Slashdot Log In
BBC Brings DRM-Free Content To Linux Users
Posted by
timothy
on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:08 PM
from the gnu-linux dept.
from the gnu-linux dept.
eldavojohn writes "The BBC is planning to release some of its programmes to users of GNU & Linux. You won't see Doctor Who or Dragons' Den on there anytime soon, but they have been working with Canonical & Collabora on getting this out there for Totem users. The developer blog mentions that the sheer number of options in the open source world actually makes this difficult to accomplish."
Related Stories
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
I hope they made the freedom choice. (Score:4, Insightful)
Multiplicity of platform is not a problem for free software, so I'm confused. Every distro is able to use xorg, for example, and people who want to help out go there not to a distribution. If BBC releases free software, everyone else will be able to use it. It's nice of them to dive deeper, but if the backend work to totem is free, I expect it to turn up in my favorite distribution soon. They seem to understand this:
The question then, is why they worked with a specific distro rather than upstream. The Totem plugin says it uses Dirac, that's cool.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This news is a pleasant surprise and I hope more media outlets catch on, but the article makes it clear that it does take a lot of work to make it happen:
Lots of this work involved changes to the underlying infrastructure of Gstreamer, as well as developing the plugin for Totem.
That sounds unfortunate, because most people perceive something as ubiquitous as streaming media to be a given, so the complexity of making it Just Work(tm) sounds intimidating. It's bad for Linux desktop adopt
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
TFA said that other distros will be worked on. They chose to start with Ubuntu as it appears to be the most popular desktop(Joe user) distro.
Joe the User supports Microsoft, even though his current computer and the computer he's thinking of buying would benefit more from Ubuntu. :p
Re: (Score:2)
Please stay on topic, do not derail good threads, and save the paranoid vitriol for the Windows articles, please. Yes, I know who you are.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing is, when people are faced with more than two choices, they tend to panic and dither and get put off. It's surely a bug in the way the human mind is designed, but given that the original maintainer seems to have gone quiet for a while, I don't think a patch will be forthcoming. So we have to work around the bug. One way to do that is to reduce the number of choices that have to be made, or at least, as the Python folk say, 'There should be one obvious way to do it'. Even if what you end up with
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Tell me about it. Should I use the BBC, or should I just stick to getting my fix of British culture off bittorrent sites...
Yeah, too confusing. I'm going to stick to torrents. No one ever told me that they had to erect barriers around me in the name of other peoples 'interests' on a torrent site.
Re: (Score:2)
what is so hard about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
h.264 video, AAC/AC3 audio tracks, in an MPEG4 container. It'll play on almost anything modern.
Announce new content via RSS feeds.
Distribute it via BitTorrent and allow the consumers to foot the bandwidth bill for distribution.
Until it is this simple and straightforward, you're doing it wrong, BBC.
Re:what is so hard about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
It's might still be CPU intensive today. But not next year.
Moore law works on CPU, and I am confident that 1080p will still stand for at least one decade. (DVD quality already did, right?)
Re:what is so hard about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's might still be CPU intensive today. But not next year.
But if you have 84 million of today's devices in the field, you can't easily replace them all next year. Heck, some devices barely manage to decode 256x192 pixel DivX at 12 fps because they have a 67 MHz CPU.
Re:what is so hard about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
h.264 is handled quite nicely by nearly every Apple product, many new cell phones, modern flavors of Windows and Linux, modern PC's without any additional hardware offloading. Television providers around the world are bracing to switch over to h.264 streaming and I believe some are already there. This is, effectively, the prevailing standard for broadcast quality high definition digital video.
Sure, BBC can provide a streaming option for those who prefer it. But I'd wager quite a few will opt for downloading the whole show and watching it stutter-free, which also gives them the option to keep it or discard it when done.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
this isn't about streaming, I think the GP refers to the download version. The streaming version uses flash.
