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Russia Claims Large Chunk of North Pole
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jun 29, 2007 04:03 PM
from the also-santa-claus dept.
from the also-santa-claus dept.
kungfoofairy writes "Russia has laid claim to over one million square kilometers of the Artic. This announcement comes on the return of a scientific expedition into the region which found that the Lomonosov Ridge connects to Russia. The area is supposed to have a reserve of 10 billion tons of natural gas and oil. 'A BBC map shows Russia's proposal; this set of maps from The New York Times illustrates the area at stake and different ways it might be divided ... The Russians have tried to advance their claim before, and were turned away by the United Nations in 2001. The new geological data is evidently meant to improve the odds for a second try. '"
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Santa (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Santa (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Did someone else managed to do this?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure there's been Polish Slashdotters here before you.
I claim the whole north pole (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I claim the whole north pole (Score:5, Interesting)
The whole thing would have made a great YouTube video.
Will nothing stop Tonga's unbridled military might? We must stop the Greater Tongan Co-Prosperity Sphere before it is too late!
Parent
Argument goes something like... (Score:5, Insightful)
We like method 1!
Countries that would get most by method two:
No, method 2 is better!
Repeat every 6 years until the whole thing melts and/or people realise that country borders are arbitrary and their first responsibility should be to the human race.
Doesn't matter (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
-matthew
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:5, Informative)
Your argument is like saying, "Well, there's a gigantic diamond buried under the fence between me and my neighbor. I'll just let them have it because diamonds are going to run out anyways."
From a more practical standpoint, Russia is grasping at straws. They went from superpower to "not that impressive except for all the nukes." Their GDP is, what, a bit over a trillion dollars per year compared to our 11 trillion? Yet, they still have the pride of a superpower. Just like how if America fell from the top of the world stage, we'd still see ourselves as deserving that status, they too tend to see this as just a setback. Natural resource exploitation seems a good way to bring in money to their economy that could help resurrect their backwards industrial base. It also has geopolitical significance; "take my side or I shut off the taps" makes a nice threat, even when not spoken.
Of course, the resource you're threatening over better *actually* be a big deal. Let's not forget Sudan's threat to devastate the world by stopping sales of acacia gum [go.com]. I love the terrifying wording [washingtonpost.com]:
What's more, the good and peaceful leaders of Sudan were prepared to retaliate massively: They would cut off shipments of the emulsifier gum arabic, thereby depriving the world of cola.
"I want you to know that the gum arabic which runs all the soft drinks all over the world, including the United States, mainly 80 percent is imported from my country," the ambassador said after raising a bottle of Coca-Cola.
A reporter asked if Sudan was threatening to "stop the export of gum arabic and bring down the Western world."
"I can stop that gum arabic and all of us will have lost this," Khartoum Karl warned anew, beckoning to the Coke bottle. "But I don't want to go that way."
As diplomatic threats go, that one gets high points for creativity: Try to stop the killings in Darfur, and we'll take away your Coca-Cola.
Parent
Re:Doesn't matter (Score:4, Insightful)
It worked, didn't it?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Or until someone starts sending out naval ships & building military bases.
It is cheaper to exploit the North Pole than to deal with dictators in Africa or the Middle East and one would have to be naive to think that Russia doesn't have military plans drawn up to prevent someone from staking a claim.
Re:Argument goes something like... (Score:5, Interesting)
What? This won't happen until the "human race" has a common enemy. We are tribal in nature, so humans will always fight at the highest level of categorization, and those categories will only unite when they have a common thing to fight against. It's possible that natural disaster could become a common enemy, but it's more likely that we will remain infighting until we find a sentient alien race (or said alien race finds us).
So, expect to see this fight over an ice cap go on for awhile. It won't matter in the long run, once we have to start worrying about other planets.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What makes you think we'd stop fighting with each other if we had a common enemy. There are plenty of human societies right now who have a common enemy, yet still kill amongst themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
That way their sea border will move farther from North Pole.
Problem solved!
