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America's Robot Army

Posted by Zonk on Sun Mar 16, 2008 07:07 AM
from the the-few-the-proud-the-computational dept.
Popular Mechanics explores the increasing level of reliance the US military has when it comes to robotic assistance. In the last few years, robot drones have reached an all-new level of sophistication, with several models already deployed in the field. Now, the next generation of robot helpers is nearing the end of its test phase. PM offers up a preview of what we could expect to see in the field within the next five years. "The MULE (Multifunction Utility/Logistics and Equipment) is roughly the size of a Humvee, but it has a trick worthy of monster truck rallies. Each of its six wheels is mounted on an articulated leg, allowing the robot to clamber up obstacles that other cars would simply bump against ... Barely a year old, the prototype is a product of the Army's Unmanned Ground Vehicle program, which began in 2001. It has yet to fire a single bullet or missile, or even be fitted with a weapon. Here at the test track it's loaded down with rucksacks and boxes, two squads' worth of equipment."
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[+] Hardware: Killer Military Robot Arms Race Underway? 332 comments
coondoggie writes to tell us NetworkWorld is reporting that one researcher seems to think that a military robot arms race may be imminent between both governments and terrorists. "We are beginning to see the first steps towards an international robot arms race and it may not be long before robots become a standard terrorist weapon to replace the suicide bomber, according to professor Noel Sharkey, from the Royal United Services Institute Department of Computer Science. [...] Currently there is always a human in the loop to decide on the use of lethal force. However, this is set to change with the US giving priority to autonomous weapons - robots that will decide on where, when and who to kill, according to the professor."
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  • More tanks (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CRCulver (715279) <crculver@christopherculver.com> on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:12AM (#22764588) Homepage

    "The MULE (Multifunction Utility/Logistics and Equipment) is roughly the size of a Humvee, but it has a trick worthy of monster truck rallies. Each of its six wheels is mounted on an articulated leg, allowing the robot to clamber up obstacles that other cars would simply bump against.

    Sounds like a tank. And haven't retired generals criticized the DoD in the last couple of decades for developing the tank technology we wished that we had in World War II instead of concentrating on anti-guerilla strategy?

    • Re:More tanks (Score:5, Insightful)

      by peragrin (659227) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:17AM (#22764608)
      anti-guerilla strategy? that's easy don't be an ass, and don't invade other countries on false intel, with the misguided hope that they will think you are saviors just because you deposed their idiot leader.

      I highly doubt if that will happen though.

      To truly fight guerilla you must fight them like you fight pirates. You take away the economic/political incentive for it to begin with.
      • by teneighty (671401) on Sunday March 16 2008, @09:22AM (#22765118)

        To truly fight guerilla you must fight them like you fight pirates.

        ... with Ninjas?

      • The USA has control of the largest and second largest oil reserves in the world now.

         
        • Re:More tanks (Score:5, Insightful)

          by MrNaz (730548) on Sunday March 16 2008, @08:10AM (#22764806) Homepage
          Many long time Slashdot readers remember the days when militant rednecks didn't come here, and they were able to comment on what an intelligent foreign policy would look like without having to put up with the "let's go shoot us some bad guys!" clowns. Sadly, those days are gone, as you have just demonstrated.
            • Bloody hell, that's the third time someone's made a nasty crack about me being Muslim in as many days. And according to Fox News, I'm the one supposedly from an intolerant belligerent religion. Quite telling, really.
              • you replied to an AC, intelligent people don't reply to the AC's as 99% of them aren't worth even talking to.

                As for your other comments, if you read my post I don't agree with the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan wasn't smart but might be justifiable.

                Also invading germany even though they didn't have anything to do with the bombing of Pearl harbor was a decent decision even though it opened us up to a war on two fronts. pearl Harbor was totally done by japan and Japan alone.

