Microsoft To Pay People To Search

kolicha writes "After the failed Yahoo bid, Microsoft is going to try a new approach to gain market share on their rivals Google. Sponsored links will be pay per purchase rather than pay per click, and search users will be offered 'cash back' on their purchases."

Nope, sorry.

[Perseid (660451)]

This will get them some temporary hype. This will get them more activity - but only of people specifically looking for discounts. This isn't going to make them more popular as a search engine. The only way to do that is to make the better search engine.

Re:Nope, sorry.

[Darkness404 (1287218)]

Exactly, Google offers the same service but very few people search through that (of course Google's is without discounts). MS has an ability to beat Google by offering something different, but all MSN/Live has done is make a rather poor clone of Yahoo! Which many people switched to Google because they didn't like Yahoo!. There is little to no incentive to moving your home page away from Yahoo! and to MSN/Live search because it offers nothing more, while Google has an entire different layout (no ads, clean, but can be customized).

Re:Nope, sorry.

[clampolo (1159617)]

all MSN/Live has done is make a rather poor clone of Yahoo

Just a slight correction to what you are saying. www.msn.com looks like Yahoo! but they also run www.live.com which is meant to mimic the google style. Microsoft marketing is confusing and uses the term "live" for their search engine and for their online endeavors.

Re:Nope, sorry.

[jcr (53032)]

The only way to do that is to make the better search engine.

That is apparently not among their options. Remember who we're talking about here.

-jcr

Re:Nope, sorry.

[Mongoose Disciple (722373)]

The only way to do that is to make the better search engine.

Honestly, I don't think that'd even do it anymore, unless it was somehow ridiculously better.

Google's been dominant for so long that its cultural inertia value would carry it a long, long way even if someone else came up with a better search tomorrow -- not that I expect Microsoft to do that.

Re:

[moderatorrater (1095745)]

The same could have been said for hotmail, yahoo! mail, and the other free email programs, yet gmail continues to gain market share. It's not dominant, but it's carving an ever-increasing niche.

There is no such thing as an insurmountable lead, especially on the internet. MSN's offering something compelling with money back for consumers and sales-based cost for advertisers. Advertisers have wanted this for a long time, it eliminates click fraud at the expense of putting the control into the hands of adve

Re:Nope, sorry.

[kestasjk (933987)]

The same could have been said for hotmail, yahoo! mail, and the other free email programs, yet gmail continues to gain market share. It's not dominant, but it's carving an ever-increasing niche.

But gmail really is "ridiculously better" than hotmail. I switched the moment I first got my gmail account; 1GB of mail instead of 2MB, no spam instead of constant spam, a nice interface, threading (hotmail had no threading at the time), tagging, good search, long email retention, a viral invite system which has never been pulled off so successfully before or since, etc, etc.

It really was worlds away from the competition, and I don't think they would have taken over like they did without a huge edge.

Re:Nope, sorry.

[JohnBailey (1092697)]

Google's been dominant for so long that its cultural inertia value would carry it a long, long way even if someone else came up with a better search tomorrow -- not that I expect Microsoft to do that.

Don't be so sure. The Internet is a very fickle market. Today's hot property is tomorrows old news. It used to be that almost everyone used chat rooms, now not so much. Then social networking sites sprung up, but even they are getting old now. Tomorrow... Who knows. All it takes is for a new engine to offer something with a feature that Google doesn't yet have and if enough buzz is generated, then Google starts looking a bit ill. I use Google quite a bit, but if something better came along, I can guarantee that I would be out of there with no hesitation. It might take more than a better search engine, but nothing is keeping me at Google but my choice to use their easily replaced services. It's just a search engine and a few other web based apps, so someone else can just as easily offer me the same services, and I'll go there instead.

I want to be paid for posting this

[Freshly Exhumed (105597)]

How can I get Microsoft to give me cash back to not say bad things about them in online forums?

Re:

[ejecta (1167015)]

I believe you need to send your C.V. to their Public Propa... Relations Department.

Re:I want to be paid for posting this

[x_MeRLiN_x (935994)]

Would you care to be specific about what makes Microsoft's marketing more misleading than marketing in general?

Re:I want to be paid for posting this

[ejecta (1167015)]

Marketing in general has standards, one could make a case that their materials are far more misleading the the industry median.

