$100 Roku Netflix Player Targets Apple TV

Binge notes CNet coverage of the Netflix Player by Roku, which it calls "bare-bones." Less than 10% of Netfilx's catalog is available for the Instant Viewing option. Three more Netflix players are said to be due for release by the end of the year. The Roku is "...the first product that allows subscribers to have movies and TV shows from the service's Instant Viewing feature (aka 'Watch Now') to be streamed directly to their TV screen... With the release of the Netflix Player, subscribers need only have a wired or wireless broadband connection to access the entire Instant Viewing catalog through their TV."

I wonder what is inside...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518)]

I hit the FCC to see if I could get internal shots of this widget, no luck, alas. Interestingly, though, their earlier Soundbridge product appears to be based on a BlackFin DSP core(read, supported by ucLinux). This thing could kick ass as a homebrew STB if the internals are reasonably friendly. That goes double if somebody can get a mythTV frontend running on one.

If anybody knows anthing about the internals, do tell.

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[yincrash (854885)]

Agreed. This is a very cheap box that can stream HD media over a network. If anyone can figure out how to hack it, a lot of doors could be opened.

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[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

This is a very cheap box that can stream HD media over a network.

Where did you get that from? The article goes out of its way to mention that it won't deliver HD-quality content.

Re:I wonder what is inside...

[yincrash (854885)]

The Future Netflix is planning HD streaming, and this box will support it. When Netflix gets HD streaming content, they'll update the box by firmware to support HD resolutions at higher bitrates of 4-6mbps, including 5.1 surround (everything is stereo now). The menus will also be upgraded to HD res, too. In the future, the Roku-branded box will be upgraded to accept non-Netflix content, too. (And btw, the update on the Mac client situation is that they're just trying to sort out the DRM issues, or lack of a suitable system they can stream to Macs on.)

http://gizmodo.com/389698/first-netflix-streaming-box-review-100-and-unlimited-downloads [gizmodo.com]

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[MBCook (132727)]

Really? The article I read (along with others not linked above) say that it can stream HD over a network, there just isn't any HD content in the Netflix Instant catalog at the moment.

I'm with the GP. Besides my interest of this little box for it's intended use, I find it to be a cheap and probably silent little HD capable Linux box. This is if someone figures out how to put Linux on it (some think it is Linux based), and it can be done by end users/hackers (i.e. no crypto-signed kernel images and such).

Re:I wonder what is inside...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518)]

The service won't deliver HD; because bandwidth costs Netflix money(and nothing short of a tape of the entire comcast board of directors sodomizing orphans will get an American household broadband fast enough to stream HD over, in any case), the hardware itself is said to be HD capable, with just software updates, at least at at modest bitrates, and it has HDMI and so forth.

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[geekoid (135745)]

I wonder if they could bittorrent using other peoples downloads as seeds?

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[Bill Dimm (463823)]

According to a different review [gizmodo.com]:
"Netflix is planning HD streaming, and this box will support it. When Netflix gets HD streaming content, they'll update the box by firmware to support HD resolutions at higher bitrates of 4-6mbps, including 5.1 surround"

I don't know about the internals, but...

[PRMan (959735)]

May I point you to the Roku Photobridge [rokulabs.com] forums, where a bunch of abandoned users hang out.

Oh, the Roku Photobridge was a great machine back in 2005. It's main purpose was to view pictures from you digital camera at HD resolutions and to play MP3's, but it didn't take long for people to realize that everything you needed to upconvert DVD-quality movies (stored on your network) to HD was there. Or even to play HD video pulled from your TiVo or MythTV. Almost.

They promised a better video player... But never delivered...

They promised a faster connection for HD... But never delivered...

They promised to open up the firmware... But never delivered...

They promised an update to make subtitles and DTS possible (they weren't even going to do it, just stop the accidental prevention of these things by the third-party developers)... They never delivered.

People waited years for these features, which were always "just around the corner".

Basically, once the SoundBridge took off, they just completely abandoned their small but faithful user group. The group wasn't even asking for much, just the source code so they could figure out how to make their own updates and how to interface with the hardware themselves.