                So yes there are times. but those
            • At risk of sounding like this is some kind of low-ID pissing contest, I don't ever remember Slashdot being apolitical, and I was a reader for years before I became a subscriber. Slashdot, to me, was (and to a certain extent still is) a great place for very wide ranging discussions with a group heavily biased toward the favourable side of the IQ bell curve. Even after the dilution of the last few years, Slashdot is still a place I can count on reading interesting and insightful opinions from a broad cross-se
    • Sounds really like a tank with no one to get injured in it.

      It's pretty much a "more of it"-approach. They want to solve all the problems with more technology. The rational behind it is the wish to reduce one's own side's casualties as far as possible. Although it is a legitimate and very sane goal, the strategy employed, air strikes and cruise missiles, causes a lot of civilian casualties.
      An thus, on the long run, this approach prepares the ground for a guerrilla force that has a footing in the country

      • Re:More tanks (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Octorian (14086) on Sunday March 16 2008, @08:13AM (#22764818) Homepage
        > Sounds really like a tank with no one to get injured in it.
        You really have no clue what a tank is? Or the difference between a tank and a truck? This is *not* a tank. It is a utility vehicle! The variant currently being shown is design to haul crap around so soldiers don't need to. Of course it does have armed variants that are designed to shoot weapons, keeping soldiers from harm. But, still, it is not heavy armor.

        And w.r.t. air strikes, do you realize what the alternative is to our current approach of guided weapons? Yes, carpet bombing. Creates a lot more civilian casualties. Instead of killing civilians who the bad guys are hiding next to, they'll also kill the civilians in the buildings down the street.
        • Oh, I can. I just kept the label my parent-poster gave it. AFV (or reconnaissance AFV) would probably the best manned correspondence, but I'm not going to argue about it.You are right, but please see that it was not my point.

          > And w.r.t. air strikes, do you realize what the alternative is to our current approach of guided weapons? Yes, carpet bombing.

          So, cruise missiles and carpet bombing are the only alternatives you can see? I think, that's what I meant with not getting the problem right. In some

          • Sure, lets not think outside the box. But here is a better alternative to both T2-like tanks and carpet bombing -- not creating militants in the first place. I'd wager 95% of the militants in Iraq for example were *created* when the US went in, destroyed the infrastructure, and all starved the population via food and medicine sanctions (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2000/mar/04/weekend7.weekend9)
            • So would you become a militant in this scenario?

              I will offer that it really takes an external leadership to recruit and organize militants during times of artificial hardship, typically one with their own agenda...
        • Sounds more like mobile pork, bleed the taxpayer dry with endless upgrades and suicide runs. There just ain't no corporate profits in training modern professional soldiers. Robots, perfect, less soldiers and more multi-million dollar bits of equipment with limited warranties.

          Of course when it comes to providing assistance in the event of natural disasters, the lack of trained personal will be missed, but it can always be contracted out, the loss of life of due to profits ahead of rapid response, well, tha

      • the strategy employed, air strikes and cruise missiles, causes a lot of civilian casualties.
        It does? are you sure I think you are confusing a BGM-109 Tomahawk [wikipedia.org] or a AGM-84H/K Harpoon [wikipedia.org] with a AGM-114 Hellfire [wikipedia.org]. The Hellfire is a semi-active homing anti-tank weapon not a cruise missile that is primarily air-launched from army helicopters or occasionaly fron a MQ-1 Predator [wikipedia.org].

        If you want to know how they are really used read Michael Yon's Guitar Heroes [michaelyon-online.com] posting.
    • Sounds like a tank. And haven't retired generals criticized the DoD in the last couple of decades for developing the tank technology we wished that we had in World War II instead of concentrating on anti-guerilla strategy?

      To be fair Iran has tanks... Whoops did I say Iran... I meant "possible future liberation targets" have tanks.

