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RIAA Not Sharing Settlement Money With Artists

Posted by kdawson on Thu Feb 28, 2008 06:08 PM
from the play-nicely-now dept.
Klatoo55 writes "Various artists are considering lawsuits in order to press for their share of the estimated hundreds of millions of dollars the RIAA has obtained from settlements with services such as Bolt, KaZaA, and Napster. According to TorrentFreak's report on the potential action, there may not even be much left to pay out after monstrous legal fees are taken care of. The comments from the labels all claim that the money is on its way, and is simply taking longer due to difficulties dividing it all up."
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  • I Wonder... (Score:5, Funny)

    by glavenoid (636808) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:11PM (#22594504)
    ...how difficult it is to divide by one...
    • by Stanistani (808333) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:13PM (#22594532) Homepage Journal
      One is the loneliest number...
      • by KublaiKhan (522918) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:15PM (#22594556) Homepage Journal
        Sir, you've violated the copyright of Three Dog Night with your dissemination of their song "One is the Loneliest Number".

        We're here to take your first born to our Vinyl Mines.
        • Harry Nilsson wrote "One", Three Dog Night merely covered it... WITHOUT ASKING!!!
          • by moderatorrater (1095745) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:44PM (#22594874)
            But it was done from within the music industry, so it was fair use. It's only stealing if someone without enough money for lawyers does it.
          • Re:I Wonder... (Score:5, Informative)

            by invader_vim (1243902) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:00PM (#22595030)

            You don't have to ask to cover a song. You just have to let the relevant administrative body (APRA in Australia, I believe it falls to ASCAP et al. in America) know about any recording or performance you have done of it, so that the artist will be recompensed for your use of the song.

            • Excellent. I didn't illegally download music, I merely let my computer perform a very similar cover version.
            • Re:I Wonder... (Score:5, Informative)

              by hedwards (940851) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:14PM (#22595150)
              That only applies to live music. ASCAP is responsible for licensing musical performances. If I want to perform music that ASCAP licenses, I pay them a fee and get to use the work.

              A typical bar featuring music will typically pay ASCAP a recurring fee to cover the songs in that catalog and be allowed to perform any of them. You don't technically have to pay ASCAP a fee just because you have music, but you're in for a world of hurt if you get caught with an unlicensed performance of a covered work.

              The big dirty secret here is that ASCAP doesn't tell anybody how it is that they distribute the license money. It's incredibly hard to know if relatively unknown artists are being compensated fairly.

              "Live" performances are radio, TV, phone systems, intercoms and any other venue where the main use of the music is listening to rather than a copy of. Frequently places will just buy a license through a third party which pays the fees as well as provides the music itself to simplify the whole process. Muzak is one of the more common outfits that provides the service.
      • Re:I Wonder too... (Score:5, Informative)

        by MacWiz (665750) <wizard AT azoz DOT com> on Friday February 29 2008, @12:30AM (#22597340) Homepage Journal
        The songwriter/publisher hold the copyrights to words and music. Harry Fox and ASCAP pay the publishers, who are supposed to split it 50/50 with the songwriter.

        The record label usually owns the sound recording copyright, although the artist can ask for it back after 35 years. This is the copyright which people are being sued for allegedly infringing upon.

        If the artist did not write their own songs, they don't own any copyrights. The artists are paid according to the terms of their contracts. Unless there's a clause that deals specifically with this issue, the record label is under no legal obligation to give the artists a cut from the lawsuits.

        Although this is more proof (as if we really needed it) that the RIAA lies every time it repeats the "it's all about the artists" mantra, I think that they are probably immune to being sued for it, except perhaps for the times they did it in a Senate or House subcommittee hearing or in court, and then only if they were under oath.
  • by Adradis (1160201) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:11PM (#22594508)

    The comments from the labels all claim that the money is on its way, and is simply taking longer due to difficulties dividing it all up.
    Of course it's coming. We've just got to process it with all our high expense people so that you, the artist, receive the mere pennies you deserve!
  • T'was Ever Thus (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jeremiah Cornelius (137) * on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:12PM (#22594514) Homepage Journal
    With these crooks.
    • Re:T'was Ever Thus (Score:4, Interesting)

      by siddesu (698447) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:36PM (#22594800)
      Well, *. I. Ass. of wherever are obviously crooks. That said, however, I don't feel particularly broken that their members are getting screwed by their own representative. Most of the members of the various labels under the hat of IFPI & Co. are there for one reason -- to pool lobbying resources so that they can bribe politicians more effectively into extending the (already extravagant) copyright laws.