But, I got tired of the lack of DTS support, the sound stuttering which got progressively worse, etc. My DirecTV DVR and PS3 now cover all the features that it did and do it much better.

I would be very hesitant to buy things from Roku with the track record they have established. If the "Netflix player" doesn't take off, you might be the next owner of an abandoned product.

Cheap enough to try

[herring0 (1286926)]

I certainly hope for more out of these type devices in the future, but I can certainly say I'm interested. If nothing else it's a cheap piece of hardware that (hopefully!) just works and adds a benefit to my subscription. Plus without the FIOS TV options and lackluster cable options I've loved Netflix or e-hits ever since I started using those types of services. I'm also glad to see that some people at least are trying to move forward with ideas like this.

Interesting Box

[MBCook (132727)]

An interesting little box. I wouldn't mind having one. I have Netflix (which I love) but don't use their streaming service since I'm a Mac guy. I like that they have it all ready for HD.

If I had no decent boxes, I'd buy one.

But I have a TiVo Series 3. It's a fantastic box. It can handle this kind of stuff. I really don't want another box at this point that can do this kind of stuff, that I have to switch between. I've already got my TiVo, my DVD player, and my 360. I don't need another single use box.

Netflix said they were in chats with other people to make more boxes. Having this integrated into a DVD/Blu-Ray player would be nice. I think they were thinking of letting the PS3 or 360 do this.

I'll gladly use it should it become available for my TiVo.

But again kudos to them for getting it out so fast after the announcement, charging so little ($100? No monthly fee above my current 3 disc subscription level?), and having it all ready for when they have an HD catalog.

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[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

I have Netflix (which I love) but don't use their streaming service since I'm a Mac guy. I like that they have it all ready for HD.

Where are you getting this from? Someone else up above mentioned the same thing, and all I can find is the article saying that it won't give you HD--that if you want HD you should look elsewhere. Am I missing something here?

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[MBCook (132727)]

The articles (and the FAQ on the box) say that it is capable and ready of showing HD content, but right now nothing in Netflix's instant viewing catalog is in HD. That's why I put "all ready for HD". The CNet article doesn't seem to mention that.

From Wired's article:

"Higher quality streams are available, and over time, HD streams will show up, which the box can handle."

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[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

Ahhh. Thanks. Silly of me not to read articles that aren't linked from the story submission. : p

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[LMacG (118321)]

Here's a review [crunchgear.com] with a pictures of the back of the unit.

not first, but cheapest.

[Dare nMc (468959)]

I already purchased and have been using the D-Link DGP1200 [walmart.com] bought at walmart for $180 to do the exact same thing.

Unlike the Roku, you can watch any content on your PC, and even get to the Netflix site to choose the movie you want to watch (if you have a bookmark to get their) It is even technically HD quality (though the stream from netflix isn't.)

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[MBCook (132727)]

I think you're looking at this box as more that it is. This is not a media center extender. I don't think of it as competing with Windows MCE, a 360 connecting to something, or your little box.

To me this is nothing more than a DVD player that has an infinite supply of things from my Netflix queue in it (with slightly limited selection). For that purpose, it's a great little box at a fantastic price. I'm surprised they are only charging $100 for it and not $200 or so.

I have too many boxes already

[ViX44 (893232)]

With a pile built of a DVD/VCR Combo, stereo system, vinyl player, over-the-air digital converter, and some old Nintendoes, I don't need another box to wire up.

I wouldn't mind hearing about Netflix escaping the Windows/IE trap. I would approve of streaming Netflix to my laptop that's running Ubuntu. Well, if the wireless card would work on it...

What about service on boxes we already have?

[assassinator42 (844848)]

Like game consoles and DVRs and such. Of course, this is hindered by these companies having their own video download service. I'd imagine a Wii Netflix channel could work (none of the videos are in HD, right?), but apparently they use WMV. That would work well with 360, but Microsoft has their own video download service.

MythTV plugin?

[Mr. Sketch (111112)]

So when do we get a MythTV plugin? That would be the best solution so we don't need extra hardware around the living room.

