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Japan to Start Fingerprinting Foreign Travelers
Posted by
Zonk
on Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:42 PM
from the welcome-to-the-country-you-get-to-leave-a-piece-behind dept.
from the welcome-to-the-country-you-get-to-leave-a-piece-behind dept.
rabiddeity writes "If you're planning to visit Japan sometime in the near future, you should be aware of the welcome you'll get. Last year, Japan's parliament passed a measure requiring foreigners to submit their fingerprints when entering the country. The measures, which apply to all foreigners over 16 regardless of visa status, take effect tomorrow. The worst part: the fingerprints are stored in a national database for an "unspecified time", and will be made available to both domestic police and foreign governments."
Related Stories
[+]
Your Rights Online: British Airport Will Require Fingerprints From Domestic Passengers 279 comments
ProfBooty brings us a story about England's Heathrow airport, which will begin fingerprinting passengers on its domestic flights later this month. Airport executives claim that the data will be stored for no longer than 24 hours, and will not be shared with law enforcement. We've previously discussed airport fingerprinting measures in the United States and Japan. Quoting:
"All four million domestic passengers who will pass through Terminal 5 annually after it opens on March 27 will have four fingerprints taken, as well as being photographed, when they check in. To ensure the passenger boarding the aircraft is the same person, the fingerprinting process will be repeated just before they board the aircraft and the photograph will be compared with their face. Dr Gus Hosein, of the London School of Economics, an expert on the impact on technology on civil liberties, is one of the scheme's strongest critics. He said: 'There is no other country in the world that requires passengers travelling on internal flights to be fingerprinted. BAA says the fingerprint data will be destroyed, but the records of who has travelled within the country will not be, and it will provide a rich source of data for the police and intelligence agencies.'"
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Shared? (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I supposed to just accept that this violation-by-proxy is legal?
Re:Shared? (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was in the Finnish Army, one of our instructors said (bad translation): "Group punishment (that is, punishing the whole group when you can't figure out who's the real culprit) is forbidden, but there are ways around that."
That was a moment of epiphany for me, the moment when I stopped respecting the law and the authority behind it. It was an insignificant incident in itself, but it certainly drove home that the authority is not my friend, but rather a mass of corruption, and should be avoided whenever possible in any of its forms. It was also the moment when whatever lingering remains of nationalism still existed in my heart died out for good. For all that I owe a debt of gratitude I can never repay to that instructor.
So, don't hate your overlords, but learn from them. They want to get your fingerprints ? Forge them.
Parent
The usual post (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Post anymously for obvious reason.
We know you did it, OJ.
Re:The usual post (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
This policy sounds familiar... (Score:3, Informative)
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/07/0127227 [slashdot.org]
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/08/125235 [slashdot.org]
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/26/1944228 [slashdot.org]
Yes, apparently it could. Japan isn't the first by a long shot.
Submit Citizen! (Score:3, Funny)
And while I am at it, can I interest you in some Florida Condominiums?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
At the rate things are going, I am beginning to fear that your sig is correct.
The US has been doing this for a while now. (Score:5, Insightful)
When the US started to fingerprint foreign travellers, a whole bunch of countries threatened to do that to visting US citizens. It is nice to see Japan follow through with their threat, albeit a few years later (although they are not just focussing on US citizens). I can see a bunch of Americans getting really upset about this and declaring they'll never travel to Japan, but what the Japanese Government are doing is really no different than what the US Government is doing to everyone else.
Personally I don't like being treated as a criminal. However, as much as I could complain about it, it won't be stopping me from travelling.
Re:The US has been doing this for a while now. (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Let me tell you how ridiculous this is... (Score:5, Informative)
Despite this, from this Tuesday I will be required to line up with the regular foreign tourists and have my picture and fingerprints taken every time I enter Japan and every time I *leave* Japan.
Also, I still have to make sure I have a re-entry permit which I have to get every 3 years or I will lose my status completely.
All of this because I *might* be a terrorist or criminal.
The one thing I wonder is, if I pass away during a trip abroad are they going to take my picture and fingerprints when they bring my body back to the nice gravesite in rural Gumma prefecture where I'm going to be buried when I die?
Re:Let me tell you how ridiculous this is... (Score:4, Informative)
1) You don't have to be a permanent resident to go through the "Japanese" line at Immigration. All you need is a re-entry permit. A person on a 3-month Entertainer visa can go through the JP Citizen line if they have a re-entry permit.