An example would be the "Switch" Campaign, which was awhile ago involving a fabricated story presented as fact about a Mac user that switched to a Windows PC, which also included blantant falsehoods about software availability on Macs. (It was even covered here: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02%2F10%2F14%2F1232229&mode=nested&tid=109 [slashdot.org])

An more recent example one could use would be the whole Vista Ready/Capable disaster.

Re:I want to be paid for posting this

[AuMatar (183847)]

Marketing in general has standards

An industry who's sole purpose is to trick people into buying things they don't need or want has standards? You're funny.

Re:I want to be paid for posting this

[ozmanjusri (601766)]

I'll start.

• SCO
• "Vista Capable"
• Get the Facts.
• Windows Genuine "Advantage"
• Fake ROI/TCO models
• Misleading security stats (multiple)
• 235 Patents
• Zune astroturf sites
• XBox sales figures
• XBox failure rates
• OOOXML and ISO corruption
• Subverting OLPC (multiple lies)

There's plenty more. Feel free to add some yourselves - this could be fun.

Re:I want to be paid for posting this

[Macgrrl (762836)]

"Plays For Sure"

Soooo--- they are copying Fat Wallet?

[way2trivial (601132)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FatWallet [wikipedia.org]

"FatWallet also features a Cash Back rebate shopping section, where users can receive a percentage of purchases back from purchases made through referral links to hundreds of online retailers. Originally known as FatCash, this feature is where FatWallet got its start."

Re:Soooo--- they are copying Fat Wallet?

[Osty (16825)]

Rather, Microsoft is finally bringing Jellyfish.com [wikipedia.org] under the Windows Live branding, after having purchased them last fall.

Sounds familiar...

[JavaBasedOS (1217930)]

Didn't they try this with the Live Search Club [live.com]?

Following a trend

[transporter_ii (986545)]

Sell xboxes at a loss, pay people to search; the next thing you know, they will be paying vendors to put a stripped down version of XP onto mini-notebooks. In Google's case, they could afford to fork over some money to searchers, too. But Linux couldn't compete if it had to pay the vendors. So that's how MS competes with free and/or better stuff, buy them off.

Re:

[wal9001 (1041058)]

They should just cut to the chase and pay google to redirect some percent of users to MSN search results.

Re:Following a trend

[NMerriam (15122)]

So that's how MS competes with free

Yeah, a few years ago this was only a joke.

"Open Source software doesn't cost anything -- how can you beat that price?"
"Well, we could pay people to use it."
"But then how do you make any money?"
"We make it up in volume!"

Re:Following a trend

[pembo13 (770295)]

I am actually surprised that Linux machines don't cost more than equivalent Windows machines, for two reasons: Windows machines are often subsidized by software that is added on by the OEM. Additionally, I believe that a machine with a working Linux setup is of more value than a working Windows machine.

Great

[panaceaa (205396)]

Now there's actually an incentive for Live search to return worthless results! 'Cause if they found anything worthwhile, it costs Microsoft money. Genius!

Things are different than this

[Whuffo (1043790)]

Microsoft is still working on a way to take Yahoo! over. Carl Icann is working to replace the Yahoo! board of directors as we speak.

So, assuming that the story is true - how, exactly, does Microsoft propose to pay people for searching / purchasing. Is this "pay" going to come in the mail as a check, or is it going to be a discount on purchases - or is it going to be a promise to pay you somehow sometime in the future?

I'm tempted to say something about "trust" and "Microsoft" here, but am wary of the Microsoft lovers out there just waiting to down-mod this post.

Re:

[Dripdry (1062282)]

"Microsoft" and "trust"? I thought it was "Microsoft" and "anti-trust".

Re:Things are different than this

[Eco-Mono (978899)]

Which vowel of poverty? There are two (three if you count the 'y'.)

How much MSFT cash will I get for...

[bobdotorg (598873)]

... buying Yahoo stock?

A linux distribution / service contract?

A copy of OSX on a shiny new MacBookAir?

A throwproof chair?

It's worked so well in the past

[randmcnatt (1236446)]

Maybe iwon.com and search.msn.com can battle it out for 2,174th place [alexa.com].

Most of you aren't really getting the point.

[BlueStile (1257910)]

Out of all the searches that occur, a small handful are the true moneymakers. When you search Google for "British prime ministers" the resulting ads are not very profitable to them. In fact, some searches are so unprofitable and clearly just information seeking, that Google will not even display ads at all.

