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Verdict Reached In RIAA Trial
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Thu Oct 04, 2007 07:14 PM
from the finally-won-one dept.
from the finally-won-one dept.
jemtallon writes "The jury in the previously mentioned Captiol v Thomas story has reached a verdict. They have found in favor of the plaintiffs, Capitol, and ordered that she pay a $222,000 fine for 24 cases of copyright infringement."
Related Stories
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Testimony Wraps In RIAA Trial 132 comments
Eskimo Joe writes "A federal judge surprised observers in the Captiol v Thomas file-sharing trial yesterday by barring RIAA president Cary Sherman from testifying. 'After a brief recess this afternoon, plaintiffs' counsel Richard Gabriel and defendant's counsel David Toder made their cases before the judge as to the relevance of Sherman's testimony. Toder argued that Sherman's testimony was not relevant to the question at hand, the fact of whether Thomas was liable for copyright infringement. Gabriel said that Sherman would be able to tell the jury why this case was significant, and more importantly, describe the harm the RIAA believes piracy has caused to the music industry. "I don't want to turn this case into a soap box for the recording industry," Toder argued in response.' Testimony wrapped up today [Wednesday] with closing arguments expected Thursday morning." Ars has up a summary, filed a few hours earlier, of other testimony in the trial. The jury could come back with a verdict later today.
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Your Rights Online: White House Lauds MN RIAA Win, Analysis of Victory 368 comments
cnet-declan writes "The Bush administration's copyright czar says the RIAA's $222,000 recent jury verdict against a Minnesota woman shows copyright law is 'effective' and working as planned. C|Net's coverage has comments from Chris Israel, the U.S. Coordinator for International Intellectual Property Enforcement. Israel is formerly a senior Commerce Department official appointed by President Bush in July 2005 who previously worked for Time Warner's public policy arm (Warner Bros. Records is one of the plaintiffs in the RIAA case). The site also features an interview with Rep. Rick Boucher, no fan of the RIAA, on whether Congress will change the law, an analysis of why U.S. copyright law is broken, and four reasons why the RIAA won."
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Juror From RIAA Trial Speaks 918 comments
Damon Tog notes a Wired blog posting featuring quotes from a juror who took part in the recent RIAA trial. Some excerpts: "She should have settled out of court for a few thousand dollars... Spoofing? We're thinking, "Oh my God, you got to be kidding."... She lied. There was no defense. Her defense sucked... I think she thought a jury from Duluth would be naive. We're not that stupid up here. I don't know what the f**k she was thinking, to tell you the truth."
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Jammie Appeals, Citing "Excessive" Damages 403 comments
Peerless writes "Capitol v. Thomas defendant Jammie Thomas has officially appealed the RIAA's $222,000 copyright infringement award. She is seeking a retrial to determine the RIAA's actual damages, arguing that the jury's award was 'unconstitutionally excessive': 'Thomas would like to see the record companies forced to prove their actual damages due to downloading, a figure that Sony-BMG litigation head Jennifer Pariser testified that her company "had not stopped to calculate." In her motion, Thomas argues that the labels are contending that their actual damages are in the neighborhood of $20. Barring a new trial over the issue of damages, Thomas would like to see the reward knocked down three significant digits — from $222,000 to $151.20.'"
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Judge in Capitol v. Thomas Considers New Trial 234 comments
Jay Maynard writes "The judge in Capitol Records v. Thomas said today he's thinking about granting a new trial because he may have committed a 'manifest error of law' in his jury instructions. He says that his instruction that simply uploading music to a P2P network without any proof that anyone actually downloaded it may conflict with a case in the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals that said 'infringement of [the distribution right] requires an actual dissemination.' Briefs are due by May 29, with oral argument July 1. The judge invited friend of the court briefs by May 29, as well." NewYorkCountryLawyer links to the Judge's order itself (PDF), in which the Judge notes that he may (in NYCL's words) "have overlooked controlling Eighth Circuit authority, the case of National Car Rental v. Computer Associates, which held that you can't have a violation of the 'distribution right' without an 'actual dissemination of copies or phonorecords.'" Update: 05/15 18:54 GMT by T : Note that while the linked story as well as Jay Maynard's summary use the term "upload," Thomas wasn't uploading the files themselves, only making them available.