Pretty good deal

[explosivejared (1186049)]

What do you think: is the Netflix Player a game-changing product that bests Apple TV? Or is the selection too lackluster to be worth even its $100 asking price?

Selection will improve. It may a commercial mistake to release without the full library behind it, but I think it will still find some measure of success. Either way, this is a win for customers. Something this cheap is really going to threaten the other players. For starters, the streaming quality is a non-issue for most, which makes the price difference look all the more appealing. The scant library is a downer, but again that will be fixed. The only problem I see in the system is ISP's mucking things up. They scream about taking down net neutrality to augment this sort of thing, but in the end people actually using the bandwidth they payed for will make them much angrier.

I like that netflix is jumping into the mix. Still, I would prefer the Internet not to be hijacked by video on demand when we have such an expensive cable system already available. However, I've come to the realization that video on demand is already moving forward on the net, and the best I can hope for is video on demand platform be the most customer friendly one as possible.

I haven't even read the article yet...

[SCHecklerX (229973)]

...but if this thing is as slick as the roku soundbridge, methinks I'll finally get a netflix subscription. I love my soundbridge (well, not this weekend while rokuradio was having mysql backend issues...is that fixed yet?).

This is the real dawn of IPTV. Serious.

[StreetStealth (980200)]

I just looked over the info at Roku's site and I think I'm finally prepared to say... This is the one we've all been waiting for.

While Roku's refreshingly good industrial and UI design looks like it should help, though, here's the real reason this is going to be huge:

I don't think I can overstate the importance of having a single monthly payment to rent a good number of movies and TV shows versus the failed model of "buying" movies that will never leave your set-top box or even the yet unproven model of renting them at $4 a pop with the remote. This is why Netflix beat Blockbuster and it's why they'll beat Apple TV.

This is the thing that will kill the DVD and cable at the same time.

What it comes down to, for now, is Netflix's significantly preferable all-you-can-eat model versus Apple TV's significantly greater selection. But the Netflix selection is only getting bigger.

Oblig....

[thatseattleguy (897282)]

1) Roll out an on-demand video service so crippled by DRM restrictions that it can work in only ONE browser (IE), and on only ONE platform (Windows) - and those only if you have the tip-top absolute latest releases and updates.

2) Find that half your customers can't (or won't) use your service as a result.

3) License others to make special-purpose hardware just to get around the restrictions in (1) and take a big cut of that.

4) Profit!!!!! /tsg/

Roku??

[Microsift (223381)]

I thought Roku got killed by the Fire Lord over 100 years ago!

This is worthless

[dfn_deux (535506)]

No onboard disk cache, an absolute max bitrate of 2Mb/s, and max resolution of 480p make this box basically the worst streaming solution for early adopters. Netflix needs to resolve some more basic issue with their service before they try and make a serious run at hardware streaming end points. For instance their service autodetects your bandwidth and selects what it feels is an appropriate bitrate for your viewing w/o giving you any option cache a larger portion of the video in advance and allow a higher overall bitrate/quality. Who is the target audience for this? People with a hankering for poor quality SD movies from a large back catalog whom also own a set with HDMI inputs and a highspeed data connection? Seriously guys, try a bit harder on the RD side next time.

Re:This is worthless

[daoine_sidhe (619572)]

Me. I'm the target audience. I don't have a HD capable television, and have no particular desire to own one until the prices come down considerably. I do have a high-speed internet connection. I have loved the fact that I can hook the s-video and stereo output from my laptop to my entertainment center and watch movies, documentaries, television shows, etc. Before you decide that the only audience worth having owns a 40"+ 1080P television, take a look around. Not everyone can drop that much cash on entertainment, and not everyone thinks it is a good idea to buy entertainment on credit. For $100, with no extra monthly fees, this quite simply enhances the service I already have (and am quite happy with). I think the R&D was right on, and they picked the perfect mix of capabilities for an initial model. Look for these to sell in huge quantities.

Anyone tried one of these services?