2) It doesn't necessarily take five to ten years to get permanent residency. The path that most permanent residents take is to marry a Japanese. In that case, 3 years of being married to a Japanese (with one year of that residing in Japan). To compare, in 2000 the U.S. required two years of marriage (but no residency requirement) for my Japanese spouse to receive permanent residency. Easier, but not that different.
3) You don't know that you will be required to line up with regular foreigners in the immigration line to get fingerprinted.
4) Lining up in the Japanese line is not always faster. Depending on the flights coming in, the Alien/Foreigner lines are sometimes faster and/or smaller. The big benefits you get from permanent residency is a) not needing a visa or a reason (job or spouse) to be in Japan and b) (making it easier to) qualify for home/business loans and consumer credit.
5) The re-entry permit length for permanent residency is not always three years. It lasts until you have to renew your permanent residency status. Usually five years. In comparison, a permanent resident of the U.S. (may) lose their status if they're out of the U.S. for more than a year, unless they can prove a residual tie or they have a re-entry permit. The U.S. re-entry permit lasts only two years. And it's much more expensive (>$150 for one-time use max 2 year US re-entry permit vs ¥3000 for a JP one-timer or ¥6000 for multiple-use permit).
One last thing: you obviously haven't lived in Japan for a very long time, as the non-fingerprinting of foreigners is a new post Y2K phenomenon. Granted, in the past it was done at the Ward Office and put on your Alien Registration Card.
To compare, as an American citizen, I've been fingerprinted for all sorts of jobs: working as a substitute public teacher during college and working at an investment bank. Many Americans whose jobs deal with law enforcement, children, or handling large amounts of money are required to submit to fingerprinting (and often drug tests).
* Also: UNDER FIVE minutes from plane to train? C'mon, even without a single human obstacle in your way, that's at least a sprint/race-walk pace from the jetway and down a lot of hallways and escalators to either the Keisei line or the JR line.
Parent
Re:Let me tell you how ridiculous this is... (Score:4, Interesting)
1. I didn't say that others with different visas couldn't do this as well. As you say anyone with a re-entry permit can, but then you have to explain the re-entry permit system to everyone. The only real point is that a special ability that you were granted as a resident of Japan is now being taken away and the value of your status in Japan has been reduced to nil as far as airport immigration is concerned. You, me and those lovely Filipino "entertainers" will have to shift over to the visitor counters.
2. Get real. That four years is a theoretical minimum that almost never applies in practice. It took me 5 years and I was married to a Japanese and already had one kid. My friends have all taken MUCH longer. The requirements to get a Permanent Residence have also become MUCH stricter as of late.
3. Yes I do. There has been a LOT of discussion about this on JapanProbe.com, JapanToday.com and JapanTimes.com. Although current residents have spotted the camera and fingerprint machines at the Japanese passport counters they has been no guarantee that they will be used there unless there is an overflow of foreign tourists. We'll see in a couple of days when the lines at immigration stretch back to the planes.
4. That's obvious, You'll always pick the the shorter lines but every single time I've entered over the past 10 years the Japanese lines have always been shorter. In any case I've never found the visitor counters faster. if you're heading over to the Japanese counters they can assume you already are legit.
5. This is confusing. You don't renew a permanent resident permit. The maximum length of a re-entry permit is 3 years for regular visa holders and permanent residents. There is a 5-year re-entry permit that can only be obtained by Special Permanent Residents (The resident Koreans for the most part). The validity of a multiple re-entry permit can usually only be affected by the expiry of your Alien Registration Card or passport.
Your last two points made me chuckle. I have already been fingerprinted by the Ward office. I started living permanently in Japan in 1986. The advancement we permanent residents were able to achieve by the removal of the fingerprinting requirement is now being taken away. The most important point to remember is that Japanese are NEVER fingerprinted unless they have been found guilty of a crime. I don't know for certain that Japanese applying for high-security positions aren't fingerprinted but knowing the cultural stigma associated with it, I think it unlikely. The usual excuse is that the Japanese have koseki so they don't need that form of identification.
And finally, yes, it is possible and I time myself to try and set a new record but that will no longer be possible. A sub 5-minute transition requires it just being myself with only a backpack at a brisk jog from the jetway without having to take the shuttle at terminal 2. No-one lined up at the Japanese and re-entrant's immigration counters with a friendly young male officer who tend to want to get rid of you quicker then a run down the escalators and use the same young male officer trick at customs walking up to him with passport open at the eijukyouka page and saying "Konnichiwa, eijusha desu kedo, kyou shucho kara kaetekimashita. That gets me through without them even opening my pack. Then it's just another little sprint down to the Skyliner ticket counter.