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Your Rights Online: Law Profs File Friend-of-Court Brief Against RIAA 186 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "A group of 10 copyright law professors has filed an amicus curiae ('friend of the court') brief on the side of the defendant in Capitol v. Thomas, agreeing with the judge's recent decision that the $222,000 verdict won by the RIAA appears to be tainted by a 'manifest error of law.' The clear and well-written 14-page brief (PDF) argues that the 'making available' jury instruction, which the RIAA had requested and the judge ultimately accepted, was in fact a 'manifest error of law,' making the point, among others, that an interpretation of a statute should begin with the words of the statute. My only criticism of the brief is that it overstates the authorities relied on by the RIAA, citing cases which never decided the 'making available' issue as cases which had decided it in the RIAA's favor."
As it turns out, the MPAA, close ally to the RIAA, has come forth with a more controversial view. They suggest that proof of actual distribution shouldn't be required. From their brief (PDF): "Mandating that proof could thus have the pernicious effect of depriving copyright owners of a practical remedy against massive copyright infringement in many instances."
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RIAA Gets Nervous, Brings In Big Gun 423 comments
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "I guess the RIAA is getting nervous about the ability of its 'national law firm' (in charge of bringing 'ex parte' motions, securing default judgments, and beating up grandmothers and children) to handle the oral argument scheduled to be heard on Monday, August 4th in Duluth, in Capitol v. Thomas. So, at the eleventh hour, it has brought in one of its 'Big Guns' from Washington, D.C., a lawyer who argues United States Supreme Court cases like MGM v. Grokster to handle the argument. This is the case where a $222,000 verdict was awarded for downloading 24 songs, but the judge ultimately realized that he had been misled by the RIAA in issuing his jury instructions, and indicated he's probably going to order a new trial. But, not to worry. A group of 10 copyright law professors from 10 different law schools and several other amici curiae (friends of the court) have filed briefs now, so it is highly unlikely the judge will allow himself to be misled again, no matter who the RIAA brings in as cannon fodder on Monday."
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Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Without such defense, a simple "preponderence of the evidence" (the criteria for a civil case) was inevitable.
Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
i guess they're just trying as hard as hell to make sure i don't listen to new music (which they're doing anyways--all of it sucks!) and i don't spend any money beyond what i have already spent building my collection. i might by emi music because i can get that in a format that will play on both of my devices, but that leaves all the other riaa companies in the lurch.
regardless, a $222,000 verdict for 24 songs is ridiculous. i haven't listened to a cd in my life that was worth $20,000 a song.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Funny)
They have such as system in place already. Its called "Fergie".
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's like getting a year in jail for a speeding ticket, or a $1000 fine for eating a grape in the supermarket produce section. It's just completely out of proportion to the punishment deserved. Sure, the music companies have the right to defend their interests, but fining a single, working mother more than she probably makes in five years is just vicious.
Congrats, RIAA. I wonder if that 200,000 dollars will make up for all the people alienated by the action? If you consider how many millions of dollars companies spend on advertising, the bad press generated by this story would be more than enough to offset the financial gain created by the fines and any reduced piracy. I mean, personally, the overwhelming majority of my music has been legally acquired in the past few years, but this makes me wonder why the hell I'm doing that, and whether I should actually be pirating more. Yes, I want to support the artists who produce the music, but I don't want to support these bullies.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider what likely went on in this woman's mind. She was an avid fan of music. She has acquired music probably with no real issue with the market prices. She most likely bought both albums and singles - a perfect music-industry customer. Then a new medium arrived where you can community-build.. Share interests.. Share similar tastes in music.. Sure it's free, but if anything else, the medium is more attractive.. Less restrictive than portable physical medium.
As any good netizen, she wants to contribute.. So while she may very well have downloaded quite a bit.. She was more than happy to share what she had (considering the neglegable cost to her - just setup time).