The important searches are things like "Best Digital Camera," "Kelly Blue Book BMW 325i," "The Da Vinci Code," and so on. These are searches that are very likely to result in a sale.

What MSFT is doing doesn't seem that innovative because it's so obvious - but no one is doing it.

Think of club promotors on sidewalks in NYC or Vegas or whatever. Typical entry is let's say cover of $10. But if you take a stupid little card from someone advertising the club, maybe that gets you free entry. Why? No reason, you aren't special, just you happened to pick up the advertisement. The club is paying the promotor to offer you a discount, so that you eventually buy the real product (drinks at the club, or whatnot).

So if the marginal profit on a $400 digital camera is about (total guess) $150 bucks, and MSFT only demands the advertiser pay a cost per action, then that's $150 dollars of value that can be shared by a) Sony/Canon/whoever, b) Microsoft, and c) the USER!

The point here is that it doesn't even matter if Google offers better search now! Going forward, I'll probably product search/research on Google, but go over to Microsoft to make the all-important final decision (because it's plainly the rational decision - my product WILL be cheaper)!

If people pay attention, instead of throwing it out the window, this could be a gamechanger - it isn't the same as BigWallet, which essentially just shared the already offered referral deals with you (half a percent of the sale, usually). This could be a significant deal for everyone involved. Cost per action payment is the key.

Re:Most of you aren't really getting the point.

[aleph42 (1082389)]

So if the marginal profit on a $400 digital camera is about (total guess) $150 bucks, and MSFT only demands the advertiser pay a cost per action, then that's $150 dollars of value that can be shared by a) Sony/Canon/whoever, b) Microsoft, and c) the USER!

The point here is that it doesn't even matter if Google offers better search now! Going forward, I'll probably product search/research on Google, but go over to Microsoft to make the all-important final decision (because it's plainly the rational decision - my product WILL be cheaper)!

This probably won't work; the camera would have to be advertised on micorsoft's search for this; and if it is, it will probably be more expensive than from the shop you found from google's search, which already refunds money from google, in the sense that the company didn't pay for that link. Google is effectively refunding 100% of it's margin on that link, since it is not advertisment!

You are confusing search results and advertisments near the search results; microsoft is saying it will offer better advertisments; but no one chooses where to shop, or what newspaper to read, for the advertisments! In that case you would just head to a discount hunting website.

No, you choose your search engine based on the better results, and then, you don't mind that the website profit from the 1% of attention you have to spare to look at an ad. Ads make money when you don't mind to shop without really comparing anything.

it isn't the same as BigWallet, which essentially just shared the already offered referral deals with you (half a percent of the sale, usually).

Who said that this rebate to microsoft's users will be more than half a percent? Did the guys who got paid to surf the internet with extra ads make a lot of money?

Re:Most of you aren't really getting the point.

[R3d M3rcury (871886)]

Not a bad idea, until you see how it works.

You're not getting a discount. You're getting a rebate. So you're still paying the full price, it's just that you'll get some money back at some point in the future--60 days [wired.com], to be precise.

Let me take a stab at this....

[zappepcs (820751)]

The marketingdroids will call this the ... wait

MicroSoft PayYou! Search Service?

You can't trust this....

[MLease (652529)]

How do they expect me to buy into this, when I've yet to get paid for all those emails I forwarded for Microsoft's testing!

-Mike

Man.....

[IHC Navistar (967161)]

Desperation is a stinky cologne.

why not make a good product and sell it?

[acvh (120205)]

seriously. Microsoft is a software company. What is the reason for their obsession with the search and advertising market? Last time I looked they are making money. Is it just because they want to take revenue away from Google?

I know, corporations exist to make money. But they don't have to go so far from their core competency (spare us the snarky comments) to do it. My heating oil provider doesn't have an internet search engine. My insurance company isn't creating web 2.0 video applications. Stick with what you're good at.

Re:why not make a good product and sell it?

[LordLucless (582312)]

Stick with what you're good at.

There's not much money in chair-throwing these days.

Re:

[Tangamandapiano (1087091)]

Stick with what you're good at.

What?

When you have $30 billion in the bank

[patio11 (857072)]

... you can afford to do two, nay, three things at once!

