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Jail 'Greedy' Scam Victims, Says Nigerian Diplomat
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Aug 21, 2008 09:42 PM
from the chutzpahgall dept.
from the chutzpahgall dept.
AcidAUS writes with this nearly unbelievable snippet from today's Sydney Morning Herald: "The Nigerian high commissioner in Australia says people who are ripped off by so-called Nigerian scams are just as guilty as the fraudsters and should be jailed. Responding to a story in yesterday's Herald, which revealed Australians lose at least $36 million a year to the online scams, Sunday Olu Agbi said Australians had failed to heed repeated warnings not to deal with shady characters on the internet."
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dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are dumb enough to fall for one of the oldest fraud methods in existence, you deserve to lose you money, but not your freedom.
I just got an email about this! (Score:5, Funny)
Nigerian High Commissioner Olu Agbi said if I don't send him $1,000 by Western Union in the next 24 hours that he'll throw me in jail!
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Text of email (Score:5, Funny)
dont know if it's tru? forwarding just incase! love to everyone!
>>> Nverian Hig h Commisioner Ololu Ogelvi warned all RED BLOODED AMERICAN PATRIOTS
>>> that if they don't send him $1,000 by Western Union in the next 24 hours that he
>>> will kill a kitt
>>> en.
>> Thx Maude! I just sent t>
>> his to everyone on my ma
>> iling list! Why does
>>> PLEASE SUPPORT OUR TROPS IN WESTERIA
>>> FORWARDING THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE
>>> YOU KNOW!!111!1!!!1!
>>> GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know if it's as clear cut as that. Typically the victims of this scam agree to break the law in some way, in some cases to participate in committing a massive financial fraud. Kind of like those guys who sell crappy speakers dressed up as the expensive ones, and justify the low price by hinting that they are stolen. If the speakers were in fact stolen people would be breaking the law by buying them, so why is it different if they just believe that they are stolen?
No, I don't really think these poor suckers should go to jail, I just don't think it's unbelievable to even suggest that, as the summary says.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, they're very lucky. If the scam wasn't a scam they'd be rotting away in some Nigerian jail for money laundering or fraud. Instead, all they lost was money.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Interesting)
If the speakers were in fact stolen people would be breaking the law by buying them, so why is it different if they just believe that they are stolen?
Um.. it's different because they aren't actually breaking the law.
Similarly, if you're driving 25 MPH in a 35 zone but you believe you're going 45, you aren't speeding. And if you break into a house, but it turns out to be your own house, you aren't trespassing.
Arrest the real criminals, not people who mistakenly think they're criminals.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Informative)
In one version, the scammer poses as a government worker who has embezzled millions of dollars and is offering victims a percentage if they help retrieve the money by providing a relatively small amount of money for bribes or other charges. Professor Olu Agbi said "greedy" Australians who tried to partake in these crimes - even though they are scams - should be arrested as well.
In this context I'd agree with him. They got what they deserved. But of course these are only a subset of all of the nigerian scams out there.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Funny)
Way too many stupid people think they can try to work those deals...
Whatever. As long as whoever comes out ahead with the money classifies it as 'Illegal Income' when filing his/her tax returns at the end of the year, I'm fine with whatever. The one thing I can't *stand* is tax evaders!
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just dumb people. It's your mom or dad, if they wind up with some kind of aging-related disease that affects their judgement. Or you, in a few years. Losing everything because of that is a pretty harsh outcome.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Funny)
A fool and his money are soon parted...
That'd make a good slogan:
"Nigeria... parting fools from their money since 1992"
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure that Nigerian scams [and its variants] existed before 1992.
The internet just made it a lot more visible.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Informative)
I'm pretty sure that Nigerian scams [and its variants] existed before 1992.
The internet just made it a lot more visible.
This is true. In fact, it was a pretty common fax-scam in the 80's - and probably came in many other forms too.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Informative)
#1) A $3500 cheque with your name on it arrives in the mail. That evening you receive a phone call saying that it was an accident and could you wire back the money, but you can keep $500 for your troubles. So you deposit the cheque and wait a week for it to clear and then send $3000 to the scammer. When a cheque has "cleared" (when money appears in your account) it's not necessarily all done and legit -- the bank can revoke that money for weeks after. So 3 weeks later the bank realises that the cheque was illegitimate and they pull $3500 out of your account so you're down $3000 which has gone to the scammer.