Consider that she's probably spent her whole life making mix-tapes.. Copying a CD or VHS to family and friends. We've had 20 years of built up social 'morals' with respect to sharing with friends. All perfectly legal.
So now RIAA starts tries to define the rules of this new media. US Court enforced 'backup copy' protection is in uncharted territory. People aren't profiting on piracy, they're merely part of a social network. The term Piracy is a horrible bastardization.. Piracy is when you pilfer (often via death) the wares of other sea-goers that are helpless. You then sell the pirated goods (boot-leg) at various ports.. People come to know that if you want cheap 'knock offs' you go to a port and buy from the pirate and their minions. There's an obvious moral imperative when you buy such boot-leg, because you must know that someone probably died to provide these cheap goods to you.. So using the terms Piracy and Boot-legging are supposed to associate large amounts of guilt.
So later boot-legging was the audio-taping of concerts against the permission of the artists. This was really an arbitrary determination by artists and labels that is akin to no 3'rd party food in a Theater. No moral obligation, merely an attempted monopoly by the vendor. If they can do it fine.. But I strongly oppose federal laws that encourage this behaviour - such that a Movie theater could hand a citizen over to the police for eating cokes bought at home.. Or likewise bringing a tape-recorder to a concert.
Back to our lady. Does she see the various RIAA advertisements? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps she's a perfectly naive and innocent girl. Maybe she knew full well that the RIAA was cracking down on Kazza, and she had the 'stick it to the evil empire' mentality.. Many rock-fans and alternative-fans were made to think this way through the very music that they're being sued for. Bitter Irony I would say. Most likely, however, she acted indifferently, much like the selection of our presidents are a matter of indifference to most Americans. The RIAA is slowly becoming irrelevant, and we are watching it's death-throws. US music is abominable compared to the rest of the world. The quality of work has continously degraded for the past century - thanks to the ability to amplify profits through brain-washing (repeated paid-for spots on radio/TV). Audiences develop a taste through repeated use.. And it's sad, but taste Americans are developing is mostly bland (with a few category exceptions). Singers have less and less attractive sound. Music is extremely repetative from one song to the next (if not already synthesized). Lyrics are a joke. The message is less and less condusive to society building or even renewing (even older angry Rap represented a contemporary cry for change).
This debate is endless. I don't expect to convince others that Patents and Copy-Right are evil capitalistic ventures of the old British Empire that unfortunately worked their way through the likes of Benjamin Franklin and others into the US.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing you point out is paramount. Since this was a civil case, the fine should be only enough to promote equity rather than be punitive in nature.
Another interesting thing is that, averaged out, this adds up to $9250 per infringement. At that price the defendant could have physically stolen about 600 copies of each work (assuming around $15 per work). So it pays to remember that the fines for physically stealing copyrighted works are much less than infringing on them.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Informative)
One thing you point out is paramount. Since this was a civil case, the fine should be only enough to promote equity rather than be punitive in nature.
Another interesting thing is that, averaged out, this adds up to $9250 per infringement. At that price the defendant could have physically stolen about 600 copies of each work (assuming around $15 per work). So it pays to remember that the fines for physically stealing copyrighted works are much less than infringing on them.
This was actually addressed in the Ars Technica writeup of the case. Normally the damages for copyright infringement are a few hundred dollars ($300 max rings a bell). In the case of willful infringement, however, damages can increase up to $150,000 per incident. The jury found that the defendant had engaged in such willful infringement, and could have awarded up to $3.6 million ($150,000 for each of 24 songs being distributed).
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Interesting)
Next time you want to sell CDs on the sidewalk in $LARGE_CITY, make sure they're stolen copies rather than bootlegs. Your monetary penalty will be much less. You're looking at jail time for passing stolen merchandise, but that's criminal court so you get a free lawyer and the burden of proof is higher.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
What the RIAA doesn't understand is that a LOT of people are perfectly willing to pay for the songs, we just don't want to pay for copies of them that we don't have control over. I run Linux on all my computers and my work is a linux shop, DRM'ed music is hardly even an option (not that I would pay for it if I could, I'd get a CD in a second over a DRM'ed piece of crap).