Seriously though -- Microsoft is close to saturation of their two big moneymakers, Windows and Office, throughout the Western world. They can continue milking them for years via the upgrade cycle and expanding the share elsewhere, and they will, but just doing that doesn't put up the big numbers. So they're going to constantly try going after new markets and, eventually they think, they're going to succeed big in one. Like, "What do you mean Apple Computers makes MP3 players?! They're a computer company!" big.

And then they're going to take that success and do exactly what Apple did with the iPod -- tie it straight back into The Empire, and make megabucks. iTunes is already just a marketing expense to sell iPods and iPods are eventually going to be just a PR campaign to sell Macs which happens to generate a few dollars on the side.

And if this idea, or the XBox, or MSN, or the Zune, or that new touch screen table, or a thousand ideas fail -- so what? They've got $30 billion in the bank, patience, and a certain bit of maniacal efficiency in their favor. Sooner or later, they'll find their iPod.

Firefox plugin on the way...

[whereiswaldo (459052)]

I wonder, how long till someone writes a Firefox plugin that alters Google search results to make clicks appear as if they are from Microsoft's search - that way users can use the better search engine and still cash in.

Jellyfish

[93 Escort Wagon (326346)]

Microsoft bought Jellyfish, and this is exactly the sort of thing Jellyfish does - but I can't see how this will help Microsoft's search efforts at all. I have a Jellyfish account; but the only time I go there is when I'm looking for the best deal on something I'd already decided to buy. If I want to search for something, I use the engine that gives me the best results - and that's Google. I'm not going to switch search engines just because MS (or anyone for that matter) says "hey, use our search - and if you click on one of the ads that comes up, and buy something, we'll give you a small amount of money!"

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

I was actually thinking that this is exactly the reason MS bought Jellyfish in the first place. Once the sale was final, things started to change at JF, and not for the better. For example, everyone with a JF account who wants to even look at their past cash back history or buy anything to receive cash back has to sign up for a Live account.

So, yes, that's exactly what this is - MS buying a company, using their process to their own ends, then never mentioning that the Live "cashback" will most likely be p

Objective

[mqduck (232646)]

Back in the last related story, lots of people were asking what kind of capital (in not so many words) Microsoft would gain by purchasing Yahoo or a part of it. This story should remind those people of the answer to their question.

Microsoft is not thinking about income in any sort of immediate sense. Microsoft, from the very beginning, has made sure to have a central presence in whatever the center of PC technology is at any given time. This is a continuation of what Microsoft has done/been since it's origin, not a case of looking for immediate revenue.

Living outside USA

[NewsWatcher (450241)]

It says in the article this cash back will only be for people in the USA. It is a shame.
If I (in New Zealand) wanted to buy say, an iPod, I could be convinced to click on a Microsoft-affiliated retailer if I thought I would get a decent discount, considering they cost roughly the same everywhere.
But how would Microsoft know I am living overseas, if I just use a Paypal account? Can anyone think of how I could circumvent this ban?

Re:

[MyLongNickName (822545)]

Be honest... are you stoned right now?

Re:DO IT! DO IT! Do It 'til You're SATISFIED...

[Uncle Focker (1277658)]

Yes. Steve Ballmer. He also throw a chair at me.

Re:DO IT! DO IT! Do It 'til You're SATISFIED...

[junner518 (1235322)]

don't worry, there are people throwing stuff at ballmer too... he got egged [youtube.com]

Re:

[maxume (22995)]

Only ~$90 billion in market cap to go. Of course, Microsoft has just over 3x Google's $18 billion in revenue, so buying Microsoft would destroy the current price multiple on shares of Google.

Re:microsoft's real solution to its search blues:

[Darkness404 (1287218)]

It might be a bad deal for Google though... MS is like the Titanic, big, and seemingly strong, however while the band is still playing it is sinking. MS has lost most if not all respect in the "real" IT world (AKA those of us who are not coding in Visual Basic) for a company that can innovate or produce stable products. Google on the other hand is going steadily up, and spending too much money to buy MS is just a bad idea, they might make some quick cash out of it, but other then that MS is a sinking ship.

Re:

[Petrushka (815171)]

Yes, but it wasn't a partner search engine. They were using their online store to leverage their own search engine, a9.com.

Re:

[zienth (890583)]

Yes, if you used Alexa or something, you got a half-pi discount.

You got a 1.5707963267949... discount?