Adults Too Quick to Dismiss Educational Gaming?

netbuzz writes "A new survey finds that more than half of K-12 students believe that educational video games in school would help them learn (no surprise), although only 15% of teachers and 19% of parents agree. Adults might not want to scoff, however, because 11% of teachers are already using video games in class and they report great results. 'Only 3% of elementary school students say they do not play video games of any kind. Students surveyed say learning via video games would help them better understand difficult concepts, become more engaged in the subject matter and practice skills. There's no mention of the games being fun, but that goes without saying.'"

will someone please

[OrochimaruVoldemort (1248060)]

think of the children

General Rule With Prior Generations

[eldavojohn (898314)]

I don't know about your parents but mine were rife with "I didn't have it, why do you need it?" mentality. Luckily I convinced them to get a computer but it wasn't until I moved out that they had the internet ...

It's about breaking down barriers and proving that games can be more useful than just leisure and entertainment. Collaboration, teamwork, and problem solving are just a few things that come from games without the edutainment factor predesigned into them.

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[Mastadex (576985)]

Funny you should say that, because I understood the concept of chemistry through a game called Atomix [wikipedia.org] then from my grade school science teacher.

Re:General Rule With Prior Generations

[MrSteveSD (801820)]

Unless you are unlucky enough to be in Iraq, shooting snipers and throwing grenades is not much of a useful skill. You may also find that your skills are not actually so useful in the real world. Trying going to Iraq and rapidly jumping up and down in the hope of avoiding enemy fire :)

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[spun (1352)]

Are you trying to be funny or are you just unimaginative? There are more types of games than just FPS. Many strategy games can teach economic concepts, math, and critical thinking. RPGs could be used to teach history; I'm sure many people remember more about pioneer life from playing Oregon Trail than they do from history lessons. Games can very easily teach physics, math, logic, chemistry, biology, and much more.

Re:General Rule With Prior Generations

[CSMatt (1175471)]

The only thing I learned from the Oregon Trail was never to ford a river.

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[MrSteveSD (801820)]

Especially if Josey Wales is on the opposite side.

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[Qzukk (229616)]

As for math, eh, addition and subtraction pretty much covers it in today's games.

Math stuff is overrated anyway. Now, looking at the weather report for the week to determine how much raw material you should buy, then figure out what you're going to charge for a cold cup of lemonade, that's a real lesson for you. Oh, and you have $10, how many bags of sugar can you buy at $2.15 a bag, how many lemons can you buy at $1 a pound, how many small/medium/large cups you can buy... and then how many cups can you m

Re:General Rule With Prior Generations

[eln (21727)]

I think it even goes beyond that though, because the elementary school kids of today have parents that grew up in the video game era. Many of these parents certainly grew up playing video games and should know that video games are not as harmful as their parents thought they were. Many of them probably remember playing games like Oregon Trail, so they would know that games can be at least somewhat educational.

However, I think especially when you're dealing with young parents, they tend to not really know how to react to these sorts of things, so they by default fall back on what their parents thought.

Growing up in the '80s, most parents of that time felt that video games had absolutely no value, and their use for any purpose was to be actively discouraged. While today's parents may not see games as pure evil, they are still harboring a lot of this latent fear of gaming that was hammered into them by their parents, even though they themselves played video games quite a lot and (probably) didn't end up as sociopaths.

I think people tend to be very over-conservative about these things when they are just starting out as parents, because they are terrified of doing anything that might "ruin" their kids. Sort of like how people keep the hand sanitizer around at all times with the first child, but by the time the third or fourth rolls around, they clean the pacifier by sticking it in their own mouths for half a second.

Re:General Rule With Prior Generations

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

Or perhaps the parents of today remember the whole Edutainment boom and what a load of crock it was? We tried the idea of mixing games and education. Save for a few specific instances*, the games did a much poorer job at teaching over traditional methods.

And I think that's where part of the problem lies. The summary suggests that some teachers are having wonderful results with games. Yet I guarantee you that with that game time, a Blue Back Speller, and a few sheets of number tables, I could teach those kids far more than the game will ever teach them.