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Set up an account - at Amazon MP3 Music Store [amazon.com], MP3Tunes [mp3tunes.com], eMusic [emusic.com], others in time...
2. Hope they have a song you want (they might, they might not... probably not yet)
3. Buy the song (Just takes a click or two)
4. Put the song on any mp3 player (done, no drm at these stores!)
5. Play the song on Linux (well, need an mp3 codec but whatev, you need one in windows too)
6. Share the songs with your friends (Complaining that it's hard to share songs with your friends is the whole purpose of DRM. If you'd respect copyright and let your friends buy their own MP3's, we wouldn't need DRM. You're not legally allowed to redistribute copyrighted songs without authorization from the copyright holder - that goes way beyond fair use imho)
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Informative)
Okay.
In the 1976 Act the amounts were $250 - $10,000, and could be lowered to $100 or raised to $50,000. Congress amended this in 1988, making the new amounts $500 - $20,000, $250, and $100,000. Congress amended it again in 1999, making the new amounts $750 - $30,000, left the minimum possible floor at $250, and $150,000.
I'm thinking that the forces that got Congress to raise the statutory damages in 1999 were well aware of how cheaply copying could be done for. Likewise, the idea that not all copying was commercial and that individuals acting noncommercially could run afoul of copyright laws was well known at that time.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Informative)
I am a big proponent of it. unfortunately, talking about it gets my excluded form jury duty.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather believe these guys:
The condemnation of jury nullification is a relatively recent event in the nation's history. In the North around the time of the Civil War, juries often use nullification in order to protect runaway slaves, which were required by law to be returned to their so-called "owners." Now, though, we've gone from jurists encouraging nullification when needed, through active discouraging using nullification, through dismissing potential jurors who even know what nullification is, all the way to fellow jurors being encouraged to rat you out for dismissal if they suspect that you might be making decisions based on nullification.
Nullification at one time was thought of a person's last best defense against bad laws. This case is a perfect example of why we still need it, so that people can affect the outcome of such cases in a just and equitable manner, not merely in a way that lobbyists have paid politicians for.
Oh well, chalk it up to yet one more noble goal of our system that's gone down the drain. However, people need to know that in spite of anything the courts tell you, you do have the right of nullification. As a juror, you need to make decisions not only on the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law as well. As has already been pointed out, though, don't give any indication that you're smart to know that or you will be immediately dismissed.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Somebody else in this discussion had a valid point. You are sitting on the jury for Rosa Parks [wikipedia.org]. Technically she broke the law. Do you find her guilty? Go back further. You are sitting on the jury for a runaway slave. Technically he also broke the law. What if you were on the jury for the Scopes Trial [wikipedia.org]?
Hmm, jury nullification is starting to sound better now, isn't it?
There is also a good reason why our constitution requires a trial by a jury of your peers. If the law you are accused of breaking is fundamentally unjust then do you really deserve to be punished for breaking it? Are you telling me that if you were sitting on the jury for any of the above examples you'd allow a conviction to happen? Or how about some modern examples? Would you send a terminally ill person with cancer to prison for possessing medical marijuana?
Short of armed insurrection, the jury system is our last line of defense against Government abuses of power. No wonder the courts and "good lawyers" (to quote you) hate it.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
The U.S. is supposed to be a society committed to justice and the spirit of the law. The quote from U.S. vs Thomas makes it seem like the letter of the law is most important. It isn't. Or at least it shouldn't be.
That's the WHOLE POINT of trial by jury "of your peers". If the letter of the law was the only criteria for judging guilty vs. innocent, then it wouldn't matter at all who's peers sat in the jury box.
My "personal issues" are exactly what makes me a much better juror than some thoughtless Turing machine. [wikipedia.org]
U.S. vs. Thomas is a travesty if you value trial by jury as envisioned by our founding fathers.
Give the FIJA [fija.org] site a thorough reading. It ought to be mandatory grade-school curriculum.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a crock.