#2) Door to door people from the gas company asking to see gas bills because of a printing error. They might have id and a clipboard and a nice tie, and they might have gotten your name from letters in your letter box. They take down some notes about the bill and perhaps even ask you for id and later they perform some identity theft crime.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Informative)
Just so that I don't make people paranoid here's how to respond to these two scenarios:
Re #1) Don't deposit or cash the cheque. You may be stung by the bank for fees related to the illegitimate cheque.
Re #2) You should respond to these people to verify who they are by phoning the gas company. Alternatively say that you're going to get the bill and tell them to wait at the door as you close it in their face and go crack open a beer.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
In general there is a really simple rule to protect yourself from scams: If you did not initiate the transaction it is with high probability a scam.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
I just don't get how people are stupid enough to fall for #1. A check is just a piece of paper until it's cashed. Offer to void it and send it back to them through the mail. If they refuse, they're obviously shady, so just hang up. I guess it's the same reason people fall for all scams: they let their greed get in the way of their common sense.
#2 is a little more understandable since people tend to trust people in uniform, but giving anyone the kind of information they would need to steal your identity is just foolish unless you initiated the interaction yourself (say, by calling the gas company directly).
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Interesting)
A better scam that's similar to #1 is one of the work from home scams. You sign up for a work from home service and they set up direct deposit for you. Before you even start working, you notice they already deposited $3500. They tell you it's a mistake and have you wire $3000 of it back out but let you keep $500 as your first paycheck. Your work from home profession? A money launderer. The bank will take all $3500 back out and you can explain to law enforcement why money illegally wired from another account ended up in your account and then went overseas. If you paid attention, you'd notice that the account sending in money was not the same one as the account you wired money to.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Funny)
"It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money." - Canada Bill Jones, 19th century poker player
:D
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
A fool and his money are best parted, because the last thing you want in this world are fools with economic power.
--jeffk++
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but having leeches who live off of others and don't mind wrecking a stranger's life isn't any better.
Someone willing to cheat a fool is probably willing to cheat you too, and there are plenty of fools in positions that will let them do it.
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Funny)
I'm afraid that the scammers have gotten craftier than that - I understand that they're relating to the Aussies very well. The latest one that I had forwarded to me read:
" G'day mate! I were just out in me back yard throwing another dingo on the barbie and bruising up a warm lager when I happened on a smattering of GOLD! Now me and me sheila aren't exactly the rightful owners of this here parcel, but we managed to shift the yellow off onto a friendly bugger who handed over a check. All we need is a good buddy to shift the funds around, take a princely cut for 'imself, and PayPal us the balance.
Whaddaya say, mate? Are we chummy? "
[Sorry to all the real Australians out there - I'm in the US and only speak American. The only Australian that I know I learned from Crocodile Dundee, Yahoo Serious, and the Crocodile Hunter. (But I do have the good sense not to throw a dingo on my barbie).]
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Informative)
Some corrections for you though, so that next time you can REALLY sound like an Aussie.
* Obviously you quite tastefully combined the "dingo ate my baby" and "shrimp on the barbie", but I'll point out that most Australians call it a "prawn", and I personally don't know ANYONE who barbecues them.
* Australians drink lager cold (except the weird ones...) I believe the stereotype is that the British drink it warm, but I don't know if that's true. One of my Brit friends told me it was "bollocks".
* Australians (for the most part) follow British English conventions, so it's "cheque", not "check".
The rest is bonza
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Re:dumb people lose money, not freedom (Score:5, Insightful)
2: Making a habit out of something is irrelevant. In fact, a person's history of criminality is inadmissible as evidence for or against them (thanks to the Constitution, I think). It may be used in determining their punishment if convicted, but not in determining their guilt. Only evidence relating to their current trial is admissible for that. That said, records of their communications directly related to the current trial are most certainly admissible, and the police would no doubt get a warrant to obtain that obvious source of information.