Of course, my methods may not appeal to the "new math" crowd, or the anti-phonetics crowd. None the less, I've seen the results of a variety of methods, and the traditional, straight-to-the-point methods of phonics and number tables are far more effective.

I'm not against the idea of games as teaching aides, I simply haven't seen very many effective implementations of the concept. And besides, most kids can be excited by practical applications of their knowledge over trying to make the learning process more "fun". Give them a reason to learn, and you'd be surprised how fast they soak up that knowledge!

* I did have good luck with my son both on Fraction Fever and Odell Lake. (Though we used the latter as reading practice.)

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[Belial6 (794905)]

And TV's education abilities are proven in iron-clad studies to be more effective than traditional methods?

I have yet to see a legitimate study on video games and television.

Your biased is plain to see from your very first sentence. Is that you Jonathan Green [theonion.com]? Maybe if you watched more TV, you would have better comprehension of English.

Maybe:

Yes, a very BIG maybe.

-Very young children don't yet distinguish completely between real and pretend.

If you believe this argument, then to keep from being a hypocrate, you would also have to believe that reading books are bad for children, and in fact even reading to children as bad. Sorry. I'm not buying it.

-Children who watch TV excessively are more passive

Need you be reminded that Corrolation does not imply causation [wikipedia.org]. In fact, any corrolation could more like

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[geekoid (135745)]

Many people have weak minds and think however the man up front of the church tells them to thing, regardless of their experiences.

I grew up in the 70's and my parents saw the value of games.

Mostly, Their value to shut me the hell up!

Re:I didn't have it, why do you need it and not PE

[hardburn (141468)]

Except that PE today consists largely of simple exercises and the most non-competitive games you can find, because it'd be a real tragedy to tell a child that they might not be good at something.

I remember math games as a kid

[cephah (1244770)]

I remember those games where the math game gave you a series of equations and once they were all solved it would tell you how many you got correct and your overall statistics and speed. Was about 10 years ago but it really helped me a lot. With the amazing progress in computer science these 10 years I imagine if someone made something similar, maybe wrapped a better interface around it with more interactivity, kids would really benefit from it.

Alternatively: kids prefer games to regular ....

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

... studying. Of course kids will pick the fun option.

I don't really care *how* kids learn, so long as they really are learning.

Far too many educational methods (both regular and games) are ineffective as teaching tools. Many so-called educational games just teach nothing (yes, there are many that are effective).

Re:Alternatively: kids prefer games to regular ...

[ArcherB (796902)]

Many so-called educational games just teach nothing (yes, there are many that are effective).

I don't think I learned a damn thing from "Oregon Trail". [gamespy.com]

I assume today's games are better at both teaching and entertainment.

They're primarily entertainment

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

They have to be to compete with other entertainment options available to kids. The entertainment comes before education.

Putting "educational" on the box just helps the kids con their parents into buying the game.

Number Munchers anyone?

[Gat0r30y (957941)]

This game [wikipedia.org] was bad ass. I never thought of it as educational as a kid, but I certainly wouldn't have any problem with kids playing that in school.

Re:Number Munchers anyone?

[damn_registrars (1103043)]

I grew up in Minnesota - which is what the M in MECC stood for - and we had Number Munchers, Word Munchers, Oregon Trail, and a variety of other educational games. All for the trusty Apple IIgs. If anything like those is available when my own (as of yet unborn) children reach school age, I would also support those titles in the classroom.

One of the first logic-based problems I remember from school was a "lights-out" bonus round from one of the Munchers.

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[Digestromath (1190577)]

I remember we had Math Blaster, alot of little mini games teaching all your basic math things.

We also had the first iteration of Carmen Sandiego games for geography, which I have to say is a great way to learn about the world.

Kid Pix was like photoshop for elementary school.

And for some reason they let us play Sim City, I don't really know what it was meant to teach us but I feel I learned something from it.