"The jury has the right to judge both the law as well as the fact in controversy." - Chief Justice John Jay [psu.edu]
"It's not only ....(the juror's) right, but his duty, in that case, to find the verdict according to his own best understanding, judgement, and conscience, though in direct opposition to the direction of the court." - John Adams [levellers.org]
"The judge cannot direct a verdict it is true, and the jury has the power to bring in a verdict in the teeth of both law and facts." - Oliver Wendell Holmes [findlaw.com]
"In the trial of all criminal cases, the Jury shall be the Judges of Law, as well as of fact, except that the Court may pass upon the sufficiency of the evidence to sustain a conviction." -- Constitution of the State of Maryland [md.gov]
At the time of the framing of the Constitution, it was well understood that a jury meant a panel of persons empowered to render judgment on both the facts and the law. The ignorance - or straight-out power grabbing - of later judges cannot remove this right.
(I also note that despite the erroneous statement you quote, the court did find the dismissing the juror was an error and remanded the case for new trial.) [findlaw.com]
There is a large difference between "having personal issues" that make one partial to a person involved in the case, and judging the law and finding it wanting.
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
The government can't punish you for returning an acquittal, regardless of the reasons for doing so (and they're reluctant to ask if they do at all); but they can certainly (and should) prevent you from sitting on the jury if they feel your impartiality will be threatened by your personal issues.
It has everything to do with the reason for having a "jury of your peers".
The reason that we have a right to a jury of our peers (and not, say, a professional jury of lawyers or policemen or other vested groups) is that there is the understanding that unfair laws will get passed and unfairly used as weapons.
Rosa Parks was actually arrested and taken to jail by the police for the real crime of not giving up her seat to a white person. She did do something that was against Alabama law, so would you as an Alabama juror convict her and send her to prison? That would be your only choice, unless you knew about jury nullification.
There was a guy in Georgia who spent 10 years in jail for the crime of "conspiracy to create marijuana" -- in spite of the fact that he was not found to have possessed or done anything illegal. [creativeloafing.com] His crime was knowing that some of his customers were using the equipment he sold them to grow marijuana.
Jury nullification is a fantastic tool that needs to be used more often, because we have too many miscarriages of justice in this country. 12 states have rebelled against marijuana laws and instituted medical marijuana policies so far, but the federal government insists on ignoring the will of the people and continues to promote "Prohibition 2.0". Should a person using marijuana for medical purposes be convicted if they are following the law of their state?
The system may not like jury nullification, but it is the best tool that jurors have to help stop the havoc that unfair laws can cause.
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Re:The music wasn't hers to share (Score:5, Interesting)
Somehow 24 songs shared to some unknown but probably reasonably small number of people translates into $222k in damages? Considering a song is $1 on iTunes, she'd have to share each song to over 9000 people to cause that much in lost revenue (not that the full $1 goes to the record companies, but we can pretend...). At the low end, a song might be 2 megs? So she'd have had to share nearly half a terrabyte to accomplish this. That's a lot of data for 24 songs!
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Unfortunately inevitable... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Download virus (Score:5, Informative)
It's a civil case.
It's a civil case.
How many more times?
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Appeal fund? (Score:5, Insightful)
12 peers? HA! (Score:4, Insightful)
For music.
This jury of 12 idiots decided to ruin someone's life for 24 songs. Great going, guys.
her defense just didn't wash (Score:5, Informative)
It's a shame that the defendant of this first RIAA jury trial turned out to be a liar with a bogus defense. But apparently, that's who she was. Given the facts brought out in the case, I don't see how the jury could have found for the defense.
Open and shut case, but crazy fines! (Score:5, Insightful)
Prosecution:
Tried to get the RIAA president to testify, who has nothing to do with the facts of the case.
This Case Was Decided ... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Instruction no. 14 proved to be a sticking point, as Thomas' counsel Brian Toder told Ars tonight that the judge's proposed instruction indicated that the plaintiffs must show that an actual transfer took place in order for there to be a finding of infringement. "
Later, the judge reversed his opinion, at which point I knew this was over, but was at least still hopeful that the damages would be somewhat reasonable.