Re: (Score:2)
H.264 isn't too much more CPU intensive than MPEG-4, but it's far more memory intensive. That's what makes it tough for phones.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:what is so hard about it? (Score:5, Insightful)
They are doing it wrong.
The problem is that they are trying to control the "user experience", as always. The blog doesn't actually say anything about the codecs or transport streams used. It is all about the Totem plugin that lets one browse the list of programmes on offer.
Dear BBC: Use open formats. Make it easy to get at the files or streams. You will not need to worry about the diversity found in various Linux distributions and different desktop environments - the development communities associated with the various desktops and media players will write all the user interface tools for you!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh God. The LAST thing the Linux communities need is more developers creating their own user interfaces.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What are you afraid of? That you might have to choose more than one for yourself?
Re:what is so hard about it? (Score:4, Informative)
The BBC is using open formats, protocols and systems to provide this service.
See:
http://uriplay.org/ [uriplay.org]
http://open.bbc.co.uk/rad/uriplay/availablecontent [bbc.co.uk]
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555823 [gnome.org]
The totem plugin's implemented in open-source python. Go play!
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they're trying to use Dirac...
BitTorrent is likely a bad idea...
But either way, I agree, I don't see the problem. I've been streaming video for years on Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
That will draw major criticism from the "free software" people (as opposed to the "open source" people), as most of those technologies are patented.
Wha? (Score:5, Insightful)
The developer blog mentions that the sheer number of options in the open source world actually makes this difficult to accomplish.
I call BS.
The diversity of options is only a problem if you try to specifically target a particular configuration. Doing so is dumb--In fact I can't think of any good reason to do so. (Hint: DRM is not a good reason.)
For instance, if you just have a link to a standard media file (e.g. mpeg) that the user can download, then you're done. The user can then use whatever browser they want, with whatever media player they want, and whatever operating system they want. The diversity of options is then the user's problem, not the distributors.
Invariably these "there are too many options to support" complaints arise because people have ulterior motives in wanting to target the OS/software/format more specifically (DRM, lockin, user tracking, advertising, promoting a particular OS/software/format, etc.).
(Note that I don't want the negative tone of my post to take anything away from the announcement. It is surely a good thing that they are working to make their shows available to us Linux users. That's great! But if they are truly going with a non-DRM solution, then why the heck don't they just skip the middleman and let everyone just download a simple file?)
difficult? HUH? (Score:3, Insightful)
Um pick a open and common streaming format and to hell with wasting time writing a client. They click on the episode name and let it stream.
Come on, this is so easy a webprogramming 101 student can do it.
Does the iplayer copyrights issue apply to news? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see how that would apply especially to any programs the BBC uses which were produced using subcontractors who usually put their copyright notices (not the BBC's) at the end of their shows. However, the BBC puts its own BBC copyright notice at the end of all of its current affairs programs such as "Panorama" and "Newsnight".
Doesn't that imply the BBC owns the copyright to the programs? If so, why doesn't it release all of them on iplayer for longer than 7 days? Programs like Newsnight and Panorama which have a lot of analysis and detailed investigative journalism can remain of interest even long after they are first broadcast. There is a demand for watching those programs much beyond 7 days. So, why the 7 days limit on these programs?
Must we use Totem? (Score:2, Interesting)
Nice first step, but I just don't like using GTK apps if I can help it, because they look out of place. The only GTK app I really make an exception for is Firefox, and thankfully that is getting a QT4 port from Nokia.
Is there any chance someone could develop a Firefox extension, or a plugin for Kaffeine, Amarok, etc?
Re: (Score:2)
Firefox, and thankfully that is getting a QT4 port from Nokia.
Will it be rebranded as firefoks? ;)
Re: (Score:2)
The QT4 branch will be supported by Mozilla and live within the Mozilla repositories.
BBC World Service (Score:4, Informative)
Would it be too much to ask to get BBC World Service in something other than WMP/Real format?