      But in all seriousness, if the thing has anti-tank missiles on it, its not meant for anti-guerrilla warfare. There are a handful of countries that its intended for. Mostly the ones
    • And haven't retired generals criticized the DoD in the last couple of decades for developing the tank technology we wished that we had in World War II instead of concentrating on anti-guerilla strategy?
      And in the next conflict, they could just as easily be criticized for assuming all future conflicts would be insurgencies.
    • Sounds more like a farm implement [wikipedia.org] to me.
    • "The MULE (Multifunction Utility/Logistics and Equipment) is roughly the size of a Humvee, but it has a trick worthy of monster truck rallies. Each of its six wheels is mounted on an articulated leg, allowing the robot to clamber up obstacles that other cars would simply bump against.

      Sounds like a tank. And haven't retired generals criticized the DoD in the last couple of decades for developing the tank technology we wished that we had in World War II instead of concentrating on anti-guerilla strategy?

      Several things to note here. First, the MULE is much more mobile than a tank in an urban environment (the bit about the "articulated legs"). It's much smaller than a tank. For example, it probably weighs about a tenth (when fully loaded) of a main battle tank (which weighs around 40-50 tons), maybe less. It uses wheels rather than treads. And it's not manned. And one of the uses is to carry cargo for a couple of infantry squads. Doesn't sound like a tank to me.

    • Doesn't sound like a tank as long as it has wheels.
  • I think we should spend the resources on space exploration and educating the young folks for those technical jobs instead of sending those kids over to die or get maimed for reasons that I don't find very compelling - (except for Afghanistan).

    And in the meantime, to fight our wars, I think we should send the folks who would benefit from the wars and the arm chair generals who are really quick to send other people's kids over to fight while justifying their haste with the attitude of "well they volunteered

    • You know normally I don't comment on military matters (even though I am a Marine), but for you I'll make an exception...

      Here is a reason I (and most people) always find interesting... people who want to kill you because they don't like you. People who want to kill you because your way of life is simply intolerable to them (even though you are over half a planet away). I'm not saying the war is noble or anything like that, because its not. However, I would rather take the fight to the enemy, rather tha
        • If they don't like what we are doing, in country x all they have to do is crank the price of Oil higher. Eventually we won't be able to afford the war any more

          Um you are away that's real reason we invaded Iraq right? To remake an oil rich country that is in our pocket. Of course it's not going so well, but that's not surprising given the executive's track record. [sprynet.com] I don't think the idea of having close ties to an oil rich country is a bad idea, but I think we when about it completely backwards. We were in
          • We were in the right when we bailed Kuwait out in Desert Storm, we dropped the ball when we didn't grow that into a lasting friendship between the US and Kuwait.

            Hmmm, if I recall correctly, Desert Storm occured in 1991, so the time to "grow that into a lasting friendship" would have been from 1992 onward? Whose fault would that be, exactly?

            A rich and powerful voice in the Middle East that had positive things to say about the US could have avoided this entire mess

            By that "entire mess" I assume you mean

  • Robots? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Porchroof (726270) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:20AM (#22764626) Homepage
    I hope none of these so-called robots are simply radio-controlled devices. Anything under human control does not rate being called a robot. (When have you ever heard of a radio-controlled model airplane being called a robot?)
    • Re:Robots? (Score:4, Informative)

      by VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:35AM (#22764676)
      You might try telling that to NASA [nasa.gov].
    • I don't know many details about these robots, even though I walk by one of the units described in the article every couple of days. Some of these machines are robots, and are able to operate autonomously with some simple instructions -- get from here to there and avoid obstacles, maybe a couple of other simple functions. Sometimes you can watch what the thing is doing, or update its instructions while it is already running a program. In some instances it makes sense to have an operator drive it like a video
    • I dunno, I've heard of people having more trouble with fully automated systems in the past...

      Lowtax - But... I don't understand how that is possible. I didn't program him to do that, I programmed him to help the homeless and push the homeless into their boxes / houses and shove the space station away from the Terrible Space Secret.

      Lowtax - That's odd, the robot left! I can't find where he went.

      Corn_Boy - be very careful, he is scary, does he have an off button?