According to the coverage at Ars, it was pretty clear that the RIAA had found the right person; they had used this same account name for an email address that a witness had verified was hers. The only remaining question in my mind was how well the making available argument would hold up before a jury. Unfortunately, it appeared as though the defense didn't focus any attention on this critical part of the prosecution's argument (until the 11th hour when the judge was deciding what instructions to give the jury for deliberations). Had the defense been pounding the drum of "making available is not provable infringement" instead of "let me show you how fast you can rip a CD", then this jury (and perhaps even the judge with respect to the jury instructions) may have been compelled to decide differently.
In any event, it is what it is. The RIAA set their desired precedent, but for me there are still a couple of lingering questions:
1. Is this really a good thing for the RIAA? I mean, we've heard about the lawsuit threats against dead people, grandmas, and kids, but now there is an actual verdict in a jury trial that pins a $220K judgment against a single mother. I have this feeling that this case is going to make much greater waves in the main stream media then the no-go lawsuit threats (dismissed with/without prejudice) or the tens of thousands of settlement cases. Because of this I also think there is a huge potential for blowback on a large scale, not just in the geek circles.
2. Does the judge have any discretion to lower the damages? It seems as though he's given the defense every opportunity to succeed, from the "this courtroom is not your soap box" comments to the RIAA, to initially requiring evidence of a file transfer actually taking place in the jury instructions. If he does have discretion, I would be surprised if he didn't use it.
All in all, this is a sad situation. Single mother, probably with little to no idea what she was doing, targeted by the RIAA, then levied with enough fines to ruin her life. The RIAA, a lawsuit happy organization continuing to rob artists, consumers, and own our government, are having a champagne toast tonight thanks to their victory in court today. Enjoy your victory, and as far as "setting a precedent," you should be careful what you wish for.
Most telling quote of the whole ordeal (Score:5, Insightful)
"This is what can happen if you don't settle," RIAA attorney Richard Gabriel told reporters outside the courthouse.
Notice how they throw in an impassioned plea to roll over and take it? This court case is nothing about justice - it's an extension to their protection racket. (quote from here) [wired.com]
When, oh when, will somebody step in and nail these guys with a RICO suit? [wikipedia.org]
A wakeup call (Score:5, Insightful)
In a case where there was zero evidence of the defendant having transferred any of those files?.
It is one of the most irrational things I have ever seen in my life in the law.
If the Judge doesn't set aside the verdict sua sponte, I expect there to be motion practice to set aside the verdict, based on its obvious unconstitutionality and numerous other reasons, and if that fails I expect there to be a successful appeal.
It is an outrage, and I hope it is a wakeup call to the world that we all need to start supporting the defendants in these cases, and the attorneys who are sacrificing so much to represent them. And the support cannot be with words, it must be with check books. And it cannot be next year, it must be now.
All the business people who make a living from the vibrancy, democracy, and freedom of expression which is the internet, need to get behind the RIAA's victims; if they do not, the world in which they hope to thrive and prosper will disappear rapidly.
The RIAA ghouls smelled blood in Duluth, and I guess they were right.
But it isn't over.
Re:Intellectual property is fiction (Score:5, Funny)
(This post was written by a would-be novelist, but is 59,970 words too short to qualify as a novel.)
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ridiculous for you maybe (Score:5, Funny)
Not many people know this, but that's the price they originally wanted to charge per song on iTunes.
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Tragedy of the commons in 3... 2... 1... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're better off using a P2P program that's designed to hide your activity than slapping TOR over one that isn't designed for it.
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Re:Don't do the CRIME if you can't pay the FINE !! (Score:5, Informative)
> "Don't do the CRIME if you can't pay the FINE !!"
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Re:Don't do the CRIME if you can't pay the FINE !! (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Can she still file bankruptcy? (Score:5, Insightful)
She will go bankrupt and tell the RIAA to eat a dick, but they already knew that. They just want to get it in the paper, "Jury awards 222,000 to RIAA from single mother who shared mp3s online." That's all they're looking for.
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Re:Can she still file bankruptcy? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Can she still file bankruptcy? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Don't do the CRIME if you can't pay the FINE !! (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, it will be automatically discharged, unless RIAA contests it in adversarial proceeding. If they wanted to be real pricks they could probably drag it out for some time. This is nothing new, Scientology has done it to a bunch of their critics.