As far as their attempted fraudulent financial transactions...
...they are illegal. Look up "fraud".
I dunno, IANAL
No kidding... neither am, I but this is pretty basic stuff here. How does something like that earn +5 insightful??
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Well said... (Score:5, Insightful)
"It's hard to con an honest man."
Re:Well said... (Score:5, Funny)
"It's hard to con an honest man."
In the words of Terry Pratchett:
There is a saying - "You can't fool an honest man" - which is much quoted by people who make a profitable living by fooling honest men.
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Re:Well said... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd say it isn't. I was scammed into helping what I thought was a stranded student who'd got his wallet stolen and needed some cash to go home to a far suburb. It was early in my life working downtown, and I believed the guy. I was totally fooled.
How did I know this? Three weeks later, i saw the same kid walking around doing the exact same thing soliciting help for cash, only a few blocks away from where I gave him ten bucks. Motherfucker, I thought.
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Re:Well said... (Score:5, Interesting)
True that! I had a friend in San Francisco offer a homeless man $15/hr to come in and paint his apartment - he declined saying he could make more on the street corner. That attitude is exactly why I never dole out cash to pan handlers, though perhaps will offer a morsel of food on occasion.
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Just to be clear... (Score:5, Informative)
Since the summary doesn't make this clear and I'm sure plenty of people won't RTFA, the good professor is referring to jailing those people who fall for scams in which they believe they are aiding embezzlers in order to get rich. It'll never happen of course, but it's not that unreasonable either really.
Somehow being a greedy criminal is OK as long as you're dumb enough to wind up as the victim in the attempt.
Re:Just to be clear... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but the victims are innocent until proven guilty. They haven't _yet_ undertaken anything criminal, just arguably shown intent. I don't want to be a stickler, but that means they get the benefit of the doubt.
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Re:Just to be clear... (Score:5, Informative)
It really depends on which scam you fall victim to.
Take this case of a hapless drug addict who called the cops after she was sold fake cocaine. They arrested her on drug charges despite the lack of any real cocaine.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293112,00.html [foxnews.com]
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Gday (Score:5, Funny)
iReal? (Score:5, Funny)
The very idea that a real flesh-and-blood Nigerian diplomat actually exists feels so strange. It would be like meeting the real Duke Nukem.
Fraud is fraud. (Score:5, Informative)
This is simply an argument to try to divert blame. I don't really care that the other side is a willing victim. Fraud is fraud, and I have a hard time believing that the Nigerian goverment is really doing all that much about it. Nigeria is a Kleptocracy [wikipedia.org], so corruption is endemic in the society. I'm sure a few well placed bribes keeps the cops away. It's not really that hard to find these guys after all since the money eventually has to go somewhere.
I approve (Score:5, Funny)
I approve.
-Darwin
He's deflecting Nigeria's stigma (Score:4, Insightful)
Fraud, Stupid people, and lotteries. (Score:4, Interesting)
The stupid will always be the prime target for those who will take their money. The prime candidate is, of course, government lotteries, you know, taxation for those who are lacking math skills.
Anyone who sends money to an entity that can not be properly vetted is a greedy fool.
Is that a criminal action? No. If we locked up everyone that was stupid and greedy, we wouldn't have any police, state level politicians, public school teachers, car salesmen, plumbers, electricians, car mechanics, etc.
I love this quote (Score:5, Interesting)
"It is not in the character of Nigerians to be engaged in this kind of scam."
Professor Olu Agbi said there were almost 140 million people in Nigeria and fewer than 0.1 per cent were involved.
140,000 scammers? Gee is that all? :P
Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Funny)
If only there was a big island somewhere where we could send all these idiots.
Parent
Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Funny)
If only there was a big island somewhere where we could send all these idiots.
hello i am allujabullshitname prince of nigeria. i am writing to you in the worst of health, i am afraid i may die soon, but do not worry, god is on my side. i recently have come acrsoss a islannd worth millions of american dollars an am looking for a governnment to deposit tyhe land masses.
this millions of dollars of land is perfect to send all sorts of idiots, but i am afraid that i am to lose it soon, as there are those who conspire against me. but i am not afraid, for the lord will protect me.
please send me your account so i can deposit..
