?

    I was approached by some people recently who wanted to know exactly how someone could pull that off. By "some people", I mean someone who works with an unnamed National Security Agency of sorts. I shrugged it off at first, then thought of the potential impact. Eek. Does anyone in the media business even anticipate or have a strategy for combating such an attack?

    • Mind yo businez (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ancientt (569920) <ancientt@yahoo.com> on Sunday June 24 2007, @07:50AM (#19627325) Homepage Journal

      That's right, because we all know that bullies only beat up other bullies. </sarcasm>>

      I love that people assume that the US is a target because of it's actions. I wonder if these are the same people that assume that Microsoft gets hacked because it is an 'evil' company. Let me say it plainly: The US is a target because the US has a lot of money and influence. Microsoft is a target because they have a large number of users. There may be thousands of other reasons, but that is the real reason there is such a disparity in attacks against the two. I am not saying that MS shouldn't be a moral business or that the US shouldn't improve it's interactions in the world, I'm just saying that doing either one will not make a significant difference in the number of attacks.

      Both have a need to do the same thing too, actually. They need to improve security and do it in such a way that it doesn't harm their base.

    • And what if other country business is to take all your resources?
    • ***Don't interfere in other countries' business and they won't have any reasons to attack you.***

      Tain't entirely true. Ask the Poles.

      Nonethelss, it'd be a very good start. Especially for people who have proved, on the whole, to be rather inept at meddling.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      People don't beat their kids for the better of the child, they beat their kids because they themselves are incapable of acting in a socially acceptable manor & beating the children allows the parent to vent the fustrations involved with being a failure in society as well as an incapable parent.

      Don't beat your kids, better yourself & lead by example.
      If the children don't follow your example, abandon them.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Folks,if you catch your kid engaging in "hactivism" or using words like "politically correct"
      Flamebait? Sure. But badly-constructed flamebait- the only people who use the expression "politically correct" are those attacking the concept.

      In fact, I'd go so far as to say that "political correctness" only ever really existed as a convenient strawman caricature, useful for smearing anything remotely smacking of "liberal" or left wing views.
      • Flamebait? Sure. But badly-constructed flamebait- the only people who use the expression "politically correct" are those attacking the concept.

        Very true.

        In fact, I'd go so far as to say that "political correctness" only ever really existed as a convenient strawman caricature, useful for smearing anything remotely smacking of "liberal" or left wing views.

        Heh, I don't know: I'd always considered myself reasonably to the left, but... I was surprised to run into a bunch of socially-acceptable racial bigotry during college, and the only way I can think to characterize it, is as having been "ok" because it was "politically correct." And this is the real point of my post.

        What am I talking about? People complaining, over and over, about "rich white kids;" they'd use sneering language like "bastion of white privilege," repeat racial slurs like W

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      The only way to prevent war is to prevent the existence of more than one opinion.
      So, a hive mind would end the wars.
      But would this be really better?