Parent
Re:Let me tell you how ridiculous this is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Accept Japanese citizenship -- thanks but no thanks, I'd rather have the flexibility of my existing Canadian passport. If it means my whole family has to pack its bags and we move back to Canada, so that I can stop having my taxes go to support a repressive government that treats me like a criminal, I'll happily leave Japan to the demographic disaster looming on the horizon.
Given this country's low birthrate, aging population, and pension plan on the brink of collapse, immigration is the only answer. If the Japanese government believes that it can sustain population/economic growth while treating immigrants like criminals, this country will get what it deserves. The rest of us will be watching it collapse from the countries we've returned home to.
Parent
Thanks to the US (Score:3, Insightful)
Very soon, they will realize that taking thumb prints has no effect at deterring a man ready to "meet his God" or "getting rewarded with 70 virgins", just like the we did.
Trouble is, it will become quite apparent very late in time. Thanks to the US.
Re:Thanks to the US (Score:5, Informative)
Japan used to fingerprint all foreigners when they had to get their "gaijin cards". This was fought and overturned in 1999. Now Japan is playing the "terror" card to once again fingerprint foreigners. This is why the foreigners who live here are not exempt.
A few years back Japan tried to implement a program fingerprinting all of Japan's Citizens. There was a public outcry and the plan was scrapped, but foreigners are foreigners and fair game.
There are many things I love about Japan, but this is simply a waste of time and money.
Oh, here is a nice promotional video Japan has kindly put together for us stupid foreign people.
http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/common/moviechk.php?p=1203&d=0&t=110&b=0&m=1&r=2 [gov-online.go.jp]
You can easily see their perception of foreigners as slightly retarded, happy, future criminals by the way we are portrayed in this video.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That video is so insulting and so amateurish that it's hard to believe it ever saw the light of day. The really ironic part is that the Ministry of Justice (see, I watched all the way to the end) could have easily--and for a small amount of money--have gotten an American PR firm to create an infomercial so good that people throughout the western would would have paid to rent it. Because we gaijin really are slightly retarded--and now we know that we're not the only ones.
Your Papers, Please... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Your Papers, Please... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Balance of Power (Score:5, Insightful)
Each new power given to the government must be balanced by a power of the citizenry. Else, this is just another step on the path to a facist state.
These new powers of surveillance and databases that we're giving our governments are vast. Never before in history has a country been able to monitor the movements and transactions of everyone, with so much precision. I know of no balancing power that has been given to the citizens in countries such as the US, UK, and now Japan, to check that the government is not abusing these powers. And the citizenry certainly does not have the equivalent power of knowing the private travel habits of their officials.
The fact of the matter is that these kinds of powers are far more useful for tracking law-abiding citizens than catching criminals. You don't catch criminals by identifying all the non-criminals. The database of non-criminals is totally useless, since any truly nefarious characters will avoid it, and not end up in your database at all. These kinds of things are often justified on the basis of preventing petty crime. But, this is far too large a power to give the government to reduce petty crime. Petty crime will never hit zero.
Instead, these new kinds of powers have far more use in tracking political enemies and corporate espionage. For instance just before the next G8 summit you can bet there will be new names on the no-fly lists. Before a major political debate, the challenging candidate will be denied travel. Governments will be able to determine when competing corporations are traveling for a meeting, and deny entry to those people. For people who are not political dissidents or corporate higher-ups, the only possible consequence besides deterioration of our democratic systems is that we will end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and be accused of committing a crime. The dragnet will have found us. And the evidence will be ironclad. Because, fingerprints are never wrong, are they?
I need a succinct way to explain these issues. The fact of the matter these arguments always come down to the brain-dead simple arguments that are difficult to refute: a) This will help catch <latest bogeyman>; and b) I'm not a <latest bogeyman> so why should I care? I need a one-sentence refutation to these arguments to give the people that don't think very hard about it. Obviously those interested in preserving freedom such as myself are not winning this argument. Anyone want to suggest one in the comments?
--Bob
Perfect timing (Score:5, Interesting)
Bonus points for this idiot minister [bbc.co.uk] using a bullshit "a friend of a friend is in Al Quaeda, therefore all foreigners are dangerous" claim to justify this crap.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The terrorist of the future... (Score:4, Funny)
Gov't Video/Poster on this + an online petition (Score:5, Informative)
First off, I'd encourage everyone who opposes this policy to register their views with this online petition [ipetitions.com].