Right now, Vermont Public Radio has a transcoder that takes the Real and rebroadcasts it in streaming MP3, but even after donating to them, I still feel bad that the burden is on them to re-encode the stream.
I'd transcode the stream myself but, a) don't want to go to the trouble and b) suspect it's against their TOS anyway.
I'm sure the Beeb poured a ton of money into the Real platform years ago (to the extent that they may still be locked-in), but I'd really love to see such an important service be more accessible.
Options don't make things difficult (Score:2)
the sheer number of options in the open source world actually makes this difficult to accomplish
That's precisely why open standards and open protocols exist. Unlike the microsoft world, wherein a protocol/standard is tied to a single vendor, you wont be locking your customers whatever you choose. So stop bothering about the number of options available to your customers.
Re: (Score:2)
a true secure DRM
This is what we in the trade call "an oxymoron [reference.com]. :)
The best you can really do is obscure things as much as possible and hope that slows people down. The obvious problem there is that providing the source code doesn't help to obscure things. And if you don't provide source, about the only Linux vendor who's going to work with you is SCO, whose OpenLinux Server is not exactly flying off the shelves these days. :)
Something like TPM can help, but even there, the leading provider of TPM-based systesm (IBM) admi
Re:Little new? (Score:5, Insightful)
Encryption, yes, but with DRM, the goal is to provide decrypted data without letting the person in physical control of the machine know how to decrypt it. I can easily provide you with encrypted audio/video files and no key, but that won't be very useful to you since you won't be able to play them. If I want to allow you to listen to/view the files, I have to provide you with the key, so you can decrypt the data. But then it's no longer encrypted (by definition). My only real option at that point is to try to hide the decryption mechanism so you don't know how to apply the key to the data (and may not even know exactly where the key is), and the decryption will only happen behind the scenes, as it were. But if you have the source to the decryption tool, I haven't done a very good job of hiding the decryption mechanism.
The entire problem with DRM is that it's trying to prevent access by the same people that it's trying to grant access to. If you can't see the inherent contradiction there, I don't know how I can make it any more clear.
The most secure key system in the world doesn't help you if you need to give the decryption key to the same people that you're trying to encrypt the data against.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
This is an example of someone's own data being deliberately made inaccessible to them by rights management. It may seem trivial but if you go by the pure OSS principles being thrown around a lot here, 1 way encryption is immoral and should never be used in GPL
Re: (Score:2)
No way anybody would say that 1-way encryption (AKA hash) is immoral. But DRM is not about that, DRM is about granting access to YOU read the data, while denying access for YOU to read it. Giving access to nobody is quite easy, giving access to some specific person is a solved problem, but giving access to the same person you want to deny access can't be solved.
In related news, on Soviet Russia DRM gives YOU access to the data while it denies YOU access to it! Hey, I never tought I'd ever repeat that meme :
Re:Little new? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with DRM isn't the strength of the encryption, it's the fact that some component of the user's (presumably hostile) hardware must possess both the key and the data in order to display the DRMed content. There's no need to break any encryption when you already have the key.
A closed-source system at least has the option of obscuring the key and decrypted content inside a binary program with a draconian anti-reverse-engineering EULA (and even that doesn't work in practice). Truly open-source DRM software could be trivially modified to just dump the decrypted data to a file.
Ultimately, DRM can't possibly work unless the content provider has full control over the data path, from decryption all the way through the viewer's senses. Such control is plainly incompatible with the open-source mindset. In order to remain effective, some part of any DRM system much always remain closed to inspection and modification by the owner of the device it's running on.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, but the difference is, in those encryption mechanisms it's assumed that the attacker and the recipient aren't the same person.
Simply put, DRM is cryptographically stupid, and no amount of OSS devs will ever be able to change that.
Re:Little new? (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone needs to invest in an open source DRM mechanism.
Open source is fundamentally incompatible with DRM.