      This is as an attempt to screw me, the consumer, twice -- first, by raising the prices (which I accept while the copyright lasts, as long as the time limits are reasonable, and they stopped being so long time ago), and second by removing competition, usually by directly abusing legal system.

      So, I am amused rather than heart-broken. Suck it, people, and before you call on lawyers to extortion for you, don't be surprised if you get extorted in turn.
      • by s.bots (1099921) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:45PM (#22594884)

        That said, however, I don't feel particularly broken that their members are getting screwed by their own representative
        It's not the members that are getting screwed in this case though, it is the artists. They entered into contracts with the record companies most likely at a time when you needed the financial help of the record company to get them off the ground, when home recording equipment was not nearly as cheap or as ubiquitous as it is now.
              • Re:T'was Ever Thus (Score:5, Insightful)

                by budgenator (254554) on Thursday February 28 2008, @08:03PM (#22595546) Journal
                The RIAA represents the record companies and it function is to spend as much money as fast as it can and any left over goes back to their clients the record company. The record company represents the artists and it's function is to spend as much money as fast as it can and any left over goes to their clients the artists. Wash rinse repeat, lawyers that can't get hired into the record companies settle for probate law. Do you know what the difference between a vampire and a probate lawyer is? The vampire quits sucking your blood when your dead!
  • by Finallyjoined!!! (1158431) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:13PM (#22594530)
    The recent RIAA extortion has never been about the artists, merely keeping the "coke & whores" budget healthy.

    • by Joce640k (829181) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:31PM (#22594740) Homepage
      The hefty legal fees are staying in the family so it's all good.

      Well....not so good if you're an artist, but any artist who still hasn't figured out what the RIAA is all about probably deserves it.

      The only CDs I've paid for in the last couple of years were from places like CDBaby who state exactly how much the artist will receive for each CD sold. Worse, I've bought albums I didn't really like from CDBaby because that artist has made other albums which I did like. The reason was I wanted the artist to have some money but the RIAA had control of the album I liked.

      Pissing off your paying customers? Not a good business model.

      The main reason I share music these days is just to annoy the RIAA.

      • Agree 100% (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Finallyjoined!!! (1158431) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:38PM (#22595368)
        I have a collection of, probably, 1200 CD's. 95% bought from music shops, some from boot-sales, flea-markets etc. NONE, & I repeat none are newer that 2004. You see I stopped buying!. {see the full stop?} after the record companies' agents started calling their customers "criminals".

        I still have a considerably large vinyl collection, + a shed-load of commercial (not copied) tapes (mostly dupes of the vinyl - for playing in the car) even though I now don't have a functioning record player.

        I looked this evening & for e.g. I have Bat out of Hell on vinyl, tape & CD - bloody three times!!

        But if I fire up a p2p client - I'm a criminal.
        WTF?

        Copyright infringement is not "illegal".
  • by Alexx K (1167919) <alexkenny08@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:14PM (#22594542)
    The RIAA does not exist to serve the artists. It's mission now is to suck all the money it can out of a dying business model.
  • by sdkramer (411640) <seth@@@sethkramer...com> on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:14PM (#22594546) Homepage
    Give me a moment to recover.
  • makes sense (Score:5, Funny)