I would also encourage you to write a letter to the Ministry of Justice at:
Also, send a copy to the Japanese National Tourist Organization, making clear the impact on tourism, at their Japanese headquarters and your regional office listed at the URL below:
Not only is this policy an invasion of privacy, but also discriminatory in its application. Of the major terrorist incidents in Japan, none has been committed by a foreigner -- 1995 Tokyo Sarin Gas attacks, bombing of government office buildings in Hokkaido in the 70s, assassination of the Mayor of Nagasaki... all perpetrated by Japanese nationals.
Further, fingerprinting is dubious at best in preventing terrorist attacks. A terrorist organization capable of a serious attack on Japan is capable of entering the country without passing through immigration. From the point of view of politics, however, fingerprinting foreigners is an easy way to make it appear as though you're getting tough on terrorism and foreign crime.
Lastly, The Japanese government has produced an introductory video [gov-online.go.jp] on the new scheme that you really have to see to believe. As the guy in the video says "I'll pass it on to all my friends". I get the feeling this won't have the effect the Japanese government intends it to have.
They've also put out a PDF version [immi-moj.go.jp] of the poster for this program.
Another way to protest...request for help (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
...and this differs US entry practices HOW? (Score:5, Insightful)
Who is Disney working for (Score:3, Insightful)
Then she started with the bogus line "It is not a fingerprint, it is a biometric. All it does is measure the width and length of your finger".
When I still refused, and asked for my parking and admission back, at that point they let my family in quite quickly. Lesson? keep fighting!
THE BIG QUESTION... Where does disney store these, how long, and given the cozy relationship between Disney and the US government - how many of us believe they will not end up in the hands of the government?
Description of the new gate system (Score:4, Informative)
I lost my first post which included this and a small rant. Whatever. I am quite unhappy about this, and it seems to reverse the direction they were going, but the U.S. remains the king of security theater and it is an easy political win I suppose. They already got my photo and fingerprint from my passport and old foreigner card but I know I'm going to hate this. If it is in fact required.
Forwarded Email:
---
Further to my message on new immigration procedures last week, this is to
inform you that Ministry of Justice has now issued instructions in English
on how to undergo pre-registration for the new semi automatic gate system to
be established at Narita Airport on November 20.
Please find attached the instruction document, which should be available
soon on the MoJ website.
---
[For Foreigners]
(Reference Material for the PR Dept.)
Operation of the Automated Gate
Ministry of Justice, Immigration Bureau
1. Introduction
Automated gates will be placed at Narita Airport from November 20th, 2007, in order to improve convenience of immigration procedures by simplifying and accelerating them. We would like to ask foreigners who wish to use the automated gates to provide their personal identification information (fingerprints and a facial portrait) in advance and register themselves as applicants in order to use the gate.
2. Registration as an Applicant to Use the Automated Gate
1. Required Items for Registration
1. Valid passport (including Re-entry Permit) and re-entry permission
2. Application form to use the automated gate
2. Where and When to Register
We will be accepting applications from November 20th at the locations stated below:
1. Tokyo Regional Immigration Bureau
Application Counter for re-entry permission (2F) 9:00-16:00 (Except Saturdays, Sundays, National Holidays and December 29th to January 3rd)
2. Narita Airport District Immigration Office
The departure inspection area at South Wing of Passenger Terminal 1: 9:00-17:00
The departure inspection area at the South Exit of Passenger Terminal 2: 9:00-17:00
3. Registration Procedures
Submit your application form with your passport and provide fingerprints of both index fingers and a facial portrait.
Then, when the official affixes a registration stamp on your passport, the registration procedure is complete. In principle, you can use the gate from that day forward.
4. Points of Concern for the Registration
1. Time Limit of Registration
You can register until the expiration date of your passport or the expiration date of your re-entry permit, whichever comes earlier.
2. Registration Restrictions
In some cases, such as when you cannot provide fingerprints, you may not be able to register.
3. Using and Providing the Registered Information
We will manage information including fingerprints and facial portraits provided at the registration as personal information set forth in laws on protection of personal informati
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:4, Insightful)
Now the U.S. will have access to fingerprints of US citizens who travel to Japan without ever having to lift a finger. I'm sure they will push for all other governments to start doing this -- where upon anyone who ever traveled outside this country will be fingerprinted by others and all of it put into some worldwide database.
I'm sure Bush is going to give his thanks to the Japanese Prime Minister one of these days.