Either you have security-through-obscurity (in which case, I can just look at the source code), or you have at least some of the DRM implemented in hardware -- in which case, it's severely crippled your computer and your ability to run arbitrary software, including modified versions of the original "open source" code.
Which pretty much kills the point of open source. Look at Tivo for an example.
Not that it's stopped other people from trying...
if they were the first to create a true secure DRM format,
That is impossible. DRM, by its very nature, cannot be secured. The more "secure" you get, the closer you get to having a console or a set-top box, instead of a computer -- and it's still not secure, just that much more of a pain to crack.
they would be free to shape it in a way that is best for consumers whilst still being good for content producers.
"Best for consumers" means being able to do whatever you want with it, except pirate it. One of the things I want to be able to do with my media is use it on entirely open systems. This is a reasonable request, I think, and it is not itself piracy. However, an entirely open system would by definition make piracy possible.
And "best for content producers" generally means "not pissing off your customers".
So, the best for both parties is to abandon DRM. The content producers haven't realized this yet, and you aren't helping the situation by pretending that DRM can work.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but it is not better for the DRM provider, and this one is the party with the hightest publicitary* spendings
* Publicitary spending is composed by golf sessions, strip clubs and old plain bribery.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Or.. you use "lossy" encryption.
The quickest link I could find there was this one [derkeiler.com].
That fails "best for the consumer", because now I'm getting a degraded product -- and yet, once we know it's being done, it's usually possible to circumvent.
But if you can do non-lossy watermarking, or if it actually doesn't impact quality (for example, it is applied during the encoding process, and produces no lossier output than without it), I have no problem with it. Still possible to circumvent, but impossible to be sure that it's circumvented until you
Re:Little new? (Score:5, Funny)
That's like asking the Red Cross to build a torture device.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
A scalpel has good uses and it has sinister uses. Don't blame the tools for their misuse.
Re:Little new? (Score:4, Insightful)
Quoting:
"Someone needs to invest in an open source DRM mechanism. You have people like the BBC who have good intentions regarding the availability of content but the lack of any DRM at all means their hands are tied when it comes to Linux.
If some of the more talented OSS devs got off their high horse, they'd realise that if they were the first to create a true secure DRM format, they would be free to shape it in a way that is best for consumers whilst still being good for content producers. Being first would mean the chances of adoption were much greater."
And now the answer:
Holy shit! I cannot believe I actually read that.... We develop an OPEN platform, in all senses of the word OPEN. Indeed, the ONLY rule is that it cannot be closed. When someone finds a away around this, vast parts are re-licensed to prevent it.
The ONLY purpose of "DRM" is to close off the media. It does not make sense to use "OSS devs" and "create a true secure DRM format" in the same sentence.
Now, its NOT the kernel: the linux kernel remains under an older GPL -- the desktop being targeted is GNOME. Think about that for a millisecond. Now you should be laughing; if not, I'll let you in on the joke here -- the entire stack between the kernel and the X server is controlled by the GNU.
Now, you could go with KDE (QT) and Trolltech -- but I don't think you are going to get a (much) better reception.
Go ahead, try... it's purely political. (those "OSS devs" aren't getting off that high horse).
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's actually fairly different. A more accurate statement is that DRM is just another form of encryption - one where the decrypting algorithm/tool is a black box. As soon as you figure out how to implement a black box in open source, an open source DRM will be possible.
Also, the GP missed the point a bit as well. It's more than political, there's a logical barrier.
Re: (Score:2)
Only the people who love having slow media players use VLC. Sure, it works decently well as media player, but not for slower boxes. Mplayer is MUCH faster. I can play 720p xvid files back on a 300MHz G3 in Mplayer without trouble. VLC on the other hand completely craps itself. Heck, my main media playback computer is a P3-667 that uses mplayer and plays everything.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:amazing! (Score:5, Interesting)
i didn't even know that brits had computers yet. it's fantastic news.
Yep.. After inventing them, they kinda lost interest..
Parent