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[siriuskase (679431)]

Sim City, now that game had an agenda. The only way to make a stable city was to keep lowering the taxes. Made me wonder how accurate the simulation was because if it was at all accurate, no intelligent person would tolerate taxation above a very small amount It also had a rather ruthless urban renewal technique, invite a monster or a natural disaster to occur.

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[Broken scope (973885)]

Oh man, kid pix, those were the days.

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[langelgjm (860756)]

Yeah, I remember that game very well. In fact, I was just about to play an online version for kicks at http://www.muncherz.com [muncherz.com], but the site's down. I wonder if an influx of nostalgic /.ers is responsible.

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[bussdriver (620565)]

online version
http://numbermunchers.org/ [numbermunchers.org]

Ummm....

[Otter (3800)]

Adults might not want to scoff, however, because 11% of teachers are already using video games in class and they report great results.

Is the second half of that simply made up by the submitter? It's certainly not in the link and I don't see it in the link's link.

Take that out and this basically comes down to "Parents don't think children should have candy for breakfast; children disagree".

Thats Sad

[j_kenpo (571930)]

I think the general stigma that games are for "fun" and have little to add educationally is a bit sad. I have found some educational games to be incredible at learning new things, such as MySpanish Coach for the DS, which is especially good for when I travel. Granted, its not my only source of material, but it has been an invaluable study tool. And lets not forget, games like Police Quest were used an instructional tools many years ago.

I wonder how much the 3D shooters and GTA's have to do with the negative

Math maze

[Andrew Kismet (955764)]

In my last year of Primary School, the single class computer was oversubscribed because of the one game it had: a simple maze game, where certain paths were blocked with 'enemies'. On the earliest levels, these enemies would bring up simple addition problems which had to solved in under 10 seconds. I can't recall the exact penalty for failure, but the motivation to get it right was there. On later stages, subtraction, multiplication, division and simple algebra became commonplace. The quickest way around a maze would take you through harder problems - longer routes would evade the problem but reduce your overall score for a level. For a few solid weeks, it became highly competitive amongst all the boys in our class.

Being brought up with games, both at home and in school, I see no reason to oppose them now. Provided they're correctly and professionally designed, appeal to both boys and girls, and are usable by both students and teachers, they'll help increase mathematical, literary, and scientific skills. The only thing they're unlikely to help with are more creative subjects, and I'm sure the spread of computers will be the ruination of handwriting everywhere.

non-video games can be educational too

[OrangeTide (124937)]

Back when I was in school we played a lot of games in the classroom as part of the curriculum. Especially in the lower grades. Sure video games can be an educational tool, but so can the non-video variety. And games that allow a large number of students to participate at once have their own unique dynamic that I think every kid should experience. And it's not something you can really get with a video game. Sorry, but an MMO is not really the same as 20 students in a class room all trying to play a game together in their noisy and chaotic way.

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[Blakey Rat (99501)]

Even in high school, we have a civics teacher who taught us a lot about the world with Civilization (the original board game the computer game is based on, although he had the computer game available also.) And when I left high school, I spent a summer with a group playing games like Diplomacy, Axis and Allies, Shogun, etc. They're obviously not for everybody, but you learn a lot about how the real world works by playing Diplomacy. Especially when you get stabbed in the back by all the other players, and di

I grew up with educational video games in the 80s.

[Vellmont (569020)]

They were mostly games where you had to use lay/lie correctly, or add up numbers, or whatever. This was in the early 80s on PET computers.

I also remember some weird machine that combined a record player with a series of slides. It asked some questions via the record player and you entered in a choice from a series of a few buttons. (I'm still dying to know what this thing was, so if anyone knows, please respond).

Anyway, I don't see what peoples issue is. If modern educational games are anything like wha

List of Games?

[oni (41625)]

I'm sure slashdotters can suggest some good educational games. My favorite is Oribter, it's a spaceflight simulator, but based on real physics. Playing it teaches kids about the scale of the universe, the energies involved in space travel, general math, and of course, orbital mechanics.

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

I...am the Word Wizard.

[Perseid (660451)]

Welcome to my cave.