    by ILuvRamen (1026668) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:16PM (#22594574)
    Well why should they share the money when a good portion of it was gotten from people that didn't even download music from a copyrighted artist? You don't give money to artists if there was no damage. Logically what should be done is the RIAA should go to hell.
  • by Helios1182 (629010) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:17PM (#22594592)
    They have all the data on how many times each song was infringed, so I'm sure this ought to be easy.
  • Oh come on now (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:18PM (#22594598)
    I'm no fan of RIAA, but the RIAA lawsuits aren't about recouping money for the artists. That would be a ludicrous business model (one where you let people steal your product and then sue them to recover you loses on a routine basis). The RIAA lawsuits are about raising the risk/reward ratio to make people decide not to steal music. It is about punishing bad behavior, not recouping lost royalties. Even if, in the end, RIAA burns every dollar it "recoups" on ongoing legal fees, that's fine and acceptable. The point is to hurt the downloaders, not help the artists WITH THE LEGAL JUDGMENTS. They serve to help the artists by stopping the illegal downloading.
    • Re:Oh come on now (Score:5, Insightful)

      by QuantumG (50515) <qg@biodome.org> on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:39PM (#22594832) Homepage Journal
      And that's why other countries don't have punitive damages. Somehow civil matters got all mixed up in the USA. I guess greed does that.
      • Re:Oh come on now (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jgarra23 (1109651) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:25PM (#22595252)
        Who modded parent insightful?

        And that's why other countries don't have punitive damages. Somehow civil matters got all mixed up in the USA. I guess
        greed does that.


        That is not why. Most countries that do not have punitive damage allowances in their laws are usually run by tyrants anyways. The idea of of punitive damages is to punish an entity enough so they think twice before they do it again, it's a civil punishment for a civil case where a criminal punishment should be enacted but cannot be for whatever reason.

        You know what happens when tort reform runs rampant and punitive damages are out the window? Companies like Exxon can get away with murder by polluting an entire coastline and having only to pay 2 weeks worth of profit as a fine. This is not greed, this is not tort reform, this is justice gone wrong. Thanks to the tort reform in America Exxon has a punishment that does virtually nothing to a company which committed a criminal act. The amount they have to pay is a drop in the bucket compared to how much the citizens of Alaska have paid with their well-being. So perhaps it is the lack of a real punitive damage which is greedy!

        Now I see what you mean when for instance, people who KNEW cigarettes would kill them continue to smoke and now tobacco companies are having to pay out the a** because of some jerk who took a KNOWN risk and then whined about it later but this is a law that needs refining, not a blanket statement that all punitive damages are greedy.
        • Re:Oh come on now (Score:4, Insightful)

          by zotz (3951) on Thursday February 28 2008, @08:00PM (#22595526) Homepage Journal
          "That is not why. Most countries that do not have punitive damage allowances in their laws are usually run by tyrants anyways. The idea of of punitive damages is to punish an entity enough so they think twice before they do it again, it's a civil punishment for a civil case where a criminal punishment should be enacted but cannot be for whatever reason."

          Well, if that is the case, the punitive part of the award should not go to the plaintiff.

          all the best,

          drew
    • Re:Oh come on now (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Solandri (704621) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:17PM (#22595172)

      I'm no fan of RIAA, but the RIAA lawsuits aren't about recouping money for the artists. That would be a ludicrous business model (one where you let people steal your product and then sue them to recover you loses on a routine basis). The RIAA lawsuits are about raising the risk/reward ratio to make people decide not to steal music.
      If you're correct and the copyright infringement penalties are meant to be punitive instead of compensatory, then they are enormously disproportionate. Punitive damages are meant to simply discourage the defendant (and others) from engaging in that behavior, not consign them to a bankruptcy. Being able to file a lawsuit for several dozen times a person's net worth isn't punitive, it's overkill. Would our legal system be considered sane if the potential punitive damages for Microsoft's monopoly case had been $2 trillion?

      The problem is the RIAA wants and is getting their cake and eating it too. They want your music purchase to be treated as a product with no liabilities of a license (like discounted upgrades), but they want to restrict what you do with your purchase like a license. They want copyright infringement and its punishments to be considered a crime, but they want the standard of guilt used in civil cases. They want fines and settlements to be thought of as compensatory ("$billions in lost sales justify what we do"), but bring up the idea of sharing those compensatory awards with artists and suddenly it's punitive. Pick one, or the other. Don't flip flop whenever it's convenient to do so.