[bsDaemon (87307)]

I have not tried this, or Apple TV, or anything similar - but I'm not sure I'd enjoy the experience anyway.

I have enough trouble trying to stream a crappy video off of Youtube via a cable connection. I have to worry about the bandwidth being used by the rest of the family, I have to worry about the amount of traffic at the other end, i have to worry about not getting screwed by the cable company who is trying to cram my whole neighbourhood into a tightly controlled unit.

It just doesn't seem like I'd be abl

Summary. Almost There...

[llZENll (545605)]

Awesome price.
Awesome interface.
Awesome hardware.
Sucky video quality.
Sucky audio.

"Quality is not great, even at 2.2 Mbps"
"everything is stereo now"

I'll plunk down my $100 and switch to Netflix instantly when HD comes out, Bluray's win didn't last long...

"Netflix is planning HD streaming, and this box will support it. When Netflix gets HD streaming content, they'll update the box by firmware to support HD resolutions at higher bitrates of 4-6mbps, including 5.1 surround."

Is it a full Roku Box?

[tji (74570)]

Roku had a really cool HD Media Player box, which was Linux based and extensible. If this thing is derived from that same platform (with hardware accelerated HD MPEG2 playback) this is a huge bargain.

If it is a closed box, which only does Netflix, it is not so interesting.

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[tji (74570)]

There is a forum on Roku's site which has threads discussing this device:

http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?t=16685

Unfortunately, it appears it is built as a "closed" device. But, if it could be hacked, the chip it's based on looks quite nice: http://www.nxp.com/#/aip/aip=[aip=416]|pp=[t=aip,i=416]

The device is at least partially based on free software, so that may help in loading an alternate OS: http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?t=16691

I love Netflix.

[rindeee (530084)]

And I'd LOVE to use their instant viewing feature but I don't have a Windows machine. I have a Mac Mini and a PS3 for all movie viewing via their respective media GUIs. Why Netflix doesn't have streaming on platforms other than Windows and these new dedicated devices is beyond me. It would certainly be cheap enough to do and provide instant market share for them.

AppleTV Owner - Will buy Roku; not unhappy withATV

[cybereal (621599)]

See, I have the Apple TV, and I've loved it since day one. I double love it since the "2.0" major firmware updates and feature additions. But the wife, you see, has had netflix for years. And since they added the streaming movie feature, she watches maybe 4 or 5 flix that way a month. Thing is though, the selection pool is by and large old B movies nobody would've watched on purpose if they weren't really in the mood for something cheesy.

So basically, the Apple TV and the Roku are rather complementary in my opinion. The Roku is the source for cheap totally random movie watching and the Apple TV gives me my higher end rentable new releases, my podcasts and music directly from my media housing computer, and lots of other nice aspects. So yeah, I don't see this really being any kind of direct competition unless you have absolutely no taste or preference of your movies, then I guess the cheapest crap in the barrel would please you as much as the top of it.

anthony wood

[trb (8509)]

The cnet article missed the interesting bit - that Roku's founder (and Replay TV's as well), Anthony Wood, worked at Neflix for a while on this and then returned to Roku, and Neflix bought a stake in Roku, as reported here. [yahoo.com]

Re:er?

[Bryansix (761547)]

Because if Netflix offers more movies maybe you can ditch that evil company called Comcast and save some dough in the progress. The customer service ratings just came out and Comcast and Charter tied for last place by having the most dis-satisfied customers.

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[cayenne8 (626475)]

"Because if Netflix offers more movies maybe you can ditch that evil company called Comcast and save some dough in the progress"

But, regular Netflix apparently has MANY more times the titles on dvd than on this unit they're selling.

Besides, if you get this unit, how will you ever "back up" a copy of the movie like you can with the physical dvd.

:-)

Re:er?

[omnipresentbob (858376)]

I'm hoping it's just licensing issues that's causing them to not be able to offer the "many more titles".

And backing up a copy of the movie would be irrelevant with this service, as you could watch it at any time, as many times as you want.

That is, if they continue to stay in business (and they likely will).