Hyperbole and exaggerations (Score:3, Insightful)
Ironically, the map most used to claim that "OMG! Russia wants it all!" is the one from the BBC (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42433000/gi f/_42433630_arctic_ice_map416_3.gif [bbc.co.uk]) which shows their supposedly outrageous claim based on the sea-floor ridge argument. If one compares that to the more sedate,
Re:Hyperbole and exaggerations (Score:4, Informative)
The BBC map is most used as it shows what the Russians want to claim - the NYT map shows the situation as it currently exists. (Note that the grey hued area marked "Russian claimed territory" on the BBC map is absent from the NYT map - and lies considerably beyond the borders marked on both maps.) The two maps differ considerably.
Parent
First half of that sentence... (Score:4, Informative)
The reason there's so much recent fighting over it is that the Arctic Ocean becomes more valuable after the "whole thing melts" and not less valuable. It will be easier to access the oil, and there are shipping rights involved.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Couldn't help but notice... (Score:3, Interesting)
Roughly, "zavod Santi."
Glad to help.
Sounds like the start.... (Score:3, Funny)
Thanks, I'll be here all night. Tip your waitress and try the Veal.
Re: (Score:2)
If any of you sees an APC carrying Engineers, OPEN FIRE IMMEDIATELY!
Or is it Canada's? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yesterday, however, some scientists doubted whether Russia's latest Arctic grab stood up to scrutiny.
To extend a zone, a state has to prove that the structure of the continental shelf is similar to the geological structure within its territory. Under the current UN convention on the laws of the sea, no country's shelf extends to the North Pole. Instead, the International Seabed Authority administers the area around the pole as an international area.
"Frankly I think it's a little bit strange," Sergey Priamikov, the international co-operation director of Russia's Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute in St Petersburg, told the Guardian. "Canada could make exactly the same claim. The Canadians could say that the Lomonosov ridge is part of the Canadian shelf, which means Russia should in fact belong to Canada, together with the whole of Eurasia."
----
Pwned! All your base are belong to
Re:Or is it Canada's? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
They also drink far too much [wn.com] to be in charge of such an important project. Which brings me to my point - as nice as the Russians may be, we already have Quebec
Re: (Score:2)
Hooray. (Score:3, Insightful)
"Good old times" (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Well if we are claiming by ranges... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well if we are claiming by ranges... (Score:5, Funny)
Would you? Please! We'll explain it all later, promise
Yours truly,
English Canada
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Russia Claims Large Chunk of North Pole (Score:5, Insightful)
And here I thought the North Pole was a single infinitely small point.
Just give it to them (Score:2)
Re:Just give it to them (Score:5, Funny)
The bears and seals have had, literally, thousands of years to exploit these resources. If they aren't going to use it they should darn well stand aside for someone who is, period.
They had their chance.
Parent
let them have it (Score:2, Insightful)
if they can do that, they can keep it
i'm dead serious
and in my mind, i grant them wide latitude in what they can do to prevent it from melting
leadership and power is not static, something delivered form simple provenance. leadership and power is based on your ability to solve problems. it doesn't matter who solves global warming, but whomever does, goes the spoils of mankind's gratitude and fealty
but apparently, more people are interested in blame
Finally... (Score:2)
Like, With Guns and Stuff? (Score:3, Funny)
ummm (Score:2)
PirateBay & Sealand (Score:2, Funny)
On top of that just think of all the money they'd save on server cooling! hehe
Adeptus
There's no Santa in Russia (Score:2, Informative)
See here: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%
Domino theory (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, right... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh... that army...
Artic? (Score:5, Funny)
I say we file our claim for the Arctic before they get a chance to correct their misspelling.
The Coming Global Warming Wars (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Russia's claim makes more sense than the US cla (Score:5, Insightful)
Most [canada.com] of the world's major maritime powers agree with the US position that this is an international strait. If anything, it's Canada here that is acting unilaterally.
Although the OP is correct; the Canadians who depend on the US for their defense do not have the means to defend their claim even if they wanted to. That's reality for you I guess.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No one's getting the significance of this (Score:5, Insightful)
There's nothing sinister about stopping production before you've exhausted an oil field, either. At some point, it simply gets too expensive to recover the remaining oil, because of contaminants leaking into the field, or because the remaining oil is too thick/viscous to be pumped up without heating it first, etc. As the price of oil rises, restarting production may become economically viable again. We're seeing this happen at a local oil field (Schoonebeek), btw. Production stopped in 1996, when about 25% of the known contents of the field were pumped out. They're considering restarting production now, and expect to recover another 15% (150 million barrels).
Parent