  • by ween14 (827520) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:18PM (#22594600)
    When the RIAA discovered that they had some money left over after paying the lawyers, they needed some time. They have their best accountants working on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting [wikipedia.org].

    Once they are done with the proper accounting procedures, they will make sure to give the token penny or two to the "poor, starving artists".
  • share? why? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by themushroom (197365) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:19PM (#22594616) Homepage
    At what point did the RIAA claim that they were going through all these lawsuits on behalf of the artists? Uh... okay... those were the words in the broadside. Hmm.

    Let's try again. At what point did they claim they were doing this to pay the arts for "lost profits"? There, that's it.

    • Re:share? why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MightyMartian (840721) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:37PM (#22594814) Journal
      I find this all incredibly amusing. Here you have these pricks like Gene Simmons and Metallica out there fighting the good fight for the record companies, and now, suddenly, they all wake up and realize "Waitta minute! Those fuckers in the boardrooms are still crooks!"

      Here's a bit of a friendly nod to all those artists who were retarded enough to believe the record industry was somehow looking out for them:

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
  • by Channard (693317) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:22PM (#22594652) Journal
    .. it means Metallica aren't getting a share. I bet they'e kicking themselves now..
  • Strategy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dunezone (899268) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:26PM (#22594692) Journal
    I dont quite understand the strategy of the RIAA, is this even a profitable strategy. You first need to collect evidence, then you need to file the lawsuit, and finally the defendant has to pay, that is if he or she is found in guilt. So now you to pay for the collection of evidence, then the lawyers, and then you have to hope the defendant has money to pay you to recoup the loss.

    So I guess they have internal lawyers but as the cases grow in numbers you need to hire out law firms which is not cheap. I don't know who they pay to collect the evidence, or to tell if someone is infringing but they have to monitor the P2P networks and I guess the torrents.

    So by the end of the case lets say the defendant is given a infringement cost of $10,000 or something. They still have to pay it up.

    What person in their right mind thought this was a good plan. Theres so many parties to deal with, so much time that needs to paid for. In the end all I see happening is a loss plus tarnishing the name of the RIAA. Hell, if the defendant wins then the RIAA might have to pay them. This seems like a strategy proposed from old-school business into a new-business world.
    • Re:Strategy (Score:4, Insightful)

      by darkhitman (939662) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:31PM (#22594738)
      It's not about profit (all of which likely just goes straight to the lawyers). It's about instilling fear into the consumer base, in the irrational hopes of scaring them out of downloading music.
  • Coming? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Damocles the Elder (1133333) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:35PM (#22594776)
    Of course it's coming, we just have to win the lawsuits first.

    Seriously, with all of the john-due suing that's apparently failed hard enough that the RIAA ends up paying attorney's fees [wired.com], I'd be surprised if there's anything left to divvy up.
    Of course, it goes without saying that the RIAA's board of directors get their yachts first, too. Can't even think about dividing up the money until those get paid off.
  • by Cryophallion (1129715) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:35PM (#22594780)
    A few things:
    1. I remember reading somewhere that the money all went back into more lawsuits, so I don't think that is boding well for money going to anyone who thinks they actually "earned" it
    2. Do the artists get the "real" damages (i.e., paid for the one or two songs mediasentry supposedly caught them downloading), or the higher damages? As I don't think the artist owns the copyright in this case, how much are they really entitled to?
    3. For the settlement letters, is there again a set amount per song that they listed as being due the artist? Or is it again only the royalties they would get from selling one song on a cd or itunes for example? If so, please expect about $.05 per settlement - not what they want (or think they deserve, but as a recent article on slashdot pointed out, the RIAA wants to reduced royalties while they are at it).