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[Reece400 (584378)]

Well, starting at $8.95 per month, I think you could still afford to go & purchase a few DVD's a month. Alternatly hook up your VCR (Or DVD recorder) and record it just like you would from Cable TV :D

Re:backup

[cayenne8 (626475)]

"Why do you need to backup rented movies? I don't get it."

I think most of us do it as a free service for Netflix, in thanks for all their convenience and great business model. If they ever lose their copies....we're there for them!!

:-)

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[tepples (727027)]

Because if Netflix offers more movies maybe you can ditch that evil company called Comcast and save some dough in the progress.

Not if the phone company doesn't offer DSL where you live.

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[Lumpy (12016)]

Problem is netflix's streaming offering is really low quality video. My AppleTV has a HD rental function that looks as good as my BluRay player does.

This is NOT competition for the Apple Tv. it's an offering for the poor that want a halfed assed option for cheaper.

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[RareButSeriousSideEf (968810)]

Hmm... I've had the opposite experience; Netflix's streaming video has been nearly DVD quality most of the time for me. My broadband is usually ~4.5Mbps down.

With no monthly limit plans starting @ $8.99 a month, that ain't a bad deal IMO. Watch as many DVDs as you can mail back in a month, plus unlimited titles from their streaming catalog.

I wish their streaming catalog was a bit more robust, but I expect that will only improve over time.

Re:er?

[initdeep (1073290)]

How about because if you already pay for netflix, this service is entirely free.

meaning i can watch any of the "Watch it Now" movies (and TV shows) they offer simply by using this device.

And the sheer number (and its been increasing rather dramatically lately) of titles available simply dwarfs the offerings from any on demand service available.

Can you watch Dexter Season 1? Tripping the Rift Season 1, Heroes Season 1 and 2, A Fairly large number of Anime titles, a fairly large number of older movies from the 80's and 90's?

you may not want to, but some people do, and now they can without t he need to have a cable or even a satellite connection in their home.

I actually use my Vista MC with a netflix plug-in to do this all the time.

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[tepples (727027)]

you may not want to [watch back-catalog video on demand], but some people do, and now they can without t he need to have a cable or even a satellite connection in their home.

How are customers going to get the broadband "without t he need to have a cable or even a satellite connection"?

Re:er?

[kannibal_klown (531544)]

Not for nothing, but how is this different from the In Demand feature that's been part of Comcast for several years now? Why would I need/want this?

Selection and cost.

Though the Netflix OnDemand selection is weak and old, it's a lot larger than the free Comcast OnDemand selection. While Comcast's selection grows if you have premium channels it's still smaller than Netflix's selection.

If you already have Netflix, then once you have the device there's no extra cost. While most of Comcast's OnDemand library is free, not everything is and not everyone has Starz/HBO/Showtime. Meanwhile some of those shows are (or at least were) offered via NetFlix OnDemand.

I'ts not a must-by, but if you're a Netflix customer with a high speed connection then it's a tempting self-birthday gift.

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[PhreakOfTime (588141)]

How about... because you dont want to give a single dollar more to Comcast for their abysmal handling of their own internet traffic, and traffic shaping of selective protocols?

Anything that drives comcast out of business and destroys their line of thinking that they are 'so big that nobody will challenge us' is a positive for the rest of the internet community.

Screw You Comcast!

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[wvmarle (1070040)]

How about... because you dont want to give a single dollar more to Comcast for their abysmal handling of their own internet traffic, and traffic shaping of selective protocols?

How long until they start traffic-shaping the Netflix streams? Sounds to me like large amounts of data.

Re:er?

[cwgmpls (853876)]

Let's see... Comcast is $85 per month (Minneapolis area). Netflix is $5 per month. That is why you might need/want this.

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[mattack2 (1165421)]

Only $8.99 and higher plans get the streaming service. Your intended point is valid though.

Re:er?

[MightyYar (622222)]

This is about $9/month after an initial $100 investment. That's less than $18/month if you only use it for a year, and gives you access to 10,000 programs (including TV shows).

If Comcast even offers $18/month service, it's because your municipality wrote it into the contract and it's going to be local channels in analog only.