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Stephen Hawking Turned Down Knighthood
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Sat Jun 21, 2008 08:08 AM
from the camelot-is-a-silly-place dept.
from the camelot-is-a-silly-place dept.
schliz writes "Professor Stephen Hawking has revealed that he turned down the offer of a knighthood over 10 years ago. The scientist has released correspondence showing that he was approached with the offer of a knighthood but refused it on principle. Professor Hawking has also revealed correspondence showing harsh criticism of what he sees as the UK government's mismanagement of science funding. He is particularly critical of the merger of the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council and the Council for the Central Laboratory of the Research Councils."
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What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
Lots of women? The ability to do +2 damage? What's the deal and why would someone want it?
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
I find it particularly interesting, as I'd backed a Downing Street petition [pm.gov.uk] to get Prof. Hawking Knighted - and the Government response was:
To be fair, as one of the best scientific minds of his generation, it's typically British to ignore him during his lifetime - give it 200 years or so after his death before it'll be realized how important he was.
Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Only he wasn't ignored: he refused the honour.
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Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only he wasn't ignored: he refused the honour.
Having said that, it is a norm for the UK to have less focus on rewarding people like Prof. Hawking, instead focussing on a popular celebrity - a New Labour way of showing that they are 'in touch' with the populace.
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Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And good for him. I already had a lot of respect for him and now it's gone even higher. It's a wise man whose sense of self-worth isn't influenced by titles he's given.
On a slightly related topic, a friend tricked me into going to see "Superhero Movie" last week (I thought we were going to see "Hancock" when she said a spoof superhero movie). It had few enough laughs to begin with, but when they started taking the piss out of Stephen Hawking, they stopped
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again, there is a purpose to accepting such honours.
You can return them afterwards as a sign of protest, and it echoes more loudly than simply refusing them in the first place.
Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Stephen Hawking is hardly "ignored". In fact, I'm struggling to think of a physicist less ignored. He's the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge, has had a book stay on the British bestseller list for 5 years, and has been the subject of numerous documentaries, to name a few. If he's as well appreciated 200 years after his death as he is during his life, then he'll have been proved important.
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Re: (Score:2)
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Informative)
> In fact I have trouble thinking of an example that fits your claim. Basically the key to British (and most) fame is to be famous in your lifetime first.
What about Alan Turing? Of course he is still much better received abroad than in his own country, but he is a perfect example of an unrecognised genius. He was used to win the war, and then dumped like a hot potato.
Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
A good example, but it seems the exception. The British are usually ready to laud anyone they can. Turing was generally turned away because of his homosexuality and a suspicion that he might be Communist.
Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:4, Insightful)
- He was
: - used to win the war;
- accounted a security risk due to his being an unapologetic homosexual;
- chemically castrated under order of the courts (the alternative being jail);
- he started to grow breasts as a result of the "chemical castration" (a large dose of progesterone IIRC)
; - he started to lose control of his thinking and reasoning capabilities;
- only then was his "dumping like a hot potato" getting properly into gear, so he decided on suicide as being his best option.
If, of course, it was suicide.Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it's an honor. It's recognition, which is nice, but which Hawking doesn't exactly need more of.
If Wayne Gretsky was denied membership in the Hockey Hall of Fame, it wouldn't diminish his stature one bit. He might be annoyed at not being inducted, but in truth it's the Hall of Fame that is diminished. If he had a reason to refuse membership, he could do so, knowing of course that he'd effectively have to be in it, because players of the era couldn't be honored without mentioning him.
As far as women are concerned, apparently Einstein had plenty of 'em, and he wasn't exactly physically attractive. I'm sure that if Hawking's equipment is functional, he could use it on a different woman every day if he wanted to. So he doesn't get more women, no. But a lesser luminary might. Consider if you are introduced to a woman as "Dr. So and So, who is a physicist" as opposed to "Sir So and So, the physicist." To the degree being a physicist might move you towards home base (or whatever the cricket equivalent is), I'd imagine the knighthood might get you a bit farther.