      Lowtax - No, I hard encoded the transistor giga

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I hope none of these so-called robots are simply radio-controlled devices.
      Autonomous-vs-not-autonomous is a nonsense argument since neither extreme is practical. There will always be a level of human control (at minimum, to specify the commander's intent) and a level of autonomous control (at minimum, coordinated moving of wheels or legs to move as directed). In between is where all practical applications lie.
  • Irony of ironies (Score:3, Interesting)

    by VennData (1217856) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:26AM (#22764636)
    The thing designed to save US lives looks like a casket.
  • Thinking in "James Bond" film mode for a moment, what happens IF some enemy lets off an EM pulse, what happens to your (over) reliance on technology?
    • by NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:48AM (#22764722) Homepage
      Bah, I'm sure that all our cool toys are totally invulnerable to EM weapons. They're probably completely unhackable and could never be hijacked in any way to be used against US troops or innocent bystanders.
      • "They're probably completely unhackable and could never be hijacked in any way to be used against US troops or innocent bystanders."

        This is has been the case since the first primate picked up a rock to bash in his neighbors head. It will likely be the case until the last primate is dead and gone. I would guess that it is harder to hijack a radio controlled device than it is to hijack a knife or gun.
    • Thinking in "James Bond" film mode for a moment, what happens IF some enemy lets off an EM pulse, what happens to your (over) reliance on technology?

      I remember reading something online about the specs being requested by the military on one of these UAV aircraft before. One of the criteria being investigated is how well its stands up to an EMP attack or something natural like a lightning strike. The more worrying one was the spec requesting how well it stood up to a nuclear attack.

      In that regard, the militar
    • Regarding your scenario.... *which* side was it again with an over reliance on technology?

      However in response to your post, many (not all) military vehicles are hardened to some degree to EMP.

      Also, at Paxtuxent River MD the capacitors that are used to generate an EMP (used to test Navy aircraft in this regard) are the size of a semi trailer. This is just the capacitors (i have laid eyes on them) - and the generated EMP is tiny.

      A feasable EMP generator is known as an atomic bomb - but use one of those again
      • They could be more tightly focused, giving extra range for the same power. It's not unreasonable to think that EMPs could be used to shoot down planes one degree of airspace at a time.
  • by Digestromath (1190577) on Sunday March 16 2008, @07:46AM (#22764716)
    Millions of dollars in developing advanced robotic military hardware. Individual unit prices no doubt in the 6 or 7 figure range. High training costs for operating personnel, maintenance, some sort of expensive high tech ammunition and long tech support calls.

    All of it to be ultimately undone by a hundred dollars worth of high explosive, some household shrapnel and a triggering device operated by a guy living a cave who MAY have spent a total of three weeks at the local militant training camp.

    We are living in the age of guerilla warfare. It's no longer about the size of your Deathstar. Its about how many plucky farm kids you can convince to join the cause.

    I guess there new moto could be "Army of 00000001"

    • The problem with your 'low tech' solution (getting more people into the army) is that its quite possibly MORE exspensive than robots. It costs a quarter of a million dollars to train up a skilled infantry man, and even more to train up other specialists. Equipment costs are exactly cheap either, as that whole body armor fiasco showed. The political cost of having MORE soldiers (which in all likelyhood means more deaths), is hell to pay as well. There is no doubt that going so robot heavy that you can't figh
    • It may be destroyed by some (relatively) cheap explosive, but lives are saved because nobody was in it.
      So I guess it's worth the money.
    • by Xest (935314) on Sunday March 16 2008, @11:01AM (#22765624)
      I agree with your sentiment but I think the benefits of high tech. weaponry are often overshadowed by the typical scenario you mention whereby something like a multi-million dollar vehicle is taken out by a cheaply made IED.

      When we hear news reports of raids on insurgent strongholds by our forces you often hear about how 10s, 100s were killed compared to maybe 2 or 3 allied soldiers. It's the very fact we have high tech. weaponry that allows this, be it simple things such as night vision to full on portable video link ups with drones above the battlefield - the fact is high tech. weaponry is saving the lives of our soldiers.