Parent
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:4, Interesting)
Never forget that your government owns you.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:5, Insightful)
This also applies to torture and other interogation techniques like "water boarding" for captured soldiers. In the future our military personal should expect to have the same treatment that we are giving others with water boarding, etc.
Parent
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:5, Informative)
For the Visa waiver program, I also need to fill out a form every time asking whether I am a nazi, have any infectious diseases or have the intention to commit terrorist acts.
It also warns you that 1f you check 'yes' to any of those questions, you may be denied entry to the united states
Parent
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:5, Informative)
A guy I know gave a silly answer to the question 'what is the reason for your visit?', and was held up for interrogation for several hours.
Parent
Re:New Travel Destination (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually... I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal in some states. In the 1950's in some states it was not only illegal to be a Communist, it was illegal to discuss Communism or even talk to a Communist. Amazing...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Discrimination in a Different Sense (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Discrimination in a Different Sense (Score:4, Insightful)
Before you label these "refuseniks" and potentially all Koreans as "racist bigots", perhaps you should look into the modern history of Japanese occupation of Korean penninsula. There are many controversial historical issues, but I will point you to the worst alleged war crime by Japan against Koreans [wikipedia.org] (and I mean alleged in the neutral sense—like O.J. Simpson is an alleged murderer). You can look up the rest, if you are interested. But, in short, I think it'd not be an exaggeration to say that compared to the Korean people under Japanese rule during WWII, the American citizens of Japanese ancestry lived like kings and queens in their "concentration camp" during the same time.
The point is, these people have not prejudged the Japanese—there is history that just can't be buried by nothing less than the amnesia induced by several centuries and all the good feeling that'll be generated by a unified world government (either that, or a very simple apology from the current Japanese government). Calling these people, who, from either their own (my friend's grandfather (who is a Korean) lived under the Japanese rule and could describe all the forced assimilation of Koreans into Japanese culture) or experience of people they trust (like family and teachers), know how badly Koreans were treated by the Japanese, "racist bigots" ... is either a display of patent ignorance of modern history, or some truly amazing bigotry in its own right.
Well, I am not a Korean myself (I just have a friend who is overflowing with "Korean-ness", and who, despite all that, happens to be a best friend), so if you need more, you will have to find another Korean to discuss it in more detail. But I just want you to know; it's not like these people don't have a very good reason to distrust and even hate the Japanese. They have the best reason you can find in the world to hate a group of people.
P.S. One very obvious argument (the same one I made when I was first confronted with this) would be: "But that's all history, over 60, 70 years ago!". And here's my friend's answer:
"And the Japanese people living in Japan TODAY is still proud that they beat the Russians, threatened the Chinese, and oppressed the Koreans. Unlike what used to be the Nazi Germany, where there can't possibly be another NAZI party TODAY, and calling a German "Nazi" would be the gravest insult you could throw at him, in Japan, the same emperor (well, emperor of the same line) that ruled over Japan during the periods of WWII (and before) still rules over the APPARENTLY SAME JAPAN. The Japanese government continually refuses to acknowledge its war crimes against Koreans (especially the Korean women who were sexually abused, not to mention the men who were used as human shields) nor apologize for it. It's not history, not just yet. It's very much current, despite the length of time that passed."
Parent
Re:high and mighty (Score:5, Funny)
What? Why are you laughing so hard.
Parent
Re:high and mighty (Score:4, Insightful)
What is most irritating is that Japan really doesn't have reason to fear an international terrorist incident on their soil. As Terrie says, all the terrorist incidents in Japan have been done by Japanese and the amount of crime by foreigners in Japan is minuscule compared to the overall total.
This is xenophobia pure and simple and will kill whatever tourist industry Japan was trying to get with their "Yokoso Japan!" campaign. A lot of businesses will avoid Japan because of these regulations as business travellers definitely do not like being treated as criminals.
Parent
Re:high and mighty (Score:5, Informative)
This happens when you REALLY start to learn to speak Japanese and start to talk to more of the citizens. When you get a job and have to do things like look for housing or deal with banks. Then the xenophobia starts to rear its ugly head. Landlords refuse to rent to you simply because you are a foreigner. You begin to understand the racist muttering from the older folks. You notice the condescending and discriminatory depiction of non-Japanese on the TV shows. Many gaijin go home at this point
Phase 3 begins when you accept that this is the reality of Japan and find ways to work around it. You move to the more progressive areas and modify your behaviour to fit better into the society. If you can get to this stage you will have a life-long love of Japan and all the wonderful things it has (geek toys, hot springs, and food, oh God the food!) despite all the negative aspects (pollution, crowding, expense, racism).