That said, bankruptcy judges typically take a rather dim view of creditors that try to do this -- the whole point to bankruptcy is to give the honest person a fresh start (there aren't supposed to be debtor's prisons in the US). Besides which, the whole point of the RIAA suits isn't to collect money. It's to get the headline of "Jury awards $220,000 to RIAA for file sharing". There is exactly zero chance that they will ever collect any sizable sum of this money, bankruptcy or not. Take a look at OJ Simpson. How long has he dodged that judgment?
That's a myth. It's become more expensive for those filers that retain an attorney, because of the new requirements imposed under BAPCPA [wikipedia.org]. There's also the added cost of the required credit courses and consoling, but this is typically not a huge expense.
Another myth. The consequences of filing BK didn't change at all under the new laws. The only 'consequence' that changed is that you have to wait 8 years before you can file again, vs 6 years under the old laws. The biggest consequence of filing bankruptcy is that it goes on your credit report for 10 years. It's a myth that you won't be able to obtain credit after a BK. I'm two years from my Ch 7 and I have a car loan at 5.5% and $5,900 worth of credit limits. I could probably obtain more if I wanted to (why bother?)
It is what it always has been -- a last ditch safety net for those with no hope of ever repaying their debts. Unless this woman makes a huge amount of income and can realistically pay this debt back in the next five years, this sounds like the perfect reason to file bankruptcy to me. With few exceptions (student loans, taxes, child support) we don't allow debtors prisons/debt slavery in the United States.
And yes, I've been through all of this. I filed Chapter 7 under the old laws. I still maintain a relationship with the attorney that did my case. I wound up becoming his computer consultant. He would be the first to tell you that not too much changed under the new laws. 95% of his clients are so deeply in debt that they qualify for a Ch 7 even after the "means test" imposed by BAPCPA. The image of scores of deadbeat debtors with the money to repay their debts abusing the bankruptcy system was nothing more then propaganda put out by the credit industry.
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Re:Don't do the CRIME if you can't pay the FINE !! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Whoops (Score:5, Insightful)
a. don't use a swarming protocol like Bit Torrent (not a good choice for small files anyway) and,
b. make sure you're a leecher (not lecher, as I assume most Slashdotters already are.) As I understand it, all these cases have come about from the people making files available, not the people actually downloading them.
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Steal from the RIAA- BUY USED MUSIC! (Score:5, Insightful)
The moral of the story? THE RIAA IS SCARED STUPID. She had 400 CDs at one point!!!!!!! They just sued the shit out of one of their best customers!
Fuck these people. Hey, I just 'stole' a CD. Yep, I got a perfect digital copy of the recording and the recording industry didn't get a DIME. Know what I did? I bought a USED CD! Roll up a hondo and snort that Sony.
So that's the moral of the story. BUY USED MUSIC. Hey, old vinyl is cheaper than iTunes and sounds better too. It's the best way to 'steal' from the music industry because it's 100% legal, and it robs them of a sale from a person WHO IS ACTUALLY WILLING TO PAY MONEY FOR THE MUSIC.
If you're a musician, record yourself, it's far easier than it ever was. Then sell your own stuff through iTunes or something if you want to get paid. You don't need these people unless you want them to pay for publicity or your recording (but they'll just take it out of your check anyways).
It sounds way better than mp3, it's cheaper, and best of all you'll be doing YOUR part to help kill the record industry!
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Re:Steal from the RIAA- BUY USED MUSIC! (Score:5, Interesting)
For one, I've bought used music and had to deal with scratches on CD.
Secondly, selling out of the used albums may indicate to record owners that there's demand for the full albums.
I haven't bought an album from the RIAA since 2001 - and I make -damn sure- to check RIAA radar before I go out and buy.
But that's not the only place I hurt them.
See, right now I'm about to film a documentary. And to do that, I need a camera, a recording device for audio, and a laptop computer to take with me.
I COULD have gotten the Sony camera, but instead I went with the Canon HV20.