      Similarly, I understand that an expensive roboting land vehicle like this could be blown apart but if it can traverse more difficult terrain than your average hummer can then surely that allows us to transport things off standard roadways and across tougher terrain hence avoiding the sides of the road where IEDs are often hidden? Surely the best defense against a trap is to be able to not walk into it in the first place?

      There's a lot to be said for the point you make - that we mustn't start using technology in warzones for the sake of it. Used well however it can and already is making our forces a lot better off than they ever have been previously. Whilst 4,000 odd US soldiers may have died in Iraq to insurgents, that figure is dwarfed by the number of insurgents that have died to high tech. weaponry in US hands.

      One final point is that Iraq and Afghanistan are fairly different in terms of weaponry and tactics used, the typical IED made by a taliban tribesman living in the mountains isn't going to do an awful lot to an MBT, but as soon as you go to Iraq where you have insurgents potentially armed by the Iranians using charges shaped specifically to penetrate tank armour it's a different story. The insurgents the US is dealing with in Iraq aren't the same insurgents you describe in your post (i.e. next to no training and only using cheap weaponry) that are more commonly found in Afghanistan. Many insurgents in Iraq have been given vast amounts of training and are aquiring some pretty expensive weaponry themselves. The problem is now that some of the tactics in Iraq are spilling over into Afghanistan.

      Technology does matter in the warzone when it comes to saving soldiers lives, sure a multi-million dollar MULE may get blown to pieces, but I'd rather see that than a patrol of actual humans suffer the same fate.
  • What are the chances (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XNormal (8617) <xnormal@gmail.com> on Sunday March 16 2008, @08:16AM (#22764840) Homepage
    What are the chances that someone working on this project played M.U.L.E. [wikipedia.org] in the 80s?

    Enjoy the music of the game here [youtube.com]. Ah, nostalgia...
  • But what happens when one of these things goes off the reservation and kills innocents? Or a UAV collides with an airliner. Or suppose some clever hacker figures out how to take control of our drones and uses them to bomb us. Is that an act of war even though it was our weapon system?

    There's a real danger in relying too much on gadget war fighting devices, even one as simple as a pack mule. It starts out as a luxury and pretty soon no squad can't operate without one. You give them capacity, they'll f

  • Once again, the Simpsons has an applicable quote:

    Commandant: The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots. Thank you.
  • Are Unmanned Fighters Ready for Combat?

    Yes sir. Since the 40's [wikipedia.org]
    In America's army, the old is new again ! The tech to make drones has been available since more than half a century, it just took that long for US officials to realize that it could be a good idea.
    Wake me up when they plan deploying autonomous vehicles. Yes, we have the tech [wikipedia.org] for these also.

  • ...We've had this technology since the early-80's!

    http://atarimule.neotechgaming.com/ [neotechgaming.com]

    For more details:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E [wikipedia.org].
    • Word.

      I was a huge fan of the C64 version, and honestly, I think that better computer games are very rare - MULE was just brilliant, and far, far ahead of its time.
    • with separate electric motors for each wheel then you must have a way to synchronize all the motors to run at the same speed, plus coordination for forward, reverse, neutral, and for steering there needs to be some limited slip to compensate for the inside rear wheel turning slower than the outside real wheel so you do not get that "wheel hopping" effect like you do with full posi-trac rear differentials.
      - i would be willing to bet the electronic that would go in to a system would be plenty complicated, n
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        with separate electric motors for each wheel then you must have a way to synchronize all the motors to run at the same speed... i would be willing to bet the electronic that would go in to a system would be plenty complicated, not impossible - but not a brainless task either...

        Code for that is in most of the better vehicle traction and stability control systems right now. Ordinary cars now have two axes of rate gyro, steering wheel sensors, wheel encoders, and computer-controlled individual wheel brak