Oh, what the hell.. I actually don't know enough about international property law to know what kind of system you'd deposit land rights into anyway.
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Funny)
No, America got the puritans, we got the criminals.
Come to think of it, I think we got the better deal.
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, it's not as easy as it looks. What with all the hopping around and all.
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually they provide a significant form of revenue. Whoever came up with the lottery was a genius!
"Today we are announcing a state tax on stupi... er, a state lottery!"
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Interesting)
I am somewhat sympathetic to your argument, but I don't buy it. It can be entirely reasonable to play the lottery, though not very regularly.
Let's say that once a month you get a Powerball ticket with Powerplay, costing (according to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]) $2. You do this for 50 years. (In other words, you play the lottery starting when you are 20 until you're 70.)
According to this [moneychimp.com] compound interest calculator, if you aggressively invested that money instead and got 10% annual return for that timespan (probably entirely ridiculous), at the end of that you'd have $30,727. If we were to assume an already-optimistic 7% rate of return, that's only $10,500.
If you were to play every other month (or not get powerplay) and get 10%, you're at $15,500, and at 7%, $5,200.
In addition, you're not really going to be out all that money... on average, Wikipedia says the powerball has about a 50% rate of return. Which means that the $15,500 and $5,200 numbers are actually more realistic if you pay $2/mth.
While it's not exactly a shabby sum, it's also not that much money if you've been wise with other investments. Giving up that amount of money is probably not really going to change your lifestyle. You might lose out on a couple vacations you could take when retired or something. (If we are even a little more conservative with how much we spend on the lottery... you play for 40 years instead of 50, spending $1/mth but getting back half, and could get 7% otherwise, you're looking at $1,200. That's barely enough for one "fancy" vacation.)
Now, at the same time, in the very very remote chance you were to actually win a jackpot, your life would change. If you won even a million dollars -- let alone tens of millions -- you might be able to retire now (depending on how old you are), go buy a farm, do almost anything you want monitarily.
It is not unreasonable to say "I'll take one less vacation when I'm 70 in exchange for an almost-zero-but-not-quite chance of a totally life-changing event."
(The fact that a lot of lottery winnings result in people blowing through the winnings quickly, sometimes result in failed families or other bad effects, or that a lot of people don't play the lottery this way and actually put significant money into it is beside the point that playing the lottery isn't necessarily an irrational move.)
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Re:I guess this has some merit... (Score:5, Funny)
If all the stupid people are put in jail, then it's gonna be very lonely out here.
What makes you think you'd be out here?
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Re:You can't jail people for stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
RTFA. He isn't suggesting people be jailed for stupidity, he's suggesting they be jailed for willingly aiding in a crime (or at least believing they are).
It's articles like this where the summary has completely missed the point that really highlights just how bad slashdotters are when it comes to reading articles. TFA is short and clear about the what the man was really suggesting and yet already some 90% of (non-joke) comments are about how stupidity isn't a crime.
And shame on the slashdot editor who posted this. I can't believe anyone could miss the point of the article so badly, so either he didn't read it or he deliberately went with a misleading summary for the extra "outrage" comments.
I'll post the pertinent bit here to save everyone the terrible inconvenience of clicking the article link:
In one version, the scammer poses as a government worker who has embezzled millions of dollars and is offering victims a percentage if they help retrieve the money by providing a relatively small amount of money for bribes or other charges.
Professor Olu Agbi said "greedy" Australians who tried to partake in these crimes - even though they are scams - should be arrested as well.
"People who send their money are as guilty as those who are asking them to send the money," he said.
Not so outrageous now is it?
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Re:I Will Be Rich in a Few Weeks (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:This is offensive. Stupidity is not a crime. (Score:4, Interesting)
"How is this any different to saying that a girl that goes into a rough neighbourhood in a mini-skirt and is raped should also be jailed?"
TFA:
Wearing a mini-skirt is not illegal. International money laundering and bribing foreign officials are both illegal. There is the difference.
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