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Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
You get to move one space to the left or right whenever you walk forward.
The chicks love it.
Parent
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
His wheelchair will now be able to strafe.
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You want some Knighthoood? (Score:5, Funny)
(robot voice)"No, you can keep it. I will not risk valorous death for someone who mismanages the government funding of my chosen profession.
"No, you don't understand..."
(loud robot voice)"I SAID KEEP IT!"
Re:You want some Knighthoood? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought knighthoods were handed out by the monarch as special recognition of one's accomplishments. It's the queen's way of saying thanks for being such an outstanding citizen. If you have a beef with the prime minister(s) and their budgeting priority that's not the queen's fault. Seems rather rude to slap her thanks down for something she's not in charge of.
Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Funny)
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Informative response... (Score:3, Funny)
Bet this doesn't get modded up, but here goes:
In 1865 the holder of the Christ Church Mathematical Lectureship, one Charles Dodgson, published an amazing childrens book, 'Alice in Wonderland' under the pen name of Lewis Caroll.
The book was a great success, and Queen Victoria was one of his fans. Greatly appreciative, she arranged for an audience with 'Caroll', and insisted that she be provided with a copy of the next book this author would write.
Imagine her surprise when, next year, she was sent a copy of a
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Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:4, Informative)
Its the govt who decide who gets "honored". The monarch is pretty much just the person who makes the announcement. So, Hawking's "slap" was fairly squarely aimed at Blair and co.
Regarding who honors actually get dished out to, y'know the Darling brothers - Codemasters founders - got honored just recently? Its really not just celebs, musicians and sporty types.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/06/18/codemasters-founders-honored-by-queen-of-england [arstechnica.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
John Lennon's rejection when je was with the Beatles realy hutr the prestige.
So now they ask diplomatically. Steven Hawkins deserves the maximum recognition in the UK but it's great that he doesn't need one from the Queen.
Reading comprehension (Score:5, Informative)
It looks to me as though you're confusing two parts of the article. It's actually talking about two sets of correspondence, one about the knighthood and one about funding disputes. On the knighthood, it says:
So he turned the knighthood down because he dislikes knighthood in principle. That seems like a reasonable position, and a willingness to turn down personal advancement on a matter of principle seems like an honorable decision. The arguments about funding were a separate issue and, apparently, one that came about some time after he turned down the knighthood.
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So, yes. The knighthoods are handed out by the monarch, but that's just a legal fiction. They're actually decided upon by the government of the day.
He would always be welcome here (Score:2)
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/ [perimeterinstitute.ca]
They just recently snagged Dr. Neil Turok from Cambridge to serve as the the executive Director - it looks like we will soon have all of England's great physicists
The RIM founder just kicked in another $50 Mil to his pet project:
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/News/In_The_Media/Mike_Lazaridis_Donates_Additional_$50_Million_to_Perimeter_Institute/ [perimeterinstitute.ca]
I would love to see Dr. Hawking at their monthly public outreach lectures.
I hate when that happens (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I hate when that happens (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Good for him (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Much wisdom in that ravaged body.
Parent
Re:Good for him (Score:5, Informative)
It is not all advertising. He quietly refused the title ten years ago and this is the first we've heard of it as far as I'm aware. Everything points to this being a point of principle for him, not a means of gaining publicity. I guess you've shown that it sometimes is possible to be too cynical after all.
Parent
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Re:Good for him (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to get permission from a queeen before calling someone Sir?
No, you can call anyone "Sir", but only the Queen can make it mean anything.
It's tradition, you know? Although monarchies are now a thing of the past, it was still the only form of government that allowed Europe to survive the endless petty battles and feuds between regional warlords. That constant feuding would have kept us in the dark ages. The concept of the monarch as the overlord with the biggest army (and artillery!) to keep everyone in line brought peace to the lands (and at least confined war to overseas where other people's countries/crops/towns/culture got destroyed instead). That way civilization could begin to flourish.