Evolution of teaching

[Digestromath (1190577)]

Using electronic gaming is just an evolution of regular teaching methods. Using games is a tried and true method to teaching children.

Teachers will use all sorts of classic games to kids. I remember bingo, card games and charades all being used to help me learn french in elementary school (Anglophone Canadian thing I guess).

So what is electronic gaming but the next step?

Plus there are all the advantages to exposing our children to technology. Less of a concern today, but it was different 30 years ago.

Goes without saying?

[frovingslosh (582462)]

There's no mention of the games being fun, but that goes without saying

I take exception with this statement. Having seen many supposedly educational games, my impression is that most if not all of then are not fun, and many are not very educational. Many are an absolute waste and should be treated with the disdain that this article indicates that many parents have.

Adoption rates

[jonaskoelker (922170)]

Although only 15% of teachers [...] agree. Adults might not want to scoff, however, because 11% of teachers are already using video games in class and they report great results.

In other words, more than two thirds of the teachers who think games can be educational are already using them. That's a not too shabby adoption rate.

However, if they are as socially skilled as slashdot gamers, I predict difficulties when it comes to advocacy ;)

Oh really?

[steveo777 (183629)]

Number Munchers [wikipedia.org] FTW!

Actually, these types of games really did teach my how to quickly process simple math. The only reason I ever lost was those dang Troggles!!!

I learned pretty well...

[austinian (918413)]

...something that the teacher wasn't even teaching, and that I wouldn't be taught for near 5 years. In second grade, I was able to teach myself algebra by analyzing problems and their solutions as posed by an educational game that we were encouraged to play (for its arithmatic game, but that was too easy). If someone had then taught me the order of operations and negative numbers, I would have had a much better start in my math education. Sadly, this did not happen, they taught multiplication tables instead

My son's learned a lot

[PIPBoy3000 (619296)]

My son Sam has been playing video games for several years and I feel he's learned quite a bit:

• WWII weapons suck and are extremely inaccurate.
• Always lay down suppressing fire and try to flank the enemy.
• When engaging the enemy, use overwhelming force whenever possible.
• If you pull back on the stick while firing afterburners, you will black out.

Joking aside, I think gaming has snuck in a variety of educational facts into his noggin. Planning, thinking logically, history, reading, and problem solving are just a few of the things I've noticed rubbing off in the name of fun.

Back in the day when I taught high school biology, I wrote a dog breeding program that taught genetics. The kids loved it, even though the interface was simple and the genetics were overly simplified. The key is that a game must be fun first and slyly sneak in some educational content along the way.

Vocabulary

[BountyX (1227176)]

Computer Learning was a huge part of my school growing up. Elementary and Middle School taught with interactive games.
We Had:

Magic Garden (math, vocab, typing speed, was givien to us in first grade on Mac machines and early pcs)

Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego (was in our library)

Oregon Trail (was in our library, on an early mac)

Accelerated Reader program (quizzing system where books are worth points for reading based on difficulty and size)

I cant remember the others. I remember I learned the words dex

So True

[TastyCakes (917232)]

These kids are so right. I learned at least 90% of my personal skills through Quake Team Fortress back in the late 90s. Or should I say 5kyllz?

It was a simpler time...

The Ultimate Educational Programs:

[TerranFury (726743)]

1 - gcc

2 - Firefox (w. Google & Wikipedia)

When their powers combine, you can build anything. It's like Legos on crack. And who doesn't like Legos?

Games shouldn't teach "facts"...

[7Prime (871679)]

Educational methods that revolve around memorization, be it in games or anything else, are usually very ineffecient. Teaching facts is along the lines of giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how to do so. Once you learn that fact, it does little to nothing to your overall education in other areas.

The most effective teaching methods involve giving students the tools to be able to learn how to learn. Most learning will be done on a student's own through exploration, even if much of it is passive.