    If I was the artist, I wouldn't go buying a car with the expectation that the check was in the mail... not even a matchbox car.
  • Why would they? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Monoman (8745) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:36PM (#22594798) Homepage
    I believe it works this way. The record companies pay artists royalties and they pay the RIAA as well. I don't think the artists pay the RIAA. It seems to me that IF the RIAA is going to pay anyone it is going to be the record companies. If that happens will the record companies kick any money back to the artists? I doubt it.
    • Musicians rarely get paid royalties. On paper they do, but only after deducting all the costs of production, manufacturing, distribution, accounting, you name it. Only a few highly visible musicians like Madonna ever see any actual money from record sales. That's why the recording industry's "protecting the artists" mantra is just smoke. Musicians make a living by performing. Records give them exposure, which translates to better gigs with higher ticket prices.

      Record companies benefit when you buy.
      Musicians benefit when you listen.
  • RIAA and PR (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LithiumX (717017) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:47PM (#22594902)
    I wonder how hard it would be to support a decentralized publicity campaign to directly tie these lawsuits, via the RIAA, to the agencies and artists the RIAA supports?

    At present, it's largely a free lunch for the record companies - who have a vicious attack dog that uses tactics that shouldn't be legal. The bad PR doesn't do a very good job of reflecting back on them.

    If the masses begin to associate these lawsuits with the music they're buying, that's when the pressure would mount.
  • by Venik (915777) on Thursday February 28 2008, @06:47PM (#22594908)
    Imagine all the problems RIAA's gonna have dividing the profits once it gets the $1.65 trillion from Allofmp3.com! They'll need to rent dump trucks just to deliver checks to the artists.
  • by erroneus (253617) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:10PM (#22595122) Homepage
    ...the trick is to get that point across to the "artists in support of the RIAA"
  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Thursday February 28 2008, @08:31PM (#22595760)
    I'm shocked, shocked to find out that the RIAA is stiffing the artists on piracy settlements, especially after the labels stiffed them on their original contracts.
  • In a legal war... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zobier (585066) <zobier.zobier@net> on Thursday February 28 2008, @08:48PM (#22595888)
    Only the lawyers win.
    • by melikamp (631205) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:38PM (#22595378) Homepage Journal

      Talking about it all the time just helps you with your cognitive dissonance and makes it okay that you steal music.

      When will this foolish drivel have run its course?

      You can bring the day closer by defining what you mean by "stealing music". No, please do not assume that we are smart. No one is smart enough to figure out a phrase that is intentionally vague and insulting at the same time.

      Do we steal music when we make a copy? When we make the first copy? An unauthorized copy? An illegal copy?

      Do we "steal" music when we perform it without proper authorization?

      Do we "steal" it every time we listen to an illegally made recording? Every time we listen to a recording without compensating someone? And if so, who are we supposed to be compensating?

      Are we "stealing" it when we make a copy for a friend who would never find about the artist, if not for us?

      Are we "stealing" when we remove DRM? When we digitize? When we shift formats?

      Are we "stealing music" when we replace our stolen CD collection by getting it off the Pirate Bay (doesn't cost fat cats a dime)? When we legally download it from a different country? When we obtain a copy of something that is no longer published? When the artist is dead? How about when the artist says that it is OK, even though he does not own the rights? Is it still "stealing"?

      You see, we just don't seem to have a good grasp of the meaning of the term you insist on using.

      If you want to say "stealing music" on Slashdot, out of all places, even though it makes no legal (or any other kind of) sense, why won't you bloody define it for us? Or may be just say "infringe the copyright" instead, if that is all you mean to say?

    • by jamstar7 (694492) on Thursday February 28 2008, @07:59PM (#22595516)

      Enough of this phony, pseudo-ideological nonsense. Most of you care nothing about how much the RIAA pays artists. Talking about it all the time just helps you with your cognitive dissonance and makes it okay that you steal music.

      When will this foolish drivel have run its course?

      obligatory Slashdot disclaimer: I'm a musician who has had more than my share of people around the world asking me for free cd's and telling me they want to copy my music for their friends.

      Gene Simmons, is that you???????????????

      • by tompaulco (629533) on Thursday February 28 2008, @09:30PM (#22596238) Homepage Journal
        Why are artists held to such a level, that they should be willing to play for free so long as someone enjoys their music? Anyone familiar with history knows that the most famous artworks were commissioned by aristocracy and wealthy individuals. Why in the 21st century should we suddenly expect art to be free?