I COULD have gone with an Sony MD recorder, but instead I'm going with a Zoom H2
I COULD have gone with a Sony Vaio, but instead I'm going to be buying from ANYBODY ELSE.
And the background music will be licensed from Magnatune.
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Re:Steal from the RIAA- BUY USED MUSIC! (Score:5, Interesting)
Any decent place will give you a refund, or at least I would hope so. The really cool places will let you listen first, which is awesome and is really a big plus for buying used. Buy from whoever treats you right, RIAA or not.
"Secondly, selling out of the used albums may indicate to record owners that there's demand for the full albums."
This isn't necessarily true, it goes both ways. A big demand for used music encourages people to SELL their music too (and for stores to buy it), and the higher the demand, the bigger the secondary market and the bigger the loss to the record industry. Some people will just buy and rip, not saying that's right but when you add these people in, you can have CDs changing hands many times. This is a bad thing if it really taints the used market, but the worst that will happen is further DRM which will piss off customers much more but end up getting cracked anyways. Either way it weakens their position.
"I haven't bought an album from the RIAA since 2001 - and I make -damn sure- to check RIAA radar before I go out and buy."
There ya go. Awesome suggestion. I didn't even know about them. Pretty much none of the CD's I've bought lately have come from them. That really says something.
"I COULD have gone with a Sony Vaio, but instead I'm going to be buying from ANYBODY ELSE."
Good idea. It's funny, but I think IBM hates Sony as much as you do- I mean they make the hard drives people load their MP3s on AND the Cell Processor
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Re:How you REALLY hurt the RIAA: don't sign with t (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does a musician need to make money hand-over-fist anyway? The whole modern model of producing and selling music is artificial and absurd anyway. I've gotten to where I never buy CDs anymore, and I never download music either. It's entertainment. You won't die without it. And, if organizations like RIAA weren't around, maybe there would be more regional differences in music again. You know. Culture. The thing that's missing today.
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Re:Steal from the RIAA- BUY USED MUSIC! (Score:5, Funny)
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its about empowering artists, not gatekeepers (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to be missing the joke. Buying used CDs will not actually kill the record industry, any more than piracy will. But the record industry should and will eventually have to change, and it will ultimately benefit both consumers and musicians much more- but at the big boys' expense. This is because their primary role, putting physical discs on shelves, is no longer necessary. That's just how technology works, it changes things- but they want to blame something they think they have (some) control over.
When everyone has a huge hi-def screen connected to a ultra-high bandwidth connection, television companies and movie chains will no longer control distribution of content either. Everyone from Joe Schmoe to NBC will have their own spot on the dial. Movie theaters will have to get into the 21st century in a big hurry or they will be a thing of the past too.
The main thing that's happening is not piracy, that's a consequence of the technology but not the fundamental shift that these people most fear. They need to maintain their control of the distribution system far more than they need to contain piracy. Piracy can't get much worse in music and people are still making money. Piracy will always be a psuedo tax on any information industry but the real shift will be who makes the money.
You bash indie movies, music etc, but it's just a consequenece of lowering of the barriers to entry. The big boys can still play, and will still make whatever you're willing to pay for- they will just have much more competition. (That being said, big budget popcorn movies are definitely going to be an endangered species- mostly because video games will almost completely kill them. People will have to go back to telling stories.)
You complain, but you will love it. You're disrespecting indie music and movies because you have a preconceived view of them- you won't once more people like you start doing that stuff, and once technology makes creativity king once again. While high end equipment gets cheaper, better and more user friendly, people's ears and eyes will notice the high end less and less. When industries begin to mature, that's what happens.
So, now remind me... what part of musicians keeping more of their money and their rights is going to discourage them from producing good music again?
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Re:Target the executives (Score:5, Insightful)
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a court of appeals does not re-try the facts (Score:5, Interesting)
The court of appeal does not re-try the facts.
The court of appeal is not interested in facts. It is interested in process - how the judge and jury came to their decision.
The appellant must make a clear and convincing legal argument that the trial judge made a fatal error. In the admission of evidence. In his instructions to the jury. Something of that sort.
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