Parent
Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Monarchs weren't even decent domestic governors. You can thank Ferdinand and Isabella for the Spanish Inquisition, which set back Spain by hundreds of years. Speaking of the Church, lots and lots of European monarchs were only too happy to waste untold resources and let untold numbers of their citizens die fighting stupid Crusades to "take back" Jerusalem, or kill the wicked Cathar heretics, or what-have-you.
In fact, you didn't see things settling down and stabilizing in Europe until people began to put checks against the power of the monarchy.
Parent
Re:Good for him (Score:5, Interesting)
I was told a story about a Pharmacist in a hospital who had his name - 'Dr. Bob Smith' (example) on the door. Now, the hospital forced him to take the Dr off, despite him actually having a doctorate, unlike most of the doctors who have it on their doors in the hospital, because he wasn't a medical doctor and it'd confuse people. I, personally, think that's insane.
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Re:Good for him (Score:4, Informative)
Depends on the country. In the US (and in Canada, I'm pretty sure) the degree which allows you to practice medicine is indeed a doctorate (MD or DO.) I understand that in Britain it's actually a bachelor's degree (BM) and that MD is a title you only get if you do additional research work; the US equivalent is MD/PhD. But in any case, it is a shame that the work "doctor" is so inextricably associated with medicine is most people's minds. Medical doctors have to work very hard to earn their title; so do other kinds of doctors, and all of them should be recognized for it. If you need to make the precise distinction, the right word to use is "physician."
My grandfather, a retired professor of literature (with a PhD, of course) has a number of health problems and often has to call up new hospitals or specialty practices. He always leads the conversation with, "This is Dr. Hardy ..." Amazing how much red tape that can cut through.
Parent
That's a COVER STORY! (Score:4, Funny)
The truth is that he has fallen out of favour with the government since Torchwood uncovered evidence that he is working with Davros [b3ta.com].
Personally, I think the government shouldn't be in the business of giving out meaningless awards and I would refuse one on that basis.
How? (Score:3, Funny)
I can see the problem at the ceremony now:
Queen: "Arise Sir Hawking. Errmmmmm".
It is perfectly understandable (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of people are refusing knighthoods, because association with our tired, old absurd Imperial rituals is more of a detriment than a benefit to someone who is already famous in their own right.
The people who tend to accept them are the ones whose careers are on the slide anyway.
Re:Ixnay on the Itlestay (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Ixnay on the Itlestay (Score:5, Insightful)
In America, if you're capable of learning, you're supposed to hide the fact. Demonstrating the capacity to learn is guaranteed to get to ridiculed for being a "flip-flopper". It's considered a sign of strength and character to never change you mind no matter what you learn or how circumstances change. :p
Parent
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himself, the speech synth, and the wheel chair onto the horse's back. He would be a knight after all. I didn't even get to the part of how he could hold the lance.
This is so trollish that I should ignore it, but I should note that I work with a group of speech-language pathologists, occupational therapists and rehabilitation engineers who would have loved the challenge and it is almost certainly possible to do.
Google "hippotherapy." Creating such a mounting system wouldn't be a completely useless endeavor.
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Not really. He did not claim he refused the knighthood to live the life of a recluse. He just doesn't like titles (and I suspect especially titles related to monarchy). Lenon did the same. If more people follow his example, the value of a knighthood will be diminished (and that's not hypocritical, cos he does not believe the knighthood should have a value)
Re:He is using his knighthood (Score:4, Insightful)
That may have been true if he had done so AT THE TIME. Hawking SILENTLY rejected the knighthood many years ago, but OTHER people have been calling for him to be knighted every year. These constant requests from the public ultimately led to Hawking choosing to end the suspense by just saying that it was HIS OWN decision not to be knighted many years ago and that they can stop pestering the UK government about it.
Parent