Eventually you may still move back to your country as some things cannot be overcome. In our case it was the education of our children. There was just no way we could put our kids through the Japanese school system and the living space we had was just too small to be comfortable. Hindsight has shown this to be a very wise move especially considering the experience of our kids when they have gone back to Japan for short-term attendance at Japanese schools.
Parent
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Informative)
I live in Aomori-ken and yes, it does. I love living here, but I am very upset about these measures. Rightly or wrongly (stastically wrongly, but seeing the way some English teachers and others behave here, I'm not surprised many Japanese people see things this way) the uptick in immigration is associated with crime (though in the U.S. it's the same way). I am very unhappy that while I have been a productive citizen here I am going to be treated like a criminal when I leave to visit other countries and return.
There's a lot to love here, but the conservative party and those supporting it (including the supposed opposition party) need to go.
Parent
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Interesting)
The first time I went back to renew my spousal visa, I just brought the forms and the money. I didn't bring the family register or certificate of address or any of the ridiculous supporting documentation you need to get from all over Japan (okay, where we live now, and where she grew up). Why would I need all that stuff? We had just submitted it all 12 months before. I figured I was just showing up to say "Still here; still married; please renew my visa." But after waiting a couple hours to get to the counter, the lady was like, "where is all the information?"
I had no idea that I was required to apply for a new spousal visa. I wasn't renewing, I was reapplying!
And this just days before my visa was running out! I thought I was going to be deported!
My wife came in and worked her persuasive magic (that's why I married her--I saw no other choice!) and got them to count my little form as "starting the process" so I wouldn't be deported, and even talked them into giving me a 3-year visa, which they said they would not do.
The point of the story is that it doesn't matter how integrated you are; it doesn't matter if your most immediate family is Japanese; it doesn't matter if you are gainfully employed. The only thing that matters about you is that you are NOT JAPANESE, and therefore are not quite human in the eyes of the law.
Someone already mentioned this, but just look at the famous cases of foreigners being murdered over here. The last famous case (not far from where I live), a guy killed a female English teacher, nine police officers came to his house, and he escaped.
Barefoot.
BY RUNNING PAST THE COPS AND OUT HIS FRONT DOOR.
They still haven't found him. They won't.
That would require looking.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I take it you don't object to the police searching your house or randomly stopping you and giving you a cavity search either? That could also help in catching criminals.
There's a very large difference between giving fingerprints and having your house or rectum searched.
There are two components to gathering fingerprints: The initial fingerprinting and the "match" found at an incriminating location.
Your privacy only becomes violated by fingerprints when a crime is comitted AND it can additionally provide evidence you were NOT in said location if your status as a criminal is ever questioned.
Fingerprinting is not a slippery-slope scenario as you are making it out to be.
Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)
The difference is only one of degree, not of kind.
There are two components to gathering fingerprints: The initial fingerprinting and the "match" found at an incriminating location.
Equivalently, there are two components to searching your house: the initial search and the "match" of something in your house that the cops think is illegal, or might be indicative of illegal activity -- e.g. "drug paraphernalia," even if the only thing you ever smoke in the pipe they turn up is tobacco. The point is that, without probable cause, they shouldn't be looking in the first place.
Your privacy only becomes violated by fingerprints when a crime is comitted AND it can additionally provide evidence you were NOT in said location if your status as a criminal is ever questioned.
Your privacy is violated the minute they search without probable cause, regardless of what they're searching is your house or your fingertips. Period. What part of "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers, and effects" don't you understand?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That depends what you mean by "incriminating location". Japan currently has a more or less democratic government, similar for example to the US, so at this moment this should not be a major problem. But in many other countries what they consider a "crime" you may actually consider a right thing to do. In such a case you would not want them to have your fingerprints.
Also, they say they will share the fingerprints with other governments. Which means that next
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, as Bush and so many others have shown, that enemy always turns out to be the people that are being protected. Recursion of the "reason" given for all fascisms. The tools used to "protect" you from dark scary people are always - always! turned in full force against you. And done correctly, silence grips the mouths of all and no one dares utter the words to describe the reality in which they live, for the consequences are too deadly. The tools necessary to trigger the use of the KBR-built detention camps being built for the last few years are in place. One bomb, and Bush declares emergency powers and the troublemakers get their asses dragged to extrajudicial prisons at the sole mercy of the Unitary Executive. The Constitution teeters, the last few rights about to be declared void by his pocket judges. And the same is true in France, and the UK, and so many other places.
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