That's where video games come in. Legend of Zelda may not teach you Mayan history, it might not show you, directly, how to do algebra, but it develops problem solving and creative thinking skills in fairly complex ways that will make a student's job in learning those things FAR easier. Zelda isn't even an "education game" but its innate problem solving is more involved that almost any story problem you'll encounter in HS, and kids play Zelda in grade school. The problem is, it's not easilly quantifiable because there are no hard-and-fast facts being learned, but as I said, fact learning is one of the least inefficient educational methods. Sure, facts must be taught, but there should be much less emphasis on fact learning and more emphasis on critical thinking skills.

Meanwhile, over the course of Zelda, or even an adventure FPS, RPG, or most other modern games, you're reading a lot of on-screen text, you're doing mathmatical computation for stats, puzzles, and the like... and all surrounded by various time limits that act as drill. And to top it off, it's fun and doesn't FEEL like work. What more could an educator ask for?

Portal

[bionicpill (970942)]

I say make them play portal to improve their reasoning skills, and teach them to think of creative solutions to complex problems. Also to keep them paranoid of rogue computers and robots, since that is a future threat our kids will surely have to face.

And there is a HUGE market for them

[Frenchy_2001 (659163)]

Educational Gaming is *ALREADY* here and it's already making a killing in the market, not only for kids but particularly for adults.
Some of the best sellers on the Nintendo DS could easily be classified as Edutainment. Games like Brain Age, Flash Focus or Brain Coach are all games that will also teach you to use your abilities. More recently, games like my French/Spanish Coach or My Word Coach are designed to improve your mastery of your language or start on a new one.
Those "games" work by making the necessary repetition of teaching (especially for language) less tedious than "classic" methods. After all, it does not really matters how little Johnny learnt to associate head with cabeza, it just needs to be drilled into his mind until the association is automatic. If it takes simple games to take the tedious part away, I'm all for it. I personally "play" My Spanish Coach and this has been the easiest method for me to get motivated and learn that language (YMMV).
The DS has been a revolution on that front, seen as a very nice gadget by lots of adults on top as a game console for kids. The touch screen interface blends the genre and allows new type of software for such a cheap gadget (~$100, far cheaper than a pda and much wider spread).

Check some of the games available on DS. Lots of choices.

Google Earth

[Bayoudegradeable (1003768)]

Using Google Earth to zoom in on cities of the world I print out a "snapshot," usually showing a key feature of a city; building, river, coastline, etc. I put it on the board and the kids get three guess each (a day) to figure out which city it is. They eat it up, often begging me to print up a new city as I get to school. Not really a "video game" but a use of amazingly cool software. For this instance, and perhaps it's true for using actual games, it is the competition of winning, of being the first to get the city that is driving many of my kids. I wonder how much the desire to win drives the "fun" behind academic video games.

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[Bryansix (761547)]

You haven't looked too hard have you? A quick check on google turned this up. http://shop.knowledgeadventure.com/Departments/JumpStart-Series.aspx [knowledgeadventure.com]

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[fructose (948996)]

I'll be damned if my kid hasn't picked up some from her Leapster. All the games have some educational content, and she loves the animal games. They use a reward system like XBox Achievements to get them motivation to play more mini games. And the mini games are things like fill in the missing letter, and simple math. My daughter is 5 and she loves it. There are plenty of games to pick from too, so there are options for everyone.

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[Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286)]

Yes. I recommend linux. You learn all sorts of things digging in the source code. It also makes a great bedtime story.

/linux/arch/i386/boot/main.c

void main(void)
{
/* First, copy the boot header into the "zeropage" */
copy_boot_params();
...
go_to_protected_mode();
}

I love happy endings.

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[Bryansix (761547)]

Oregon Trail? The one where you ate only the smaller fish but had to watch out for anglers? Both great games and both educational.

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[meringuoid (568297)]

Maybe someone has found out how to write educational games that are fun to play. Maybe the situation has changed. I still have to be convinced.

Well, there's Brain Age, which has done more for the nation's mental arithmetic skills than anything else since Carol Vorderman. That's fun all right, and I don't think it's left the top ten bestsellers list in the last two years.

Other than that: you'd be surprised how much you pick up from Sid Meier. The background information in the Civilopedia and its eqivalen